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NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.05.25 04:44:00 -
[61]
Thanks for sniping my completely non-trolling post Ivan.
But if KSUDruid can jest about BoB's rental aggreements, surely I can jest that the way things are currently going, it WILL be BoB OnlineÖ ¬2007 CCP Games, as they will control a majority of the space in 0.0.
I can only assume your thought my post was in reference to "other issues" between BoB and CCP, but frankly, in this case, you are dead WRONG.
Now, hopefully this post will remain up long enough for someone to be enlightened about your crappy moderation, and get a laugh out of it as they have all the other non-serious posts that KSUDruid has made that weren't sniped. -------------------------------------
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Landen Phoenix
EVE Empowerment League Navy Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.25 04:47:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Landen Phoenix on 25/05/2007 04:48:29
Originally by: DubanFP After the battle for I-N the coalition pretty much gave us the choice of A. Join them and fight against LV, or B. "Leave immensea/die". C. Sell them Mother ships
Fixed it for you :)
sorry server is down
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LadyScarlet
Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.25 05:03:00 -
[63]
Originally by: FGxHalsey Edited by: FGxHalsey on 24/05/2007 23:57:46 Edited by: FGxHalsey on 24/05/2007 23:43:54 FTZ is a good idea and good in implementation. Corporations get access to 0.0 space with no defense requirements put on them and access costs a fraction of what it does in other "rent" schemes. Other advantages include being free to create markets, mine, rat, etc with very few restrictions compared to offers other alliances give you and you can travel to any region within allied space.
Lets remember some of the disadvantages of siding with a tennant scheme like BoB's. BoB will shoot you on sight if you wander too far from your assigned systems and assigned path to empire. - WAY more expensive to the tune of billions per month for only a handful of systems. - BoB dictates that you defend the system yourselves or defend other systems should they need your assistance. So not only do you spend alot of money, but essentially you are paying for the privelege of defending someone else's space. - BoB may be able to garuantee sov in certain regions, but they can't garuantee security. They promise security but for the mostpart you are left to fend for yourself. - Remember BoB is the one who came up with the term 'pet' to describe their tennants. I don't know about you, but there are alot of intelligent and cool people in every alliance and for one group to call their own allies, "pets" just sits wrong. People like RISE and specifically sturmgrenadier, whom I've known since planetside days... and FIX, a very respectable alliance who fought BoB and 5 other alliances at the same time, and many other smaller groups who are great players Why in the world would such good groups put up with their own ally calling them a pet, let alone pay them for it? Why would they, good pvp players, pay money to play a game that involves them grinding to pay someone else in the game for the privilege of being dealt with from a standpoint of arrogance?
So to answer your question, in 0.0 there are no garuantees of security wherever you go. Goonswarm didn't promise complete safety to the FTZ guys, just relative safety and a strong effort to fight off attackers. These promises are being fulfilled.
I will not try to argue with some one who is clearly not in the know of many things espcialy of how BOB is ran but i would like to make one thing clear the word "pet" has been use for a very long time by many people the most famouse of them all StiZum Hilidii Posted - 2005.11.13 06:48:00 - [69] dont need the income. we stock piled those minerals and when ever we need cash we just say a little thank you to our pets and smile.( yes you can do a eve serch the name and pets and find it )
Take notice of the date this is how many years back ? since then many people have use the word "pet" to try to degrade a tenant i wonder how your tenants feel every time you try to put words in BOB mouth.... Let alone lie about it ( bad politicians for the lose )
we come with references can you say the same ?
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IntegralHellsing
Gallente The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen
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Posted - 2007.05.25 08:01:00 -
[64]
Edited by: IntegralHellsing on 25/05/2007 08:00:29 Just to point out that the term 'pet' is wrong and should not be used.
Alliance A approaches Alliance B for a business deal that is renting space from alliance B for whatever the purpose is. alliance B forges a deal with alliance A to rent A space in return to receive some money or menpower.
This is simply a relationship between Patronus and Clientes.
For the example of Patronus (let's say BoB), it rents out space in return for money, mineral or pvp force. The client (Clientes) will forge a deal with the patronus in several forms.
1. Giving Minerals 2. Giving ISK 3. Protection of designated area 4. PvP Force 5. Industry 6. Other forms that I do not know about.
The deal marks the beginning of the relationship between 'BoB' and other alliance/corp so the supposed 'pet' corp/alliance should not be called 'pets' but instead 'client' or 'clientes' to be exact.
Either way if you choose to use the term 'pet' it's your choice. But I prefer the term 'Clientes' as I am a legitimate businessman (considering my avatar, it's probably businesswoman but what the heck) of EVE. --------------------------------------
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Thomas Epsilon
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.25 08:03:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Thomas Epsilon on 25/05/2007 08:04:16 *CFS flashbacks*
Still the ultimate challenge, making 0.0 space approximate high sec. I hope someday a new alliance rises again with these ideals :)
Kind regards, Thomas Epsilon |
fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.25 08:24:00 -
[66]
Originally by: John Cerberux Edited by: John Cerberux on 25/05/2007 04:25:33
Originally by: KSUDruid
Awww, turn that frown upside down friend! You sound like you need to get out of that stinky old station you're in now, and try out some of the BoB Leasing ProgramsÖ great deals! This month we are offering a special to former pilot of other New Eden rentals. Just provide proof of previous residency, and your application is approved, automatically! You can't be turned Down! Apply Today!
I mine, rat, and kill tech 2 fitted people just fine in BoB space without paying any rent thank you. Also, did you set up the phone alerts that a BoB circle j erk was going to take place? Its pretty funny how you guys make BoB out to be the salvation of mankind here in eve. You need a new propaganda template if you ask me.
Soemthing which is amusing to see actually if the difference in how the alliance and coalition talk on the forums.
Alliance - \o/ , we fight together, we die together
Coalition - Iron is uber and killed the most. No, d2 are the powerhouse, we killed all in fountain ,flex flex. Hang about, rzrs were reigning supreme in delve, we luv the nanos and we is uber. Ra is loving the plex but does actually fight <3 . Goons go haw haw death to bob, we kills you to death, bzzz bzzz we so leet and swarmz your hacs with ibis's, haw haw. Insert random i am uber chest beating from ganker corp making no impact on the war at all but chest beating because they think they are uber coz of there statz
Long story short, the unity you lot slag us off about is what will win the war and something your side has been utterly incapable of.
BoB vs the coalition of family values |
Obijameskenobi
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation
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Posted - 2007.05.25 08:38:00 -
[67]
Is anyone keeping score on this?
....oh wait, just look at the maps and you realise who is winning..
Cheers
Obi
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Solasta Kovacs
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.25 08:47:00 -
[68]
This thread makes me feel all warm and cuddly.
Its pleasing and reassuring to see that BOB's allies see the relationship in the same manner as I do. i.e. one of mutual respect and cooperation.
I'm proud to be part of BOB- and I'm proud when I see our allies growing stronger and fending, very effectively, for themselves and contributing massively to the war effort as a result of the allegiance and cooperation.
---------------------- The Tumaril: "Pies are different" |
franny
Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.25 09:10:00 -
[69]
my only issue with PKKP's rental from BoB was we didn't get exotic dancers included in the station hangers(offices)
we had the rental with BoB, and we had talked to the north about renting from them(ie we had shopped around) speaking as a director and former CEO of PKKP, we did not get screwed, we were mostly happy with the deal(1 refinery in Q made me a sad panda)
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Ghost Reaper
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.25 10:04:00 -
[70]
Originally by: FGxHalsey
- BoB will shoot you on sight if you wander too far from your assigned systems and assigned path to empire.
dame, really? i gota find some of these borders they cant pass.....now were did i put my tinfoil map....
Gr
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Vando
Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.25 11:07:00 -
[71]
The OP is very much BoB-aligned at heart (hi Sem ), and is in reality gently trolling Goons here. The FTZ agreement covers 'Goon space', and as we all know territory in Eve is never permanent. Omist was located near enough to the front line, and far enough from Goon strongholds for it to be plain that it was never going to get a fully fledged defence.
There is a war on gentlemen. You can't expect to farm the land whilst armies roll across it. If Goons weren't your idea of good landlords... well why didn't you fight them for their land?
I wonder what you will say if in future BoB abandon Omist for whatever reason. Will you make a similar post wondering what happened to the fabled BoB renter security? --
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Velios
M. Corp M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.05.25 11:17:00 -
[72]
Omist was one of LV's greatest achievements looking back. We offered residents a fair deal and gave them peace and room to breath for over year. It was LV that built the outposts there for it's tenants and it's good to see that goon have since done nothing to improve on that territory since they captured it.
Cheers to all the people that lived in Omist when LV were the landlords and cheers also to the guys within LV that put in so much work in that region. Aside from BoB's established control of it's surrounding regions, there was little to match the stability available in Omist during LV's time in power.
Good memories.
M.Corp Capital Blueprint Facility |
Irongut
M'8'S Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2007.05.25 11:35:00 -
[73]
Originally by: FGxHalsey
Lets remember some of the disadvantages of siding with a tennant scheme like BoB's.
Let's pick apart your propaganda and FUD...
Originally by: FGxHalsey
- BoB will shoot you on sight if you wander too far from your assigned systems and assigned path to empire.
Wrong. As a friend of BoB I can wander through their space wherever I like. I'm blue to them, they're blue to me and so are all their other friends and tenants. From what I hear things are not the same in the FTZ and you turn a blind eye to your tenants killing each other.
Originally by: FGxHalsey
- WAY more expensive to the tune of billions per month for only a handful of systems.
Actually the FTZ is 100% more expensive than living in BoB space for me. As a friend I pay BoB nothing and have a whole region to play in and I'm not the only one. I can't comment on tenant costs for those that do pay though.
Originally by: FGxHalsey
- BoB dictates that you defend the system yourselves or defend other systems should they need your assistance. So not only do you spend alot of money, but essentially you are paying for the privelege of defending someone else's space.
You can look on it as defending someone else's space but if they lose that space then so do I so really it's defending my own home. And, if a capital fleet or a large blob are required Uncle BoB is always ready to lend a hand. Plus pvp is why I play this game and joining a BoB fleet is always a good learning experience. So... I'm defending my home, having fun AND learning to be a better pvper sounds like a win-win situation to me.
Originally by: FGxHalsey
- BoB may be able to garuantee sov in certain regions, but they can't garuantee security. They promise security but for the most part you are left to fend for yourself.
And you can guarantee security? No one can guarantee security, not even CONCORD in 1.0! Personally I think between BoB and their allies we do a pretty good job at securing the space we live in.
Originally by: FGxHalsey
- Remember BoB is the one who came up with the term 'pet' to describe their tennants. I don't know about you, but there are alot of intelligent and cool people in every alliance and for one group to call their own allies, "pets" just sits wrong. People like RISE and specifically sturmgrenadier, whom I've known since planetside days... and FIX, a very respectable alliance who fought BoB and 5 other alliances at the same time, and many other smaller groups who are great players Why in the world would such good groups put up with their own ally calling them a pet, let alone pay them for it? Why would they, good pvp players, pay money to play a game that involves them grinding to pay someone else in the game for the privilege of being dealt with from a standpoint of arrogance?
Ah the pets thing. Personally the only people I have seen use this term are from the non-BoB side. I've never been treated with arrogance by anyone from BoB, in fact quite the opposite. As I see it we respect them and they respect us. I guess the rule that FTZ renters must immediately leave the system if a goon tells them too is not arrogance, right?
Originally by: FGxHalsey
So to answer your question, in 0.0 there are no garuantees of security wherever you go. Goonswarm didn't promise complete safety to the FTZ guys, just relative safety and a strong effort to fight off attackers. These promises are being fulfilled.
I've been an ally of BoB for about 18 months. In that time I've had lots of pew pew, made lots of isk and had a lot of fun. At no point did I feel like the region I lived in was about to be lost. In comparison Omist FTZ has been around for about 2 months and is as good as lost. Now which sounds like the better deal?
My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.
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Yazoul Samaiel
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.25 11:45:00 -
[74]
Originally by: John Cerberux
I mine, rat, and kill tech 2 fitted people just fine in BoB space without paying any rent thank you. Also, did you set up the phone alerts that a BoB circle j erk was going to take place? Its pretty funny how you guys make BoB out to be the salvation of mankind here in eve. You need a new propaganda template if you ask me.
And with what char you do that exactly sicne i dotn see a single entry on our kbs showing u even killing a shuttle ?
I might be wrong and you are just here to npc and you mistake BR npcs for bob ships which would explain the lack of kms
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Tomas Ysidro
Caldari Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.25 11:46:00 -
[75]
We're all BoB alts anyways
~Resipsa Loquitor
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Aeleva
Caldari Hegemonic Core
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Posted - 2007.05.25 14:08:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Vando The OP is very much BoB-aligned at heart (hi Sem ), and is in reality gently trolling Goons here. The FTZ agreement covers 'Goon space', and as we all know territory in Eve is never permanent. Omist was located near enough to the front line, and far enough from Goon strongholds for it to be plain that it was never going to get a fully fledged defence.
There is a war on gentlemen. You can't expect to farm the land whilst armies roll across it. If Goons weren't your idea of good landlords... well why didn't you fight them for their land?
I wonder what you will say if in future BoB abandon Omist for whatever reason. Will you make a similar post wondering what happened to the fabled BoB renter security?
If bob were to just abandon a region with no defence then yes, i would post something similar. Okay so a tiny ammount of troll came though, but i did put a real effort into being moderatly impartial. However at one point i HATED bob. However having experianced both sides of this, i have just begun to respect them more and more. <3
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Genghis Kahn
Evolution
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Posted - 2007.05.25 14:10:00 -
[77]
Nice FTZ, we're taking it.
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Project Chick
Cash Money Millionaires
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Posted - 2007.05.25 14:15:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Ghost Reaper dame, really? i gota find some of these borders they cant pass.....now were did i put my tinfoil map....
Gr
Apparently, one of said borders lies just outside of the front cover of Merriam-Webster. |
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.05.25 14:36:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Seleene on 25/05/2007 14:35:42
MC Testimonial:
After my most recent negotiation session with Dianabolic I was able to identify my deepest emotional and psychological blocks. It allowed me to deal with many of the other alliances assisting us in the North without any fear at all. I felt emotionally lighter and left with tools to continue to fight my demons.
When dealing with BoB, we have always felt comfortable and safe. When we were presented with a contract option to take the war to the enemy in the North we understood what was being presented and felt a positive, intense and loving healing energy. I look forward to continuing my journey of fearlessness with Dianabolic upon our contract completion. -
Vid - 'P-2 Defense' |
Elmicker
Unscoped Myriad Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.25 14:47:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Velios Cheers to all the people that lived in Omist when LV were the landlords and cheers also to the guys within LV that put in so much work in that region. Aside from BoB's established control of it's surrounding regions, there was little to match the stability available in Omist during LV's time in power.
Good memories.
Absolutely. The biggest danger in Omist was Stybbe and his army of alts. There was an organised defense and intelligence hierarchy, and all tenants knew the region was theirs in all but name (and er... rent). Omist formed many a fledgling alliance, and i can proudly thank LV for the opportunities they gave to the young Myriad in Omist. Perhaps the best feature about Omist was the fact the tenants came first. We had primary access to the complexes, we could ask LV members to leave the belts if they were ratting, and there was a cap on the number of tenants in Omist at any one time. Much better than the FTZ, which just seems to be a scramble to get to the belts before the goonies come and take the spawn off you.
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Arenis Xemdal
Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.25 15:32:00 -
[81]
FGxHalsey, being the only GoonSwarm post in this thread, I'm going to assume you try to speak with some authority. It would make me feel very silly to debunk some random peon's ramblings.
Standings are standings, and they tell you nothing about the terms we have with our guest.
Anyone can get access to BoB space for 300mil, to deploy POS, mine, rat, run plexes. For the most part you're considered a resident of one region, with travel, dock, market and clone rights anywhere else. If you want to relocate for whatever reason, thats allowed, but you go as a corp.
Your FTZ (Feudal Trade Zone, amirite?) charges 10mil/month per member and doesn't allow you to deploy large POS or run plexes. At above 120 members, you start paying more to GoonSwarm. This is prohibitive to the growth of any corporation, as you start paying for every alt and inactive character you have.
And newsflash, there isn't a whole lot of trade going on in your zone. If you mean dumping a bunch of stuff on the market and hoping someone would buy it at absurd prices, well, you can do that in BoB space too. You can't however trademark capitalism itself. I'm sorry, too many people would be spinning in their graves if you could.
And thats just for guest corps. Or is that pets? I can't remember which derogatory term we're supposed to be using this week! Maybe it was pubbie.. I can't remember..
For bigger entities, they have the option of renting exclusive rights to a constellation with the stations in it. Clearly, the standings don't show these intricacies and allow anyone to simply make stuff up. Unlike guest corps, who have no contractual obligations as far as military and involvement in wars goes.. they're only required to maintain the POS in their station systems. Thats it.
And then theres the autonomous groups like FIX, Xelas, FATAL and Dark Rising. They don't pay, and therefore can't be discussed in any comparisons between BoB's guest corp program and the FTZ.
PS: TWD used to be in Hegemonic Core
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Icy Z
Superstars from Outer Space
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Posted - 2007.05.25 15:38:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Metal Dude Why would anyone rent space from anyone other then BoB?
Because BoB just aint sexy
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Cassius Hawkeye
Minmatar UK Corp FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.25 15:53:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Cassius Hawkeye on 25/05/2007 15:56:34
Originally by: Elmicker
Originally by: Velios Cheers to all the people that lived in Omist when LV were the landlords and cheers also to the guys within LV that put in so much work in that region. Aside from BoB's established control of it's surrounding regions, there was little to match the stability available in Omist during LV's time in power.
Good memories.
Absolutely. The biggest danger in Omist was Stybbe and his army of alts. There was an organised defense and intelligence hierarchy, and all tenants knew the region was theirs in all but name (and er... rent). Omist formed many a fledgling alliance, and i can proudly thank LV for the opportunities they gave to the young Myriad in Omist. Perhaps the best feature about Omist was the fact the tenants came first. We had primary access to the complexes, we could ask LV members to leave the belts if they were ratting, and there was a cap on the number of tenants in Omist at any one time. Much better than the FTZ, which just seems to be a scramble to get to the belts before the goonies come and take the spawn off you.
/Double Signed.
From my limited experience, the Omist residents were a partner with LV for a long time. They were phenominal at defending themselves against pirates and raiders, and though LV wasn't perfect by any means, we never had much to worry about deep in Omist. One stand out memory, was seeing a guy getting shot down in LV alliance chat when he said "shall we run the 8/10 complex in Omist?". Loads of LV alliance members immediatly responded - it's for Omist resident's only.
Aside from isolated incidents the relationship was a strong one, and the industrial backbone that Omist provided was certainly one of the shining beacons that LV had, alongside putting up our outposts, and deploying our Titan/s
Indeed Vel. Good times. I'm very proud to have been part of LV *tear to my eye*
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omgTHE KEY
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2007.05.25 16:27:00 -
[84]
Edited by: omgTHE KEY on 25/05/2007 16:26:06 omitted
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Ling Xiao
Prism Project Technologies
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Posted - 2007.05.25 16:51:00 -
[85]
Wow this is like, the most useful thread on this forum for a long time. I hope some new corps get an insight into how to get their first experience of 0.0 life. __________ If you think the game is rigged, why are you still playing? |
Togakure
Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.05.25 17:05:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Ling Xiao Wow this is like, the most useful thread on this forum for a long time. I hope some new corps get an insight into how to get their first experience of 0.0 life.
Are you saying 0.0 life is about sarcasm, jokes, and trolling?
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KSUDruid
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.25 17:39:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Togakure Are you saying 0.0 life is about sarcasm, jokes, and trolling?
Yup, I'd say that about sums it up :)
-Druid
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL11) Sabre |
Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.05.25 18:24:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 25/05/2007 18:23:28 @Bob members here : please don't talk of the FTZ, you don't know what it is. -----
History is made by whinners
Originally by: DB Preacher (...) Ignore what the coalition muppets are saying on their forums (...)
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Dashhammer II
Amarr O RLY corp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.05.25 18:56:00 -
[89]
Some one comes in, takes a region, rents it out. Previous owners return and retake it. Then the renters ask "What happened?"
Ummm... you were sold something that did not belong to the seller. Owners are back and they are not going to honor the contracts of their enemies. Is that clear enough for ya?
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Dianabolic
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.25 19:07:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 25/05/2007 18:23:28 @Bob members here : please don't talk of the FTZ, you don't know what it is.
@TCF members in this thread, please don't talk of owning or renting space, you don't know how. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums |
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