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Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 02:58:00 - [1] Almost everyone (except the isk farmers) wants to see some sort of nerf for cloaks. I don't think making it possible to scan cloaked ships is the right solution. Instead it should be made so that they can't just stay cloaked forever. The idea: - Cloaking devices now require fuel to operate. (I suggest heavy water.) - Activation of the cloaking device uses around 80 - 100 fuel. - After activation the cloak uses 1 fuel per minute. - This only applies to the prototype and improved cloaks. The specialized covops cloak should not be changed. This would mean your average battleship might be able to cloak around 8 times before running out of fuel. If he cloaked only once, he could stay cloaked for around 10 hours. Fuel costs could be adjusted for smaller ships, but I think it would be easier to just add small, medium, large, and x-large cloaks to the game. (Quickly written while trying to probe a raven.) --- Help reduce lag in eve by supporting the Titans. Screenshots
Megadon Caldari Deathshead Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.25 03:57:00 - [2] I will summon the waaaaaambulance for you! I'm not an isk farmer and I don't want it nerfed. I think someone teased you in local too much and you got upset you couldnt find them and came here.
Empero Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 04:03:00 - [3] Edited by: Empero on 25/05/2007 04:03:07 Your nerf is too complicated. Easiest way would be that: (Cyno gen. like) Activation timer i.e. 300 seconds, than 60sec penalty till you can turn it on again. Or just remove local ;-) Edit: typos --
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.25 04:29:00 - [4] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 25/05/2007 04:32:38 Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 25/05/2007 04:27:56 NO NO NO Let me expand a bit-after all-you are BoB and should know better. You are a covops/recon pilot trying to set up a drop for your wingmen. You bust the safe spot (Raven in this case) and are approaching and maneuvering to set the drop. Suddenly the kitchen timer dings when you are 25km off target--"Oh **....I need to go get a barrel of water and chuck it into my cloak...oh crap...decloaked". What if this had happened while your covops pilot was bagging "Steve"??? Enough already "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the ** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Lore Isander Caldari The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.25 04:29:00 - [5] /signed
xenodia Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.05.25 04:52:00 - [6] Originally by: Shinigami Almost everyone (except the isk farmers) wants to see some sort of nerf for cloaks. I don't think making it possible to scan cloaked ships is the right solution. Instead it should be made so that they can't just stay cloaked forever. The idea: - Cloaking devices now require fuel to operate. (I suggest heavy water.) - Activation of the cloaking device uses around 80 - 100 fuel. - After activation the cloak uses 1 fuel per minute. - This only applies to the prototype and improved cloaks. The specialized covops cloak should not be changed. This would mean your average battleship might be able to cloak around 8 times before running out of fuel. If he cloaked only once, he could stay cloaked for around 10 hours. Fuel costs could be adjusted for smaller ships, but I think it would be easier to just add small, medium, large, and x-large cloaks to the game. (Quickly written while trying to probe a raven.) Better than most of the cloak nerf ideas out there. As long as cov ops and force recons had a bonus to negate fuel use id be fine with it.
Taran Summers The Merovingians	Posted - 2007.05.25 05:04:00 - [7] Ooooh ooooh. If we have to fuel our cloaks. I think we should get a little buff for it. Lets say we can use strontium to allow us to FIRE WHILE CLOAKED. WOOOOOT. Buff for a nerf. I think thats fair.
E Vile Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.25 05:11:00 - [8] Nerf Nerfing crybabies! Nerf this nerf that....gimmie some cheese with that whine "The key to immortality is to first live a life worth remembering." Shohadaku New York Metal
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.25 06:04:00 - [9] Sure, you can nerf cloaks when we get all those dedicated ships and cloaks for things OTHER than harrassing 0.0 alliances who should know better. For example: Where is my dedicated exploration vessels that would get a bonus to Astrometrics, Hacking and Archeology. And would have to have a cloak to survive extended time in deep space since its offensive power is non-existant. Right now if you plan on doing any exploration with a non-cloaked ship you are a sitting duck to anyone wandering through.... I say nerf local so it doesn't show cloaked ships. That way they won't bother you. <-----------> Factional Warfare: The LowSec wars which never happened.
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 07:46:00 - [10] Originally by: RuleoftheBone Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 25/05/2007 04:36:55 Did you get the Raven?? No I landed 10km away from him when the huge lag spike hit. He logged out and I spent 5 minutes trying to deactivate my cloak to launch a probe. --- Help reduce lag in eve by supporting the Titans. Screenshots
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 07:49:00 - [11] Originally by: Taran Summers Ooooh ooooh. If we have to fuel our cloaks. I think we should get a little buff for it. Lets say we can use strontium to allow us to FIRE WHILE CLOAKED. WOOOOOT. Buff for a nerf. I think thats fair. I wouldn't be against that as long as there was a "distortion" in the cloak. This would allow the other player to spot the cloaked ship (visually) and move in close enough to decloak it. --- Help reduce lag in eve by supporting the Titans. Screenshots
Brutus Proqqus	Posted - 2007.05.25 07:49:00 - [12] i dont support these nerf threads but i do wanna make a suggestion. The only right way to nerf the cloak if it even if it needed a nerf in the first place is: Make it like with the warfare link stuff. Give it insane CPU requirements and give covops ships and stealth bombers and other ships that are really build for the cloak a -99% in CPU Needs for Cloaks. Like the battlecruisers have with the warfare links.
justcheckingthemarket	Posted - 2007.05.25 07:52:00 - [13] i say nerf anoying pussies that aint got nothing better to do than whine!
Cold Senthen	Posted - 2007.05.25 07:54:00 - [14] Edited by: Cold Senthen on 25/05/2007 07:53:50 Ok you have nice ideas to change something! But only change the prototype cloak! Cause Recon ships are a bit like Stealth Bombers. And i dont like the fuel thing. Coverts (or Recons) have no cargo - probes AND fuel? No... :)
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 07:59:00 - [15] Originally by: Empero Edited by: Empero on 25/05/2007 04:03:07 Your nerf is too complicated. Easiest way would be that: (Cyno gen. like) Activation timer i.e. 300 seconds, than 60sec penalty till you can turn it on again. Or just remove local ;-) Edit: typos I wouldn't be against removing local, but your other suggestion does not help the cloaking problem very much. In fact it makes the cloaks completely worthless in pvp. The idea is to limit their ability to live in hostile space, but not to nerf it's use for other activities. Right now you can have cloaking ravens safely ratting 2 jumps from your base. There is absolutely nothing you can do because they are able to safe spot and cloak before you can even activate your warp drive. --- Help reduce lag in eve by supporting the Titans. Screenshots
Billy Hardcore	Posted - 2007.05.25 08:05:00 - [16] Edited by: Billy Hardcore on 25/05/2007 08:04:56 I have no solution to this, allthough I do agree that cloaks in their current form are overpowered. Especially a prototype cloak hardly gimps your ability to PvE, with only a 30 cpu requirment, while making you impossible to kill for other players. There's tons of corpless ISK farmers everywhere in 0.0 sovereign space. These people cannot be forcefully removed from these systems simply because they just save and cloak up the moment anyone enters local. 0.0 is about the tradeoff between risk and reward. But with the current cloak spamming there's no risk. It's all reward. The opposite happened when the Privateers brought 0.0 to empire; no-one was safe. I really believe that this is the other way around, and that this cannot be ignored.
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 08:11:00 - [17] Edited by: Shinigami on 25/05/2007 08:09:44 Originally by: Billy Hardcore Edited by: Billy Hardcore on 25/05/2007 08:04:56 I have no solution to this, allthough I do agree that cloaks in their current form are overpowered. Especially a prototype cloak hardly gimps your ability to PvE, with only a 30 cpu requirment, while making you impossible to kill for other players. There's tons of corpless ISK farmers everywhere in 0.0 sovereign space. These people cannot be forcefully removed from these systems simply because they just save and cloak up the moment anyone enters local. That's right, but with my idea they would be forced to refuel after several cloaks. This would mean travel or bringing in fuel with another ship. Either way they would at least become vulnerable at some point in time. --- Help reduce lag in eve by supporting the Titans. Screenshots
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.25 08:18:00 - [18] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 25/05/2007 08:17:29 Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: RuleoftheBone Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 25/05/2007 04:36:55 Did you get the Raven?? No I landed 10km away from him when the huge lag spike hit. He logged out and I spent 5 minutes trying to deactivate my cloak to launch a probe. Ravens are like Dorito's.....they always make more...and I like mine wet, raw, and wrigggglings . Seriously though-you do get my point I presume regarding "Steve"? "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Lorn Yeager Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.25 08:22:00 - [19] Everytime I have hunted isk-farmers, ninja ratters and family... they have just logged off. Nerf THAT before you nerf the cloak. Cloak is not a problem. He cant hurt you. He cant steal your epeen. He can only look at you.
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 08:27:00 - [20] Originally by: Lorn Yeager Everytime I have hunted isk-farmers, ninja ratters and family... they have just logged off. Nerf THAT before you nerf the cloak. Cloak is not a problem. He cant hurt you. He cant steal your epeen. He can only look at you. Ya but he has to login again at some point. When he does that's another 100 fuel he has to spend. Alternatively you could just make the aggression timer for logging off count for npcs too. --- Help reduce lag in eve by supporting the Titans. Screenshots
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 08:28:00 - [21] Originally by: RuleoftheBone Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 25/05/2007 08:17:29 Seriously though-you do get my point I presume regarding "Steve"? That's why I said that the Covert Ops cloak should not be changed. --- Help reduce lag in eve by supporting the Titans. Screenshots
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.25 09:01:00 - [22] Looks like a perfect idea to me. Doesn't nerf covops, recons (stealth bombers should be included too), stops continual use of cloaks by ships that aren't really designed to use them. Up till now i've just ignored the macro ratters that have a program to warp off and cloak as soon as somebody enters local, however this is a nice and effective nerf to them and nobody else. sgb
Shirow Miyazaki Amarr I.Z.U Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.25 09:10:00 - [23] ....OR, instead of whinging about cloaks and how awful they are, how about have ALL cloaks with a huge cpu fitting, and give ships that are meant to use them a CPU reduction bonus. This way we get rid of people afk-ing in battleships but keep speciality cloaked ships as they are, instead of nerfing them for people who have blatantly never been near a cloak or a ship meant to use them.
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 09:15:00 - [24] Originally by: Shirow Miyazaki ....OR, instead of whinging about cloaks and how awful they are, how about have ALL cloaks with a huge cpu fitting, and give ships that are meant to use them a CPU reduction bonus. This way we get rid of people afk-ing in battleships but keep speciality cloaked ships as they are, instead of nerfing them for people who have blatantly never been near a cloak or a ship meant to use them. You obviously didn't read my entire post. --- Help reduce lag in eve by supporting the Titans. Screenshots
Jenesti	Posted - 2007.05.25 10:20:00 - [25] Why not delete all modules and ships expekt one of them so everyone have the same fitting and ship.. ? THATS BALANCING !
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.25 10:34:00 - [26] Originally by: Jenesti Why not delete all modules and ships expekt one of them so everyone have the same fitting and ship.. ? THATS BALANCING ! I was just quoting the following post in the titan thread and thought I would bring it to your attention: Originally by: CCP Abathur Thank you for a well written and detailed post. Such efforts are noticed and appreciated by the Dev Team. We're well aware of the importance of many of the issues you describe and they are under heavy discussion almost daily as Kali 2 gets closer and closer. Threads such as this one are a great help in identifying specific issues that need more of our attention. Rest assured, we are paying attention. There are always problems in a constantly-evolving game such as eve. You are fairly obviously unaware of the need for constant balancing, however like it or not, it is present. Threads such as this one are an excellent way for people to present well-thought out ideas (or not) to the community at large, giving the devs the ability to peruse them at their leisure. Please refrain from posting idiotic comments in such threads in future. sgb
Marcus Alkhaar Conisor Excavations Syndicate Antagonistic Assembly	Posted - 2007.05.25 10:34:00 - [27] Off-topic: stop derailing the thread, thank you. try to be even remotely constructive if you want to post On-topic: nice Idea, good sir Death God . It wouldnt nerf haulers using cloaks either. with an agression from belt rats lasting 1-2 minutes it would totaly wipe out those macro-ravens ratting 0.0 systems. ------------------ Might Aswell Train Another Race Idiot
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.25 10:37:00 - [28] Originally by: Marcus Alkhaar Off-topic: stop derailing the thread, thank you. try to be even remotely constructive if you want to post On-topic: nice Idea, good sir Death God . It wouldnt nerf haulers using cloaks either. with an agression from belt rats lasting 1-2 minutes it would totaly wipe out those macro-ravens ratting 0.0 systems. No such thing as agro from belt rats, however it would severely hurt macro-ravens as they would be unable to go afk for longer periods of time without knowing if they had enough fuel for their cloaks. sgb
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 11:17:00 - [29] Edited by: fire 59 on 25/05/2007 11:16:34 Edit - Bah, reading comprehension for the win BoB vs the coalition of family values
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.25 11:20:00 - [30] Heikki the whole problem of afk macro-ratters is that they are, well, afk. If they log off every time somebody comes into system they will not be able to carry on ratting easily, wheras those people actually paying attention to their computers will. Have I missed something? sgb
Tempest Kane Amarr Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 11:32:00 - [31] I can not agree with the OP enough, coverts and recons are not the problem, they do exacly what their supposed to do. But battleships cloaking to avoid combat in 0.0 while isk farming is beyond a joke, it takes all the risk factor out of it. I like the heavy water idea, however i would be just as happy to see the removal of the ability for anything above a cruiser size to fit a cloak, including carriers and titans, logically they should be too big for a cloak generator to successfully cover in any case, and these ship types should have a lable on them when you buy them saying, " if you dont have the balls to fly it, dont bother ". As for the arguments saying if we nerf cloaks people will just cntrl+q when local goes up, isnt their supposed to be agro timers ? probes work. But to be honest, i strongly think the amount of scrambling npc's per spawn should be increased, i just dont think they should scramble unless you engage them. So what im saying is, if you make the choice to engage a set of NPC's you should have to sit their and take the full force of them without the option to run away, its a personal choice you make. This would mean the option to simply run away when local goes up is not their anymore. Win win. While were on the topic CCP, people can still log off in bubbles, people can still cloak and log, and while scrambled in a belt people are still logging off and warping after 40secs-1min, i think you need to take a serious look at how a coward is distinguished from a genuine CTD.
Empero Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 11:38:00 - [32] Edited by: Empero on 25/05/2007 11:46:02 Edited by: Empero on 25/05/2007 11:43:02 Originally by: Shinigami I wouldn't be against removing local, but your other suggestion does not help the cloaking problem very much. In fact it makes the cloaks completely worthless in pvp. The idea is to limit their ability to live in hostile space, but not to nerf it's use for other activities. Right now you can have cloaking ravens safely ratting 2 jumps from your base. There is absolutely nothing you can do because they are able to safe spot and cloak before you can even activate your warp drive. You dont need to tell me about cloaked ravens on safespots. I see every day more than 20 of them. I really would like to nerf cloaks, but i still prefer to remove the local instead of nerfing modules. My idea about the 300 seconds timer would give you more than enough time to probe him down in 60 seconds while he cant activate the module again. Anyway, i like your idea too ;) @Tempest Kane More scrambling NPC's sounds good to me as long as battleships/cruiser scrambling and not only frig size ships which pop in seconds. --
Damned Force	Posted - 2007.05.25 11:47:00 - [33] Edited by: Damned Force on 25/05/2007 11:46:42 So the prob that the ratting raven can go away and hide? The brave man attacking not pvp fitted ships, i hope at least in a big gang :) What would be the next? Block stargets if u arrive in a system so others cant jump out? or better if u arrive to the system all enemy ships should automatically blow and than some system drones collect for u the loot? U should go to gate, make up a bubble and wait if the enemy warp there. work a bit for your fun and money
Empero Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 11:53:00 - [34] Originally by: Damned Force Edited by: Damned Force on 25/05/2007 11:46:42 So the prob that the ratting raven can go away and hide? The brave man attacking not pvp fitted ships, i hope at least in a big gang :) What would be the next? Block stargets if u arrive in a system so others cant jump out? or better if u arrive to the system all enemy ships should automatically blow and than some system drones collect for u the loot? U should go to gate, make up a bubble and wait if the enemy warp there. work a bit for your fun and money You have obviously no clue what you are talking about. Thanks for the pass through. Troll somewhere else or post again and think twice about it. --
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.25 11:55:00 - [35] Originally by: Damned Force Edited by: Damned Force on 25/05/2007 11:46:42 So the prob that the ratting raven can go away and hide? The brave man attacking not pvp fitted ships, i hope at least in a big gang :) What would be the next? Block stargets if u arrive in a system so others cant jump out? or better if u arrive to the system all enemy ships should automatically blow and than some system drones collect for u the loot? U should go to gate, make up a bubble and wait if the enemy warp there. work a bit for your fun and money The dude above pretty much covered it, however I would just like to point you to the OP and it's stated purpose of stopping macro-ratters but allowing others to continue fairly unchanged. Does this mean you are a macro-ratter? sgb
Damned Force	Posted - 2007.05.25 12:03:00 - [36] Edited by: Damned Force on 25/05/2007 12:04:25 I know well what about im writing. The prob is that for pvp u need isk, and because not everyne got t2 BPO's from... so need to rat or mine or do something for profit, from they can buy the pvp fittings. I just not realize what your problem is. if i jump in the system and have luck with a neutral who dont pay attention for local i can easy kill him. if not and he can ru to SS he is alredy gone. U want to nerf cloak because so they can hide. ok Nerf cloak. and what u do if he just log off at the moment as u arrive or have 3 SS and warp between tham. U would cry nerf, max 1 ss/system?. There would always peoples hiding from roaming gangs. and u need live with. leave the system, drop bubbles on other side of the gates and wait. sooner or later he would try to go out. or just go and search for next possible target as everyne do. if they should nerf everything for the peoples crying, than on the end we would play multiplayer pac-man No im not a micro-ratter. never does and never would. i play for fun and not for isk. just have enough for the crying here- nerf theis, nerf thats because this dont work like i want. U should adotp the game rules or dont play. its so easy
Koto Rae Absolutely No Return	Posted - 2007.05.25 12:17:00 - [37] Originally by: Shinigami Edited by: Shinigami on 25/05/2007 11:36:58 Edited by: Shinigami on 25/05/2007 09:16:58 Almost everyone (except the isk farmers) wants to see some sort of nerf for cloaks. Wrong, you don't speak for everyone, just yourself. These nerf threads drive me crazy. The problem is NOT cloaks, it is ISK farmers. If players would not by ISK, these guys would move on to another game. If you get this nerf, and they adapt and use other tactics, will you ask for those to be nerfed also? The root problem needs to be addressed, not the game mechanics that are fine that are being misused by these scumbucket ISK farmers.
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.25 12:25:00 - [38] can't think of anything non-insulting to say to the above two posts so reserving this spot till i can... sgb
Damned Force	Posted - 2007.05.25 12:31:00 - [39] Originally by: smallgreenblur can't think of anything non-insulting to say to the above two posts so reserving this spot till i can... sgb Than what about to limit the redocking as nerf, so Triumv could not hide on npc stations if enemy arrives -JOKE-
Koto Rae Absolutely No Return	Posted - 2007.05.25 12:32:00 - [40] And what was it I said that was wrong, sgb? Cloaks work as intended. Some players mis-use them to gain isk to sell. Get rid of the players that mis-use them and leave the module alone. Why nerf things that work instead of fixing the root problem ? The root problem that I see here is ISK farmers, not cloaks.
Damned Force	Posted - 2007.05.25 12:36:00 - [41] Originally by: Koto Rae And what was it I said that was wrong, sgb? Cloaks work as intended. Some players mis-use them to gain isk to sell. Get rid of the players that mis-use them and leave the module alone. Why nerf things that work instead of fixing the root problem ? The root problem that I see here is ISK farmers, not cloaks. Agree just for the posters here never was the prob macro-ratters, just that there are players which can flee.
Shadoo North Eastern Swat	Posted - 2007.05.25 12:37:00 - [42] Edited by: Shadoo on 25/05/2007 12:37:00 Originally by: Damned Force U want to nerf cloak because so they can hide. ok Nerf cloak. and what u do if he just log off at the moment as u arrive or have 3 SS and warp between tham. U would cry nerf, max 1 ss/system?. I edited flamebait and dribel out that has no place in this thread or any other for that matter. Here's how I see it: If you are ratting in a system, see a new local and decide to bail to a safe spot and switch spots / warp to random moons @ 100 every 40 secs -- you're using your brain to avoid combat while accepting risk for doing this. If you fit one module, warp to anywhere and press it while going for lunch/dinner in total immunity -- you're avoiding risk. Same if you CTRL-Q right away. 0.0 ratting SHOULD be risky. You are getting rewarded for accepting this risk. It's what EVE is all about in my view, risk vs reward. There's something wrong with the game mechanics if one module used on a Battleship negates risk by a significant amount without hars penalties. Isn't this why warp core stabs got the bat? Shouldn't the same happen here with cloaking devices? Or do we need BE to go rampant with fitting Cloaking Devices on PVP ships and killing bunch of carebears... oh wait...
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.25 12:39:00 - [43] Edited by: smallgreenblur on 25/05/2007 12:38:31 There are two problems: 1) cloaks effectively render you invulnerable, as used by heikki extrememly effectively for most of a year. 2) macro ratters use cloaks to become invulnerable to other players while afk playing. This solution fixes both of these problems. The third problem is of course that people will pay real money for isk. If you can come up with a way to stop this then I think ccp will be very happy with you. sgb Edit: Koto was more annoyed at the other idiot than you, your argument is relevant.
Solasta Kovacs Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 13:02:00 - [44] How about a simple aggro timer for no cov ops cloaks. Ie- whether it was rats or players, you would need to wait, say, 4 minutes before activating a cloak on a non cov ops / recon type ship? Time enough for a good prober to get close, and still allows people travelling without aggressing anyone, or wanting to hide somewhere (for whatever reason) to do so. ---------------------- The Tumaril: "Pies are different"
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2007.05.25 13:03:00 - [45] Originally by: Shadoo Edited by: Shadoo on 25/05/2007 12:37:00 Originally by: Damned Force U want to nerf cloak because so they can hide. ok Nerf cloak. and what u do if he just log off at the moment as u arrive or have 3 SS and warp between tham. U would cry nerf, max 1 ss/system?. I edited flamebait and dribel out that has no place in this thread or any other for that matter. Here's how I see it: If you are ratting in a system, see a new local and decide to bail to a safe spot and switch spots / warp to random moons @ 100 every 40 secs -- you're using your brain to avoid combat while accepting risk for doing this. If you fit one module, warp to anywhere and press it while going for lunch/dinner in total immunity -- you're avoiding risk. Same if you CTRL-Q right away. 0.0 ratting SHOULD be risky. You are getting rewarded for accepting this risk. It's what EVE is all about in my view, risk vs reward. There's something wrong with the game mechanics if one module used on a Battleship negates risk by a significant amount without hars penalties. Isn't this why warp core stabs got the bat? Shouldn't the same happen here with cloaking devices? Or do we need BE to go rampant with fitting Cloaking Devices on PVP ships and killing bunch of carebears... oh wait... 0.0 ratting (for solo players) in non-perfect system is hardly REWARDing. It is dull and boring. You do not became a multimega billionare as a 0.0 ratter. Making it even more riskier(e.g no cloaks or logoff) would only make ratting profitable only in 40+ outpost systems. Warping around between SSes Can't see anything wrong with further nerfing cloaks and/or making ratting harder is a good solution, but making it too easy for ganksquads to gank NPCers would probably make 0.0 emptier.
Gozmoth Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.05.25 13:06:00 - [46] Originally by: Solasta Kovacs How about a simple aggro timer for no cov ops cloaks. Ie- whether it was rats or players, you would need to wait, say, 4 minutes before activating a cloak on a non cov ops / recon type ship? Time enough for a good prober to get close, and still allows people travelling without aggressing anyone, or wanting to hide somewhere (for whatever reason) to do so. Perfect !
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.25 13:15:00 - [47] Don't forget that with the new system changes it's going to be much harder to find a ratting ship without probing them out... sgb
Meditril	Posted - 2007.05.25 13:16:00 - [48] I think that cloaking is not overpowered in general, however some aspects are too powerful while other important aspects are totally underpowered. Therefore I like to opt for a balancing as already described here: Proposal for a totally renewed cloaking system
TimMc Phoenix Inc	Posted - 2007.05.25 13:20:00 - [49] Originally by: Gozmoth Originally by: Solasta Kovacs How about a simple aggro timer for no cov ops cloaks. Ie- whether it was rats or players, you would need to wait, say, 4 minutes before activating a cloak on a non cov ops / recon type ship? Time enough for a good prober to get close, and still allows people travelling without aggressing anyone, or wanting to hide somewhere (for whatever reason) to do so. Perfect ! Nah, this would just make escaping lost battles impossible against NPC's and players. Cloaking devices take a high power slot, so you are limiting your firepower a bit for the assurance that you can escape if needed. I think that the cloaks that aren't covert ops should only last, say, 1 minute with a few minute recycle time. Enough time to run to the gate and leave the system, but not get far enough to run out of large corperations space.
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.25 13:21:00 - [50] Edited by: smallgreenblur on 25/05/2007 13:19:47 Meditril: I prefer the OP's solution to yours by a factor of massive. Sorry :( sgb
Solasta Kovacs Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 13:45:00 - [51] Can't see how it would making escaping lost battles impossible. If you are locked, you cant cloak anyway- and if you are not, then you can warp and use safespots. A careful pilot can avoid detection from all but the most determined probers by moving from spot to spot if they are organised. At the moment though, its just too easy. Someone comes in system- warp / cloak / wait. ---------------------- The Tumaril: "Pies are different"
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.05.25 13:57:00 - [52] Edited by: madaluap on 25/05/2007 13:57:02 Originally by: Shinigami Edited by: Shinigami on 25/05/2007 11:36:58 Edited by: Shinigami on 25/05/2007 09:16:58 - This only applies to the prototype and improved cloaks. The specialized Covert Ops Cloaking Device II should not be changed. In other words the Covert Ops, Stealth Bombers, and Recons would stay the same. Did CCP change bombers, so that they can use covert ops cloaking device? Originally by: Tempest Kane While were on the topic CCP, people can still log off in bubbles, people can still cloak and log, and while scrambled in a belt people are still logging off and warping after 40secs-1min, i think you need to take a serious look at how a coward is distinguished from a genuine CTD. QFT _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Genrath	Posted - 2007.05.25 14:18:00 - [53] Give 15 min timer when agressing/getting agressed by rats, and make so probes can scan down cloaked ships if the probe is started in the right range/before the cloak got turned on. Basically, if they got probes you cant cloak, and if you cloak and they got a good precision probe on you (A use for those short/medium/long range probes), youre basically screwed as they will land straight on you. It doesnt make sence that youre chasing down say a raven... and it goes gone, so you tell nothing to your master. The probes should give a location of where the raven was last spotted. We dont need some silly nerf, just that balance is regained, atm cloaked NPCers got it too good. This would make probers better for pvp aswell. If you want to live.... warrrrrrrrrp for it!
One Percent Caldari Applied Eugenics	Posted - 2007.05.25 14:25:00 - [54] People logging off sucks but it's a lot better than it used to be. Cloaks are fine. Local chat is the problem. Give us a local chat that you only appear in when you speak. At the same time, give us a scanner (the one every ship has) that is system-wide and distinguishes between manned and unmanned ships. This would allow a scout or whoever to see how many piloted ships are in the system as soon as they jump in, unless the ships are cloaked (as it should be). Obviously, this would force isk farmers to be more alert and give those who hunt them the option to tackle with a cloaking ship. -
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 14:25:00 - [55] Originally by: madaluap Edited by: madaluap on 25/05/2007 13:57:02 Did CCP change bombers, so that they can use covert ops cloaking device? Sorry, I thought they could fit them. Never flown one or known anyone that does. I guess there is a reason for that. --- Help reduce lag in eve by supporting the Titans. Screenshots
Maeltstome Minmatar Caldari Navy Raiders	Posted - 2007.05.25 14:34:00 - [56] Cloaks are the new WCS it appears. Remove people's ability to cloak and ratters will get raped, i know this - since cloaks are what usually saves ratters from me. If you use your brain rather than just 'scan, warp, pop" you might not have a problem. Use your common sense to work out which belt they are at and sit cloaked in it, or the next belt. They will either decloak and come to the belt or log off - in which case they are loosing money, so you have to find some real targets to fight. Failing that wait on the gates on the way out of the system.... but that would involve to much effort for standard gankers eh?
TZeer BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.05.25 14:41:00 - [57] Originally by: Shinigami Edited by: Shinigami on 25/05/2007 14:21:58 Edited by: Shinigami on 25/05/2007 11:36:58 Edited by: Shinigami on 25/05/2007 09:16:58 Almost everyone (except the isk farmers) wants to see some sort of nerf for cloaks. Currently there are ravens (Some people call them Professional Ratters or isk farmers.) in 0.0 space ratting with almost zero risk. When you enter the system they are in a safe spot and cloaked before you can even warp away from the gate. I don't think making it possible to scan cloaked ships is the right solution though. Instead it should be made so that they can't just stay cloaked forever. The idea: - Cloaking devices now require fuel to operate. (I suggest heavy water.) - Activation of the cloaking device uses around 80 - 100 fuel. - After activation the cloak uses 1 fuel per minute. - This only applies to the prototype and improved cloaks. The specialized Covert Ops Cloaking Device II should not be changed. In other words the Covert Ops and Recons would stay the same. This would mean your average battleship might be able to cloak around 8 times before running out of fuel. If he cloaked only once, he could stay cloaked for around 10 hours. Fuel costs could be adjusted for smaller ships, but I think it would be easier to just add small, medium, large, and x-large cloaks to the game. Sometimes they warp to a safespot and log out instead. This tactic also needs to be addressed, but I haven't given much thought to a solution. Perhaps adding an aggression timer for npcs that works similar to the one for players would fix the problem. (Quickly written while trying to probe a raven.) Please get your head out... How can you ask for a nerf for the cloak when you in reality isnt even close to solving the problem? You said it yourself... Quote: Sometimes they warp to a safespot and log out instead. Quote: This tactic also needs to be addressed, but I haven't given much thought to a solution. WTF??
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.25 14:54:00 - [58] lol, wierd seeing BE complain about something that might reduce the effectiveness of cloaks... Anyway, this solution is still bang on for stopping macro-ratters and not harming anybody else particularly, so it works for me. sgb
TZeer BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:02:00 - [59] Originally by: smallgreenblur lol, wierd seeing BE complain about something that might reduce the effectiveness of cloaks... Anyway, this solution is still bang on for stopping macro-ratters and not harming anybody else particularly, so it works for me. sgb Wrong, Ctrl+Q. No problem solved. And about hurting someone else. LOL, you know how many cloakers die to us weekly? People have a weird thought that cloaks are "uber" Well they are not. We killed over 60 covert/recon`s this week. Then you can add all the people who fitted cloaks on non spec ships. If you wanna make modules useless, go ahead.
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:04:00 - [60] Doesn't look like it will make the module useless. More to the point, I find it unlikely that macro-ratters will use ctrl-q since that kinda defeats the point of being afk... sgb
n'yleth	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:09:00 - [61] I just like feeling stealthy? can't I do that?
n0thing Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:13:00 - [62] Originally by: Empero Edited by: Empero on 25/05/2007 04:03:07 Your nerf is too complicated. Easiest way would be that: (Cyno gen. like) Activation timer i.e. 300 seconds, than 60sec penalty till you can turn it on again. Or just remove local ;-) Edit: typos And have them NPC in recons As for op, quite good idea imo, tho maybe like suggested above, better make it on already existing principle. ---
TZeer BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:14:00 - [63] Edited by: TZeer on 25/05/2007 15:15:57 I dont think adding fuel should be the solution. Cap usage could be just as good, then you dont need to haul around that bloody fuel. But the cap usage shouldnt be more then that you would be able to sustain a claok for at least 1 hour. Peeps need to remember that not everyone is in an alliance. And not everyone want`s to be in an alliance.
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:21:00 - [64] Originally by: TZeer Edited by: TZeer on 25/05/2007 15:15:57 I dont think adding fuel should be the solution. Cap usage could be just as good, then you dont need to haul around that bloody fuel. But the cap usage shouldnt be more then that you would be able to sustain a claok for at least 1 hour. Peeps need to remember that not everyone is in an alliance. And not everyone want`s to be in an alliance. Yeah cap usage sounds good, would work nicely against macro-ratters since they wouldn't be able to know if somebody was going to sit in the system long enough to have them uncloak. Not sure how the alliance thing fits in tho. All you need is the ability to sit cloaked for 15 mins before logging off to operate 'behind enemy lines', nothing proposed so far has changed that ability. sgb
NIkis Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:31:00 - [65] yawn cloak is ok but some people's ego could use a nerf And 'nerf logoff' ? you lot are starting to sound like those junkies with a needle in their arm 24/7. Theres no reason to further nerf logoff now that scanning time (with the proper skills) is comparable with the time a ship vanishes. I thought the 'recent' titan affairs would make that obvious, but some people need to be poked in the eye with the obvious. WTF >?!
Ay'Not Sivad	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:31:00 - [66] or... you could head straight to the problem, and make it so that the prototype and improved cloakers only last for 5 minutes or something like that. the longer you run your cloak for, the longer it takes to cool it down(perhaps half of the time you were cloaked). let's say you're flying a raven, with a prototype cloaking device, you see local flare up and you warp to your safe spot and cloak. after 5 minutes, your cloak turns off on it's own, and there's a 2 minute, 30 second cool down period. If you were to only run your cloak for 2 minutes, then you'll only have to wait 1 minute to use it again. either apply this same thing to cov ops ships(the ones with CPU reductions), and then put something like this on there: 20% reduction in Covert Ops Cloaking Device cool down period and 20% increase in Covert Ops Cloaking Device Duration per level - or just skip this whole thing for cov ops ships.
Badhands Gallente DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:32:00 - [67] Originally by: justcheckingthemarket i say nerf anoying pussies that aint got nothing better to do than whine! Wow how is '****' sensored but not 'pussies'? On topic: sounds fine, but that requirement of 800 per activation sounds a bit high. .
Heloise ChateauBriande	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:40:00 - [68] The module doesn't need to be changed... cloaking in general needs to be changed. Until the cloaking rules ARE changed so that you can probe out a cloaker... I suggest that you just sit in local (in cloak) for 5 days... eventually the farmer will get used to you being there and will start ratting again. Then nail him. Is this easy or worth your time? Depends upon how many accounts you have. However I definately feel that there should be probes for revealing cloaked ships. I think it should not be a trivial undertaking... but that if someone is afk/cloaked for hours or days... they should come back and find a pod. - Helo
Trovax Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:41:00 - [69] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby .....Where is my dedicated exploration vessels ..... OF COURSE!!! How could i have missied it. The sudden influx of 'NERF CLOAK' posts started when exploration began!! And now that the 'Carebears'that want to actually play with the new features and content in the game that CCP have provided, there is a sudden influx of 'CLOAKED' vessels in the 0.0 regions because those that want to play the content want to do so without the forced PVP, HENSE THEY TAKE A CLOAK!! Now those of you that force your PVP lifestyle on other players arnt happy because you know theres target there but you just cnt get them cos they sit lcoaked until you gone on your merry way, and then continue with the exploration. I think the real reason FUEL is being asked for is becasue those that FORCE PVP, know that once their fuel supply runs out they will have no choice but to head back to empire for more, giving PVP'rs extra targets to shoot at!! Its got nothing to do with the fact that they pose a threat at all. Thats so lame and selfish!! "I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant"
Marcus Alkhaar Conisor Excavations Syndicate Antagonistic Assembly	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:44:00 - [70] Originally by: smallgreenblur Originally by: Marcus Alkhaar Off-topic: stop derailing the thread, thank you. try to be even remotely constructive if you want to post On-topic: nice Idea, good sir Death God . It wouldnt nerf haulers using cloaks either. with an agression from belt rats lasting 1-2 minutes it would totaly wipe out those macro-ravens ratting 0.0 systems. No such thing as agro from belt rats, however it would severely hurt macro-ravens as they would be unable to go afk for longer periods of time without knowing if they had enough fuel for their cloaks. sgb I was talking about if CCP could add an agression from belt rats ------------------ Might Aswell Train Another Race Idiot
Damned Force	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:55:00 - [71] Originally by: One Percent People logging off sucks but it's a lot better than it used to be. Cloaks are fine. Local chat is the problem. Give us a local chat that you only appear in when you speak. At the same time, give us a scanner (the one every ship has) that is system-wide and distinguishes between manned and unmanned ships. This would allow a scout or whoever to see how many piloted ships are in the system as soon as they jump in, unless the ships are cloaked (as it should be). Obviously, this would force isk farmers to be more alert and give those who hunt them the option to tackle with a cloaking ship. If no local, than this part of the game would not be hunting npc-ers, but purely executions in the systems. u go system to system and execute everyone, because they just see u if they locked u. i like ganking too, but i would nothing else to do, just go system, scan, warp, kill. If u see the ship just if beginned to lock u, than u have no chance. so thats would be no more a challange. i donno why u all would like just easy kills. in this case u would be just an another type of isk farmer
Illsauros	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:56:00 - [72] Originally by: Billy Hardcore There's tons of corpless ISK farmers everywhere in 0.0 sovereign space. These people cannot be forcefully removed from these systems simply because they just save and cloak up the moment anyone enters local. I'm not in favor of ISK farmers, but basically it sounds like you're saying you should be able to easily hang on to systems you're not actually using and I have to disagree. If it bothers you so much, put a permanent presence there.
Damned Force	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:59:00 - [73] Originally by: Illsauros Originally by: Billy Hardcore There's tons of corpless ISK farmers everywhere in 0.0 sovereign space. These people cannot be forcefully removed from these systems simply because they just save and cloak up the moment anyone enters local. I'm not in favor of ISK farmers, but basically it sounds like you're saying you should be able to easily hang on to systems you're not actually using and I have to disagree. If it bothers you so much, put a permanent presence there. /signed could not be better sad
Christopher Dalran Gallente Deadly Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.25 16:13:00 - [74] Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 25/05/2007 16:13:11 There is a way to get people that cloak then Log. Most people that dont use cloaks (in fact most people that use cloaks dont even know this) but if you log out or lose your link while cloaked you will not only warp off and wait 1 minute to leave the game but you will DECLOAK. Add the offender to your buddy list and wait for them to log, soon as they do start a scan and get them before 1 minute elapses (you only have to hit them once to reset the timer, kill them at your leisure). I probably just informed all your targets aswell but lets hope they dont read. ------------------------------- C.D's Formula for success ------------------------------- Credit Card = Game Time Card Gametime Card = ISK Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 16:17:00 - [75] The only way to stop farmers/ratters from CRTL-Q or Cloak is to make them commit to the spawn they are killing. Have every NPC rat scramble in 0.0 belts. Yeah you heard me! The holy grail - If you want to gain the riches from your current spawn - you have to commit to killing it! It will also remove this solo ratting and encorage people to rat in groups. -- Billion Isk Mission
Guma Victims of Confusion Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.05.25 16:36:00 - [76] I like the Cloak how it is. Sry, but i think there is no need to nerf modules cause of this "professional" ratters.
NIkis Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E	Posted - 2007.05.25 16:43:00 - [77] Originally by: Christopher Dalran Edited by: Christopher Dalran on 25/05/2007 16:13:11 There is a way to get people that cloak then Log. Most people that dont use cloaks (in fact most people that use cloaks dont even know this) but if you log out or lose your link while cloaked you will not only warp off and wait 1 minute to leave the game but you will DECLOAK. Add the offender to your buddy list and wait for them to log, soon as they do start a scan and get them before 1 minute elapses (you only have to hit them once to reset the timer, kill them at your leisure). I probably just informed all your targets aswell but lets hope they dont read. WOW it must be great killing a sitting duck. Winning such a challenge, your feats will be remember and made into legend in the years to come. Originally by: Guma I like the Cloak how it is. Sry, but i think there is no need to nerf modules cause of this "professional" ratters. Very much agreed. Nothing is wrong with cloak, but some people's ego could use a nerf. A professional ratter doesn't even have a proper pvp fitting, but as above.. it must be great target practice for some poor souls.
Maxine Blade	Posted - 2007.05.25 17:00:00 - [78] Sorry, but I think this thread is pointless... Let's say CCP does nerf cloaks and logging off. I'll bet you 20 Billion ISK that someone will start a new whine thread. TOPIC: Make it take longer to initiate warp, or make probe scanning shorter, cause my prey is warping form moon to SS to planet and I can't probe him fast enough... People will adapt, so stop nerfing stuff.
pandymen Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.25 18:37:00 - [79] Ok, first off, sorry for not reading all of the second page, but i think I got the jist. Anyways, I do not like the idea of nerfing all but the cov ops cloak to use fuel. There are many legit uses of cloaks that don't involve 0.0 ratting, and it would make it a bit too ridiculous. Instead, I have this proposal. 1. After a cloak is deactivated, there is a cooldown before it is allowed to activate again. Throw out some numbers there, 1-2 minutes? 2. When a cloak is activated for more than...say....5 minutes, it incurs a fuel penalty (like the activation amount listed initially). If the ship does not have the fuel necessary, then the cloak is deactivated, and the cooldown timer starts counting. Every minute the cloak is active after the initial 5 minutes will use a small amount of fuel. This way, if you just use a cloak for a little bit to escape a gatecamp, you don't need to have all that bulky fuel. The only reason you would need fuel is if you intend on keeping your cloak active for very long periods of time, just like these isk farmers have to. Also, cov ops cloaking devices can be exempt from the rule.
E Vile Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.25 18:46:00 - [80] Very sick of this trend of people whining for a nerf when they find someone is tricky, or difficult to kill. Cloaks are in no way overpowered. If you could shoot while cloaked I could see a problem. If anything they should make you invisi to local. Get over yourselves. "The key to immortality is to first live a life worth remembering." Shohadaku New York Metal
Maxine Blade	Posted - 2007.05.25 18:48:00 - [81] Originally by: pandymen Ok, first off, sorry for not reading all of the second page, but i think I got the jist. Anyways, I do not like the idea of nerfing all but the cov ops cloak to use fuel. There are many legit uses of cloaks that don't involve 0.0 ratting, and it would make it a bit too ridiculous. Instead, I have this proposal. 1. After a cloak is deactivated, there is a cooldown before it is allowed to activate again. Throw out some numbers there, 1-2 minutes? 2. When a cloak is activated for more than...say....5 minutes, it incurs a fuel penalty (like the activation amount listed initially). If the ship does not have the fuel necessary, then the cloak is deactivated, and the cooldown timer starts counting. Every minute the cloak is active after the initial 5 minutes will use a small amount of fuel. This way, if you just use a cloak for a little bit to escape a gatecamp, you don't need to have all that bulky fuel. The only reason you would need fuel is if you intend on keeping your cloak active for very long periods of time, just like these isk farmers have to. Also, cov ops cloaking devices can be exempt from the rule. This won't satisfy the OP... I think they want it nerfed for escaping gate camps too...
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 19:10:00 - [82] Originally by: E Vile Very sick of this trend of people whining for a nerf when they find someone is tricky, or difficult to kill. Cloaks are in no way overpowered. If you could shoot while cloaked I could see a problem. If anything they should make you invisi to local. Get over yourselves. The isk farmers aren't "tricky" or "difficult to kill". They are completely invulnerable. They can rat in a system 24 hours a day seven days a week, and there is nothing that can be done to stop them. Obviously many of you have no experience with 0.0 space or cloaking isk farmers. It's possible that they might even be using a 3rd party tool that warps them to a safe spot and cloaks when someone else enters the system. --- Help reduce lag in eve by supporting the Titans. Screenshots
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 19:11:00 - [83] Originally by: Maxine Blade This won't satisfy the OP... I think they want it nerfed for escaping gate camps too... I couldn't care less about escaping gate camps with cloaks. You actually have a chance to spot and reveal the cloaker in that situation. --- Help reduce lag in eve by supporting the Titans. Screenshots
Dreck Morrison Amarr No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.05.25 19:18:00 - [84] No way does making fuel for cloaks solve the issue. Nowadays our gatecamps smack 3+ sigils per week loaded to the gills with Juggernaut Torps - heading out to supply these ships. So the only change will be to also get to kill 3+ loaded with heavy water...... Would much rather have a chance to kill the ss cloaked ravens with some way of eventually scanning them down. But if that is the case they will just log out as someone else had said.... Dreck
Damned Force	Posted - 2007.05.25 19:30:00 - [85] And whats your problem with this isk farmers? they making what they like(if they ruin own game to make just ratting, than is they fault). They paying for play a game as they like.(if they sell the isk is an another thing. that should be somehow fixed- but is CPP's problem). Some peoples do missions in high sec, some are pvp'in solo, some in gang. some producing and some mining. and some ratting. I dont see any problem with this. i still think u want just easy targets. Why that i see here just 2-3 peoples crying for nerf, maybe some more, and not the all 30k. because they think other or dont care about. so as i sad before go back and play, or bye bye
Santa Anna	Posted - 2007.05.25 19:35:00 - [86] Originally by: Shinigami The isk farmers aren't "tricky" or "difficult to kill". They are completely invulnerable. They can rat in a system 24 hours a day seven days a week, and there is nothing that can be done to stop them. Obviously many of you have no experience with 0.0 space or cloaking isk farmers. It's possible that they might even be using a 3rd party tool that warps them to a safe spot and cloaks when someone else enters the system. Aren't such 3rd party tools bannable violations of the TOS?
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.25 20:43:00 - [87] Originally by: Santa Anna Originally by: Shinigami The isk farmers aren't "tricky" or "difficult to kill". They are completely invulnerable. They can rat in a system 24 hours a day seven days a week, and there is nothing that can be done to stop them. Obviously many of you have no experience with 0.0 space or cloaking isk farmers. It's possible that they might even be using a 3rd party tool that warps them to a safe spot and cloaks when someone else enters the system. Aren't such 3rd party tools bannable violations of the TOS? Isk selling is bannable. Yet people do it everyday. You see its not the punishment that matters - Its the chance of getting cought. Bit like real life, since most criminals could not care less about punishment as they dont expect to be cought anyway, especially if they use alibi's as these isk sellers do. But the only reasonable way to stop farmers in 0.0 is quite simply have all 0.0 npc rats scramble. - This forces them to commit to their spawn insted of a macro CTRL-Q or Macro Warpoff as soon as someone comes into local. This gives time of roaming people to get a kill. After all, if they want the riches of a spawm, then they need to commit to killing it. -- Billion Isk Mission
Horas Redwyne	Posted - 2007.05.25 21:06:00 - [88] Edited by: Horas Redwyne on 25/05/2007 21:05:02 Anyone trying to cloak or log while a mighty PIWAT enters the system should be insta warped to the pirate with zero cap and in hull when possible. The stuff i have to read here....
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:20:00 - [89] Originally by: Dreck Morrison No way does making fuel for cloaks solve the issue. Nowadays our gatecamps smack 3+ sigils per week loaded to the gills with Juggernaut Torps - heading out to supply these ships. So the only change will be to also get to kill 3+ loaded with heavy water...... Would much rather have a chance to kill the ss cloaked ravens with some way of eventually scanning them down. But if that is the case they will just log out as someone else had said.... Dreck I'm sure there's a solution. You could make the fuel volatile so that it can't survive in a jet can. Or you could make it more expensive. Imagine if a farmer was paying 250mil per day to cloak every time someone passed through a system. --- Help reduce lag in eve by supporting the Titans. Screenshots
Elspeth Vigneron Caldari Phoenix Logistics Industries	Posted - 2007.05.26 00:48:00 - [90] Originally by: One Percent People logging off sucks but it's a lot better than it used to be. Cloaks are fine. Local chat is the problem. Give us a local chat that you only appear in when you speak. At the same time, give us a scanner (the one every ship has) that is system-wide and distinguishes between manned and unmanned ships. This would allow a scout or whoever to see how many piloted ships are in the system as soon as they jump in, unless the ships are cloaked (as it should be). Obviously, this would force isk farmers to be more alert and give those who hunt them the option to tackle with a cloaking ship. I like this the best of all that I've read. Get rid of the local chat early warning system and the quasi-perfect-detector goes away. Evens things up. Phoenix Logistics Industries
InnerDrive	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:01:00 - [91] Originally by: Shinigami Edited by: Shinigami on 25/05/2007 14:21:58 (Quickly written while trying to probe a raven.) <- says it all Soo someone not abble to find a cloaked player huh , tough luck. im very much against nerfing cloaking at all. with the huge nerfs u get on bs with a cloak on they are no good at pvp anyways.
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:05:00 - [92] Originally by: Elspeth Vigneron I like this the best of all that I've read. Get rid of the local chat early warning system and the quasi-perfect-detector goes away. Evens things up. It is an ideal solution, but what are the chances of CCP actually implementing it? --- Help reduce lag in eve by supporting the Titans. Screenshots
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 01:06:00 - [93] Originally by: InnerDrive Originally by: Shinigami Edited by: Shinigami on 25/05/2007 14:21:58 (Quickly written while trying to probe a raven.) <- says it all Soo someone not abble to find a cloaked player huh , tough luck. im very much against nerfing cloaking at all. with the huge nerfs u get on bs with a cloak on they are no good at pvp anyways. Who cares if they are fitted for pvp? The problem is that they can rat in our territory without paying rent. They do so with zero risk. --- Help reduce lag in eve by supporting the Titans. Screenshots
Damned Force	Posted - 2007.05.26 05:59:00 - [94] Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: InnerDrive Originally by: Shinigami Edited by: Shinigami on 25/05/2007 14:21:58 (Quickly written while trying to probe a raven.) <- says it all Soo someone not abble to find a cloaked player huh , tough luck. im very much against nerfing cloaking at all. with the huge nerfs u get on bs with a cloak on they are no good at pvp anyways. Who cares if they are fitted for pvp? The problem is that they can rat in our territory without paying rent. They do so with zero risk. Without paying rent. So on the end u sad what is your prob. everyone should pay because u are part of a big alliance or die. Just in your alliance members should play as they like. others just with your enabling. Such players ruins the game of others. I personly had nothing against BoB, but if all others think so i hope u would be soon defeated and pay rents even for living in EVE
Lamias	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:37:00 - [95] I am all for getting rid of local chat OR giving people the option to appear in it like in most other chat channels. If you want to talk in there, then cool you show up. If you don't want to be noticed as easily, then keep quite and your pic won't show. You still have the scanner, so learn to use it and take the risk of being in lowsec or 0.0 . Local chat is unnecessary, makes 0.0 & low sec less dangerous and causes other problems. In EVE danger = fun.
Markus Aurelian	Posted - 2007.05.26 07:49:00 - [96] Originally by: Damned Force Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: InnerDrive Originally by: Shinigami Edited by: Shinigami on 25/05/2007 14:21:58 (Quickly written while trying to probe a raven.) <- says it all Soo someone not abble to find a cloaked player huh , tough luck. im very much against nerfing cloaking at all. with the huge nerfs u get on bs with a cloak on they are no good at pvp anyways. Who cares if they are fitted for pvp? The problem is that they can rat in our territory without paying rent. They do so with zero risk. Without paying rent. So on the end u sad what is your prob. everyone should pay because u are part of a big alliance or die. Just in your alliance members should play as they like. others just with your enabling. Such players ruins the game of others. I personly had nothing against BoB, but if all others think so i hope u would be soon defeated and pay rents even for living in EVE perfectly stated. its not invulnerable because they still have to decloak to make money. so if you want to stop people from farming your systems than perhaps you should actually have a presence in that system. if you dont have sov and a permanent presence the space shouldnt be yours anyways. 0.0 is supposed to be lawless, not risky. if you cant handle someone being a squatter, well thats just too bad aint it. they shouldnt be forced to join your alliance to have access to good rats and belts that you claim. if you cant catch them then your claim isnt all that strong. cloaks arent the i win button for 0.0, and they have serious drawbacks when fitting them.
Mudkest MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:00:00 - [97] Originally by: Shinigami - Cloaking devices now require fuel to operate. (I suggest heavy water.) - Activation of the cloaking device uses around 80 - 100 fuel. - After activation the cloak uses 1 fuel per minute. - This only applies to the prototype and improved cloaks. The specialized Covert Ops Cloaking Device II should not be changed. In other words the Covert Ops and Recons would stay the same. big hit for stealthbombers ...
Mudkest MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.05.26 08:03:00 - [98] Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: RuleoftheBone Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 25/05/2007 04:36:55 Did you get the Raven?? No I landed 10km away from him when the huge lag spike hit. He logged out and I spent 5 minutes trying to deactivate my cloak to launch a probe. no comment O.O
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.26 10:56:00 - [99] Edited by: smallgreenblur on 26/05/2007 10:54:56 Originally by: Markus Aurelian Originally by: Damned Force Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: InnerDrive Originally by: Shinigami Edited by: Shinigami on 25/05/2007 14:21:58 (Quickly written while trying to probe a raven.) <- says it all Soo someone not abble to find a cloaked player huh , tough luck. im very much against nerfing cloaking at all. with the huge nerfs u get on bs with a cloak on they are no good at pvp anyways. Who cares if they are fitted for pvp? The problem is that they can rat in our territory without paying rent. They do so with zero risk. Without paying rent. So on the end u sad what is your prob. everyone should pay because u are part of a big alliance or die. Just in your alliance members should play as they like. others just with your enabling. Such players ruins the game of others. I personly had nothing against BoB, but if all others think so i hope u would be soon defeated and pay rents even for living in EVE perfectly stated. its not invulnerable because they still have to decloak to make money. so if you want to stop people from farming your systems than perhaps you should actually have a presence in that system. if you dont have sov and a permanent presence the space shouldnt be yours anyways. 0.0 is supposed to be lawless, not risky. if you cant handle someone being a squatter, well thats just too bad aint it. they shouldnt be forced to join your alliance to have access to good rats and belts that you claim. if you cant catch them then your claim isnt all that strong. cloaks arent the i win button for 0.0, and they have serious drawbacks when fitting them. Actually that's a load of rubbish. As stated many times in this thread the problem is with people running 3rd party programs that allow them to go afk and continue ratting, however when somebody enters the system they are automatically warped to ss and cloaked. 0.0 is about risk vs reward. It's not about no risk vs big reward. sgb
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:04:00 - [100] Originally by: Markus Aurelian cloaks arent the i win button for 0.0, and they have serious drawbacks when fitting them. You mean the small targeting delay? Hardly a serious drawback for a macro ratter. --- Dianabolic speaks about BoB's developer relationship. Lag Killer
Harris Warspite Developments Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:11:00 - [101] Firstly, I'm not sure that I agree that they need nerfing, but that is because I don't have cause to be frustrated by cloaking NPC'ers. I've come across them but que sera sera and all that. However, if it were to be implented then how about rather than fuel, they use capacitor instead with a bonus to covert-ops class ships (including stealth bombers of course). (if it's been mentioned already, sorry but didn't read past first page) You then have no need to modify the cloaks themselves which are moderately balanced as it is. You would however have to have some sort of value that would apply to each ship class to balance the amount of cap used which is no big deal if fuel had to be used.. same consideration. It would be appropriate by way of the fact that bigger ships could be considered to use more capacitor (power) to cloak anyway.
Gee Lok	Posted - 2007.05.26 11:48:00 - [102] Originally by: NIkis And 'nerf logoff' ? you lot are starting to sound like those junkies with a needle in their arm 24/7. Theres no reason to further nerf logoff now that scanning time (with the proper skills) is comparable with the time a ship vanishes. I was about to agree with someone who said nerf logoffski first, you are right.
NIkis Minmatar W33D Corp. O X I D E	Posted - 2007.05.26 17:52:00 - [103] Originally by: smallgreenblur Actually that's a load of rubbish. As stated many times in this thread the problem is with people running 3rd party programs that allow them to go afk and continue ratting, however when somebody enters the system they are automatically warped to ss and cloaked. 0.0 is about risk vs reward. It's not about no risk vs big reward. sgb Actually what you claim here is a load of rubbish. If the bit about third party programs is true, those are the problem, not cloaking. I smell BS tho. And the bit about BOB not being able to defend its own 'claimed' space is laughable... looks like you guys have too much space for your needs. Care to give some back ?
Markus Aurelian	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:02:00 - [104] Originally by: NIkis Originally by: smallgreenblur Actually that's a load of rubbish. As stated many times in this thread the problem is with people running 3rd party programs that allow them to go afk and continue ratting, however when somebody enters the system they are automatically warped to ss and cloaked. 0.0 is about risk vs reward. It's not about no risk vs big reward. sgb Actually what you claim here is a load of rubbish. If the bit about third party programs is true, those are the problem, not cloaking. I smell BS tho. And the bit about BOB not being able to defend its own 'claimed' space is laughable... looks like you guys have too much space for your needs. Care to give some back ? exactly. if you dont have enough ppl to protect all of the space you claim, then perhaps its not really yours and you should accept that. if you had a permanent presence in these claimed systems, itd be a bit difficult for an npc'er to operate since theyd have to be cloaked all the time to avoid getting hunted down. its not impossible to find someone with a cloak, especially if theyre stupid and warp to SS that has say, cans anchored, or another ship. the problem isnt the behavior of most people using cloaks, apparently the problem is just like macroing. just because a small portion uses 3rd party programs to make money, does not mean you should nerf the cloak for those who use it to say, npc in their own alliance space and avoid that roaming gang of 25 looking for trouble until backup arrives. in other words, the game mechanics are working, but the behavior of some players is not. you want to nerf mining barges in high sec because of macros? sure, itd down their efficiency but probably wouldnt help the system overall.
Kark Shidari	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:41:00 - [105] Seeing as logging out is just as powerful if not more powerful than a cloak, I don't see how fixing cloaks will fix these farmers. They're extremely annoying but like most overpowered things, it's a mix of factors. The Local channel, cloaks, ships which can fight while staying aligned, the way belt rats work/respawn (an integral part of the game), and logoffs (IE, agro timers not being set by NPCs). I am also very suspicious that certain entities sanction the farmers, KoS for instance. Farmer Ravens are easy to kill when they are traveling. Often times they don't even use a scout, and they never put up a real fight. If 0.0 alliances stopped supporting them, their business would probably dry up. Cloaks are an interesting "problem" but I hate the current nerf calls. They are being justified by citing a problem which isn't really rooted in cloaking in the first place.
Blaxxor Tri Optimum Ev0ke	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:50:00 - [106] Cloaks are fine. If you dont like the ISK-farmer then camp him with an ALt use a cloak to. We have done this with a beatrice corp Guy, he lost 3 Raven.We needed 3 Days but just for fun because we like killing ships. IF you camp him he has 3 Options : 1 stay cloaked , 2 logg out , 3 go out of system. Follow him ,camp him if he decloak and hunt move a pvp-ship to System tackle him with the alt and warp the HAC , RECON wathever in ... Problem solved. Cloakes are fine !
pandymen Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:02:00 - [107] Edited by: pandymen on 26/05/2007 22:01:19 I have another solution to the rent-free isk farmer problem.....actually have people ratting in your belts. What? This isn't possible because you have wwaaaayyy more belts than you have players to rat them? Well, then too bad. Honestly, many sov 0.0 systems are empty or have 1 or 2 people in them. You obviously aren't having a shortage of belts to rat, and the isk farmers obviously aren't ratting in belts frequented by your players. Otherwise, they would be stuck in their safespots for the majority of the day and they wouldn't be ratting at all. I retract my earlier proposed solution to the cloaking problem. If you don't have enough people to populate all of your systems and rat them regularly, then you shouldn't expect to get rent from every person who pops in.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.05.26 22:02:00 - [108] Edited by: madaluap on 26/05/2007 22:02:14 I dont like the idea though. Basicly the game is getting ruined/nerfed because macro's are ruining the game, if you are still with me. I used to rat in FIX space in 0.0. My vexor had a nos on it, these days i would probably replace that with a cloak. Now that BOB came into that region, why would it be a problem for a player to rat in a 0.0 system, cloaking when a enemy comes near? Why is that bad? Should all people move to empire to do lvl 4, just to make a bit of money. This will remove even more targets. All that just because some macro's nobody gives a **** about are afk npcing. Just petition em and be done with it. Gamebreaking solutions for a minor problem imo. _________________________________________________ Breetime A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 04:15:00 - [109] Take your anti-bob crap elsewhere. It's obvious a lot of you have no experience with the instacloaked farmers. The problem does exist, and I challenge you to come up with a solution that does not involve camping the system for hours hoping the farmer might give up and leave. Or just tell me why we should be forced to rat in order to secure our territory. --- Dianabolic speaks about BoB's developer relationship. Lag Killer
Blaxxor Tri Optimum Ev0ke	Posted - 2007.05.27 07:35:00 - [110] There is no Anti-BoB-crap , to place an alt in a Assfrig cloaked with 2 Scrambler in System is easy. You havent to hope , the Farmer has no other choice then stay cloaked , leave or hunt. You havent to attack him in the same time if he uncloak just to scann his belt an move a taskforce/ship to this system. Sooner or later he lose so to much ships over time and get no isk. You just want CCP to do your JOB ! adapt !
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:18:00 - [111] Originally by: Blaxxor There is no Anti-BoB-crap , to place an alt in a Assfrig cloaked with 2 Scrambler in System is easy. You havent to hope , the Farmer has no other choice then stay cloaked , leave or hunt. You havent to attack him in the same time if he uncloak just to scann his belt an move a taskforce/ship to this system. Sooner or later he lose so to much ships over time and get no isk. You just want CCP to do your JOB ! adapt ! Wasn't talking to you. But your solution is the same old "wait for hours and hope he decides to do something" idea. Meanwhile he is just running one of his shop's other 200 farming accounts. --- Dianabolic speaks about BoB's developer relationship. Lag Killer
Guma Victims of Confusion Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.05.27 09:27:00 - [112] Edited by: Guma on 27/05/2007 09:29:54 Originally by: Blaxxor There is no Anti-BoB-crap , to place an alt in a Assfrig cloaked with 2 Scrambler in System is easy. You havent to hope , the Farmer has no other choice then stay cloaked , leave or hunt. You havent to attack him in the same time if he uncloak just to scann his belt an move a taskforce/ship to this system. Sooner or later he lose so to much ships over time and get no isk. You just want CCP to do your JOB ! adapt ! /signed Think, before nerf. That's the way it should go ;). Originally by: Shinigami Wasn't talking to you. But your solution is the same old "wait for hours and hope he decides to do something" idea. Meanwhile he is just running one of his shop's other 200 farming accounts. This problem doesn't depend on "people using cloaks to save their a.." This depends on using multiple accounts....in my opinion this is no argument against the cloak!
Lunaz	Posted - 2007.05.27 10:43:00 - [113] I have looked over quite a few "nerf cloak" threads and i have come to the following conclusion. Many posts in this thread are about killing afk isk makers and many posts revolve around the AFK factor. Well I agree that you shouldnt macro kills/mining i really really dont like that and imo they prob deserve to go boom for not actualy playing the game. BUT here is the ultimate question. WHY the hell should everyone suffer just because of those that use the cloak in an afk escape fassion? Everyone shouldnt suffer because of the actions of a select group of others. I will eventualy be training for a cloak mainly cause i think its fun to just mess around with and i am even thinking of using it after i get more skills to throw on a stealth bomber and mission run JUST FOR A CHALLENGE. But if ANY nerfs happen to cloak and i mean any i am gonna say to heck with it and train something else and if this nerf anything that i cant kill or counter with the greatest of ease trend continues i am gonna say to heck with the game as well. Nerfs are one of the best ways to destroy a game. Dont get me wrong it can save/help it too but too eften it just ****es people off. Its true that you cant please everyone but trying to is probably even worse than just leaving things as is and letting people adapt naturaly over time rather than playing around with stuff. Not saying its easy or hey even possible to counter or adapt too but where there is a will there is a way. You may not be able to kil that macro using raven guy who logs or cloaks or both but then again not everyone does it. Sorry if my post seems like an attack to people but i just feel very strongly about the cloak as it is one of my favorite features that i just cant wait to try out. I loved it in E&B and i am going to love it here. However to be fair if anyone would like to give 5 GOOD reasons why the cloak should be nerfed than i will reconsider my stance on this. By good reasons i dont mean the following: To counter afk'ers To counter Macro Users To counter just not being able to find that certain person to kill that happens to enter the space where you are To counter all of the above or a combo of a few i have listed I consider these bad reasons cause not everyone afk/macro plays or wants to be involved in PVP. NOW if everyone tommarow started using a cloak to do those things then fine nerf it but until then leave me and any others that wanna use the cloak in a AT THE KEYBOARD fassion alone and out of the nerf line of sight. Also i do understand the whole if you go to low sec space there should be risk. But wouldnt using macro's like that be a risk in itself ? And if it isnt or if CCP doesnt activly enforce it then it seems to me that THAT is the problem right there. THey should initiate a system by were if a player suspects a person of afk/macro using they submit it to CCP who would then shadow them and see if its true and if it is.... BAN. Its exactly what they do in DAOC another mmo i play. You submit it and a CSR will shadow them completely invisible to where you dont even know they are there and catch em right in the act. Now for those that use it AT THE KEYBOARD and see you come in and cloak and you cant find em well then they are using the cloak as it is designed to be used or one way i should say and thats to hide and avoid confrontation. No one has the right to say oh hey it aint fair he is in low sec and i cant find and kill him. He is using a mod as it was intended in no way breaking the rules UNLESS he is doing it afk/with macro. IN which case refer to my above statement on how to stop it. Again i am sorry if this post seems harsh or aggressive but please understand some of us want to use the cloak for the fun aspect of just being invisible/unseen. Should we suffer as well ??????????
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:21:00 - [114] I agree 0.0 is starting to have alot of these chinese isk farmers, (it is brutaly obvious with thier atrocious english), there is basicly nothing you can do exept log an alt in that system which prevents them from uncloaking. Originally by: Rawne Karrde PVP in EvE is consentual, you agree to it when you login. If you don't like it you're in the wrong game.
Cyberus	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:25:00 - [115] I dont think that it good solution m8. Yes they are anoing but tbh i think better CCP give ability to COVOPS ships to find cloakers and show the ship on tactical overview with 20 km range or so as signature. At this point cloaker can aproch and deaclock ship. Thats actualy the purpose of this ship in game. So simple as that. You got the clocking raven in your space? bring Covops and scan him down. It will land on him get in range gang warp dictor deploy buble covops aproch ship deaclok, gang warp in PAWNAGE.
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:48:00 - [116] Originally by: Cyberus I dont think that it good solution m8. Yes they are anoing but tbh i think better CCP give ability to COVOPS ships to find cloakers and show the ship on tactical overview with 20 km range or so as signature. At this point cloaker can aproch and deaclock ship. Thats actualy the purpose of this ship in game. So simple as that. You got the clocking raven in your space? bring Covops and scan him down. It will land on him get in range gang warp dictor deploy buble covops aproch ship deaclok, gang warp in PAWNAGE. They should just remove cloaks from game before doing this. Your idea makes cloaks worthless. --- snip Do not troll in your signature -Eldo ([email protected]) Lag Killer
Cyberus	Posted - 2007.05.27 11:57:00 - [117] Edited by: Cyberus on 27/05/2007 11:57:17 Originally by: Shinigami Originally by: Cyberus I dont think that it good solution m8. Yes they are anoing but tbh i think better CCP give ability to COVOPS ships to find cloakers and show the ship on tactical overview with 20 km range or so as signature. At this point cloaker can aproch and deaclock ship. Thats actualy the purpose of this ship in game. So simple as that. You got the clocking raven in your space? bring Covops and scan him down. It will land on him get in range gang warp dictor deploy buble covops aproch ship deaclok, gang warp in PAWNAGE. They should just remove cloaks from game before doing this. Your idea makes cloaks worthless. Well dont think so. Lets say seeing cloaked ship its lilbit to much. So what the cloakers can do is the resive new mod what can pinpoint the cloaked ship in range of 20 km. So you scan the ship with probes ( i dont say it will be so simple as with uncloaked ships ) if you got pinned ship warp to location and start looking for that ship ( lets say same idea as ships looking for submarines) This module can be based on chance as well so you cant find by single actiavation but probebly spend some time before you find it. If the cloaker lucky he will get out of range of this module and stay alive if covops lucky he will find you before he get away.
haubnFilter	Posted - 2007.05.27 12:04:00 - [118] you will be able to scan cloakers http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=525843&page=1#26
Balian Bowmaker	Posted - 2007.05.27 19:58:00 - [119] Originally by: Empero Edited by: Empero on 25/05/2007 04:03:07 Or just remove local ;-) Edit: typos Personally, think local should be replaced with "Constellation Chat". This way you would know if enemies were in the general area, but would have to actually do some serious scouting to track them down.
Fluffernator	Posted - 2007.05.27 20:10:00 - [120] i've got a better idea, nerf bob since they are isk farmers and want to nerf isk farmers.
Shinigami Gallente Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:22:00 - [121] Originally by: haubnFilter you will be able to scan cloakers http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=525843&page=1#26 So Cloaking Devices are the new Reinforced Bulkheads. I guess this thread isn't needed anymore. --- snip Do not troll in your signature -Eldo ([email protected]) Lag Killer
Antillies Mercenaries of Andosia Naval Academy Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.05.28 03:30:00 - [122] Why not increase the number of Warp scrambling rats? simple fix.
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.28 05:26:00 - [123] Originally by: Antillies Why not increase the number of Warp scrambling rats? simple fix. That would be the best solution. During Castor days (or some time around that) we did have more scrambling rats. Why did CCP change that? I don't know. But I really dislike how the game got more carebearized by CCP. Back then, 0.0 belt rats posed "some" noticeable risk, now they pose almost no risk. Why must belting in 0.0 be so ridiculously easy? Bring back scrambling rats. Bring back challange to the game. And for god's sake, add at least SOME spawns that are actually hard to kill, at least in -0.5 to -1.0 systems. (an example of hard spawn would include 3-type spawn of up to 9 NPCs total, up to 3 scramble frigs, 3 cruisers, and 3 bs)
PeveS The Edge Foundation	Posted - 2007.05.28 10:27:00 - [124] For many PVP-er ratting is a way to get income (and buy/make new ships). Why nerf that?
Damned Force	Posted - 2007.05.28 11:40:00 - [125] Originally by: PeveS For many PVP-er ratting is a way to get income (and buy/make new ships). Why nerf that? Agree. Not all pvp-ers are in alliances with free t2 BPO's
Neferidian	Posted - 2007.05.28 12:00:00 - [126] easiest option is put a tax on using the cloak, ie 90% tax, as you can only lease the technology from the manufacter. the dedicated cloaker ships , are no good for ratting so does not hurt them.
Phaedruss	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:03:00 - [127] There's a lot being said about cloaking isk farmers, and using this as one justification for nerfing cloaks. I'm curious as to what makes so many think cloak using isk farmers are so prevalent in Eve. Is it that they regularly see cloaking devices on farmer killmails or in wrecks? Is it that they actually regularly witness them cloaking? Is it that they fail at probing them out while still seeing them in local and assume cloaks are being used? I have a bit of experience in several 0.0 regions and have spent my fair share of time hunting down farmers. While I won't attempt to deny that cloaks are used, I don't think I've ever personally seen either of the first two. If someone can provide links of the first, that's fine, but I'd need a truck load to be convinced it's enough of a problem to warrant a nerf. In my experience, the third point above is the most common...anyone else?
Wolverine PL Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:11:00 - [128] Originally by: Phaedruss There's a lot being said about cloaking isk farmers, and using this as one justification for nerfing cloaks. I'm curious as to what makes so many think cloak using isk farmers are so prevalent in Eve. Is it that they regularly see cloaking devices on farmer killmails or in wrecks? Is it that they actually regularly witness them cloaking? Is it that they fail at probing them out while still seeing them in local and assume cloaks are being used? I have a bit of experience in several 0.0 regions and have spent my fair share of time hunting down farmers. While I won't attempt to deny that cloaks are used, I don't think I've ever personally seen either of the first two. If someone can provide links of the first, that's fine, but I'd need a truck load to be convinced it's enough of a problem to warrant a nerf. In my experience, the third point above is the most common...anyone else? Dude when you were last time in 0.0??? Go to tenal/branch/delve etc you can see players in npc corps in ravens on scanner and after less then a minute they disapear (cloaking). I kill lots of them (some of them are noobs), and they all have cloaks (even those who are in TRIUMVIRE/XELAS alliance). And its very hard (they have to make mistake) to kill them. 75% of them are isk farmers (isk sellers, mostly chineese/korean dunno why they sit on our server when they have their own) Their should be way to find cloaked ships (like 1hour scanning time)
Phaedruss	Posted - 2007.05.28 13:18:00 - [129] Originally by: Wolverine PL Dude when you were last time in 0.0??? Go to tenal/branch/delve etc you can see players in npc corps in ravens on scanner and after less then a minute they disapear (cloaking). I kill lots of them (some of them are noobs), and they all have cloaks (even those who are in TRIUMVIRE/XELAS alliance). And its very hard (they have to make mistake) to kill them. 75% of them are isk farmers (isk sellers, mostly chineese/korean dunno why they sit on our server when they have their own) Their should be way to find cloaked ships (like 1hour scanning time) Hmmm, I've spent quite a bit of time in the North and often research various killboards to see what certain farmers are fitting, and honestly can't recall seeing a cloak listed. i'll take your word for it, though. I can however recall on many, many occasions assuming that a farmer had cloaked because I wasn't able to scan or probe him, only to later find out he was actually well outside my probing range.

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