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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Hermia Aliastra	Posted - 2007.06.06 11:42:00 - [151] Originally by: Jaabaa Originally by: CCP Fendahl Originally by: annab Covert ops not getting nerfed is this 1. The frig 2. The module 3. The role ie. covert ops frig and force recons The ability of covert ops frigates to provide intel on enemy movements (otherwise they would be largely pointless IMO). Recons might or might not be handled differently. IMO it should be the role of the ship. i.e. Force Recon (not Combat Recon) & Covert Ops (including the Bombers) are specifically designed for cloaking and their bonuses reflect that role. My view as well I think its a stupid idea in the first place but if they have to do it, then at least leave the specially designed ships alone. If this is going to become the norm, where one group whines about another group's use of seemingly 'overpowered' tactics, then the situation is not great. After reading all the guff about clocks, this is probably whats happening. It was said earlier in this thread that players cant except loosing with a numbers advantage so it MUST be exploitation of some kind, its ridiculous. More ridiculous that Development listens to it. Its lost on me why afk cloakers is such a big problem, people say its avoiding combat or it provides immunity. To me its just an indication of broken warfare mechanics and why players have no immediate goals to engage with small numbers. The new POS system coming soon hopes to address this but its not enough in my opinion, blob forming will still be prevalent and continue with all its ugly side effects.
Tzesaeia	Posted - 2007.06.21 10:36:00 - [152] Ok in the beginning of this thread it was stated that it won't affect most cloakers expect the miners and ratters. That is wrong. The worst case scenario will be a bit different. You are seen in local so everyone knows you are there. They will call backup. A enemy POS will scan for you. Backup will arrive through a jump gate maybe about 10 alliance ships because they gather from all alliance systems within maximum a minute because they can jump through 5 systems with the help of pos jump gates. They will sit therself over the jump gates blockade the system and the cloaker is 100% dead. So every cloaked ship would have to panic and leave the system if he sees somebody comming into local. So cloaking will be completly useless for spying. What the hell is this?! CCP HELP US and remove local in 0.0 only in 0.0! I made a Thread about this check this out cloakers if you want your role back. Noforced in local in 0.0 space anymore instead Alliance local The new POS scanning and jump gates features must be balanced!!! Or 0.0 will become hisgh sec space of the alliances!
Chainsaw Plankton	Posted - 2007.06.21 23:01:00 - [153] rather sure i saw in another post that the probes wont be able to detect cov ops cloak only the prototype cloak and improved.
Pociomundo Gallente World Order The Imperial Order	Posted - 2007.06.21 23:37:00 - [154] Edited by: Pociomundo on 21/06/2007 23:41:05 Originally by: Verone Originally by: Mephysto This is correct. Scan probes will now be able to detect cloaked ships. This update will be testable on Singularity when it next gets updated (probably on Tuesday since this is a holiday weekend here). So, now you're telling me that a solo pvper who's flying a recon around looking for targets and starts to get chased by a big gang can't use his cloak to avoid getting ganked to hell and back in a RECON ship, which is DESIGNED to cloak and remain undetected? Also, a covert ops frigate which is designed to remain cloaked for COVERT OPERATIONS can be detected by being probed out? Congratulations, you're looking to create more mini professions in Eve, and have effectively just completely destroyed covert ops scouting. What a complete and utter pile of crap. Yep it's total BS like this that makes me wonder who exactly is calling the shots at CCP. Covert Ops and Recons become essentially pointless after this when their entire strategy is gone, they are flipsy as hell and so what happens when a scanner gang warps an inty to you or even just a Dictor starts probing people warping to them and dropping a bubble on a Recon that won't get out in time as the Inties etc warp in and lock it down quicker than you can get out that bubble. Being a Recon is gonna be a complete joke if you constantly have to stay aligned to something and start drifting off while being covert watching a gate or station etc. Fast ships moving around even a 5km warp in point with drones circling wil uncloak a ship easy. And all of this, because of whines about people putting basic cloaks on ratting ships, that's the real issue here, the isk farming botters that safespot and cloak, cov ops and recons have been in the game and balanced for ages. It's the basic cloaks that should be detectable. NOT the covert ops cloaks which are specifically trained for and designed to go on just 2 sets of ships. Cov ops II cloak may as well be renamed "Spray paint your ship black and hope no one see's your silhouette II"
SRRAE	Posted - 2007.06.22 09:26:00 - [155] You can tell who are the pirates on here. They are complaining the most. Its not just recons or covertops which are at risk. If anything its normal ships with cloaks which are at risk as they are easy to scan, cant move fast when cloaked and cant warp cloaked. The fact is there is nothing you can do to stop recons from picking off people. Even if you had a fleet of 100 there is nothing you could do, as the recon pirate would do what all pirates do when odds are not in their favour, run and hide. if the cloaked ship is moving around they wont find you, its that simple. Its more to stop people warping off cloaking to be safe and going AFK. And to stop the cloaked alt who simpley sits cloaked 200k from a gate 23/7.
Amy Wang	Posted - 2007.06.22 09:54:00 - [156] Edited by: Amy Wang on 22/06/2007 09:55:41 Specialized cloaking ships are balanced for their role, they have relatively low dps, meaning a single recon wont break the tank of a equally skilled bc or bs. Even groups of recons struggle several minutes to kill single well tanked ships and if the victim is organized enough that is plenty of time to get help to drive the squishy recons off (if you are not organized enough you deserve to die). Notable exception being ofc the pilgrim which is quite strong on its own with drone damage bonus and nos bonus, but there are 3 other recons for which the above is true. About the dps Covert ops do we dont need to talk I guess and stealth bombers are balanced with the inability to warp cloaked, their low hp and their dps isnt all that fancy anyway. So you see everything is balanced here (maybe except for the pilgrim but thats a different matter). Normal ships with cloaks however arent balanced atm. The small sig resolution reduction is a joke compared to the benefits a cloak gives and that is why there are more and more normal ships running around with a cloak fitted, ratters and even pvpers alike. The fact alone that the cloak has taken the place of the wcs in this proves its imbalance. We badly need a nerf to non specialised ships fitting a cloak, be it making it findable with probes, making it use cap or fuel, only working for a limited amount of time, taking a % based number of cpu and/or powergrid thats severly limiting (e.g. 50%) or a combination of the points just listed. There is a reason specialized cloaking ships exist, if your ship isnt specifically build to interface with a cloak, there should be more to it then just losing a bit cpu, scan resolution and a high slot to fit one, much more.
Mag's MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2007.06.22 11:06:00 - [157] Edited by: Mag''s on 22/06/2007 11:06:47 I have no issue whatsoever with none Covert-Ops ships, with cloaks fitted, being detectable. I do however, think it's utterly ridiculous, that a specialist Covert-Ops ship could be scanned. Can you honestly say, that the whole 'would take longer to scan' system would work well? I love CCP, but their track record on similar ideas, it's not good. (EW anyone?) _________________________________________________________
Neco Furyan Caldari	Posted - 2007.06.23 18:14:00 - [158] My 2cents I'm a noob to cov-ops (I'm like 12 days from piloting a buzzard). I like the probing option. I hope CCP takes WWII destroyer vs. submarine battle model into account designing this game mechanic. A cloaked ship at standstill should NEVER be found IMO A moving cloaked ship (we not talking warp speed)... well... they should be found with some creative. Lets just say the probability for a cloak ship to be probed within 5KM of itself should only increase if that ship is moving... and the type of ship as well. If its at a standstill, probed within 30KM is what I suggest... should give a BS fleet time to warp out when a cloaker is detected. I have never found a instance where a cloaked ship was found and destroyed (except for Star Trek - The Undiscovered Country), but take that likely... I ain't no sci-fi expert. All this makes good gameplay to me... old WWII wolf pack tactics... ooo cov-ops is going to be fun now.
Brixer Dai Dai Hai	Posted - 2007.08.14 13:19:00 - [159] Originally by: CCP Fendahl Unfortunately it seems that the cloaking changes won't make it in for the next patch. The code changes have already been made, but got rolled back today because the system didn't work out as intended. However, we still plan to address cloaks in a patch in the near future (without nerfing covert ops of course). Is anyone still working on this issue, or has someone decided that the way cloaks works today is fine and should not be changed ?
Alpine 69 Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.08.14 14:32:00 - [160] Originally by: Verone Originally by: Mephysto This is correct. Scan probes will now be able to detect cloaked ships. This update will be testable on Singularity when it next gets updated (probably on Tuesday since this is a holiday weekend here). So, now you're telling me that a solo pvper who's flying a recon around looking for targets and starts to get chased by a big gang can't use his cloak to avoid getting ganked to hell and back in a RECON ship, which is DESIGNED to cloak and remain undetected? Also, a covert ops frigate which is designed to remain cloaked for COVERT OPERATIONS can be detected by being probed out? Congratulations, you're looking to create more mini professions in Eve, and have effectively just completely destroyed covert ops scouting. What a complete and utter pile of crap. /SIGNED Sweet love for the ones that mod my sig <3 From her? You're on. -Rauth

Loyal Servant Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.	Posted - 2007.08.17 12:23:00 - [161] Originally by: SRRAE You can tell who are the pirates on here. They are complaining the most. Its not just recons or covertops which are at risk. If anything its normal ships with cloaks which are at risk as they are easy to scan, cant move fast when cloaked and cant warp cloaked. The fact is there is nothing you can do to stop recons from picking off people. Even if you had a fleet of 100 there is nothing you could do, as the recon pirate would do what all pirates do when odds are not in their favour, run and hide. if the cloaked ship is moving around they wont find you, its that simple. Its more to stop people warping off cloaking to be safe and going AFK. And to stop the cloaked alt who simpley sits cloaked 200k from a gate 23/7. The only ****ers that cloak are isk farmers and afk ratters. I say make them detectable and be done with it. I do however agree that covert ops and recons be left alone - ships were designed to cloak and fit a covert ops cloak and they should not be detectable... especially covert ops! The damned thing is not a combat ship!
batmoth Amarr Empirius Enigmus Navy Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.17 18:36:00 - [162] how about just nerfing the first 2 cloaks and set the covert ops cloaking device as undectable that would fix the problems on this thread
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.18 01:33:00 - [163] imho its a good change: NOW WE CAN KILL YOU ALL!
Hatch	Posted - 2007.08.18 06:21:00 - [164] How about we just make all the ships able to use the Dooms Day weapon... what is it with the WOW whiners, next thing you know, we'll have an XP based system instead of a skill based system. CCP, grow a back bone and quit screwing with the dynamic of the game that made Eve great to begin with. What is the point of a covert ops ship that isn't covert...
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.18 16:18:00 - [165] Originally by: Hatch Edited by: Hatch on 18/08/2007 06:47:24 How about we just make all the ships able to use the Dooms Day weapon... what is it with the WOW whiners, next thing you know, we'll have an XP based system instead of a skill based system. CCP, grow a back bone and quit screwing with the dynamic of the game that made Eve great to begin with. What is the point of a covert ops ship that isn't covert... as far as using cloaks on a battleship, it isn't like you can decloak and start firing. there is a time delay inwhich you can get torn up, locked down and damped all to hell. As far as being afk in space, what is the real difference in being afk in space and being afk in station other than location information. How much resource is really being tied up here. I seriously doubt any amount of utilization that would cause even the slightest problem. afk cloaking does not make this game great. its gives you kind of invulnerability which just should not exist in eve. once you undock there should always be a counter against your setup/tactic and you must be a possible target. hitting F1 and avoid any danger is just complete utter crap and ***** behavior^2:)
Hatch	Posted - 2007.08.18 17:16:00 - [166] ok, so are we talking about the same level of difficulty as it is to probe out missions, cause that ain't hard
Murukan Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.08.18 22:25:00 - [167] stupid stupid change imo. Seriously ccp what is the logic behind this change? Manlove by Zaphod Jones
Doctor Dre	Posted - 2007.08.19 06:58:00 - [168] cloaking devices = make ship invisible, -xx% to signature radius (kinda like deadspace) covert ops cloaking device = make ship invisible, warp while cloaked, -100% sig radius (no probies)
Delichon	Posted - 2007.08.20 07:49:00 - [169] I am a noobie here, but can someone explain me the following: Imagine that I am a recon pilot and recons CAN be probbable. I am in in my enemies homesystem. I make 3 (4-5-6 - the more, the merrier) safespots. I make a macro, that warps through these safespots at a given time interval (to let the cap regenerate) I run macro andd go AFK Can you catch me using probes?
Chewan Mesa coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.20 10:27:00 - [170] Edited by: Chewan Mesa on 20/08/2007 10:29:23 Originally by: Delichon Edited by: Delichon on 20/08/2007 08:03:46 Edited by: Delichon on 20/08/2007 08:02:44 I am a noobie here, but can someone explain me the following: Imagine that I am a recon pilot and recons CAN be probbable. I am in in my enemy's homesystem. I make 3 (4-5-6 - the more, the merrier) safespots. I make a macro, that warps through these safespots at a given time interval (to let the cap regenerate) I run macro and go AFK Can you catch me using probes? *update - fixed some typos If someone simply probes you out and waits at that spot until your safespot cycle restarts you warp into him.

Satan's Spawn	Posted - 2007.08.20 11:05:00 - [171] Edited by: Satan''s Spawn on 20/08/2007 11:05:28 Originally by: Mephysto This is correct. Scan probes will now be able to detect cloaked ships. This update will be testable on Singularity when it next gets updated (probably on Tuesday since this is a holiday weekend here). and thus the point of a cloak is nulandvoid. Get a life CCP, wake up and smell the coffee. It's like inventing a fly, and then removing it's wings and calling it a walk. Either get rid of cloaks, or limit their use, or make them 'cloaks' (not just a fancy see-through effect).
Mitchman Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.08.20 11:59:00 - [172] Originally by: Mephysto This is correct. Scan probes will now be able to detect cloaked ships. This update will be testable on Singularity when it next gets updated (probably on Tuesday since this is a holiday weekend here). Sorry for saying it, but that's completely rediculous for some many reasons. I'm with verone on this one. If you do this, please just remove cloaks from the game and be done with it! New video: Pride, Honor & Retribution
Delichon	Posted - 2007.08.20 12:09:00 - [173] Edited by: Delichon on 20/08/2007 12:17:23 Originally by: Chewan Mesa Edited by: Chewan Mesa on 20/08/2007 10:29:23 If someone simply probes you out and waits at that spot until your safespot cycle restarts you warp into him. Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought there should be several iterations when probing - you first get a rough estimation of location, than a bit better, than better and so up to 5-15 km when you really got somebody. I mean: you use scanner - see me in X AU with Y degree angle, you narrow down the angle - I disappear you try Y degree again - no sign of me, for I am on another safe spot. Or you drop probes of 12 AU, analyse, see me, drop 3 AUs - I am somewhere else already. A lot of bookmarks in cycle may make searching for such a "hare" a very long process (and that is - IF you know for sure he is AFK and not just toying with you) - but again I may simply be not understanding something.
Red Harvest	Posted - 2007.08.20 12:27:00 - [174] Guess the Devs playing EVE were p**** off by some afk-cloakers themselfs and decided to do something about it. I certainly like it!
Synapse Archae Amarr Solarflare Heavy Industries Pure.	Posted - 2007.08.21 01:01:00 - [175] Covops and recons should not be touched. Fine as they are. The only issue here, really, is the cloaking battleship. Its silly. Even cloaking carriers and motherships, maybe, but cloaked ravens are silly and should be scannable. Balance it that way. - - - Originally by: CCP Garthagk While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
Ringcarmen	Posted - 2007.08.21 22:54:00 - [176] Just make the systemscanner be able to detected cloaked ships. That will clear out afk cloakers in sov 2 or 3 systems for alliances and NOT affect cloakers outside of Sov. 2 or 3. I think that would be the best way to solve it.
Bacci Galu Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.08.21 23:56:00 - [177] IMo Conventional non cloaking ships (aka claoker BS ect) should be probeable. Anyting with a covert ops cloak, should not, if ccp is going to make it so you can find covert ops cloak fitted ships (frig and recon) then why have these ships as you have just killed the very reason they exist. Cloaker morts who sit in there claoked BS and BC's, hell yeah they should be probeable (bye bye cloaker-goon :P ) Maker of thy sigs
Elipsis Gallente The Mission Guys	Posted - 2007.08.21 23:57:00 - [178] I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but I just thought of a possible solution for afk-cloaking that doesn't hurt other players: What if probes only picked up cloaked ships if they have been traveling on the same trajectory for the last 30 minutes or so. IE: Ship parked or just coasting would be noticed by a probe, but not anything that had changed courses recently. I guess this opens the door for AFK macros, and I can't think of a good storyline reason why such a dynamic would exist in game, but... shrug it would make people think twice about going afk. -... CEO and Founder of the Mission Guys
Boonaki Caldari Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.08.22 08:52:00 - [179] I think this nerf is more for the people who sit alts in enemy home systems 23/7. I'd rather see cloaks only scanable by POS scanning arrays. Fear the Ibis of doom! 113
Ildryn Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.08.29 06:41:00 - [180] Simple fix Cloaking ships: Able to scan T2 Covert ops cloak: Not able to be scanned Resolves the problem for Cover Ops and Recons :) Everyone else just gets hunted down and killed



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