Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .. 12 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Rod Blaine
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 20:44:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Sathamarid No GMs in non-NPC corps. Or put em all in the same corp. Having a dev with dev roles and rights in any player owned corp is a terrible idea -- conflict of interest.
There are no devs with dev rights or GM's with GM rights in player corps. There are just regular characters with no additional powers in player corps.
[center] Old blog |
iaikami
IAC Development and Deployment Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 20:46:00 -
[32]
playing in the game? absolutely. you cant effectively work on what you do not actually use.
Be involved in ANY large alliances? Political movements or major conflicts on any side or in any significant event (non GM fashion)? Absolutely not.
There are 2 basic classes here, Providers and Customers.
the 'current method' is unprofessional, creates clear conflicts of interest and will ALWAY be viewed as 'fixing the odds' by one side or another, even if nothing is really occurring. Human nature states that something WILL be occurring. "for every one you catch...."
CCP should take the high road, remove ALL employee accounts from any major corp/alliance, and expressly prohibit any information sharing between the two classes. This should be closely monitored to prevent any possible conflict of interest.
Eve's Strength was/is it's supposed 'player driven universe' even having the perception that there are 'strings being pulled' behind the scenes, in a manner that is partisan to one group or another is game breaking and unprofessional.
Faith has been broken. It is going to take serious changes and some very open admission and correction of the apparent conflicts of interest, both to level the playing field and restore the trust of the average CUSTOMER.
CCP (as the game Provider) should always remain above and impartial to the ENTIRE CUSTOMER base.
|
CrestoftheStars
Perkone
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 20:46:00 -
[33]
Edited by: CrestoftheStars on 27/05/2007 20:48:49 are you "yes they should be allowed people" even reading the answers?!
as i have said 4 times i think it is. there is NO reason that they play alongside every one else, they can create excatly the situation they like ingame and TEST it. if any one is saying something that could be a problem they create it and test it, if they want to test fleet battle they join a few on each side and i am SURE that no big alliance would have a problem with some dev/gm joining for a few battle to TEST something out.
and this is not a discussion if they are doing a good job so keep that out of it (and yer i think they are, as i have made pritty clear in the first tread, but please stay on subject)
btw i don't know of any other mmo where the dev/gm's are a big drive of the biggest alliance in the game. do you?! (should only be players deciding that not the "Gods" that tells us too)
Originally by: n0thing Yes, they should play the game imo. You cant reproduce things on test server as you can see on live one. You can run thousand tests, and then in certain live situation it will all act different.
Moreover, I would say that any mechanism can have hm...downsides? You cant create a perfect one. I can say that at the very least, devs do pretty much good job on the game, you may as well turn your views on other games when stuff added with no player-support to it, stuff changed without explnations, stuff buffed/nerfed without listening to player-base. Beleive me, each game has those above things, EVE to my view so far, got none of those. Ships & Modules prove it more then I can say.
___________________________________________ Humans take everything that is beautiful and sweet and turn it into something horrifying and ugly.
|
Pilok Shitfly
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 20:48:00 -
[34]
I would have said yes a while ago. But with the t20 incident and the recent problems makes me think it's better not to have devs and gm's play the game.
It's their job to make eve as good as it can get,for fun, go play another game.
I don't think that they have to play the game to be effective, but that's just my opinion.
|
Ysira
Amarr Mortis et Excidium Cold Steel Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 20:48:00 -
[35]
No, they should have no private accounts on TQ. They can play on Singularity all they want.
Having people with possible conflict of interests in a game is stupid. This should affect ISD members also, according to division ofc.
|
Dihania
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 20:49:00 -
[36]
Yeah. For one, best way to feel the community, not like reading the forums you know :) And second, best way to feel the game as it is, not as logs or whatever people say it is. So yes, as long as they do not cheat or influence the game in magical ways with the knowledge about the fact that there is no spoon, they should be allowed to play the game. ANONYMOUSLY TOO.
(now me waits for the precious things the GM promised on return for this "pro" post)
Null!!!! |
BlacksouI
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 20:50:00 -
[37]
Edited by: BlacksouI on 27/05/2007 20:49:48 The biggest problem with not allowing DEV to play the game is that they would make changes based on perception and imbalance b/c they would not have handon experiences of the problem but from the vocal group who make the big noise. The current problem with CCP is that they hand out only carrots to DEV/GM/ISD but not stick to ensure the professional integrity of the company. Let take t20 case for example, he was not fired b/c 1. he is a big asset to the company or 2. he has a good relationship with the BOSS. This case nothing IA chief can do, he can only keep him under radar and wait out to defuse the tension. As for case 1, it is time for CCP to hand out the big stick to any DEV/GM/ISD who ruin the reputation of the company. With the right catalyst, you can ALWAYS find another talented people.
As for professionalism, sometimes i feel CCP is being run by a group of amateurs. Every game on earth has a patch note section with a basic message of "Here is what we have improved to the game, and we would be glad to have you join the game or come back". When you dont have an active account with EVE and try to access EVE patch Note, do you know what message CCP will send you? "Blank you, we do not need you, we do not care about you"
P.S. so how many times do we have to create a trial account just to access the patch note to see what is in store for EVE?
|
Ira Theos
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 20:52:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Ira Theos on 27/05/2007 20:50:45 My personal thought about CCP personnel playing on Tranquility is that they should never be allowed to be part of any Corp or Alliance.
As a suggestion, perhaps CCP's people should be divided into their own special groups and allowed to fight each other in Empire space in such a way that they do not affect any of the "real" politics or assets in the game. They might even use these groups as the basis around which they carry out "managed" events. This would accomplish two things. First, they could get the necessary real-time stress testing thay are looking for and second, since it would occur in Empire, THE NEW PLAYERS IN EMPIRE WOULD GET A LOOK AT THE BIG SHIPS IN ACTION, which would give them a taste of what they might get involved in if they make the move to zero.
|
CrestoftheStars
Perkone
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 20:53:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Dihania Yeah. For one, best way to feel the community, not like reading the forums you know :) And second, best way to feel the game as it is, not as logs or whatever people say it is. So yes, as long as they do not cheat or influence the game in magical ways with the knowledge about the fact that there is no spoon, they should be allowed to play the game. ANONYMOUSLY TOO.
(now me waits for the precious things the GM promised on return for this "pro" post)
lol :P very amusing but pls post only with the main...
yer the problem is that they could not handle this and now all trust is broken between ccp and the gamers, which means that something have to be done where they REALLY shows that they will do anything to make sure that this can and will not happend again ___________________________________________ Humans take everything that is beautiful and sweet and turn it into something horrifying and ugly.
|
Thaelan
Deviance Inc
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 20:54:00 -
[40]
yes they should be allowed to play as normal characters, they'll do a better job at fixing things if they know the problems as other players do... should they have access to anything more than normal playerswhen playing as normal players? no, of course not, and that seems to be where the problem may be atm. ccp need to better moniter what their dev accounts do; when, where, how, whatever it is that is being done on them
|
|
Ira Theos
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 20:55:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Sathamarid No GMs in non-NPC corps. Or put em all in the same corp. Having a dev with dev roles and rights in any player owned corp is a terrible idea -- conflict of interest.
QFT
|
Petrothian Tong
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 20:58:00 -
[42]
*throws in 2 cents*
Well, they can play the game...... heck, i encouraged them to know their game....
but THEY SHOULDNT BE ALLOWED to do special favors for friends just cause of it.
keep work life and gaming life SEPERATE...
yes, a certain alliance can be friends with the Devs/staff... is okay to do that..
is NOT okay however, that a certain alliance can tell their dev /staff friend buddies to perform in game actions...
they SHOULD require to go though the petition systems.
but yeah, any change right now is pointless...
the way the T20 incident is handled badly damaged the trust, and now.. these allergations.
there is very little CCP can do to gain the trust back...
unless CCP brings out the big stick on those on its staff that abused their power...
but CCP doesnt do that, as seen in the last incident..
is too late now... (heck, when the info is leaked to many other sites.. even new players will find out..)
but hey, doesnt mean you still cant have fun as an empire pvers....
we/those guys couldnt care less...
-Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur |
CrestoftheStars
Perkone
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 20:58:00 -
[43]
i am still looking forwood to those dev/gm replay's of Why it's a good thing and why it's a bad thing ... looking instenst at the screen ___________________________________________ Humans take everything that is beautiful and sweet and turn it into something horrifying and ugly.
|
Petrothian Tong
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 21:02:00 -
[44]
Originally by: CrestoftheStars i am still looking forwood to those dev/gm replay's of Why it's a good thing and why it's a bad thing ... looking instenst at the screen
you will feel like a kid finding out that there is no Santa Claus soon enough..
is highly unlikely they will respond to this question.. is abit touchy... -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur |
Lab Technician071548
Astro-Support Services
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 21:04:00 -
[45]
I would like to be certain that CCPs system had very strong monitoring tools and policies in place creating a bright line that staff and volunteers may not cross. One without the other (tools to enforce and policy, respectively), is a fig leaf to cover a culture of permissiveness. I doubt we will have insight into whether or not these things are in place and, if so, if they are adequate.
For myself, I continue on in good faith that ass hattery will not be tolerated by CCP and that appropriate steps will be taken when and if misconduct has been found to have taken place. Those who already believe that CCPs internal affairs operations are just a bunch of BoD slaves will never be happy playing Eve again unless you can get over that mentality.
|
Sanctus Maleficus
Oberon Incorporated Oberon Imperial Governance
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 21:04:00 -
[46]
I think saying that developers (or other CCP employees) should not be able to play is absurd. Not only do they love the game as we players do, but they love the game from a creation standpoint.
Lets use sports cars as an analogy.
Its one thing to buy a sweet sports car, and drive it every day. Its another thing to build your own car from scratch. You can apply this logic to many other areas of life.
Also, you all should be careful about generalizing all "devs" as evil cheaters. You know its been one or two bad apples.
|
The Pointless
Gallente Lacks a Point Ltd
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 21:05:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Sanctus Maleficus Also, you all should be careful about generalizing all "devs" as evil cheaters. You know its been one or two bad apples.
Dingdingdingdingding, we have a winner! (In other words, I agree.)
-----------------------------------------------
"And I scream in a thousand voices!" |
Petrothian Tong
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 21:08:00 -
[48]
Originally by: The Pointless
Originally by: Sanctus Maleficus Also, you all should be careful about generalizing all "devs" as evil cheaters. You know its been one or two bad apples.
Dingdingdingdingding, we have a winner! (In other words, I agree.)
yeah, but it just take one bite into the rotten apple to make you think twice about the rest! lol -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur |
Sha Dar
eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 21:09:00 -
[49]
Yes, their should be Devs and GM's playing in the game.
Perhaps any actions related to those specific accounts, the ones with higher level access and powers, should be automatically logged to a ccp server dedicated to that purpose... logging higher level actions.
A "Master" log of that type Should sort out any number of potential problems in the future.
I can't imagine it would be that difficult to have the related client (gm/isd/dev versions) to auto log elsewhere rather than on the respective pc. -
|
CrestoftheStars
Perkone
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 21:14:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Petrothian Tong
Originally by: CrestoftheStars i am still looking forwood to those dev/gm replay's of Why it's a good thing and why it's a bad thing ... looking instenst at the screen
you will feel like a kid finding out that there is no Santa Claus soon enough..
is highly unlikely they will respond to this question.. is abit touchy...
well if they don't reply at all it's like saying "well yer your totally right and we have nothing that can convince you otherwise so we will just hide in the cornor untill we can lock and remove the tread without to many noticing it, as we do with any other that quitions our morale etc" ;P
but yer i will feel like a sad child ___________________________________________ Humans take everything that is beautiful and sweet and turn it into something horrifying and ugly.
|
|
Petrothian Tong
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 21:20:00 -
[51]
Originally by: CrestoftheStars
Originally by: Petrothian Tong
Originally by: CrestoftheStars i am still looking forwood to those dev/gm replay's of Why it's a good thing and why it's a bad thing ... looking instenst at the screen
you will feel like a kid finding out that there is no Santa Claus soon enough..
is highly unlikely they will respond to this question.. is abit touchy...
well if they don't reply at all it's like saying "well yer your totally right and we have nothing that can convince you otherwise so we will just hide in the cornor untill we can lock and remove the tread without to many noticing it, as we do with any other that quitions our morale etc" ;P
but yer i will feel like a sad child
*pets Crest's back*
there there, heres a banana.
and candied apple.
and I will tell you about the Easter Bunny later. -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur |
CrestoftheStars
Perkone
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 21:23:00 -
[52]
Originally by: The Pointless
Originally by: Sanctus Maleficus Also, you all should be careful about generalizing all "devs" as evil cheaters. You know its been one or two bad apples.
Dingdingdingdingding, we have a winner! (In other words, I agree.)
comparing to sports cars and saying that you shouldn't generalise.. is this really your attribute to the post?
for once i am NOT saying the dev's are ****ups that don't know what they are doing or in anyway slamming on the devs or gms. i think they are doing a really good job WHEN they are doing their job.
i am saying they shouldn't be allowed to involve themselves personally in a corp/alliance since this will be a problem with what they should do on there job. this is the problem. if they love it from a creater point then be the creaters and stop giving people the chance to seriusly hurt your work.
one time can be unlucky or dump. to times is just stupid and without thought. but if there comes a third, this means that you clearly don't care about the misuse and your not going to do anything at all...
the trust people have in ccp right now is exstemely low over the way they handled the situation and that this can even happend. that they arn't going to take drastic mathoeds to make sure it never happends again, well.. most people do not have the slightest trust in them, and most people don't even care trying to fight BoB because we are sure that they will cheat again..
as i pointed. 1 time, stupid. 2 times, unresponsible and repeatedly stupid. 3 times, no thought or morale and will without doubt be done again, because of the fact that there is no consequence and they have gotten the tasted for it..
a succes will always repeat itselve ___________________________________________ Humans take everything that is beautiful and sweet and turn it into something horrifying and ugly.
|
Mal Renolds
Caldari Team America World Cops
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 21:32:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Mal Renolds on 27/05/2007 21:31:40 The Game developers and isd have abused there rights so many times its very tempting to say put them all on the test server only as players .
The crap that has been pulled by Devs and isd folk has to end . This recent crap stirred up by goonfleet or the crap with Bob isnt good for the game period
And seeing as Devs and isd folk cant help but cheat and favor the alliance they are in as its human nature I dont think goonfleet is whining about how unfair it is , they just want us on there side They are ****ed no developer is cheating for them IMO
|
Krugerrand
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 21:34:00 -
[54]
Devs/GMs who play the game have regular accounts, you cannot control whether or not they play the game and don't expect to.
Their "dev accounts" exist only to resolve bugs/issues in game, they need these accounts to improve the game. The two types of accounts are independant of each other.
Most of the issues raised have had no actual effect on game events.
And to the one who said "if a dev/gm wants to play the game, they should find another job". If you don't like devs playing the game, find another game, as it doesn't bother me.
|
Janu Hull
Caldari Order of Z Industries
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 21:34:00 -
[55]
I'm all for Dev players. Hell, in SWG we begged them to play it to understand our grievances from our perspective. Not that it did a lot, but then, this was SOE.
One thing the Devs who did play did was guard their identities in game religiously. None were in player associations, none were involved in server politics (that were ever discovered). They played the game strictly in an unofficial capacity and in the shadow of server politics. Very few of us even knew what servers any of them played on. It only really came to light at first because a Dev actually asked for help with on the forums under their "red name" official account rather than their player account (he was in the art department, not a programmer).
That's the kind of thing I'm cool with. They're in the trenches, no admin tools, no GM support, playing like the rest of us. When you get Devs with admin tools tinkering because they're up to their eyeballs in server politics and have a stake in it, its an automatic conflict of interest. If its a GM or whatever your ingame operational staff starts getting into it, you've got REAL problems, because that's going beyond any conceivable edge because of intimate knowledge of any mechanics, but now you're seriously tilting the balance.
That will kill even the best of games.
This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless... |
The Pointless
Gallente Lacks a Point Ltd
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 21:35:00 -
[56]
I think you need to read Sanctus' post AGAIN.
One or two bad apples does not mean that the whole company is likely or will commit any wrongdoing for definite.
And I will repeat this again: The current allegations have not been proven, admitted, or fully investigated. So don't speak of that as a "2nd time" as it were deffo true, because nobody knows the facts.
-----------------------------------------------
"And I scream in a thousand voices!" |
Neves Cibek
Free Mercenaries Union FATAL Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 21:37:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Bullitnutz Sure, goonswarm blah blah blah, there's a reason we don't ALLOW anyone other than a regular player with no special ties to CCP in our alliance. That reason is legitimacy.
How do you know there are no such players in your alliance/corp? They aren't exactly going to tell you in a recruitment interview :)
The Devs play this game like normal folk, and I reckon thats what makes this game so good - and it is good. They've already stated somewhere - I remember reading it - that they only play Eve on their personal accounts in their spare time - they spend the hours they are employed working as Devs and then clock off work and play as their other characters. I don't see what the problem is with that - you as the OP are saying that we are paying them to develop the game - and during the hours that 'we' pay them to work, that is what they are doing.
If they just sat back and didn't interact with us lowly serfs, how would they get an idea as to what everyone really thinks, how people play, and what they like and don't like and how to improve the game. Sure people post all over the forums, but the best way to see anything for yourself is to actually do it yourself, and that is what these guys (and gals) are doing, and I respect them for that, because I sure as heck know that I'm not able to do their job.
|
Gil Panzar
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 21:45:00 -
[58]
No staff of CCP should involve themselves in the live game. Float around invisible. Make an independent newb pilot. Play test server. Check statistics. Ask questions on test forums.
Stay out of the live game. The staff has caused more problems than solved while they're involved with in-game corporations. In fact, if you make an internal affairs department, make solid framework for conduct. Has any policy or framework been communicated?
|
Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 21:46:00 -
[59]
Originally by: CrestoftheStars [ when you pay for a product you are right to say "i do not which that you do something that will advantually lead to a misuse. as i have pointed out (and this is how they actually do it in most mmo's) i am not saying that they shouldn't play the game, but that they should NOT be in it as a player, but only as a dev or gm as we are paying them and exspecting them to do.
i think you misunderstand what you pay for. You pay for the privilege to play the game, no rights can be claimed as laid out by the EULA and law in most western countries. The only right you have is to stop paying for the game.
Now, i do understand your pov, but please understand that it's never going to change, devs are going to keep playing this game (and imho that's a good thing). They are what's driving this game, they know what makes us drool, because it makes them drool too.
I know what your driving at, playing as devs instead as players sounds great in theory, but is rather difficult in practice. They already have a changed perspective, they already play the game from the pov of a dev. But understand that when you work on such a project for X*40 hours a week on such a project, chances are that you going to have your good and bad days, strong and weak days. Now that there's a IA division at CCP there is all the more reason not to do anything that's going to come back and bite you in the ass, it's just that little bit of extra reinforcement that doesn't make devs stray from their role. Now you can claim that the IA division is nothing but a joke, but if that's the case, why would you ever believe claims made by CCP that "From now on devs will never be able to play Eve again."? A lot of folks don't trust CCP. That's their right, but why they keep playing this game is beyond me...
In short, why not believe in CCP and the folks that work there to make the best of the situation, it's not as if we can set their policy...
ps. It's also not smart to **** of the 'Gods' by holding a petition so that they would have to stop playing the game they love...
|
FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2007.05.27 21:47:00 -
[60]
Devs should be allowed to play the game, there should just be limits on who/where/how they are distributed.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .. 12 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |