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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Nai Ling
Amarr Middle Finger Technology Ghosts Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.05.31 02:05:00 -
[661]
Originally by: Janya Rykayn A rich corporation taking legal action to silence an apparent whistleblower. How's that going to look?
There's nothing to blow the whistle against. They didn't get their way, and now they're going to act like little children. This isn't the first time that GoonSwarm has done this in a game, and it certainly won't be the last.
At least I found my new signature for the time being. _______________________________________________
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Nina Kharn
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Posted - 2007.05.31 02:20:00 -
[662]
Look i dont give a dam about the goons or the allegations ( no offence ment goonys) but I do care about this Direct line to Devs out side of the main channels that the rest of us have to follow.
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Zylatis
Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.31 02:25:00 -
[663]
A good open letter, well written. Free of lose canons that this forum provides for a dime a dozen, which is inevidable. Its a pity the discussions couldn't have been conducted in a similar way. CCP would do well to heed that letter.
-Z
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Mister Spanky
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.31 02:49:00 -
[664]
Originally by: Hugo Maxum ok, so i notice the bumping the dread is missing the time and date on it for submission, So that still does not answer, Did he msn the dev or petition. This has not been answered. I see no time and date on that petition, but there is on the pos one.
Yeah, funny that isn't it?
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FatHed
Eye of the Abyss
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Posted - 2007.05.31 03:00:00 -
[665]
Quote: Yeah, funny that isn't it?
Yes and no, while it does leave open the possibility that the petition was made after the fact, it also leaves open the possibility that the CCP employee informed the BoB member that he'd need to submit a petition. Either way, why is that important to you?
Personally, CCP did what I wanted, which was to post the logs. I thank them for that, and I consider the issue closed.
Now, since goonswarm was so invested in the allegations, and since CCP has debunked those, and made allegations of their own, I'm officially asking that GS disclose any emails pertaining to an orchestrated FUD attack on an alliance scale.
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Mister Spanky
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.05.31 04:55:00 -
[666]
Originally by: FatHed Edited by: FatHed on 31/05/2007 03:06:50
Quote: Yeah, funny that isn't it?
Yes and no, while it does leave open the possibility that the petition was made after the fact, it also leaves open the possibility that the CCP employee informed the BoB member that he'd need to submit a petition. Either way, why is that important to you?
You miss the point. CCP posted screenshots of several petitions which included dates and times. Only when it comes to the screenshot where the date and time is the most important factor they chose not to include that information. Now while I'm prepared to accept that such an omission could have been a genuine oversight, it doesn't exactly fill me with confidence, especially when the rest of their response was so disingenuous and twisted the facts so badly.
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Trelennen
Disturbed Hoggs
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Posted - 2007.05.31 05:31:00 -
[667]
Originally by: Mister Spanky
Originally by: FatHed Edited by: FatHed on 31/05/2007 03:06:50
Quote: Yeah, funny that isn't it?
Yes and no, while it does leave open the possibility that the petition was made after the fact, it also leaves open the possibility that the CCP employee informed the BoB member that he'd need to submit a petition. Either way, why is that important to you?
You miss the point. CCP posted screenshots of several petitions which included dates and times. Only when it comes to the screenshot where the date and time is the most important factor they chose not to include that information. Now while I'm prepared to accept that such an omission could have been a genuine oversight, it doesn't exactly fill me with confidence, especially when the rest of their response was so disingenuous and twisted the facts so badly.
Additionally (I also posted that in the comment thread on Arkanon's blog), that petition which supposedly reports Raekhan for bumping dread and has no timestamp, also doesn't mention the name of the ISD reporter involved (alledgedly Raekhan).
How then did they (CCP) figured it was him? And so fast? Maybe because the petition has been written afterwards, after Orange Species contacted his dev friend and Admiral Chamrajnagar did popped onto ISD IRC Channel, and OS simply forgot to put the name in, as he had given it to his dev friend anyway, and the petition was "just for the show"?
Originally by: kieron If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs.
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Camilo Cienfuegos
Caldari EP0CH
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Posted - 2007.05.31 05:46:00 -
[668]
Quote: How then did they (CCP) figured it was him? And so fast? Maybe because the petition has been written afterwards, after Orange Species contacted his dev friend and Admiral Chamrajnagar did popped onto ISD IRC Channel, and OS simply forgot to put the name in, as he had given it to his dev friend anyway, and the petition was "just for the show"?
It's no more ridiculous than the idea of Goonswarm coordinating an attack against CCP. Unfortunately, we're at another stalemate: people will believe what they want to believe. Until some conclusive evidence comes forward, this discussion is moot.
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Supermarket Su
Amarr Hedion University
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Posted - 2007.05.31 05:48:00 -
[669]
Originally by: Trelennen
Originally by: Mister Spanky
Originally by: FatHed Edited by: FatHed on 31/05/2007 03:06:50
Quote: Yeah, funny that isn't it?
Yes and no, while it does leave open the possibility that the petition was made after the fact, it also leaves open the possibility that the CCP employee informed the BoB member that he'd need to submit a petition. Either way, why is that important to you?
You miss the point. CCP posted screenshots of several petitions which included dates and times. Only when it comes to the screenshot where the date and time is the most important factor they chose not to include that information. Now while I'm prepared to accept that such an omission could have been a genuine oversight, it doesn't exactly fill me with confidence, especially when the rest of their response was so disingenuous and twisted the facts so badly.
Additionally (I also posted that in the comment thread on Arkanon's blog), that petition which supposedly reports Raekhan for bumping dread and has no timestamp, also doesn't mention the name of the ISD reporter involved (alledgedly Raekhan).
How then did they (CCP) figured it was him? And so fast? Maybe because the petition has been written afterwards, after Orange Species contacted his dev friend and Admiral Chamrajnagar did popped onto ISD IRC Channel, and OS simply forgot to put the name in, as he had given it to his dev friend anyway, and the petition was "just for the show"?
This is the one that didn't get away, like T20, just imagine how many similar incidents did get away ? sickening
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Alois Hammer
Minmatar Hammers Slammers Slammer's Republic
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Posted - 2007.05.31 05:58:00 -
[670]
Edited by: Alois Hammer on 31/05/2007 05:59:50 sigh i started playing this game last year on a advice of a friend . its an awesome game i love it!! but till the stink made by Goonswarm hit the fan i have never posted on the forums. i took my time reading all 160 pages of the post(8 hours )and after looking at all of the info , sideposts and the other sites it has become clear . there is something funny in the kingdom of CCP....... up till now i never knew about this T20 scandal , i had to go thru a whole lot of posts by both sides till i could get a picture of that event . amazing. i have been playin the game with my head in the sand . and then the admissions of several BOB memmbers of having personal links to devs , for their own benefit .CCP engaging in the most unbeliveable display of cover-up , smack down and (!) talkback to their own customer base??? are you on depressants or something?? i have never even imagined in my most wildest dreams i would hear , or read such a blatant display of unprofessionalism , it took a combined effort of an entire in-game alliance to peel back the layers of bull that the company has wrapped itself as a safety blanket . and BOB.... jeezzzz you could have found a bunch of guys in -game with a lot more sense then them , i mean sure if your gonna cheat BE SMART!!! dont go around abusing the system then proudly (!) admit it for all to know , its stupid its vile but most of all it degrades the others in your alliance that are proly good guys and excellent players. quite frankly your too stupid to have that kind of power in this beautifull game . well it was beautifull till you shown for what it is . its just like a dead-end job , theres no reason for anyone to continue playing it once you know you cant at least try playing on a even field when the other side has all the cheats . my nickle
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Tharrn
Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2007.05.31 09:27:00 -
[671]
Mod-alert - as the BoD sigs et al. were all deleted during the t20 crisis it might be fair to delete these as well. Flamebait and such.
Ceterum censeo 'Concordia' esse delendam.
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Camilo Cienfuegos
Caldari EP0CH
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Posted - 2007.05.31 09:37:00 -
[672]
Quote: Flamebait and such.
If so I'll gladly remove mine, although I don't perceive it that way. The BoD signatures that were removed were pure flamebait, with no specific message. The "Buzz Off" signatures have a very clear message that I doubt needs spelling out.
If there is anything contentious here, it'd be that bit on the right I suppose...
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.05.31 09:43:00 -
[673]
Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos
Quote: Flamebait and such.
If so I'll gladly remove mine, although I don't perceive it that way. The BoD signatures that were removed were pure flamebait, with no specific message. The "Buzz Off" signatures have a very clear message that I doubt needs spelling out.
If there is anything contentious here, it'd be that bit on the right I suppose...
Signatures calling for other players to leave the game, and you call that not flamebait
In any case your signature is illegal since it doesn't mention your name/corp/alliance anyway.
signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected]) |
Camilo Cienfuegos
Caldari EP0CH
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Posted - 2007.05.31 09:54:00 -
[674]
Edited by: Camilo Cienfuegos on 31/05/2007 09:54:29 Edited by: Camilo Cienfuegos on 31/05/2007 09:53:20 That's not my perception of it: Disbanding the alliance yes, but I'd never be so presumptuous to demand someone leave the game.
Encouraging players to leave the game would inevitably reduce the revenue flow to CCP, which in turn would eat into their profit margin and eventually cast doubt on the financial viability of the whole project. I'm not so short sighted that I would wish such a thing to happen to Eve.
Hell, that's the whole reason I have this sig; it's contesting that a specific player group are willing just that to happen
Quote: In any case your signature is illegal since it doesn't mention your name/corp/alliance anyway.
I thought that was only in CAOD? (in which I no longer post)
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.05.31 10:14:00 -
[675]
Originally by: Camilo Cienfuegos Edited by: Camilo Cienfuegos on 31/05/2007 09:54:29 Edited by: Camilo Cienfuegos on 31/05/2007 09:53:20 That's not my perception of it: Disbanding the alliance yes, but I'd never be so presumptuous to demand someone leave the game.
Encouraging players to leave the game would inevitably reduce the revenue flow to CCP, which in turn would eat into their profit margin and eventually cast doubt on the financial viability of the whole project. I'm not so short sighted that I would wish such a thing to happen to Eve.
Hell, that's the whole reason I have this sig; it's contesting that a specific player group are willing just that to happen
Quote: In any case your signature is illegal since it doesn't mention your name/corp/alliance anyway.
I thought that was only in CAOD? (in which I no longer post)
Nope, CAOD rules specify you need to have the corp/alliance visible under your avatar picture, AFAIK signatures have to comply with the name/corp/alliance thingy (think only 1 of the 3 though) wherever you are posting. signature removed - please contact us to find out why (include the URL of your sig) - Jacques([email protected]) |
Le Cardinal
ECP Rogues The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2007.05.31 10:52:00 -
[676]
woohaa, lot of blamgame going on here. Alot of you should step away from the keyboard and take a long deep breath. Try to be constructive instead of destructive.
As far as Sharkbait and DS1 incident. Im pretty sure that this is handled properly by ccp.
What arkanon left out is the msn dev <> Bob topic. Maybe its still under investigation?
Wether certain BoB members are friends with a dev is to a certain extent np, as long as the dev dont misuse this relationship. One does not ruin a friendship because of a game. Im sure that the BoB members in question are aware why the community see problems with this. That doesnt mean that bob cheat. But i must add that it might be an idea for BoB leaders to ensure that noone in their corp use sigs and banners about ongoing investigation and allegations that provoce and insult the community. It might be very fun to BoB and their friends, but it only make the community furious. This should be a bannable action along with any flaming on these boards.
Nevertheless its important that ccp make a public statement about these kind of relationships, and make it clear that this do not give BoB/others an advantage.
If it is proven that the Dev in question have fed BoB with intel, ccp will no doubt take neccessary steps. And im pretty sure that both ccp and the dev in question are quite aware that sooner or later corruption will reach the light and strive to take measures against such illegal actions from Gm's and devs. After all this is what they work with and live off, and any kind of corruption might have serious impact on their income and reputation.
Chill down a bit ppl. Try to be constructive and stop the flaming. It only make both sides look like fools.
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NereSky
Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.05.31 12:08:00 -
[677]
Originally by: Jadiin
Originally by: NereSky Id like to say im happy with the conclusion but im not; the screenshots provided could be of any petition and reason as to why Sharkbait of all people had to enter the corp in question. Nothing has been investigated it seems just something thrown together (the investigation part) and more time spent in writing up a disclaimer. looks like we are stuck with certain Alliances getting privaleges over others - well i for one am out of here, as far as playing this game in a political enviroment and creating 'empires' s concerned this game is fixed. enjoy your prowess BOB although all what you have attained and will attain is through cheating - nothing more.
looks like the years ive spent in this game has gone to waste and utterly ruined. OH and BOB maybe not now but in a future date more evidence will surface (only so much can be swept under the rug) which will finally force CCP to remove you from the game , until then ill keep an eye out and laugh at you. to CCP - your game is Borked, the dream was fine but the moment you used the player base to help run it , thats when all neutrality and customer care left.
How do you sleep at night with all that paranoia? Did you know CCP is also affiliated with the FBI and the CIA. Oh yes and BoB has msn links with those agencies as well. Scary stuff eh?
so are you professionally medically qualified to diagnose 'paranoia'? doubt it somehow, im entitled to my opinion whether its groundless or otherwise but what inflames me more is people such as yourself that makes personnal accusations based on their own opinion. yes most of the allegations have either been admitted or made to be groundless fair enough but im still committed to the opion something is seriously wrong somewhere in BOB even ignoring the allegations their senseless wind up of the community at large is enough for me to doubt their word especially when they argued the t20 incident as outright lies then fell flat on their face. nothing can make me leave Eve as its still the best game out there but it is seriously flawed at a certain level and unless its proven there is 'no dev/ccp' involvement apart from their word(their word is untrustworthy and meaning less) ill continue to beleive otherwise.
all it means is ill play this game at a differant level and not get involved with 0.0 wars ect till the game has been levelled.
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Jazeki
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Posted - 2007.05.31 12:20:00 -
[678]
Originally by: Alerion Soooo... just to get us back on track here:
We have had representatives from CCP comment on 3 out of 4 allegations and one remains.
The only one that really matters in my opinion and I hope there will be an answer from CCP soon.
Did Orange Species of BoB talk to his "friend" at CCP via MSN or any other private channel and asked him to boot the ISD reporter?
I think it is a simple question, a simple yes or no will do for me.
That'd do for me too, really the only bit I was concerned about.
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E Vile
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.31 12:47:00 -
[679]
There is NO WAY this game is ever going to be fair with devs in player corps.
How are you going to petition a bug in your POS if your nervous the dev fixing might be in your enemies corp?
How can you promise there will NEVER be ANY conflict of interest.
Say your a dev that is responding to a bugged station (just for example), what if it's a enemy of your corp? How can a dev remain impartial?
Make devs special characters if they want to be ingame. City of heroes has a good idea with that. Make them the special leaders of npc factions, or something that can regain the fairplay this game lacks.
Would be really cool to have events based around these special dev characters.
I see no possible way this game can be on fair grounds with devs in player corps. Make the test center open to dev as players, give us a new dev free universe, or make them special characters that do not effect player corps, but add what can be alot of fun, and draw to the game.
If nothing is changed, this problem is not going anywhere, but I promise alot of players will. "The key to immortality is to first live a life worth remembering."
Shohadaku New York Metal |
Tempus Fugitive
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2007.05.31 13:27:00 -
[680]
Originally by: E Vile There is NO WAY this game is ever going to be fair with devs in player corps. ... Make devs special characters if they want to be ingame. City of heroes has a good idea with that. Make them the special leaders of npc factions, or something that can regain the fairplay this game lacks. ... I see no possible way this game can be on fair grounds with devs in player corps. Make the test center open to dev as players, give us a new dev free universe, or make them special characters that do not effect player corps, but add what can be alot of fun, and draw to the game.
I agree. CCP (and corps with Dev members) keep insisting that this game can not exist if their devs aren't in player corps. That's simply rationalizing something they want. I think its terribly short-sighted.
The role of GMs in RPGs is to provide content, not to participate in it. The running of the game should be reward enough. Draw a line and get on one side or the other - run the game or play the game, not both. ----
And no I'm not an alt. |
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Abar
Gallente Blackguard Brigade Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.31 13:31:00 -
[681]
Originally by: E Vile There is NO WAY this game is ever going to be fair with devs in player corps.
How are you going to petition a bug in your POS if your nervous the dev fixing might be in your enemies corp?
How can you promise there will NEVER be ANY conflict of interest.
Say your a dev that is responding to a bugged station (just for example), what if it's a enemy of your corp? How can a dev remain impartial?
Make devs special characters if they want to be ingame. City of heroes has a good idea with that. Make them the special leaders of npc factions, or something that can regain the fairplay this game lacks.
Would be really cool to have events based around these special dev characters.
I see no possible way this game can be on fair grounds with devs in player corps. Make the test center open to dev as players, give us a new dev free universe, or make them special characters that do not effect player corps, but add what can be alot of fun, and draw to the game.
If nothing is changed, this problem is not going anywhere, but I promise alot of players will.
+1
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Death Embodied
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Posted - 2007.05.31 13:41:00 -
[682]
Originally by: Nina Kharn Look i dont give a dam about the goons or the allegations ( no offence ment goonys) but I do care about this Direct line to Devs out side of the main channels that the rest of us have to follow.
Me too, and noticeably absent from the Dev response is any comment whatsoever about that instant messenger direct line to the Devs for BoB issue.
Makes me feel sort of weird that some group or sub-group in the game can talk directly to the Devs in real time and the rest of us have to file a pettition and wait days or a week - and I'd be really freaked out by it if I was a member of some group or corp enaged in opposition to BoB. A commitment from CCP to ban that practice was and is warranted if for no other reason than to remove the appearance of impropriety.
What I'd do if it was me is force the removal of all instant messaging software from company computers.
Whatever the truth about the Devs needing to play the game to be able to do their jobs there is no reason they cannot use the same tools everyone else has to use to communicate in game. If those tools are insufficient then the tools obviously need to be fixed rather than some elite group being given a direct line to the developers.
Whatever. I really don't care that much about it and I'm glad they've decided nothing untoward was going on. Its up to CCP to make darn sure that never happens and that they take corrective action to ensure nobody can even reasonably suspect misbehavior.
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Akrinos LuCont
Gallente Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.31 13:43:00 -
[683]
Edited by: Akrinos LuCont on 31/05/2007 13:42:55
complaint filed.
job noted.
report released for public viewing.
ats it - guys.
-great job CCP (Arkenon)
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Tharrn
Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2007.05.31 13:45:00 -
[684]
I am sure Devs ARE playing in other games, too. They are just clever enough to not let anyone know, use private email addresses only, and to make sure they remain 'John Doe' rather than 'GM Eod'. Or at least they somehow manage to not get caught :P GMs/Devs in games like WoW can do little to abuse their powers other than to spawn themselves items though, as it's static themepark games. As such comparisons are probably invalid anyways as EVE is sort of unique.
The line between 'work' and 'private' has to be absolute in a dynamic, player driven game like EVE or ****te like this will continue to happen. It's too late though I fear unless they rename all their chars, fake an employment history for their chars and 'start over' without actually starting new characters *shrugs*.
The cries of 'favoritism' won't ever end as is. If BoB would disband people would just claim 'the Devs all joined Poweralliance Y now and continue playing favorites there'. Whoever is on top of the foodchain will get the blame.
Ceterum censeo 'Concordia' esse delendam.
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Rolinthor
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Posted - 2007.05.31 15:04:00 -
[685]
Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate The official Goonswarm reply is too long to be pasted in one post, and would infact take several posts. Here is the link:
http://goonfleet.com/reply_to_CCP.html
I have to say, this response strikes the right tone for the most part. I hope both the Devs at CCP and the Goonys will think long and hard and figure out a way to fix the player-dev relationships in this great game.
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Kara Mori
Finis Lumen
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Posted - 2007.06.02 07:44:00 -
[686]
Edited by: Kara Mori on 02/06/2007 07:47:06 ..
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Miasia
Konstrukteure der Zukunft
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Posted - 2007.06.02 22:31:00 -
[687]
Originally by: Rolinthor
Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate ... http://goonfleet.com/reply_to_CCP.html
I have to say, this response strikes the right tone for the most part. I hope both the Devs at CCP and the Goonys will think long and hard and figure out a way to fix the player-dev relationships in this great game.
I see it the same way you do. But honestly i doubt CCP will do anything constructive. They will ignore it, delete it, moderate it away. Keep it under the rug. Try another simple explanation ...
There was a time i disliked the goons, but these issues could happen to every alliance within Eve, who has no "special" line to CCP.
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Icome4u
Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L
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Posted - 2007.06.05 03:51:00 -
[688]
Hmm... of all the Alliances this could of happen, it happened to GoonFleet that are about to be wiped out of the face of the map... wierd
Goonfleet, keep the PvP in-game please ______
Originally by: Vyger If I lose connection while walking around a station will my avatar run off in a random direction and go hide in a corner?
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g0nadzintherain
Cirrius Technologies O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.06.05 17:00:00 -
[689]
Originally by: Steph Wing
Originally by: Kaplanelle
Originally by: CCP kieron The question that you should be asking is why this became an issue with the corporation three weeks after their player submitted a petition.
Whoa, back up there pal. That's not the tone you take with paying customers, ever. People can have honest misunderstandings, and CCP shouldn't be alledging anything different unless they have absolute proof otherwise.
This was a customer service failure on CCPs part by not having enough customer contact. Why you're takings such a customer hostile stance makes me wonder what your employer is thinking allowing the community manager take up that kind of attitude.
/signed
/signed Thank you, g0nz
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Rolinthor
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Posted - 2007.06.05 19:32:00 -
[690]
Originally by: Rolinthor
Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate The official Goonswarm reply is too long to be pasted in one post, and would infact take several posts. Here is the link:
http://goonfleet.com/reply_to_CCP.html
I have to say, this response strikes the right tone for the most part. I hope both the Devs at CCP and the Goonys will think long and hard and figure out a way to fix the player-dev relationships in this great game.
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