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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
UmnaHun
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Posted - 2007.05.28 05:44:00 -
[121]
It is going to be more and more interesting why nowadays CCP have so many "groundless" issues flying around in the community...
Guys, you should really consider to pull out your member staff from the game! You need the reasons? Please see below: - developers, gms are fully aware of the game mechanics (BOB POS Bowling) - GMs & developers are not supervised on the necessary level (Blueprints to a friend)
And who knows what "misconducts" will happen in the future?! Or happened already, but not revealed...
My question is: How far these guys have to go to wake you up CCP?
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.05.28 05:44:00 -
[122]
I don't see what the problem is. Events are like this because they can't be any other way. You can't have an event if you don't know what the possible paths for that event are.
Here's an event! Some guy takes another guy hostage in space! The players can participate and help save the guy. Uh no! He'll either A) die or B) get saved. Might as well not participate because the outcome is predetermined as A or B. ---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
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Namingway
Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters
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Posted - 2007.05.28 05:47:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Sentinel Eeex
Originally by: Aegieal
So if i know a dev in real life, and an ISD member breaks the rules in game, and call him up on the phone to ask for help, what is wrong with that?
Please, tell me just one thing:
WHICH rule did he break?
I spent some time and found rules on this website. Did you? Do you have any idea what rule he has broken?
Just a guess, but perhaps ISD have additional rules they have to follow.
You're talking about someone who can teleport ANYWHERE, in a ship that has 99.99% resists, and a peak shield regen that is GREATER than its total shields (with skills that frig is 6250 shields and 1.5sec recharge iirc, giving it a 10000 shield/sec peak regen).
I would hope that ISD have additional rules, and regulations that we don't know about.
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Setana Manoro
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.28 05:50:00 -
[124]
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 28/05/2007 05:51:58 Edited by: Setana Manoro on 28/05/2007 05:51:41 RL analogies in a MMORPG = bad, so please let them die.
Fact of the matter is that either way this goes, it blows. If no proof is found than more players will become convinced that IA is just the new "STFU" thing CCP came up with. If someone is found guilty, a ban is given maybe, then some faith is restored. This is how the situation looks if you take right, wrong out of the equation and you leave business in.
PS: On the bright side, Kieron finally appears to have asked for English support before posting. :) --------------------------------------------------
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Namingway
Important Yet Underrated Video Game Characters
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Posted - 2007.05.28 05:51:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu Edited by: Astarte Nosferatu on 28/05/2007 03:34:57
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu
You and your company are one of the accused. Give us one good reason why we should believe a word you say?
Honestly in the end, there is no foolproof "proof" CCP can provide for anything--they could always be accused of faking it, since they are indeed the game developers.
In the end, either you believe them, or you don't. Its not a matter of believing a single employee; its a matter of believing the official company line. If you think CCP as a whole is lying, you cannot trust any "proof" given to you.
And perhaps here it is the same thing. When you decide to play EVE, you're betting that CCP's goal is, in the end, to be honest and fair, and that any bias is a result of specific people rather than a company policy. If in the end the goal of the company is not to be fair, then any proof given to you cannot be taken as valid. Screenshots can be doctored, databases can be changed, and in the end, all one can do is take CCP's word, or not take it.
Or an independant and respected audit company could give CCP a good cleaning? CCP are the accused, and their own judges. No matter what they say, people will not believe them. If they want to save what's left of their reputation, they better start working like a real company should be working.
And what group would you suggest?
And you'll find many 'respected' groups are frauds. Look at Al Gore. One of the biggest scam artists in the world, but he's respected by hundreds of millions because he does it so well.
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pator gurl
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Posted - 2007.05.28 05:57:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Setana Manoro
PS: I thought you weren't in the IA division.
kieron is the head of ISD. Events and Aurora fall under his jurisdiction. Probably that's why he made the post.
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Rekam Yenom
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:03:00 -
[127]
The problem for me is the assitance to a corp that is being "suggested" or not yet proved.
If BoB is the largest and most powerful Alliance and if they stay that way fairly I have no problem. In fact it is a great reason to try and topple them. But if they are there unfairly then there is no point playing and I am wasting time and money.
The recent problems and "suggestions" are making it look more and more like BoB has CCP in their pocket (yes I know this is not true for all). CCP has brought these problems onto themselves by being vague and covering things up. This has caused the lack of trust we see now.
I also have no problems with Staff / Developers etc from being in the game IF they are on the same footing as the players and if they keep up and coming events to themselves. Wearing 2 hats is difficult The player and Developer hats tend to get mixed but that is CCP's issue to deal with.
Being friends with Developers is fine and MSN'ing your friend to say sort this out is ok. BUT the developer should have replied with a log a petition and I will see if I can fast track it or get someone onto it WITHOUT acting on it immediately as that puts the rest of the players at a disadvantage. CCP needs to follow their own reals that they set down and at the moment it looks like they are not doing that.
Time will tell.
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Baun
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:16:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Baun on 28/05/2007 06:15:11 Just so I understand the cryptic implications of the non-information posted by the OP, CCP denies that events are rigged in any way? Or does CCP simply deny that this particular event was rigged?
Events are and always have been rigged. Probably not all of them, but a great great many of them. I find it very hard to believe that CCP would be at such an arms length as to actually believe that that is not true.
Given, however, that in light of serious allegations *literally nothing* was done by the "IA department" and no new information was released in order to be "transparent", my only conclusion can be that CCP is well aware of what is going on and is merely lieing about it, just like they lied in the wake of the last scandal.
This game was already becoming pointless to play as CCP transformed it into a job with the increasing time commitments required to perform basic alliance gameplay. It will become a joke if CCP doesn't wakeup and deal with its very serious fraternization issues, most of which stem from the ridiculous powers they give to people they KNOW PRIMARILY PLAY THE GAME AS NORMAL PLAYERS.
You will lose your product and your reputation if you continue to lie to your player base and do nothing about serious problems. Clearly you do not care about us, but you should care about that.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Baun
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:20:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
The attitude that "IA is only good if they turn up what I want them to turn up" is pretty useless.
Don't be disingenuous man.
What the IA department actually "turns up" is mostly irrelevant. Then we can judge whether the IA department is the crock that it appears to be.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:23:00 -
[130]
ROFL.. I go away from the forums for a few months because they became too much of a tool for the in game political hacks and come back to the same thing.. Back to EVE it seems.. Enjoy your forum metagaming guys..
Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
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Tobin Blood
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:25:00 -
[131]
Its sad to see this kind of distrust and bickering between a company and its subscribers. I have always felt that when a company lets its own people play the game there WILL be abuses of power. A person can always say they will uphold the trust they are given, but it RARELY EVER happens.
As soon as I started playing, a lot of players online and in the game complained about certain "Groups" being stacked by Dev's playing in these "Groups".
Mind you I'm playing to have fun I enjoy the aspects and the design of the game, but the way things have transpired with the alliances and corps has really left a bitter taste.
It is my hope that these "Events" will never crop up again but who knows with the way things are heading. I will continue to play till my subscription runs out but I will seriously consider renewing it.
PS. If this does not flow for some, I apologize, never was good a writing down my thoughts |
Velthandi
Alpha Production Technologies Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:44:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Baun Edited by: Baun on 28/05/2007 06:15:11 Just so I understand the cryptic implications of the non-information posted by the OP, CCP denies that events are rigged in any way? Or does CCP simply deny that this particular event was rigged?
By the looks of it, someone who shouldn't have been there, found a PROPOSAL (this is important) on the Aurora website, that includes the suggestion that rigging was possible for this event. This person interpreted this as meaning that the event was going to be rigged, and complained about it in a semi-public forum.
Keep in mind that Kieron quoted a document, while Raehkan (writer of the open letter) paraphrases something he was told by Mirial, and it isn't clear if Mirial quoted the document either.
At least, that is how I understand it.
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Terminus adacai
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.28 06:50:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Terminus adacai on 28/05/2007 06:51:42 I've grown sick of this. Every time allegations come up, the investigation yields nothing. Watch, they will address all 4 points, 1 at a time and explain each one away....
The time it takes to "investigate" seems spent on coming up with a response.
The only way trust can be regained between the players and CCP is to remove company employees from the game.
Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance. |
DB Preacher
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.28 07:13:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Terminus adacai Edited by: Terminus adacai on 28/05/2007 06:51:42 I've grown sick of this. Every time allegations come up, the investigation yields nothing. Watch, they will address all 4 points, 1 at a time and explain each one away....
The time it takes to "investigate" seems spent on coming up with a response.
The only way trust can be regained between the players and CCP is to remove company employees from the game.
I think we should remove company employees from the development of the game, this is the only clear way that CCP that sort this out!!
So has the sky fallen in yet?
dbp
Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
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Stylom
Gallente Absolutely No Return
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Posted - 2007.05.28 07:16:00 -
[135]
I couldn't give a flying fack what bunch of fictious charecters are running what part of the Galaxy. I actually cringe when I see those non-sensical storylines in the news post. I get enough stick for just playing computer games without role-playing maddness.
If CCP want to decide the direction of a storyline thats fine by me - if they can also keep it off the news posts that would be an added bonus.
Click here for ANR recruitment details |
Averywar Yuwanabe
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Posted - 2007.05.28 08:02:00 -
[136]
Originally by: DB Preacher
I think we should remove company employees from the development of the game, this is the only clear way that CCP that sort this out!!
So has the sky fallen in yet?
dbp
Every time one of you guys posts gloating about what CCP posts it just makes the whole situation appear even worse. |
Feral wind
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Posted - 2007.05.28 08:10:00 -
[137]
So to clarify you don't rig events to favor any one player / group /alliance etc. However you do rig events so that players efforts have no effect whatsoever on the outcome. IMO pretty Lame. Why bother if CCP has already planned a FORCED outcome and nothing I, my corp, or anyone else can do will change it. <sigh>
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Kimiko Kurosawa
The Krugerrand Groupies
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Posted - 2007.05.28 08:26:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Feral wind So to clarify you don't rig events to favor any one player / group /alliance etc. However you do rig events so that players efforts have no effect whatsoever on the outcome. IMO pretty Lame. Why bother if CCP has already planned a FORCED outcome and nothing I, my corp, or anyone else can do will change it. <sigh>
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't these Events essentially just fancy missions? People run Guristas Extravaganza everyday and the outcome of that never changes; is this rigged?
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MrJordanIOI
Minmatar The Lantern Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2007.05.28 08:27:00 -
[139]
Edited by: MrJordanIOI on 28/05/2007 08:26:17 Imho it would greatly benefit this thread if Kieron or any similar CCP official could state whether this game is "space on rails" or not to us players.
I totally understand that some milestones need to be "modified" by the ones running this game. But to be brutally honest you can only do it oh so often until the playerbase gets the feeling it has zero impact on the sandbox-universe it is playing in.
Bottom line - do players, be it BoB, Goons or whatnot, have some influence on the storyline or not ? IOI
P.S.: the forum posting bug is back again ;(
P.P.S.: Edited for spelling
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Feral wind
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Posted - 2007.05.28 08:41:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Aegieal
Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy Why is there no sticky regarding bob contacts to devs high up via msn?.......
So if i know a dev in real life, and an ISD member breaks the rules in game, and call him up on the phone to ask for help, what is wrong with that?
So if i know a police officer in real life, and I see a cop break the law, and I call my cop friend up on the phone to ask for help, what is wrong with that?
I fail to see the point of the "OMG A BOB GUY KNOWS A DEV!!" arguement. I'm sure they know the difference between a game and their job. I'm not going to sit here and say I don't know anyone involved in the behind the scenes in this game, be it ISD, devs, whatever. But that doesn't mean I ask them for favors or special help, of if they offered me something of the sort that I would accept it. Infact, I pretty much just ignore it, they are just another player as far as I'm concerned, and I understand that they want to play their game. How else are they going to get a feel for what the players want or what they are talking about if they don't play it themselves? Plus, maybe they enjoy playing it???
The point would be because the average player can't instant message a GM/Dev to get problems resolved in 5 mins to a hour. The average player who also pays for the game has to submit a petition which will take 2 weeks upward to a month to get their problem resolved. Basically some Bob players have calmed (and seem to have proved) they have Devs/Gm on call to resolve their problems whenever and in priority over other paying players whose petitions may have been logging in for weeks. Bob players claim this is their right as they have played the game for four years. However this does not make for a level playing field as BoB players could potentially be getting hundreds of corrections / fixes done pretty much on the spot to every 2-3 regular paying costomers petition being resolved. Consider it jumping in line.
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Missy X
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Posted - 2007.05.28 08:44:00 -
[141]
Perhaps we should get two EVE servers, one for the roleplayers and another for the people who are whining in this post, because it is clear that the vast majority of the playerbase has no idea how roleplay works.
Joining a roleplay game (i.e EVE) and whining about roleplay outcomes (i.e where the story arc goes) is a bit like joining a church and complaining about god. If you do not like god why not just leave the church... you will not be missed...
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Pesadel0
Ordem dos Templarios
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Posted - 2007.05.28 08:57:00 -
[142]
Originally by: CCP kieron Following up with the results of our investigations as they come available, we would like to present the following in regards to the allegations of rigged events.
This was investigated previously, the results of which were posted here. Nothing new has been presented that merits re-opening the investigation into the events following the actions taken against the player/volunteer who violated a Non-Disclosure Agreement in regards to the Cult of Tetrimon event arc.
Concerning the allegation of event rigging in particular, the document referenced in the 'Open Letter' is not a finalized script of events, but a proposal and living document based on player interaction with the event arc. The paragraph he refers to states:
ôAs said earlier, we can have the ending open if allowed by you or we can stack the cards in favor of Theology Council so that we after the arc go back to a T2 status quo for the Empire, but without any Tetrimon Cult (who will be forever branded traitors of the Empire and utterly wiped out).ö
In short, it simply gives CCP the option of deciding which direction to move EVEÆs Prime Fiction at the end of the arc or to allow unfolding events to determine what is to follow. The claims of CCP rigging events to benefit a player, corporation or alliance are groundless.
So events shouldn't benefit a player,corporation or alliance?
I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP. |
Twoside
Gallente Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.28 09:04:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 28/05/2007 04:38:56
Originally by: Andrus Delai If one side is predetermined to win, then the event is rigged. The fact that the events aren't rigged with a certain player/faction/alliance that only lessens the severity. If the outcome of any event is predetermined, EVE is not truly a sandbox game.
And since event information is not kept secret it could easily be leaked to others in the game and given a predetermined victor, the chance of information leaks increase dramatically.
This happens in every MMORPG. In fact, in most MMORPGs, every single event is like this.
Thats complete and utter bs. Any respectable scriptwriter makes an open end construction, with the direction being determined by player interaction. Depending on the scale of the event, this varies, but a fixed event, unless they're part of a larger storyline (with an open end), is simply a waste of time.
Also, to those claiming that whoever doesnt trust CCP should play another game, a lot of people don't play the game for CCP, but to have fun with their virtual friends, even though the odds are pretty much fixed against them ;) It's sad that there's to much polarisation that a lot in neither side can have an open perspective anymore, but I guess thats just the way it is. |
fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.05.28 09:19:00 -
[144]
Edited by: fire 59 on 28/05/2007 09:22:55 Thank you for clearing that one up also. I find it interesting to see the goon alts were first going on about the sharkbait thing, got cleared up and they were still going on about this even thing. That got cleared up also and they have moved onto the next issue and are visibly and desperately clutching at straws, trying to spin it into something it is not.
As before, i will wait for the results of the next part of the investigation with eagerness
edit - It is blindingly clear that some folks will not accept any other result other than guilt because that is what they are prepgrogrammed to think. It is sad really
BoB vs the coalition of family values |
Setana Manoro
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.28 09:21:00 -
[145]
Originally by: DB Preacher
Originally by: Terminus adacai Edited by: Terminus adacai on 28/05/2007 06:51:42 I've grown sick of this. Every time allegations come up, the investigation yields nothing. Watch, they will address all 4 points, 1 at a time and explain each one away....
The time it takes to "investigate" seems spent on coming up with a response.
The only way trust can be regained between the players and CCP is to remove company employees from the game.
I think we should remove company employees from the development of the game, this is the only clear way that CCP that sort this out!!
So has the sky fallen in yet?
dbp
Have to wait for conclusion of acts 3 and 4. :) --------------------------------------------------
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Setana Manoro
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2007.05.28 09:23:00 -
[146]
Originally by: fire 59 Thank you for clearing that one up also. I find it interesting to see the goon alts were first going on about the sharkbait thing, got cleared up and they were still going on about this even thing. That got cleared up also and they have moved onto the next issue and are visibly and desperately clutching at straws, trying to spin it into something it is not.
As before, i will wait for the results of the next part of the investigation with eagerness
You can always MSN and ask. :) But yeah, the next 2 phases should be very interesting. --------------------------------------------------
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Rillian
Black Lance NBSI Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.28 09:33:00 -
[147]
CCP has completly lost my trust. 1) for allowing Devs/gms to play on the main server when instead they should be only allowed on the testing server.
For the main reason to avoid favoritism or the appearance of said favoritism.
I have watched events unfold and have seen some bizare stuff happen which could be attributed to bugs/lag/random acts of the internet, but I have learned over time if you see the exact same pattern is it truly random?
Alot of people I know in game are also thinking the same things I am. And even tho I have invested close to 4 years in this game myself I have to ask myself is CCP a company that I want to be giving my hard earned cash to for a game....A great game but one where I no longer have faith in the company running it.
Honestly I can't really say if I am going to leave this game or not. But Right now I am extreamly dissatisfied as a customer how some players can get ahold of DEV/GM out of game via other methods other then what the average player has access to. this in of itself smacks of favoritism to the highest degree.
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Jonny Death
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Posted - 2007.05.28 09:33:00 -
[148]
Edited by: Jonny Death on 28/05/2007 09:35:31 Events are rigged, thats as surprising as pro wrestling being rigged. But I guess alot of ppl here believed prowrestling was real, for a time, before the big reveal, when they stopped denying it. And then became so sloppy that it was obvious they were faking alot.
Point in question, even pick a path books had a predetermined 'correct' ending, or many futile deaths for those that picked the wrong path.
Still not getting to the point? It ain't the end it's the path that matters, but hey, I'm not a RPer, so what do i know?
Edit: Heh, a good life philosophy as well
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Christopher Scott
Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.28 09:46:00 -
[149]
I think people are missing the main point here.
Kieron states that CCP does not rig any events to benefit a certain capsuleer player, corporation, or alliance. That much I believe to be 100% true.
However, what is not mentioned is whether or not certain EVENT TEAM members rig the events to a certain persons benefit, mainly by leaking the details of the event in advance.
I mean, how many times do you have to see a corporation move ships, minerals and equipment to a completely unorthodox location without reason, only to coincidentally have an event spawned and completed at that very location?
Hell, the very first AURORA event that was hosted in EVE was rigged and cheated. It happened during phase 5/6, and the event was about helping escort a convoy of industrials around the universe. The convoys spawned multiple times for each different event, usually 150 jumps apart from eachother, with NO autopilot or instajumps, and it was always the same 3 corporations that scored the loot, always knowing the exact system in which to start in.
Bonus point to naming those three coprorations by the way.
Originally by: DB Preacher I may be a muppet on these forums and wind peeps up massively but what is going on here is waaaaay over the edge of reasonable morality.
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E Vile
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.05.28 10:13:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Missy X Perhaps we should get two EVE servers, one for the roleplayers and another for the people who are whining in this post, because it is clear that the vast majority of the playerbase has no idea how roleplay works.
Joining a roleplay game (i.e EVE) and whining about roleplay outcomes (i.e where the story arc goes) is a bit like joining a church and complaining about god. If you do not like god why not just leave the church... you will not be missed...
EVEN BETTER!!! 1 server for devs and anyone who wants to play with devs (test) and 1 where NO COMPANY EMPLOYEES ARE ALOUD TO PLAY.
The favortism is totally gamebreaking for me. My sub is hanging on by a thread at this point. I am sure I am not the only one. "The key to immortality is to first live a life worth remembering."
Shohadaku New York Metal |
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