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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Alpha Type
Gallente Belief in Antimatter
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Posted - 2007.06.01 11:20:00 -
[181]
The problem:
- Omni tanking in combination with base resists gives a very high resistance to EM damage.
- This causes EM damage to be highly ineffective in general.
- The solution therefore, should be to weaken this combination.
The suggested solution:
- Make EANMS harder to fit, to discourage their use.
- This will encourage the use of single resistance hardeners.
The problems:
- On many setups, an omni tank as on TQ only just fits (<10 tf spare).
- 3 single hardeners in SiSi still use 18tf more than the omni tank, and therefore won't fit.
- Active hardeners use cap, and many armour tanking ships have cap-intensive weapons.
- Gallente ships have a lot of hull HP for a reason (i.e. fitting a DC)
- You can't effectively use one specific armour hardener and two omni hardeners, as a sheild tanker might.
The fallacies:
- Invulnerability fields aren't comparable to EANMs because they are hard to fit on ships smaller that BS size (from the dev blog).
- The omni tank is used because it gives good resistances.
Better solutions:
- Reducing base armour EM resist to 50% would reduce the omni tank EM resist to 75% - a 20% increase in damage taken.
- EANMs only give bonuses to two resistances, but you can choose which.
- Reduce the EM resist bonus on EANMs.
- Adding a stacking penalty to damage controls.
Al that's changed on SiSi at the moment is that some ships keep using the omni tanks, as it still fits easier than three specifics, and the other ships have a really poor tank in general, or have to fit faction mods, neither of which are 'good' results.
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mamolian
M. Corp M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.06.01 11:39:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Jin Entres I was gonna train for minnie anyway..
There was I thinking how could I phrase what I wanted to say politely
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jam6549
SubMerc Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.01 12:00:00 -
[183]
yey! i support the nerf! haha! ---------- JOIN SMI CORP FOR THE BEST HARDCORE ACTION IN EVE! |
n0thing
Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.06.01 14:27:00 -
[184]
Originally by: jam6549 yey! i support the nerf! haha!
Another useless comment from obiovisly someone who havent ever left 0.5 space.
As for topic, above post proposes alot of great suggestions.
I personally like the idea of reducing armor resistances and shield resistances at same time to make omni-tanked ships still be vulnerable to lasers as well as projectiles.
oh and tnx for inlcuding my idea as well
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Larsonist
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Posted - 2007.06.01 16:21:00 -
[185]
Oh wait, so now gallente are brought down to the same standards as amarr and the screaming is deafening...
We amarr have ALWAYS had to deal with deciding between ganking and tanking...this is nothing more than the same for us.
As far as helping amarr..you bet your bottom dollar (or pound, or yen, or mark, or whatever) it helps us. If you are amarr, your guns just became better, if you think otherwise then you need some more schooling.
As an amarr with maxed flying and gunnery skills (except for large pulse spec 5) i know EXACTLY what hell it is to fit a tank and gank on abaddon/apoc/geddon. Gallente just got brought down to our level.
Luberly
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G0rF
Gallente The Causality Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.06.01 16:24:00 -
[186]
So 9 months training Armour and blaster fits, and now you tell me I should have just gone Caldari, just like everyone else?
Thanks then...
Why not just drop the EM resist on EANM II's, as suggested? Not only is it a better solution, it's got to be a hell of a lot less work.
The Causality international MMO gamers' community |
Larsonist
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Posted - 2007.06.01 16:28:00 -
[187]
Im not going to be one to tell you to train caldari.
I am going to tell you to adapt.
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William Hamilton
Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.06.01 17:42:00 -
[188]
Just take down some armour base EM resist and redistribute it across other resists.
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Pipboy2K
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Posted - 2007.06.01 18:08:00 -
[189]
i also say you (ccp) better reduce base armor em resist on all ships and put it like the 10% race specific extra resist of the primary dmg of the enemy ontop on the resist which prevents the secondary dmg of the enemy... e.g.: base resist for all: 50/10/25/35 (without race specific resist bonus) base resist for gallente: 50/10/35/45 (1.kin, 2.thm) base resist for amarr: 50/20/35/35 (1.exp, 2.kin) <-- i would call this boost base resist for caldari 50/10/35/45 (1.thm, 2.kin) base resist for minmatar 60/10/25/45 (1.em, 2.thm)
supporter of the "STOP NERFING EANMS!" activists
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n0thing
Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.06.01 19:14:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Pipboy2K i also say you (ccp) better reduce base armor em resist on all ships and put it like the 10% race specific extra resist of the primary dmg of the enemy ontop on the resist which prevents the secondary dmg of the enemy... e.g.: base resist for all: 50/10/25/35 (without race specific resist bonus) base resist for gallente: 50/10/35/45 (1.kin, 2.thm) base resist for amarr: 50/20/35/35 (1.exp, 2.kin) <-- i would call this boost base resist for caldari 50/10/35/45 (1.thm, 2.kin) base resist for minmatar 60/10/25/45 (1.em, 2.thm)
supporter of the "STOP NERFING EANMS!" activists
/signed.
Best solution to all problems. Id highly vote for this one to go live for testing at least.
Originally by: Larsonist Oh wait, so now gallente are brought down to the same standards as amarr and the screaming is deafening...
We amarr have ALWAYS had to deal with deciding between ganking and tanking...this is nothing more than the same for us.
As far as helping amarr..you bet your bottom dollar (or pound, or yen, or mark, or whatever) it helps us. If you are amarr, your guns just became better, if you think otherwise then you need some more schooling.
As an amarr with maxed flying and gunnery skills (except for large pulse spec 5) i know EXACTLY what hell it is to fit a tank and gank on abaddon/apoc/geddon. Gallente just got brought down to our level.
Luberly
So you actually say that if one race is somehow underpowered, no need to boost it and rather nerf others to same level? lol. funny.
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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2007.06.01 19:16:00 -
[191]
Tbh I dont know whats all the fuss about omni armor tanks gimping laser damage. The same is true for omni shield tanks and projectile damage, but they are not getting nerfed it seems.
And before somebody now says the usual line "but but projectiles can change their damage type" - yea, if only they really could. All projectile t2 ammo and all long range ammo does only ex/kin and in fact all ammo (except phased plasma which does 75% thermal and 25% kinetic) does a majority of ex/kin damage, yes, that includes EMP. So changing damage type with projectile ammo is only an option for short range weapons to begin with and unless you cant use t2 you are sacrificing a lot of falloff and thus damage with changing to anything other then barrage.
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Larsonist
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Posted - 2007.06.01 19:33:00 -
[192]
Edited by: Larsonist on 01/06/2007 19:32:40
Quote: So you actually say that if one race is somehow underpowered, no need to boost it and rather nerf others to same level? lol. funny.
See, the above is what happens when someone with no clue posts.
If you want to see ********...try experiencing a game where the dev's perpetually "boost" said character classes/whatever until re-tard-ation is beyond control. Once you go down that path dude, their ain't no going back. Taking a breath, rethinking things and pulling things back down into check are a much safer and less devastating move than just caving to all the whining.
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n0thing
Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.06.01 19:47:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Larsonist Edited by: Larsonist on 01/06/2007 19:32:40
Quote: So you actually say that if one race is somehow underpowered, no need to boost it and rather nerf others to same level? lol. funny.
See, the above is what happens when someone with no clue posts.
If you want to see ********...try experiencing a game where the dev's perpetually "boost" said character classes/whatever until re-tard-ation is beyond control. Once you go down that path dude, their ain't no going back. Taking a breath, rethinking things and pulling things back down into check are a much safer and less devastating move than just caving to all the whining.
You made no point in any of your posts.
So lets do a summary:
- Amarr somewhat underpowered.
- You said, Gallente brought down to their level means a normal race nerfed down to the already underpowred one.
- Thus if we had 1 race under balance line, now we have 2.
- Now, thats exactly what I said in my post, that you propose to nerf all good stuff so there will be no need for fixing bad stuff.
Now, whos missing a clue? ---
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Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.01 19:48:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Ank Myrandor tbh most of my setups are even surviving the nerf :P
get ur skills up amarrians with gd skills its no problem to fit a pilgrim or zealot, sacri etc
Oh, thats okay then. I'll throw away two years of specialist Gallente training and start training for a Pilgrim or Zealot since they are the only ships which survive the nerf intact.
I DONT F'ING THINK.
---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
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Butter Dog
The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.01 19:51:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Copine Callmeknau
Seriously guys, Thermic + Explosive + Kinetic gives you even resists with a mild explosive hole.
This change is a step towards differentiating gank and tank ships, no longer will you be able to do both at once. And it will help get rid of supertanked bait ships somewhat :)
And given that active hardners take MORE CPU than passive, post-nerf, how do you exactly propose we do that?
The only solution I can see is T1 passive hardners. Nice.
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n0thing
Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.06.01 20:32:00 -
[196]
Just listened to dev blog about Heat.
It was explained as to prevent EM resist go too high, so they reduced active hardener to 36 CPU and increased EANM to 36 CPU.
Fine, makes sense. But 36 CPU is still way too much to fit on CPU tight ships. We have maybe 1-2 CPU buffer if we lucky. And here we talking about at least 15 cpu gap.
Seriosly, if you really dont want to lower base EM/Explosive resistances on Armor/Shield then reduce active armor hardener CPU usage lower then EANM is now. Means, make it 27 CPU on T2, at least. ---
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KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.06.01 20:35:00 -
[197]
LOl Caldari arent even that great at pve. I think ratting in a skilled domi or mega will be much much faster then a raven. Raven might be faster at missions, but I feel pretty certain that a rail mega could blaze through them as well. There is no real reason why one race should be so much better then the other. Behold my evidince of BOB favoritism.
Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS.
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CampyloBacter
Gallente Chlamydia Online
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Posted - 2007.06.01 20:46:00 -
[198]
Why does every patch have to be an exercise in alienating a significant part of the userbase?
Instead of devoting time and effort to areas of the game where improvements are necessary ie. fixing the legitimate grievances of Amarr players, yet another part of the game gets broken in CCP's typically esoteric and illogical way of F****ing one thing massively up to make another appear less F***ked up.
There was a time when initiative and intelligence triumphed in this game. Now it's a case of whoever whines wins.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.06.01 21:59:00 -
[199]
Originally by: James Duar So, interesting idea, just, sort of, putting it out there, but if the problem for Amarr is they only do EM and EM has ridiculous resists, why not just give the Amarr a boost to EM damage to compensate for the average amount of resist they encounter?
Yes. Ive mentioned this many times James Duaaaaaaaaaaar.
But the reduction in CPU on active hardeners would need to be significant enough to make the 3x hardener setup use much less CPU than the EANM/DC setup. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.06.01 22:10:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Larsonist Oh wait, so now gallente are brought down to the same standards as amarr and the screaming is deafening...
We amarr have ALWAYS had to deal with deciding between ganking and tanking...this is nothing more than the same for us.
As far as helping amarr..you bet your bottom dollar (or pound, or yen, or mark, or whatever) it helps us. If you are amarr, your guns just became better, if you think otherwise then you need some more schooling.
As an amarr with maxed flying and gunnery skills (except for large pulse spec 5) i know EXACTLY what hell it is to fit a tank and gank on abaddon/apoc/geddon. Gallente just got brought down to our level.
Luberly
This change doesnt modify the liklyhood of tri-hardeners, so it doesnt modify the ratio of damage taken against armor for amarr. This means it doesnt actualy do anything. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew" |
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Nicocat
Caldari New Age Solutions New Age Solutions Amalgamated
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Posted - 2007.06.01 22:13:00 -
[201]
I smell a price hike in faction EANMs. *rubs his hands together and grins*
Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY
Down with alts! One character per account per IP! |
n0thing
Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.06.01 22:25:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Nicocat I smell a price hike in faction EANMs. *rubs his hands together and grins*
Id smell Adaptive Nanos rising up. *aims his buy button when Rev2 notes release*. ---
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KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.06.01 23:21:00 -
[203]
Guys, this nerf really isnt that bad.... shield tanks are getting a nerf as well, dont forget. Amarr is being buffed, their turrets are getting a tracking bonus. Hopefully this mod will bring armor tanks more inline with shield tanks. ANd please don't tell me that I shouldnt be able to pvp because my raven can run missions. A megathron can run missions just fine, and has enormous pvp potential. Behold my evidince of BOB favoritism.
Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS.
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Incantare
Caldari Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.01 23:39:00 -
[204]
The whine is strong in this thread. It wasn't the amarr buff I was expecting but more variety in armor tanking setups is welcome. Active hardner CPU use should be low to compensate though.
And to whoever was moaning about shield tankers getting a skill that reduces cap usage: shield tankers have to sacrifice a mid slot (and often a fitting slot if it's a missile boat) to fit an injector, that lost midslot compromises their tank (same for rechargers), they get a penalty on CPRs, and PDU's don't give stellar amounts of recharge. That skill is needed or else shield tanks would cap out too fast.
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n0thing
Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.06.02 00:04:00 -
[205]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy Guys, this nerf really isnt that bad.... shield tanks are getting a nerf as well, dont forget. Amarr is being buffed, their turrets are getting a tracking bonus. Hopefully this mod will bring armor tanks more inline with shield tanks. ANd please don't tell me that I shouldnt be able to pvp because my raven can run missions. A megathron can run missions just fine, and has enormous pvp potential.
Megathron needs a greater amount of SP to be as good as in Raven in BS vs BS fight.
Moreover, shield tanking alot better now since:
- Have cap reduction skill. - Have amount boost module while armor tankers get rig for it with penalty. - Still have recharge. - They can run XL Booster pernamently with certain setups.
All of the above, can be done by armor tankers. So i cant see how armor tanking is overpowered. Not to mention that Raven can fit 3 BCUs without touching its resistances.
As for nerf, its a nerf. Bad or good it doesnt matter. Might as well add Ishtar 'drone mining yeld' bonus like Vexor has, since that ship not gonna stand being good HAC anymore. You cant fit separate hardeners as they take same 36 CPU, and you cant go out with 50ish explosive resist since your a toast to even a gank rupture lol.
Oh and btw, it still doesnt change the fact that Megat needs -5% CPU reduction implant to fit its main setups. ---
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KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.06.02 01:04:00 -
[206]
Yes, you can make xl boosters perma run in some specific mission setups, this takes three rigs though. I've seen amarr ships perma run large t2 repers without rigs. Behold my evidince of BOB favoritism.
Originally by: Dianabolic We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS.
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SIlver Light
Minmatar 5punkorp Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.06.02 06:53:00 -
[207]
Lee you whinging bugger
/signed.
Don't nerf EAMNs like this CCP. How exactly is this going to help amarr? ------ Proud Member of 5punkorp |
Stribog
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.06.02 09:17:00 -
[208]
Well, there go my setup's!
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Hephaesteus
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.02 10:05:00 -
[209]
Prob the best solution would be to change base resists on armour and shields to be a little more even across the board, or reduce EANM resists on em alone to balance the high armour resists.
Seems a little extreme to change EANM's this way when a slight armour/shield nerf will do the job better.
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Trass
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Posted - 2007.06.02 10:22:00 -
[210]
Edited by: Trass on 02/06/2007 10:22:59 First CCP increasing ships hp (so fight take longer), then they nerfing 'tank' fit. There is no logic in here.
CCP - decide what you really want. Longer fights or shorter fights (besides not only Amarr can do em dmg).
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