Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .. 12 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Ragnor Dayton
Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 15:51:00 -
[121]
Talk about CCP pandering to the vocal minority. Already reduced. Shame.
2 EANM2+ DC2 = 50% to each resist EANM2 + ANP2 + DC2 = 45% to each resist
Assuming max skills.
Difference on Kinetic / Thermal for Gallente is 67% to 64% resist. Wrecking setup indeed. And you still have extra of cpu.......... ------------------------------------------------ Just because your not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you! |
Dodona
Gallente Azure Horizon Coalition Of Empires
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 15:56:00 -
[122]
It would be a better idea for everyone to at least log into the test server and see if you can make things work with the EANM change; that's what it's there for. And the more people that get on and test, the more assuredly you can tell if something does or does not work. I've been on a bit and things seem be going swimmingly, besides the features which are obviously still being tested.
Far too much theorizing in this thread.
|
Broska
Black Sea Industries Cult of War
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 16:00:00 -
[123]
This is screwed up.
Nerfing EANM's is NOT the way to fix Amarr. Boost lasers and fix the sodding Amarr Boni.
------------------------------
Originally by: Tovarishch flying a Scorp into a fleet battle is like parking a pink moped in front of a biker bar - you will die... quickly.
|
Chr0nosX
The Good Fellas The Imperial Order
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 16:02:00 -
[124]
Edited by: Chr0nosX on 31/05/2007 16:04:53 If these changes go live then goodbye blasterthrons. You just won't be able to fit them anymore.
|
Entilzah Valen
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 16:05:00 -
[125]
Lots of changes lately have just been absolutely ******* stupid, and I see the trend is continuing.
So exactly how many former carebear-types work at CCP?
Good Job __________________________
Quote: Marko Debreault > I WILL MAKE BROTH FROM YOUR BLOOD AND DRINK IT FROM YOUR SKULL
|
Valandril
Caldari Leela's Lamas
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 16:06:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Entilzah Valen Lots of changes lately have just been absolutely ******* stupid, and I see the trend is continuing.
So exactly how many former carebear-types work at CCP?
Good Job
Look at my sig for explanation :D --- I swear to god, ccp choose changes in game via lottery system. |
Sc0rpion
Minmatar MetaForge Ekliptika
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 16:08:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Dodona It would be a better idea for everyone to at least log into the test server and see if you can make things work with the EANM change; that's what it's there for. And the more people that get on and test, the more assuredly you can tell if something does or does not work. I've been on a bit and things seem be going swimmingly, besides the features which are obviously still being tested.
Far too much theorizing in this thread.
Boy, why didn't us people who are posting in the development forum and probably sign onto Sisi a few times per week think of that?
The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously. -Friedrich Nietzsche
Killmails are for pooftas. |
wierchas noobhunter
LFC
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 16:14:00 -
[128]
great move ... i have lots of time to train up my missing minmatar skills .. tho most of my new gal setup involves diferent taking
haha u all noobs just got nefred
|
Ozzie Asrail
Exploited
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 16:14:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Ragnor Dayton Talk about CCP pandering to the vocal minority. Already reduced. Shame.
2 EANM2+ DC2 = 50% to each resist EANM2 + ANP2 + DC2 = 45% to each resist
Assuming max skills.
Difference on Kinetic / Thermal for Gallente is 67% to 64% resist. Wrecking setup indeed. And you still have extra of cpu..........
So apart from being an across the board armour tank nerf what good is this change? What exactly does it fix? -----
|
Lisento Slaven
Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 16:15:00 -
[130]
Soooo...people have to downgrade their guns to fit an EANM setup? ---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
|
|
Zhull
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 16:32:00 -
[131]
I still fail to understand the logic behind this change. Most people agree that Amarr could use a buff. But nerfing every armor tanking ship in the game is a completely different story.
As somebody pointed out before, if you switch from 2 EANM to 1 EANM + 1 adaptative nano plating you loose some resists but you sill can have an average ommi tank.
That is not the problem. The problem is that this change does not address the real problem (amarr needs more damage and more damage types).
Plus there are other ships that desperately need a nerf:
Sabre: Dual extender sabres can tank, run like inties and can also receive a few volleys without breakin a sweat.
Vaga: Can kite every single ship in the game
Curse: Right now it would be unfair to nerf it because it might be the only good ship amarians have but rigth now it can completely disable and kill almost any other ship in the game (at least those whithout a 100% passive tank).
Maybe we are not seing the whole picture here and more changes will hit test soon. I sincerily hope so.
|
murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 16:33:00 -
[132]
FFS CCP. NO NO NO NO NO.
"To bring Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II online requires 36.0 cpu units, but only 27.3 of the 687.5 units that your computer produces are still available."
No, 36 CPU is NOT better. Put it back to 30 FFS. You're bothering to edit the value, and you're not putting it back to 30? Why are you wasting time and effort F'ing around with it when it just needs to be returned to where it was in the first place?
Sometimes I get the feeling that the devs are just F'ing around, watching us freak out as they mess with our stuff.
Because I said so...
|
Ragnor Dayton
Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 16:35:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Ozzie Asrail
Originally by: Ragnor Dayton Talk about CCP pandering to the vocal minority. Already reduced. Shame.
2 EANM2+ DC2 = 50% to each resist EANM2 + ANP2 + DC2 = 45% to each resist
Assuming max skills.
Difference on Kinetic / Thermal for Gallente is 67% to 64% resist. Wrecking setup indeed. And you still have extra of cpu..........
So apart from being an across the board armour tank nerf what good is this change? What exactly does it fix?
You mean apart from nerfing the most overused and overpowered tank in the game which has needed nerfing for a long time? Which in itselfis a good thing. How can putting 3 passive modules on to gain the greater benefit than 4 active modules be reasonable in any way? The greater benefit being 60% structural resists by the way. Even with the additional skill time needed to train? It needed nerfing, and needs to be nerfed further to make fitting active hardeners more viable, which in turn will help to solve the Laser damage issue to onmi tanks. Small step in the right direction, but only a small one.
Decrease active hardener cpu to 30 should be the next step, or increase EANM fitting to 60cpu would be better and more balanced. At least then there would be a choice, not a one size fits all which has left one race heavily nerfed for no valid reason.
For comparison the Invulnerability Field takes twice as much cap to run as an active single shield hardener. But EANM has no such drawback as it doesn't use cap so another area needs to be found to act as an equivalent. Twice as much cpu usage as active hardeners therefore is balanced as it acts as half of 4 active hardeners. Seems fair to me. And you still don't have any cap use. ------------------------------------------------ Just because your not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you! |
Garrakh
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 16:36:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Lisento Slaven Soooo...people have to downgrade their guns to fit an EANM setup?
Please kind sir, try to fit a deimos with any sort of decent fitting, then compare it with other HACS.
Then do the same with other blaster and pulse laser ships and compare them with other ships in their class.
Then come back here and try to expess an informed opinion.
|
ChalSto
The Galactic Empire Vigilance Infinitas
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 16:40:00 -
[135]
Well, this nerf got the handwriting of Tux. So dear Tux, can you give us one....only ONE good arguement for that nerf, becouse Gallente, Minmatar AND Amarr Pilots dont see ANY good arguement in that nerf.
To Boost Amarr, nerf the others? (but nerfing Amarr even more? )
What Amarr need is a light buff of their dmg (more thermal than EM; allready soooooooo often suggested ) And a massive decrase in Cap-need of their wepaons (-20% at least).
Blasters should be the weapons with the most cap-need. No doubt about that.
Blasters allready suffer from high CPU usage, extreme shortest range (980m optimal range with Void on a CEPTOR anyone? ) and high Cap-Usage. Seems balacend to me, becouse of the high dmg-out we got.
But Laser, in comparison to dmg-cap is unbalanced; so fix
Evil will allways triumph, becouse Good is dumb
|
Wizzkidy
Demonic Retribution Pure.
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 16:40:00 -
[136]
Originally by: murder one FFS CCP. NO NO NO NO NO.
"To bring Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II online requires 36.0 cpu units, but only 27.3 of the 687.5 units that your computer produces are still available."
No, 36 CPU is NOT better. Put it back to 30 FFS. You're bothering to edit the value, and you're not putting it back to 30? Why are you wasting time and effort F'ing around with it when it just needs to be returned to where it was in the first place?
Sometimes I get the feeling that the devs are just F'ing around, watching us freak out as they mess with our stuff.
No matter what they change you are going to be upset, you seem to think that EANM do not neee changing when they DO NEED A NERF, they are overpowered. Yes this might not "fix" ammar but at the moment they are overpowered for what they do.
It just seems your moaning about the change!? what do you want them to do leave the resists AND the fitted req alone?
Whats wrong with you its TESTING
|
Rooker
Lysian Enterprises United Corporations Against Macros
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 16:41:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Rooker on 31/05/2007 16:43:41 WTS: EANM II
WTB: Domi BPO Heavy NOS BPO
Just face it. They want all of us flying those weird looking Caldari rocketships.
That's fine. If you want to destroy the usefulness of EANM, then you also need to 1) dramatically increase the size of capacitor on armor tankers and 2) give them more low slots. The reason *I* use an EANM is because I run low on the first on the way to the opponent and run out of the second before I even undock.
EDIT:
I guess I'll yank Gallente Cruiser 5 out of my skill plan now until I see what happens here. I've heard what happened to people who specced Amarr.
|
FemmeFatal
Control Theory
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 16:47:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Ragnor Dayton You mean apart from nerfing the most overused and overpowered tank in the game which has needed nerfing for a long time?
Could have sworn you were about to say PASSIVE SHIELD TANKING there
|
Laboratus
Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 16:47:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Ragnor Dayton
You mean apart from nerfing the most overused and overpowered tank in the game which has needed nerfing for a long time? +stuff
Are we playing the same game?
Tanks hardly keep up with the damage one might expect, and usually they don't, to encounter in a fight. In addition to that, forcing ppl to use active hardeners will only make the cap issues of today even worse than they are. Not to forget that the biggest hit from this change will be on... Amarr Since they don't have too much cpu to use on their tanks and have other uses for their cap already. And kicking amarr while they are down is not really fun, at all...
As for the actual topic. FFS this kinds off ****ed tweaks are unneeded and ultimately unnececcary. Please concentrate on fixing things that need fixing like the drone UI etc. Please. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats |
Ragnor Dayton
Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 16:51:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Rooker WTS: EANM II
WTB: Domi BPO Heavy NOS BPO
Just face it. They want all of us flying those weird looking Caldari rocketships.
That's fine. If you want to destroy the usefulness of EANM, then you also need to 1) dramatically increase the size of capacitor on armor tankers and 2) give them more low slots. The reason *I* use an EANM is because I run low on the first on the way to the opponent and run out of the second before I even undock.
EANM should really be used in that way - as an overall supplement to a tank, rather than as the main part of the tank. Even so there is an even easier to fit module - the ANP. Also most PVP ships fit cap booster, so capacitor size is largely irrelavent. Also this is suppose to be a game where fittings have to be worked out and refined! Otherwise you may as well just give all ships as many slots and as much powergrid / cpu as they want, rather than make it a challenge which the 2EANM2+DC2 tank somewhat got rid of. ------------------------------------------------ Just because your not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you! |
|
Garrakh
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 16:53:00 -
[141]
This could be a good time to publish the long awaited ship balancing blog.
|
Mysterlee
Gallente 5punkorp Betrayal Under Mayhem
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 16:57:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Ragnor Dayton Twice as much cpu usage as active hardeners therefore is balanced as it acts as half of 4 active hardeners. Seems fair to me. And you still don't have any cap use.
Balanced in that you cant fit them at all?
I've already stated the fix thats needed repeatedly. No one will complain and amarr will rejoice.
Change cpu requirement back to 30 and reduce the EM resist bonus to 7.5% while leaving the others at 20%.
|
Sc0rpion
Minmatar MetaForge Ekliptika
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 16:57:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Ragnor Dayton It needed nerfing, and needs to be nerfed further to make fitting active hardeners more viable, which in turn will help to solve the Laser damage issue to onmi tanks.
This does nothing to help lasers. All this does is drive every blaster pilot into a nos boat, which actually makes lasers worse.
The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously. -Friedrich Nietzsche
Killmails are for pooftas. |
Gabriel Karade
Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 17:02:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Kakita Jalaan
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
There already is a resistance hole, it's called explosive (54% resistance)...
And three passive membranes with maximum compensation skills gives you an awe inspiring resistance total of 60/52/65/65 (compared to 80/54/67/67 currently) - or in other words a 17% drop in normalised armour HP's.
I assume you used 3 energized single, compared to 2 EANMs + DCU? I personally think this change doesn't look too bad, since everything but EM loses 2% resistance, which is not so terribly much. The 17% normalized HP drop is a bit misleading I think, since mainly it's a 50% effective "EM HP" drop from 80% to 60% resists and an average 6% (or so) drop versus everything else. AKA, not so bad versus everything but lasers and EM missiles.
The current explosive hole can only be exploited by Minnies and explosive missiles/drones, but not at all by regular Amarr and Gallente guns and Caldari rails.
Here are just some fitting alternatives to 2xEANM + DCU (currently 90/5 fitting, soon 110/5), off the top of my head: - EANM + Adaptive Nano Plating + DCU (77/49/63/63) for 20/1 less than now (possibly "best" alternative in terms of EHP drop) - EANM + Adaptive Nano + Energized Reactive (73/64/57/57) for 20 cpu less if you need exp resists - 3x energized platings (Gabriel's choice) (60/52/65/65) for 1 more grid - EANM + 2 energized platings (69/61/51 and 72 as you see fit on Gallente ships) for 10/1 more - DCU + 2 energized platings (66/58/45 and 70 as you see fit) for same fitting as now
Some percentages might be 1 too low, don't have all lvl 5 compensations. I don't think losing some effective HP on one or two resists is all that terribly bad, since in some cases you actually free up cpu on very cpu intensive fittings, as several people pointed out above. It also makes your setup less predictable, which is always good in my book.
Well one of the things you missed off was the loss in normalised shield and hull hitpoints, given the use of three passive hardeners over two EANMII + DCU.
That combined with the drop in normalised armour HP's makes this a terrible change for both Gallente and Amarr. ----------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
n0thing
Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 17:05:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Ragnor Dayton stuff
Once again, cap boosters use charges. How long do I have to wait to kill you? Your cargo size will tell.
As for the shield vs armor tank.
This is more like not Amarr fix, rather an armor tank nerf. So, question is why?.
Lets compare on basic level.
Shield:
- Reduce cap usage skill. - Increase boost amount module. - Increase shield amount skill. - Increase shield recharge rate. *this is specific one, so not much attention.
Armor:
- Reduce cycle time. - Increase HP amount.
So, shield tanks meant to absorb alot of damage for short time, while armor tanks for more extended tank.
How come then shield tankers get cap reduction skill? To run the said shield booster with same 'pernament' scheme as armor tankers? And then the armor tankers who get a nerf while shield tankers only drawback is lack of taclking utulity slots? Seriosly, lol? Why you need utility slot if your armor tanking enemy breaks like paper.
Really, like i said above, I thought that theres aim to make Gallente use all of their good ships, but now wer even more temped to fly our 5 nosf Domi`s.
As for Blasterthron, adaptive plating wont save it. On T! ship a gap of 7-8% is huge when you got no rep and enemy got better tank.
---
|
Ragnor Dayton
Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 17:11:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Originally by: Kakita Jalaan
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
There already is a resistance hole, it's called explosive (54% resistance)...
And three passive membranes with maximum compensation skills gives you an awe inspiring resistance total of 60/52/65/65 (compared to 80/54/67/67 currently) - or in other words a 17% drop in normalised armour HP's.
I assume you used 3 energized single, compared to 2 EANMs + DCU? I personally think this change doesn't look too bad, since everything but EM loses 2% resistance, which is not so terribly much. The 17% normalized HP drop is a bit misleading I think, since mainly it's a 50% effective "EM HP" drop from 80% to 60% resists and an average 6% (or so) drop versus everything else. AKA, not so bad versus everything but lasers and EM missiles.
The current explosive hole can only be exploited by Minnies and explosive missiles/drones, but not at all by regular Amarr and Gallente guns and Caldari rails.
Here are just some fitting alternatives to 2xEANM + DCU (currently 90/5 fitting, soon 110/5), off the top of my head: - EANM + Adaptive Nano Plating + DCU (77/49/63/63) for 20/1 less than now (possibly "best" alternative in terms of EHP drop) - EANM + Adaptive Nano + Energized Reactive (73/64/57/57) for 20 cpu less if you need exp resists - 3x energized platings (Gabriel's choice) (60/52/65/65) for 1 more grid - EANM + 2 energized platings (69/61/51 and 72 as you see fit on Gallente ships) for 10/1 more - DCU + 2 energized platings (66/58/45 and 70 as you see fit) for same fitting as now
Some percentages might be 1 too low, don't have all lvl 5 compensations. I don't think losing some effective HP on one or two resists is all that terribly bad, since in some cases you actually free up cpu on very cpu intensive fittings, as several people pointed out above. It also makes your setup less predictable, which is always good in my book.
Well one of the things you missed off was the loss in normalised shield and hull hitpoints, given the use of three passive hardeners over two EANMII + DCU.
That combined with the drop in normalised armour HP's makes this a terrible change for both Gallente and Amarr.
Or any ship that armor tanks indeed. Which might just change the shield/armor tank ratio in PVP? And lasers have more effect on shields........ Helping Amarr again without changing lasers damage type, which would go against the game setup of each race having it's own prefered damage type. ------------------------------------------------ Just because your not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you! |
Azerrad InExile
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 17:15:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Sc0rpion This does nothing to help lasers. All this does is drive every blaster pilot into a nos boat, which actually makes lasers worse.
This does nothing to help anyone. All it does is make shield tanking overpowered in comparison. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level." |
Ozzie Asrail
Exploited
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 17:16:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Ragnor Dayton You mean apart from nerfing the most overused and overpowered tank in the game which has needed nerfing for a long time?
No. It nerfs every single setup that uses an EAN, even setups that only use 1 ean.
Originally by: Ragnor Dayton How can putting 3 passive modules on to gain the greater benefit than 4 active modules be reasonable in any way? The greater benefit being 60% structural resists by the way.
Incorrect. 4x actives far outclasses 3 EAN with or without a DCU. 3 actives + dcu v 3 ean + dcu is still better. Sure 3x actives + dcu makes EM a little better but then nerfs every other dmg type.
Originally by: Ragnor Dayton Even with the additional skill time needed to train? It needed nerfing, and needs to be nerfed further to make fitting active hardeners more viable, which in turn will help to solve the Laser damage issue to onmi tanks. Small step in the right direction, but only a small one.
It completley changes a huge amount of ship ballance regarding resistances, dmg types and tanks to fix one weapons types problem.
Originally by: Ragnor Dayton
Decrease active hardener cpu to 30 should be the next step, or increase EANM fitting to 60cpu would be better and more balanced. At least then there would be a choice, not a one size fits all which has left one race heavily nerfed for no valid reason.
Lowering actives should be the FIRST step because thats why people fit EAN over actives. On most setups either you only have 2-3 slots for resistance mods or you dont have the CPU to fir actives.
Originally by: Ragnor Dayton
For comparison the Invulnerability Field takes twice as much cap to run as an active single shield hardener. But EANM has no such drawback as it doesn't use cap so another area needs to be found to act as an equivalent. Twice as much cpu usage as active hardeners therefore is balanced as it acts as half of 4 active hardeners. Seems fair to me. And you still don't have any cap use.
Plates don't increase armour repair rates, there are NO mid slot armour mods, there are NO active invuln style mods, boost amps use less than 1/4 of a XL-boosters CPU while armour needs a whole 2nd rep. Missles\Projectiles use NO cap, even with a heavy booster blasterboats are frequently out of cap and that means no guns, no reppers, and no hardners. You simply can't compare them. -----
|
Ragnor Dayton
Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 17:21:00 -
[149]
Originally by: n0thing
As for Blasterthron, adaptive plating wont save it. On T! ship a gap of 7-8% is huge when you got no rep and enemy got better tank.
3% difference on Gallente Thermal/Kinetic ship - 67% with 2EANM2+DC2 vs 64% with EANM2, ANP2 & DC2.
Isn't a blasterthron meant to be a gank ship, rather than a tank ship? ------------------------------------------------ Just because your not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you! |
Azerrad InExile
|
Posted - 2007.05.31 17:27:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Ragnor Dayton 3% difference on Gallente Thermal/Kinetic ship - 67% with 2EANM2+DC2 vs 64% with EANM2, ANP2 & DC2.
Isn't a blasterthron meant to be a gank ship, rather than a tank ship?
Well its actually a 9% difference in the amount of DPS that gets through... which means it can be killed about 9% faster. Gank ship or not, this is a straight up nerf. -- t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level." |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .. 12 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |