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Kiryu Oranos
Irrationality ILLC Pinked
5
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Posted - 2012.01.02 11:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey guys, I'm fully trained for a carrier, and I was just wondering if its worth spending 800m + 150 to fit it, I would use it for PvE and Armor triage. -Kiryu |
Nestara Aldent
EVE University Ivy League
18
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Posted - 2012.01.02 11:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
You have posted in the wrong section of the forum. I hope the moderators will move the thread to correct one. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
201
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Posted - 2012.01.02 12:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
yeah, wrong subforum.
However, to answer your question, using a carrier for PvE sounds like an excellent plan, if you could just give me the name of the system you plan to do this in I'll be along to see how well it goes for you. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1026
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Posted - 2012.01.02 12:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
You must be new to capitals. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
230
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Posted - 2012.01.02 13:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
I don't get it; you spent 3-4 months getting fully trained (hull, reps, rr, nrg trans) for an Archon and it only occurred to you now to ask if it is "worth it"?
For the sake of efficiency, you might want to reverse the order for your next lengthy skill plan |
Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
9
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Posted - 2012.01.02 20:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hmmm... a ratting carrier...
...GOOD IDEA!
(chanced upon those while heading out for a null sec roam, while they are not archons, it wouldn't have made a difference ) |
King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
123
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Posted - 2012.01.03 02:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
I once tackled and killed a thanny in a low sec belt with my revelation. That is all. |
Brotha Umad
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
25
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Posted - 2012.01.03 16:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote:Hmmm... a ratting carrier... ...GOOD IDEA!(chanced upon those while heading out for a null sec roam, while they are not archons, it wouldn't have made a difference )
Quote: I once tackled and killed a thanny in a low sec belt with my revelation. That is all.
Yeah this ship is useless and should be removed from the game, OP you'd better find one that no one ever ganked anywhere. Good luck. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
555
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Posted - 2012.01.03 16:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Archons are awesome and quite arguably the best armor triage carrier. For PVE you should probably have trained the Thanny - though I've been partial to sentry drones for PVE purposes which would make it not matter.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Arazel Chainfire
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
67
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Posted - 2012.01.03 17:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
An archon is perfectly viable for PvE. However, the PvE it is viable for is C5/C6 WH capital escalation, and assigning fighters to your alts while you sit on the edge of a POS shield in null. While some people use carriers actually in sites to clear them, I feel that this is a poor decision, unless you're in the backend of beyond with dozens of systems w/ intel coverage between you and any possible opposition (and even then I wouldn't recommend it... it isn't significantly better at clearing sites then a well fit faction battleship).
-Arazel |
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Aamrr
206
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Posted - 2012.01.03 17:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
On the other hand, you can insure an Archon -- you can't very well insure a faction battleship. |
Julia Connor
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
117
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Posted - 2012.01.03 17:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
I lold |
AstarothPrime
Eternal Profiteers Eternal Syndicate
2
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Posted - 2012.01.04 15:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Arazel Chainfire wrote:An archon is perfectly viable for PvE. However, the PvE it is viable for is C5/C6 WH capital escalation, and assigning fighters to your alts while you sit on the edge of a POS shield in null. While some people use carriers actually in sites to clear them, I feel that this is a poor decision, unless you're in the backend of beyond with dozens of systems w/ intel coverage between you and any possible opposition (and even then I wouldn't recommend it... it isn't significantly better at clearing sites then a well fit faction battleship).
-Arazel
Fact: * it costs pretty much the same as well fit faction BS.
carrier PVE + * "instawarp" capability in sov null if you are in range of any friendly cynogen - that means jumping ofc ;) * jump capabilities make it great for moving your fleet of ships around * no site / rat can break its tank no matter how wrong u fit it * insurance pays u back 50% of total fielding costs, you get maybe 5% with faction BS * fit 3 intertia stabs II in lows and it aligns as fast as armor tanked BS
carrier PVE - * if they (enemy) catches you - you are doomed * no MWD to escape tight situations * anything smaller then BS instalocks you * fighter costs 20M - losing a flight of 10 fighters HURTS * you can instapop upon DD fired on you
Bottom line - once you get to know where and when to rat in carrier youll be amazed how good it can be.
I.
Edit P.S.
You will eventually lose both faction BS and carrier... insurance payout will definitely make carrier loss hurt a lot less. If you dont wanna risk much - there is always T2 fit raven or drake available on market. Have fun |
AstarothPrime
Eternal Profiteers Eternal Syndicate
2
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Posted - 2012.01.04 15:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
King Rothgar wrote:I once tackled and killed a thanny in a low sec belt with my revelation. That is all.
You make it sound like its you look at carrier in your noobship and it explodes...
It aint like this. Semi well fit archon with cap repper and cap recharge rigs has around 4000 DPS perma tank and needs 4-5 large neuts to hurt its cap down to the point where he actually starts to feel the neuting.
If you solo popped carrier with subcap - he was definitely floating somewhere afk. But then again - youll never see solo attacks on carriers - fleets of 20 are more likely
Regards
I. |
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
56
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Posted - 2012.01.04 15:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
One other edge to knowing how to fly the Archon vs. a different carrier is it gives you more future flexibility to expand into advanced carrier tactics, if you decide to take up serious carrier flying that is. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
558
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Posted - 2012.01.04 18:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
All this talk about insuring your carrier and faction BS - that's totally silly talk unless you intend to neglect basic due diligence towards your personal safety. You have to remember that PVE ships don't pop that often and if your insurance expires you just wasted that ISK. And your insurance almost certainly will expire.
I'm really rather flabbergasted at how risk averse your average 0.0 denizen appears to be when compared to your average low sec denizen. People in low sec don't seem to blink over taking carriers into L5s and pimped out faction BS's into L4s and pimped out deadspace fit bombers into FW missions. And in a lot of ways the population density of hostiles in low sec is higher than that of 0.0.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Kaanchana
Rocket Rajas
155
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Posted - 2012.01.04 18:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
AstarothPrime wrote:King Rothgar wrote:I once tackled and killed a thanny in a low sec belt with my revelation. That is all. You make it sound like its you look at carrier in your noobship and it explodes... It aint like this. Semi well fit archon with cap repper and cap recharge rigs has around 4000 DPS perma tank and needs 4-5 large neuts to hurt its cap down to the point where he actually starts to feel the neuting. If you solo popped carrier with subcap - he was definitely floating somewhere afk. But then again - youll never see solo attacks on carriers - fleets of 20 are more likely Regards I.
I am pretty sure revelation is not a sub cap.
And many ratting carrier killmails show them to have LAR fitted..
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Brotha Umad
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
25
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Posted - 2012.01.05 17:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Kaanchana wrote:
And many ratting carrier killmails show them to have LAR fitted..
Duh, of course, because X-LAR does not exist. |
Alua Oresson
The Dominion of Light BLACK-MARK
53
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Posted - 2012.01.05 18:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
Brotha Umad wrote:Kaanchana wrote:
And many ratting carrier killmails show them to have LAR fitted..
Duh, of course, because X-LAR does not exist.
DUH and just in case someone wants to say they aren't in game... DUH |
Aamrr
206
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Posted - 2012.01.05 18:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:All this talk about insuring your carrier and faction BS - that's totally silly talk unless you intend to neglect basic due diligence towards your personal safety. You have to remember that PVE ships don't pop that often and if your insurance expires you just wasted that ISK. And your insurance almost certainly will expire.
I'm really rather flabbergasted at how risk averse your average 0.0 denizen appears to be when compared to your average low sec denizen. People in low sec don't seem to blink over taking carriers into L5s and pimped out faction BS's into L4s and pimped out deadspace fit bombers into FW missions. And in a lot of ways the population density of hostiles in low sec is higher than that of 0.0.
-Liang
This all makes perfect sense... ...if that carrier is doing only PvE.
Carriers are multi-purpose. It's easy -- trivial, even -- to refit them from PvP to PvE at a moment's notice. And if you're regularly using that carrier for the benefit of your corporation and killboard, there's going to be enough risk to justify insuring it. If you can then leverage that insurance premium into making a profit, then so much the better.
I think you're missing the larger picture, Liang. People can use ships for more than one thing... |
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Valea Silpha
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
12
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Posted - 2012.01.05 18:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:All this talk about insuring your carrier and faction BS - that's totally silly talk unless you intend to neglect basic due diligence towards your personal safety. You have to remember that PVE ships don't pop that often and if your insurance expires you just wasted that ISK. And your insurance almost certainly will expire.
I'm really rather flabbergasted at how risk averse your average 0.0 denizen appears to be when compared to your average low sec denizen. People in low sec don't seem to blink over taking carriers into L5s and pimped out faction BS's into L4s and pimped out deadspace fit bombers into FW missions. And in a lot of ways the population density of hostiles in low sec is higher than that of 0.0.
-Liang This all makes perfect sense... ...if that carrier is doing only PvE. Carriers are multi-purpose. It's easy -- trivial, even -- to refit them from PvP to PvE at a moment's notice. And if you're regularly using that carrier for the benefit of your corporation or alliance, there's going to be enough risk to justify insuring it. If you can then leverage that insurance premium into making a profit, then so much the better. I think you're missing the larger picture, Liang. People can use ships for more than one thing...
They can use ships for more than one thing, but its not the best idea. PvE ships are your bread and butter. They buy your ammo, your fuel, you everything. You use them conservatively.
If you refit your PvE archon to pvp and it goes pop, chances are that you just lost the ship that makes you the money that you and your corp rely on.
Despite the general level of idiocy in eve, I figured that most people by now had worked out that shitting where you eat is ********. If you wanna pewpew, get a specific ship to pew pew in, so that when that ship goes pop (and it will, it is dead from the second it undocks) you aren't suddenly adrift with no easy way to get back on the horse.
It's just common sense.
You don't take your company car into a demolition derby, for example. It may be cheaper for the first time you take it out, because you only need one ship (or car) but once you've had your fun and thing explode you are left with no way to get into the next event. |
Aamrr
206
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Posted - 2012.01.05 19:12:00 -
[22] - Quote
If a ship is so vital that you absolutely cannot be without it for even a moment, one would think that you'd have a replacement for it. And since THAT one doesn't have to be insured, there's no cost for having it in reserve.
And for the rest of us that apparently can deal with having to wait a few hours while we get a replacement, we'll content ourselves with the fact that our insurance premium paid more than the cost of a T1 cruiser (T3's) or T1 battleship (pirate battleship).
Edit: And if you can't afford a duplicate, you obviously shouldn't be flying it in the first place -- don't fly what you can't afford to lose (or replace). |
Justin Cody
T.A.L.O.N. Company Psychotic Tendencies.
19
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Posted - 2012.01.05 20:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
Kiryu Oranos wrote:Hey guys, I'm fully trained for a carrier, and I was just wondering if its worth spending 800m + 150 to fit it, I would use it for PvE and Armor triage. -Kiryu
It is probably worth spending more than 150M to fit it. But yes it is worth it. Let me know if you plan on moving down to low sec solitude. We have lots of people here who would like to help you with your fits. |
AstarothPrime
Eternal Profiteers Eternal Syndicate
3
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Posted - 2012.01.05 21:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kaanchana wrote:AstarothPrime wrote:King Rothgar wrote:I once tackled and killed a thanny in a low sec belt with my revelation. That is all. You make it sound like its you look at carrier in your noobship and it explodes... It aint like this. Semi well fit archon with cap repper and cap recharge rigs has around 4000 DPS perma tank and needs 4-5 large neuts to hurt its cap down to the point where he actually starts to feel the neuting. If you solo popped carrier with subcap - he was definitely floating somewhere afk. But then again - youll never see solo attacks on carriers - fleets of 20 are more likely Regards I. I am pretty sure revelation is not a sub cap. And many ratting carrier killmails show them to have LAR fitted..
My bad about revelation 101% - kinda dislexic reading... nevertheless - if you solo tackled and popped a carrier in a dread it needed large balls and luck to execute Im more afraid of SBs packing a cyno and titan within 10ish ly ready to bridge a blob of eagerbeavers on me...
Fitting LAR on carrier is actually - WTF moment...
For the bloke saying there is no "XLAR" there is CAPITAL LAR which is just pure awesome...
I.
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
563
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Posted - 2012.01.05 21:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:All this talk about insuring your carrier and faction BS - that's totally silly talk unless you intend to neglect basic due diligence towards your personal safety. You have to remember that PVE ships don't pop that often and if your insurance expires you just wasted that ISK. And your insurance almost certainly will expire.
I'm really rather flabbergasted at how risk averse your average 0.0 denizen appears to be when compared to your average low sec denizen. People in low sec don't seem to blink over taking carriers into L5s and pimped out faction BS's into L4s and pimped out deadspace fit bombers into FW missions. And in a lot of ways the population density of hostiles in low sec is higher than that of 0.0.
-Liang This all makes perfect sense... ...if that carrier is doing only PvE. Carriers are multi-purpose. It's easy -- trivial, even -- to refit them from PvP to PvE at a moment's notice. And if you're regularly using that carrier for the benefit of your corporation or alliance, there's going to be enough risk to justify insuring it. If you can then leverage that insurance premium into making a profit, then so much the better. I think you're missing the larger picture, Liang. People can use ships for more than one thing...
Don't PVP in your PVE ship. Buy another carrier.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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AstarothPrime
Eternal Profiteers Eternal Syndicate
3
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Posted - 2012.01.05 21:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:All this talk about insuring your carrier and faction BS - that's totally silly talk unless you intend to neglect basic due diligence towards your personal safety. You have to remember that PVE ships don't pop that often and if your insurance expires you just wasted that ISK. And your insurance almost certainly will expire. -Liang
If we are talking about mandatory non insured 30% ship its:
250M upon carrier popping 25M upon faction BS popping
Provided they pretty much cost the same id rather lose cap fit 1.5B isk archon then faction fit 1.5B isk nightmare ;)
I. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
563
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Posted - 2012.01.05 21:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
My point was that insuring a PVE ship is silly since it just isn't going to pop that often - whether you're in high sec, low sec, or 0.0. Hell, you can even PVE in hostile 0.0 for months at a time without losing a ship.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
129
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Posted - 2012.01.05 22:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
AstarothPrime wrote:King Rothgar wrote:I once tackled and killed a thanny in a low sec belt with my revelation. That is all. You make it sound like its you look at carrier in your noobship and it explodes... It aint like this. Semi well fit archon with cap repper and cap recharge rigs has around 4000 DPS perma tank and needs 4-5 large neuts to hurt its cap down to the point where he actually starts to feel the neuting. If you solo popped carrier with subcap - he was definitely floating somewhere afk. But then again - youll never see solo attacks on carriers - fleets of 20 are more likely Regards I.
I'm in the mood to better explain that kill now. I and a buddy found a carrier "protecting" an orca and about 5-6 covetors in a low sec belt. It was only the two of us and we really wanted to give it a go, so we did. We used my revelation and his carrier (archon I think). The orca and most of the covetors got away, but I was able to tackle the thanny before it warped off while my buddy took out one or two sluggish miners. The thanny was a complete **** fit obviously else we wouldn't have been able to kill it with just one dread and a carrier.
Before he went down though, the miners went to their POS and swapped into some of the worst fit ships I've seen in all my time playing this game and we obviously wiped them out too. Only time I've ever alpha'd a drake. He was fit with no tank and loads of ECM. Yes, he attempted to ECM my sieged revelation. Obviously it didn't work. That corp was full of all kinds of special.
This took place about 2 years ago and the corp I was in is now defunct and thus so is the corp kb. It is on battleclinic but I really can't be bothered to sift through months of km's trying to find it, especially since there isn't any way to jump to specific pages on the kill list, have to move 3 pages at a time or something along those lines. |
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
56
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Posted - 2012.01.05 23:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
Aamrr wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:All this talk about insuring your carrier and faction BS - that's totally silly talk unless you intend to neglect basic due diligence towards your personal safety. You have to remember that PVE ships don't pop that often and if your insurance expires you just wasted that ISK. And your insurance almost certainly will expire.
I'm really rather flabbergasted at how risk averse your average 0.0 denizen appears to be when compared to your average low sec denizen. People in low sec don't seem to blink over taking carriers into L5s and pimped out faction BS's into L4s and pimped out deadspace fit bombers into FW missions. And in a lot of ways the population density of hostiles in low sec is higher than that of 0.0.
-Liang This all makes perfect sense... ...if that carrier is doing only PvE. Carriers are multi-purpose. It's easy -- trivial, even -- to refit them from PvP to PvE at a moment's notice. And if you're regularly using that carrier for the benefit of your corporation or alliance, there's going to be enough risk to justify insuring it. If you can then leverage that insurance premium into making a profit, then so much the better. I think you're missing the larger picture, Liang. People can use ships for more than one thing... Exactly, Aamrr. Carriers (especially those flown in small capital gangs) can flip fittings at a moment's notice (R&K actually had carriers swapping between triage and Pantheon fittings on the fly during one recent fight, resulting in the primed carrier having very high Pantheon-esque resists while being repped by the other carrier who was triaged). So, switching the same hull from PvE to PvP to back again on the fly would be not at all unexpected (think of getting jumped while double escalating a C5 anom, for instance). |
Leonova Klystra
Disingenuous Duality
28
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Posted - 2012.01.05 23:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
AstarothPrime wrote: * no site / rat can break its tank no matter how wrong u fit it
http://assetsus2.wordansassets.com/wordansfiles/images/2011/3/8/69466/69466_340.jpg?1299636737 |
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