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Aamrr
206
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Posted - 2012.01.06 00:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
Leonova Klystra wrote:A thoroughly entertaining post.
+1 to you, good sir. +1. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
563
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Posted - 2012.01.06 00:05:00 -
[32] - Quote
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:Aamrr wrote:Liang Nuren wrote:All this talk about insuring your carrier and faction BS - that's totally silly talk unless you intend to neglect basic due diligence towards your personal safety. You have to remember that PVE ships don't pop that often and if your insurance expires you just wasted that ISK. And your insurance almost certainly will expire.
I'm really rather flabbergasted at how risk averse your average 0.0 denizen appears to be when compared to your average low sec denizen. People in low sec don't seem to blink over taking carriers into L5s and pimped out faction BS's into L4s and pimped out deadspace fit bombers into FW missions. And in a lot of ways the population density of hostiles in low sec is higher than that of 0.0.
-Liang This all makes perfect sense... ...if that carrier is doing only PvE. Carriers are multi-purpose. It's easy -- trivial, even -- to refit them from PvP to PvE at a moment's notice. And if you're regularly using that carrier for the benefit of your corporation or alliance, there's going to be enough risk to justify insuring it. If you can then leverage that insurance premium into making a profit, then so much the better. I think you're missing the larger picture, Liang. People can use ships for more than one thing... Exactly, Aamrr. Carriers (especially those flown in small capital gangs) can flip fittings at a moment's notice (R&K actually had carriers swapping between triage and Pantheon fittings on the fly during one recent fight, resulting in the primed carrier having very high Pantheon-esque resists while being repped by the other carrier who was triaged). So, switching the same hull from PvE to PvP to back again on the fly would be not at all unexpected (think of getting jumped while double escalating a C5 anom, for instance).
This doesn't really change the fact that you should separate out your intended PVP ships from your intended PVE ships. Having 2 (or even more) carriers lets you grab the right one fitted for the job right now and get in the fight quicker and with less risk of ******* up your fit on accident.
Also, it can be cheaper than constantly swapping out rigs (if you've got some gimicky setup).
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Admiral Pelleon
White Shadow Imperium The Forsaken.
33
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Posted - 2012.01.06 01:24:00 -
[33] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:My point was that insuring a PVE ship is silly since it just isn't going to pop that often - whether you're in high sec, low sec, or 0.0. Hell, you can even PVE in hostile 0.0 for months at a time without losing a ship.
-Liang
Yep.
Last year during the GREAT NORTHERN WAR we jumped a carrier full of T3's into Delve and had a field day for over a month. Those who cannot keep up will be left behind, to watch from a distance. And those who stand in our way will not watch at all. |
Aamrr
206
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Posted - 2012.01.06 08:08:00 -
[34] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:This doesn't really change the fact that you should separate out your intended PVP ships from your intended PVE ships. Having 2 (or even more) carriers lets you grab the right one fitted for the job right now and get in the fight quicker and with less risk of ******* up your fit on accident.
Also, it can be cheaper than constantly swapping out rigs (if you've got some gimicky setup).
-Liang
I'm sorry. That's a non-argument. If you've been playing Eve long enough to skill into and purchase a carrier, you should be able to fit your ship properly. There's saved fittings, there's XML imports, there's all variety of tools to automate this stuff, even if your brain is too comotose to "drag module to slot. drag next module to slot."
If a ship is insured, rigs are really the ONLY reason you should be switching to another ship. And who uses anything but CCCs on their carriers anyway? |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
564
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Posted - 2012.01.06 08:12:00 -
[35] - Quote
Aamrr wrote: I'm sorry. That's a non-argument. If you've been playing Eve long enough to skill into and purchase a carrier, you should be able to fit your ship properly. There's saved fittings, there's XML imports, there's all variety of tools to automate this stuff, even if your brain is too comotose to "drag module to slot. drag next module to slot."
If a ship is insured, rigs are really the ONLY reason you should be switching to another ship. And who uses anything but CCCs on their carriers anyway?
If you've been playing Eve long enough to skill into a carrier, you should be able to buy multiple carriers. Don't intentionally PVP in your PVE ship. Its ******* stupid.
-Liang
Ed: Also... :) Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
129
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Posted - 2012.01.06 08:23:00 -
[36] - Quote
Liang is right on mixing pvp and pve ships. Years ago when I bought my first carrier, I immediately started running lvl5's so I could buy a second. The original carrier remained a pve only ship while the second one was used for pvp. I have maintained this setup ever since. Sure a triage archon and a pve archon both use CCC rigs, so I wouldn't lose anything if I just swapped saved fits. But it is far simpler to have two ships. You never have to worry about something glitching in the refit or screwing up and forgetting to put stront in it. Both are always ready to go as you need them fitted. And lets face it, if you're doing pve in a carrier, you should be rolling in isk very quickly.
Also, don't insure your pve ships ffs. What the hell. I'll admit I've lost a few over the years but keeping them insured would cost 10x as much as just taking the full loss when it happens. |
Death Toll007
Fleet of Doom
20
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Posted - 2012.01.06 08:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
OP: No it is not worth it.
From the sounds of your post you have been skilling and saving for this archon for some time. If you can afford the loss, then by all means, PvE in it.
Ultimately the Carrier is an excellent platform for either, but like all ships will have a learning curve. The learning curve for carriers is more expensive than most.
Now if your corporation has several capital capable pilots, or you are willing to move to a corporation with capital capable pilots, feel free to learn, would recommend first doing so on SISI... great way to have a cheap learning curve.
Ultimately it is your call.
-DT |
Aamrr
206
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Posted - 2012.01.06 08:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
You keep saying that, but you've got no quantitative argument to back it up. There's a clear and definite benefit for doing so -- you benefit from your insurance premium while participating in both PvE and PvP -- and there's absolutely no drawback.
If you've got a spare carrier as you suggest, then you won't be inconvenienced if you lose the first, no matter whether it was lost in PvE or PvP. Swap the modules in station, leave the stuff you don't need in the hangar, and you've got nothing more to lose than what you'd normally bring out -- except that now, you get an insurance payout if you're unfortunate enough to lose a ship during PvE activities.
"It's stupid" isn't an argument. "You get X benefit during Y activity at no additional Z cost" is an argument. Numbers, circumstantial advantages...all of these things are arguments. It seems like you've gotten rather out of practice in your hiatus. You could benefit from some review. And courtesy, for that matter. |
King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
129
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Posted - 2012.01.06 09:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
Swapping fits on a regular basis is asking for trouble. I don't know of anyone in game who has done so for any significant length of time that hasn't made a fatal error in doing so. It also takes a few minutes, even with the fits saved. Additionally, do not insure capitals, pve or pvp unless you are planning to lose it (ie cyno bait carrier). It just isn't cost effective. Thus there is no insurance advantage. I've never lost a pve carrier and I don't lose pvp carriers often enough to bother insuring those either. |
Ultim8Evil
Fly Drunk Fatal Ascension
6
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Posted - 2012.01.06 11:38:00 -
[40] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:If you've been playing Eve long enough to skill into a carrier, you should be able to buy multiple carriers. Don't intentionally PVP in your PVE ship. Its ******* stupid.
-Liang
Ed: Also... :)
Why is no-one listening to this person? |
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mama guru
Evolution
22
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Posted - 2012.01.06 14:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
PVE carriers are cheap as hell to fit. And most carriers are rigged at 3x CCC's for both pve and pvp. Having alternate fits for pvp is just fine, make sure you got enough isk to replace it after you loose it though. Replacing a carrier and moving it to wherever you rat is usually a one/half a day undertaking unless you are really cheap waiting for prices to drop like 30 mil.
But yes there are benefits to having both a pvp and a pve carrier, but chanses are high the pvp carrier will just sit there for a very long time. Meanwhile that carrier represents isk you are not trading with and so on. ______
EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's to hard you are to weak. |
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
56
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Posted - 2012.01.06 14:39:00 -
[42] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Aamrr wrote: I'm sorry. That's a non-argument. If you've been playing Eve long enough to skill into and purchase a carrier, you should be able to fit your ship properly. There's saved fittings, there's XML imports, there's all variety of tools to automate this stuff, even if your brain is too comotose to "drag module to slot. drag next module to slot."
If a ship is insured, rigs are really the ONLY reason you should be switching to another ship. And who uses anything but CCCs on their carriers anyway?
If you've been playing Eve long enough to skill into a carrier, you should be able to buy multiple carriers. Don't intentionally PVP in your PVE ship. Its ******* stupid. -Liang Ed: Also... :) You're looking at this from the wrong perspective. Think of it as having to PvE in your PvP ship (surprisingly doable, actually: I've done it before, plenty of times). ;) |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army
566
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Posted - 2012.01.06 17:36:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote: You're looking at this from the wrong perspective. Think of it as having to PvE in your PvP ship (surprisingly doable, actually: I've done it before, plenty of times). ;)
As long as you're PVEing in your straight up PVE fit I wouldn't really care. But, for example, one of my PVP carriers doesn't have anything but ECM drones....
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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