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Xeliya
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.03 08:55:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Xeliya on 03/06/2007 08:54:54 Cyno jammers need to be moved to Sov 4.
Why do you ask?
Alliance A is attacking Alliance B Alliance A reinforces some towers in Alliance B's system Alliance B sets up a cyno jammer at a death star Alliance B then gets 10-20 Carriers and a support fleet ready to defend the Cyno Jammer Alliance B tells their Carriers to all fit remote reps and keep the Cyno Jammer alive
There will be no way to kill a cyno jammer with a support fleet unless it cannot be remote repped. And TBH you should need major investment to keep hostile caps out which is why it should be sov 4.
Now you say log off you Capital fleet in system, well that is no tactic since not everyone wants to be possibley stuck in a hostile system for 4 days in a dread.
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Axhind
Caldari Ex Coelis
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Posted - 2007.06.03 12:48:00 -
[2]
I guess that this will force the old tactic of attacking several systems at once so that defenders can't react in time (unless they have very few systems and than it's probably ok.
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Coeus Iapetus
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2007.06.03 22:27:00 -
[3]
MC just dont want cyno jammers ingame because then they cannot use there massive capital fleet. They max out at about 140-150 support if that. MC capital fleet will be completely useless to most alliances that can bring together roughly 300 pilots.
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Xeliya
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.03 22:37:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Xeliya on 03/06/2007 22:42:05
Originally by: Axhind I guess that this will force the old tactic of attacking several systems at once so that defenders can't react in time (unless they have very few systems and than it's probably ok.
You just need a cyno in each system and you can move that blob of carriers to the cyno jammer in less then 10 seconds.
Originally by: Coeus Iapetus MC just dont want cyno jammers ingame because then they cannot use there massive capital fleet. They max out at about 140-150 support if that. MC capital fleet will be completely useless to most alliances that can bring together roughly 300 pilots.
Actually it will help us as we can stop people from attacking our capital yards when were not home, send 10 carriers home and GG they can't finish the job. It is bad for everyone.
Also show me where I said remove them? they either need to not be able to be remote repped as a support fleet of 300 wont even kill one with the Tri mod coming. Or move it to sov 4 so the 3 outposts per const has a huge advantage.
Ill also make sure I post with my alt next time
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Axhind
Caldari Ex Coelis
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Posted - 2007.06.04 03:31:00 -
[5]
Wait. So Cyno jammer is just for the grid? Not the whole system? What the hell is the point than? How hard is it to warp in ships compared to cyno?
/me goes to read dev blogs and sisi descriptions
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ghosttr
Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.04 03:48:00 -
[6]
The idea is that not every system in constellation will have jammers. You would need to take 1 system in the constellation to drop the sov level & offline all cyno jammers in the constellation.
Make Mining Better |
Xeliya
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.04 07:11:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Xeliya on 04/06/2007 07:10:40
Originally by: ghosttr The idea is that not every system in constellation will have jammers. You would need to take 1 system in the constellation to drop the sov level & offline all cyno jammers in the constellation.
That's the thing cyno jammers only need sov 3 which is not const sov. Const sov is lv4 which is why I say the jammers should require lv4. Sov 3 is 30days having the system which most people will get easy.
Originally by: Axhind Wait. So Cyno jammer is just for the grid? Not the whole system? What the hell is the point than? How hard is it to warp in ships compared to cyno?
/me goes to read dev blogs and sisi descriptions
No it nukes the whole system.
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Antiope
Cataclysm Enterprises Kraftwerk.
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Posted - 2007.06.04 07:51:00 -
[8]
have you tested it?, last time i did friendly cyno arrays go offline when it is active and not even the corp owning the cyno jammer is able to activate a cynosural field on a ship
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Xeliya
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.04 10:01:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Xeliya on 04/06/2007 10:02:22 Edited by: Xeliya on 04/06/2007 10:00:42
Originally by: Antiope have you tested it?, last time i did friendly cyno arrays go offline when it is active and not even the corp owning the cyno jammer is able to activate a cynosural field on a ship
Ah my understanding was friendlies could still jump so that rules out the moving carriers around, however for someone like MC we can put 5-10 carriers in each station system we own so it really would still be an issue of us sitting there to remote rep the jammer while the POS makes everyone else go boom or if people are trying to get at a Capital Yard we can put everyone in that system alone
What's even worse is you can set a Titan on the in gate and have the gate bubbled hardcore or even set it at the POS and kill most of their BS fleet.
As I said unless they disable remote repping of require sov 4 I think the thing is bad for the game. If they did either thing I think it will be a great addition, right now it will just be a get out of free card if you play it right.
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CCP Greyscale
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Posted - 2007.06.04 10:10:00 -
[10]
Just to clear up some misconceptions in this thread:
1) Cyno jammers are system-wide, and prevent any cynos from being formed. Currently you can still jump bridge into a jammed system, but that's the only way to bring capitals in
2) Sov 4 is not constellation sovereignty. There's a dev blog coming that will explain all of this
3) It's anchored outside the forcefield, so it's entirely vulnerable to well-planned sneak attacks
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Antiope
Cataclysm Enterprises Kraftwerk.
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Posted - 2007.06.04 10:11:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Xeliya Edited by: Xeliya on 04/06/2007 10:02:22 Edited by: Xeliya on 04/06/2007 10:00:42
Originally by: Antiope have you tested it?, last time i did friendly cyno arrays go offline when it is active and not even the corp owning the cyno jammer is able to activate a cynosural field on a ship
Ah my understanding was friendlies could still jump so that rules out the moving carriers around, however for someone like MC we can put 5-10 carriers in each station system we own so it really would still be an issue of us sitting there to remote rep the jammer while the POS makes everyone else go boom or if people are trying to get at a Capital Yard we can put everyone in that system alone
What's even worse is you can set a Titan on the in gate and have the gate bubbled hardcore or even set it at the POS and kill most of their BS fleet.
As I said unless they disable remote repping of require sov 4 I think the thing is bad for the game. If they did either thing I think it will be a great addition, right now it will just be a get out of free card if you play it right.
you have 20-40 carriers spare during a 0.0 contract
joke aside, pos warfare gets harder for sure, but if somebody wants it, it's not an issue, as more and more caps come, and this game already is capital ships online in 0.0
I doubt you will have a titan sitting in those bubbles in rev 2
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Verite Rendition
Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.
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Posted - 2007.06.04 10:19:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Verite Rendition on 04/06/2007 10:18:16
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
1) Cyno jammers are system-wide, and prevent any cynos from being formed. Currently you can still jump bridge into a jammed system, but that's the only way to bring capitals in
So capitals can use the Jump Bridge Array? How about Titan-generated Jump Bridges? I thought all this stuff was restricted to non-jump capable ships. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic |
Xeliya
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.04 10:22:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Xeliya on 04/06/2007 10:21:45
Originally by: Antiope you have 20-40 carriers spare during a 0.0 contract
joke aside, pos warfare gets harder for sure, but if somebody wants it, it's not an issue, as more and more caps come, and this game already is capital ships online in 0.0
I doubt you will have a titan sitting in those bubbles in rev 2
A Titan DD hits upto 250km you can cloak him 200km away from the gate then uncloak and DD, as for defending while out on contract ask AAA and D2 how fast we can get back
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Just to clear up some misconceptions in this thread:
1) Cyno jammers are system-wide, and prevent any cynos from being formed. Currently you can still jump bridge into a jammed system, but that's the only way to bring capitals in
2) Sov 4 is not constellation sovereignty. There's a dev blog coming that will explain all of this
3) It's anchored outside the forcefield, so it's entirely vulnerable to well-planned sneak attacks
Thanks for clearing up the Sov 4 I was under the impression that was const sov, must have mis-read the blob when it came out.
How ever to a sneak attack still doesn't do much to dedicated alliance with a nice Capital Fleet. I can tell you right now if we were to have a Capital yard get hit we could easily cover a new cyno jammer for a good 24 hours with multiple carriers/moms.
So remote repping is still an issue.
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Virtuozzo
IVC Consortium INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.06.04 10:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Just to clear up some misconceptions in this thread:
1) Cyno jammers are system-wide, and prevent any cynos from being formed. Currently you can still jump bridge into a jammed system, but that's the only way to bring capitals in
2) Sov 4 is not constellation sovereignty. There's a dev blog coming that will explain all of this
3) It's anchored outside the forcefield, so it's entirely vulnerable to well-planned sneak attacks
jump bridges right? so not jump bridges and portals anymore?
Virtuozzo
Last words of a Caldari general: "Pull the Ravens back! Full retreat! they've got frigates!" *snip* Inappropriate. -Elmo Pug |
JiJiCle
Gallente COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.06.04 11:04:00 -
[15]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Just to clear up some misconceptions in this thread:
1) Cyno jammers are system-wide, and prevent any cynos from being formed. Currently you can still jump bridge into a jammed system, but that's the only way to bring capitals in
2) Sov 4 is not constellation sovereignty. There's a dev blog coming that will explain all of this
3) It's anchored outside the forcefield, so it's entirely vulnerable to well-planned sneak attacks
capital ship sized ship using a jump bridge/jump portal ?
other question, what's the effect of a cyno array + cyno jammer at the same time ? do the cyno array still work? is it jammed like a normal cyno ? one cant even come online if the other already is ?
regarding 1) + 3), how can you kill a cyno jammer (1+ M armor HP ?) when the defender can remote it with carriers(and maybe triaging(?) carriers) when you can't have any capital to help you ? you speak of sneak attack, but only 2 or 3 guys could easily control 8-12 guns and kill a BS fleet running around the attacked cyno jammer POS even without any defender present you need a f**cking huge amount a firepower(blob limitation? ) ------ COLSUP |
Axhind
Caldari Ex Coelis
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Posted - 2007.06.04 13:42:00 -
[16]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Just to clear up some misconceptions in this thread:
1) Cyno jammers are system-wide, and prevent any cynos from being formed. Currently you can still jump bridge into a jammed system, but that's the only way to bring capitals in
2) Sov 4 is not constellation sovereignty. There's a dev blog coming that will explain all of this
3) It's anchored outside the forcefield, so it's entirely vulnerable to well-planned sneak attacks
Does 1 mean that Titan can be used to enter the jammed system? I thought that whole point of this addition was to make super caps a bit less useful on the field. This way you would be crazy to cyno jamm your own system unless you have a titan. Imagine if they didn't destroy it after using jump bridge...
3) I guess this is function of how much damage you need to dish out and if defenders are able to rep the module. I guess that gatecamps will be even more important now in order to lock down the system. Still it comes back to Titan ownership (if you can jump bridge in caps that way).
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Antiope
Cataclysm Enterprises Kraftwerk.
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Posted - 2007.06.04 13:42:00 -
[17]
Originally by: JiJiCle
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Just to clear up some misconceptions in this thread:
1) Cyno jammers are system-wide, and prevent any cynos from being formed. Currently you can still jump bridge into a jammed system, but that's the only way to bring capitals in
2) Sov 4 is not constellation sovereignty. There's a dev blog coming that will explain all of this
3) It's anchored outside the forcefield, so it's entirely vulnerable to well-planned sneak attacks
capital ship sized ship using a jump bridge/jump portal ?
other question, what's the effect of a cyno array + cyno jammer at the same time ? do the cyno array still work? is it jammed like a normal cyno ? one cant even come online if the other already is ?
regarding 1) + 3), how can you kill a cyno jammer (1+ M armor HP ?) when the defender can remote it with carriers(and maybe triaging(?) carriers) when you can't have any capital to help you ? you speak of sneak attack, but only 2 or 3 guys could easily control 8-12 guns and kill a BS fleet running around the attacked cyno jammer POS even without any defender present you need a f**cking huge amount a firepower(blob limitation? )
titan jump bridges require a cyno field in the destination --> not possible with cyno jammer
you can't online cyno generator pos module if jammer is online
all online cyno generator pos modules go instant offline when the jammer goes online
I hope the twined jump bridges are bugged allowing capital ships tobe moved
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Miyamoto Uroki
Katsu Corporation Pure.
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Posted - 2007.06.04 13:57:00 -
[18]
me thinks that the dev is talking about the twinned jump bridge pos structures as the only way of entering a cyno jammed system. Nothing else would make sense. If it works this way, you can still bring in your own capitals via a friendly pos in one of the neighbouring systems... but don't let the enemy capital fleet find out which one the bridge is. ^^ -----------------
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JiJiCle
Gallente COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.06.04 14:52:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Antiope titan jump bridges require a cyno field in the destination --> not possible with cyno jammer
does it work in the 2 ways ? let me explain. moving a fleet from system A to B titan in A, opening a cyno in B, fleet jump. titan in B, opening a cyno in A on the fleet, fleet jump to titan.
if the 2nd case work, then a cyno jammed system can be reenforced via a jump portal, but you need to make in enter the system before the jam (or stored in a capital ship array ) if not, only with a jump bridge array
Originally by: Antiope I hope the twined jump bridges are bugged allowing capital ships tobe moved
same, capital fleet vs. no capital fleet make no sense.
forcing a "classic" fleet fight to kill the cyno jammer would be much cool, even if very hard for the attacker and then when unjammed, the caps and supercaps and make their demolition job ------ COLSUP |
Darpz
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.06.04 15:38:00 -
[20]
allowing titans to override a jumpbridge is pointless. cynojammers is supposed to give the little guy a chance. but this just lets the little guy be pwned by the big guy.
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Dal Thrax
Caldari Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective
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Posted - 2007.06.04 15:40:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Axhind I guess that this will force the old tactic of attacking several systems at once so that defenders can't react in time (unless they have very few systems and than it's probably ok.
Still has the problem with the defenders being able to set Stront timers but yes somewhat more viable now.
Dal Things I learned playing PnP RPGs:
1)Always assume that the players will bring the maximum available firepower against a peaceful objective.
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Dal Thrax
Caldari Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective
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Posted - 2007.06.04 15:42:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Antiope have you tested it?, last time i did friendly cyno arrays go offline when it is active and not even the corp owning the cyno jammer is able to activate a cynosural field on a ship
Does this include the new POS mounted jumpbridges?
Dal Things I learned playing PnP RPGs:
1)Always assume that the players will bring the maximum available firepower against a peaceful objective.
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Dal Thrax
Caldari Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective
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Posted - 2007.06.04 15:48:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Antiope
Originally by: JiJiCle
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Just to clear up some misconceptions in this thread:
1) Cyno jammers are system-wide, and prevent any cynos from being formed. Currently you can still jump bridge into a jammed system, but that's the only way to bring capitals in
2) Sov 4 is not constellation sovereignty. There's a dev blog coming that will explain all of this
3) It's anchored outside the forcefield, so it's entirely vulnerable to well-planned sneak attacks
capital ship sized ship using a jump bridge/jump portal ?
other question, what's the effect of a cyno array + cyno jammer at the same time ? do the cyno array still work? is it jammed like a normal cyno ? one cant even come online if the other already is ?
regarding 1) + 3), how can you kill a cyno jammer (1+ M armor HP ?) when the defender can remote it with carriers(and maybe triaging(?) carriers) when you can't have any capital to help you ? you speak of sneak attack, but only 2 or 3 guys could easily control 8-12 guns and kill a BS fleet running around the attacked cyno jammer POS even without any defender present you need a f**cking huge amount a firepower(blob limitation? )
titan jump bridges require a cyno field in the destination --> not possible with cyno jammer
you can't online cyno generator pos module if jammer is online
all online cyno generator pos modules go instant offline when the jammer goes online
I hope the twined jump bridges are bugged allowing capital ships tobe moved
Is there a fuel requirement on these things? If you can just put one up and keep it up 23/7 in all your systems that about ends most offensive use of capships.
Dal Things I learned playing PnP RPGs:
1)Always assume that the players will bring the maximum available firepower against a peaceful objective.
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Antiope
Cataclysm Enterprises Kraftwerk.
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Posted - 2007.06.04 16:10:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Dal Thrax
Originally by: Antiope have you tested it?, last time i did friendly cyno arrays go offline when it is active and not even the corp owning the cyno jammer is able to activate a cynosural field on a ship
Does this include the new POS mounted jumpbridges?
Dal
sadly i can't answer that, i never reached souv 3 after the module got seeded, but from the dev posting above it doesn't look like they go offline, bug or intended ?
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Antiope
Cataclysm Enterprises Kraftwerk.
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Posted - 2007.06.04 16:12:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Dal Thrax
Is there a fuel requirement on these things? If you can just put one up and keep it up 23/7 in all your systems that about ends most offensive use of capships.
Dal
only a fuel use like all other pos modules, currently 750 000 Powergrid on SISI
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RedClaws
Amarr Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.06.05 08:09:00 -
[26]
use stealth bombers with cap neutralizing bombs on that blob
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MotherMoon
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Posted - 2007.06.05 09:35:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Axhind
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Just to clear up some misconceptions in this thread:
1) Cyno jammers are system-wide, and prevent any cynos from being formed. Currently you can still jump bridge into a jammed system, but that's the only way to bring capitals in
2) Sov 4 is not constellation sovereignty. There's a dev blog coming that will explain all of this
3) It's anchored outside the forcefield, so it's entirely vulnerable to well-planned sneak attacks
Does 1 mean that Titan can be used to enter the jammed system? I thought that whole point of this addition was to make super caps a bit less useful on the field. This way you would be crazy to cyno jamm your own system unless you have a titan. Imagine if they didn't destroy it after using jump bridge...
3) I guess this is function of how much damage you need to dish out and if defenders are able to rep the module. I guess that gatecamps will be even more important now in order to lock down the system. Still it comes back to Titan ownership (if you can jump bridge in caps that way).
a titan jumping into a system without other caps? I don't see this happening
and all you have to do is get your battleship fleet in there kill the jam and start moving in the troops
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Xeliya
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.05 11:09:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Xeliya on 05/06/2007 11:12:10
Originally by: MotherMoon and all you have to do is get your battleship fleet in there kill the jam and start moving in the troops
You know how impossible that is if you have 10+ carriers in Triange mode repping it?
Originally by: RedClaws use stealth bombers with cap neutralizing bombs on that blob
Would take about 50-70+ of these to neut a capital then considering carrier setup for cap recharge and a mild tank can get its 70-80k cap to a recharge time less then 700 sec which can maintain a remote rep around 65% cap.
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Lenaria
Caldari Draconis Navitas Aeterna
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Posted - 2007.06.05 11:11:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Lenaria on 05/06/2007 11:10:58 Edited by: Lenaria on 05/06/2007 11:10:36 Cynojammers in its current form seems pretty bad idea, horribly favoring stronger alliances in defence. While you probably can reinforce enemy POS by surprise attack, there is no way anyone will be able to bring cynojammer down when POS will come out of reinforced. I mean, 40-50+ capships + support on defender side and ONLY BS support on attackers side? Not even funny...
This issue needs to be adressed - allthought i cant image how...
============================================== 1 Titan is ok, 2 kills any fun, 3 make peoples quit eve. No wonder online numbers decline for 3rd month. |
Xeliya
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.05 11:16:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lenaria Edited by: Lenaria on 05/06/2007 11:10:58 Edited by: Lenaria on 05/06/2007 11:10:36 Cynojammers in its current form seems pretty bad idea, horribly favoring stronger alliances in defence. While you probably can reinforce enemy POS by surprise attack, there is no way anyone will be able to bring cynojammer down when POS will come out of reinforced. I mean, 40-50+ capships + support on defender side and ONLY BS support on attackers side? Not even funny...
This issue needs to be adressed - allthought i cant image how...
If the jammer cannot be remote repped a suicide BS fleet of 10-20 can easily kill it, but being remote repped is a very different story.
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