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Gragnor
Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.05 13:57:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Gragnor on 05/06/2007 13:57:19 Edited by: Gragnor on 05/06/2007 13:56:39 Cyno jammers will fundamentally alter POS siege warfare. Rather than capital ship blobs (which I am seeing more and more often), battleships will be restored to their place of primacy on the battlefield. It means that running around in a super-capital heavy fleet will be useless - cyno jammers actually give the capital ship-light Alliances a better chance of defending their core systems.
Rather than disempowering smaller alliances, this will encourage more alliances (especially at sovreignty level 3) to take a little piece of space as their own as now they can prevent 20 dreads and 20 carriers and god knows what else jumping into their system, locking it down and methodically destroying their pos's and taking sovreignty in one day. Now non-capital ship raids will be required to take out the cyno jammers and the like.
Even better; imagine a capital ship pilot's horror when their fleet takes down a cyno jammer - jump in and all of a sudden find out another cyno jammer has gone up; preventing the infamous/notorious jump out of system if in danger tactic of most super-capital pilots.
Will this deter or prevent blobbing? No. But the new solo WTFPWN mobiles of Eve (super-capitals) will be very vulnerable if they come in unsupported.
And that's they way its supposed to be.
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Lenaria
Caldari Draconis Navitas Aeterna
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Posted - 2007.06.05 14:38:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Lenaria on 05/06/2007 14:42:10
13:57:19 Edited by: Gragnor on 05/06/2007 13:56:39 Cyno jammers will fundamentally alter POS siege warfare. Rather than capital ship blobs (which I am seeing more and more often), battleships will be restored to their place of primacy on the battlefield. It means that running around in a super-capital heavy fleet will be useless - cyno jammers actually give the capital ship-light Alliances a better chance of defending their core systems. .
You didnt got it, right? The WHOLE problem here is what BS fleet will become even more useless - as defending side will field capfleet in defence, and attackers will be forced to use BS only... these, frankly, will be completely useless against overhelming capital fleet.
This will make smaller alliances unable to attack at all. They defence will be somewhat buffed - but not by much, as Tier A superpower will always beat second-tier alliance easy cynojammers or not. The change will greatly favor defenders - but only already very capable defenders with strong capfleet. It will become almost impossible to attack them.
============================================== 1 Titan is ok, 2 kills any fun, 3 make peoples quit eve. No wonder online numbers decline for 3rd month. |
Jackson Murphy
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Posted - 2007.06.05 14:56:00 -
[33]
Yeah let the carrier enter traige mode and use all there cap on the Jam. In the sec the BS fleet concentrat the fire on the carrier. one less carrier to worrie about.
Remember Carrier in Triage Cannt be remote repaired or energy boosted.
gl in tanking 15 - 20 bs with only one Captial Armor Rep and no Cap :))
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Erfnam
Time Cube Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.06.05 15:05:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Jackson Murphy Yeah let the carrier enter traige mode and use all there cap on the Jam. In the sec the BS fleet concentrat the fire on the carrier. one less carrier to worrie about.
Remember Carrier in Triage Cannt be remote repaired or energy boosted.
gl in tanking 15 - 20 bs with only one Captial Armor Rep and no Cap :))
The established alliances would not have a problem fielding 10+ carriers to defend a cyno. With that many carriers, you don't need to siege. How long can 15-20 BS survive 50+ fighters before they become useless? The cyno jammer gives the defender the option to have a cap fleet, but the attacker can only use smaller ships. This will tip the already lopsided scale that is 0.0. Sales: Capital Ships | Covetors Delivered - Bulk/Package/BYOM |
quellious
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.06.05 15:41:00 -
[35]
Some comments about cyno jammers:
Most of the time POS warfare is about getting reinforced mode ending in the time zone you chosed. The one with the bigger brute force at that given time tends to win the fight.
With cyno jammers i would predict that 'sneack attack' as mentionned before will look like a BS/CS fleet attacking the cyno jammer outside of your prime time, then jumping a capital fleet in the system. (If both attacker and defender shares the same prime time, i'd think about 3am clock, and account sharing to jump capital so they are ready for prime time attack, in violation to eula). You might not be attacked in your prime time with a capital fleet jumping dirrectly on your POS. And you only can use a capital fleet if the attacker just spam your system with POS to buy the sovereignty.
Counter attack consist in recruiting over all time zone, in order to have a few carriers available almost 24/24, to remote the cyno jammer. Another very easier counter attack consists in spying in order to know when attack would start.
Clearly, sov lvl3 gives a huge advantage to defenders (with same sized fleets). Being able to use capital ships when the other cannot helps a lot. I can already imagine some complete region, or 0.0 access under sov 3 and cynosural jammers.
2 last comments: - just imagine if all systems 10 ly around a supercapital factory are under sov lvl3 ... - you cannot cyno jamm non conquerable stations. Maybe conquerable area will become a better chose for stability.
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Did you noticed that a pendulum does not swing in deep space ? |
hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.05 19:18:00 -
[36]
Burst damage.
There will be nothing left to repair if the jammer loses all HP at once.
That's what the stealth bombers are for (finally they are getting a role). Get a bunch of them, coordinate the attack, position in range to strike the jammer while cloaked. Uncloak all at once and nuke the jammer simultaneously.
== Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
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Effei Gloom
Minmatar eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.06.05 19:23:00 -
[37]
1. you need to destroy the enemy cyno jammer first, only one can be anchored.
2. you need SOV in that system
3. you need a sov lvl of 2 or 3... not that easy to get
4. any even then, you got a cyno jammer in any system, maybe not even the capital system? (i think cyno jammers work for all or none)
- next minnie Outpost bpc me:5 available in 25 days - |
Vicious Phoenix
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Posted - 2007.06.05 20:25:00 -
[38]
Originally by: JiJiCle regarding 1) + 3), how can you kill a cyno jammer (1+ M armor HP ?) when the defender can remote it with carriers(and maybe triaging(?) carriers) when you can't have any capital to help you ?
Well triage carriers have less than no cap sustainability and they have zero DPS, so maybe you could kill them?
CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
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Vicious Phoenix
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Posted - 2007.06.05 20:28:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Lenaria
You didnt got it, right? The WHOLE problem here is what BS fleet will become even more useless - as defending side will field capfleet in defence, and attackers will be forced to use BS only... these, frankly, will be completely useless against overhelming capital fleet.
Well if it prevents ALL cynos then you can't jump caps in to defend so you need to keep them there all the time. If the enemy's "overwhelming cap fleet" is stuck in their home system you don't have to worry about it attacking you, that's a good thing.
CFW (Certified Forum Warrior) I kill people ingame too.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.
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Dal Thrax
Caldari Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective
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Posted - 2007.06.05 21:27:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Vicious Phoenix
Originally by: Lenaria
You didnt got it, right? The WHOLE problem here is what BS fleet will become even more useless - as defending side will field capfleet in defence, and attackers will be forced to use BS only... these, frankly, will be completely useless against overhelming capital fleet.
Well if it prevents ALL cynos then you can't jump caps in to defend so you need to keep them there all the time. If the enemy's "overwhelming cap fleet" is stuck in their home system you don't have to worry about it attacking you, that's a good thing.
I think the problem is that they can take their cyno blocker offline at will to jump caps in while the attacker is blocked. Now if once a Cyno blocker went active you couldn't deactivate it for 24 hours that would cause things to become tactically more interesting.
Dal Things I learned playing PnP RPGs:
1)Always assume that the players will bring the maximum available firepower against a peaceful objective.
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Gragnor
Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.05 23:41:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Lenaria Edited by: Lenaria on 05/06/2007 14:42:10
13:57:19 Edited by: Gragnor on 05/06/2007 13:56:39 Cyno jammers will fundamentally alter POS siege warfare. Rather than capital ship blobs (which I am seeing more and more often), battleships will be restored to their place of primacy on the battlefield. It means that running around in a super-capital heavy fleet will be useless - cyno jammers actually give the capital ship-light Alliances a better chance of defending their core systems. .
You didnt got it, right? The WHOLE problem here is what BS fleet will become even more useless - as defending side will field capfleet in defence, and attackers will be forced to use BS only... these, frankly, will be completely useless against overhelming capital fleet.
This will make smaller alliances unable to attack at all. They defence will be somewhat buffed - but not by much, as Tier A superpower will always beat second-tier alliance easy cynojammers or not. The change will greatly favor defenders - but only already very capable defenders with strong capfleet. It will become almost impossible to attack them.
But I DO get it. Do you? All of a sudden POS siege warfare is going to become MUCH tougher and you actually get rewarded for investing in the infrastructure of your core systems. And with an inability to jump into or out of systems - who is going to put a capital ship where it cannot get out? No-one. Battleships and the like will become the core of your fleet which is as it should be. First you clear the space, take out the cyno jammers; then you jump in your capital fleet.
Capital ship blobs will become meaningless as no one will be able to use them until the cyno jammer is down. And these jammers will be used in all systems, which means that freighters will be seen in zero sec to shift lots of good stuff around.
Taking a station now becomes a prolonged siege requiring planning, multiple uses of various types of ships and tactics. Bit of a change from capital blob warfare now huh?
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Lenaria
Caldari Draconis Navitas Aeterna
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Posted - 2007.06.06 01:01:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Gragnor
But I DO get it. Do you? All of a sudden POS siege warfare is going to become MUCH tougher and you actually get rewarded for investing in the infrastructure of your core systems. And with an inability to jump into or out of systems - who is going to put a capital ship where it cannot get out? No-one. Battleships and the like will become the core of your fleet which is as it should be. First you clear the space, take out the cyno jammers; then you jump in your capital fleet.
Capital ship blobs will become meaningless as no one will be able to use them until the cyno jammer is down. And these jammers will be used in all systems, which means that freighters will be seen in zero sec to shift lots of good stuff around.
Taking a station now becomes a prolonged siege requiring planning, multiple uses of various types of ships and tactics. Bit of a change from capital blob warfare now huh?
1. It is CYNO jammers. Not JUMP jammers. As such you will be always able to jump OUT of system. 2. Killing POS is already facking boring and cost useally 10x as much as deploying it. 3. Capital ships blobs will remain just as usefull as is. BS fleet will become even more useless for the mentioned reasons - you cant really fight equal number of BS with a capship support. 4. Freighters.... looooll. Cynojammers will be onlined ONLY when POS come out of reinforced. No point to online CJ prior to it. 5. You should actually see what it is like 50 BS vs 50 BS + 30 dreads/carriers
============================================== 1 Titan is ok, 2 kills any fun, 3 make peoples quit eve. No wonder online numbers decline for 3rd month. |
Xeliya
Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.06 07:43:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Xeliya on 06/06/2007 07:46:45
Originally by: Jackson Murphy Yeah let the carrier enter traige mode and use all there cap on the Jam. In the sec the BS fleet concentrat the fire on the carrier. one less carrier to worrie about.
Remember Carrier in Triage Cannt be remote repaired or energy boosted.
gl in tanking 15 - 20 bs with only one Captial Armor Rep and no Cap :))
You know how hard it will be to kill a carrier setup for cap recharge at a hostile POS since they wont run out of cap, right now I can hold my remote rep or shield booster on with 65%+ cap. Tri mode will move that to about 40%.
Your support fleet will not last very long, if you have ever been at a deathstar with a BS fleet you will know how far you go pop. And now if we have a Titan on grid cloaked ready to make ya's all go boom, what are you to do?
This as I have been trying to say only favors defenders who have a vast capital fleet on their hands.
Considering it takes about 30min to get a Jammer online sneak attacks just are not a viable option and for larger alliances a 23 hour camp is not hard to pull off.
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Miyamoto Uroki
Katsu Corporation Pure.
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Posted - 2007.06.06 07:49:00 -
[44]
It was mentioned that the defender is still able to get his capital fleet into the system, even with cyno jammer active. That is via Jump Bridge array. Which also would be the prefered way to move your freighters/industrials which contain very valueable stuff. Although the Liquid Ozone fuel cost would be insane for a freighter.
However, this is all subject of speculation. We should just lean back and wait for the oncoming dev blog, clearing things up about sovereignty levels and conquering systems. -----------------
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Venatoris Portucalis
Equinox Eternal Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.06.07 13:56:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Venatoris Portucalis on 07/06/2007 14:19:35
Originally by: Lenaria
4. Freighters.... looooll. Cynojammers will be onlined ONLY when POS come out of reinforced. No point to online CJ prior to it.
lol, if you do that you already lost your POS, if you only going to online the jammer after the POS is under attack, where do you think the cap fleet will be? outside of the system politely wating for the jammer to go online so they cant jump in?
The views expressed here are my personal views, and in no way represent my corporation views. |
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