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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.06.07 09:44:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Robert Dobbs Edited by: Robert Dobbs on 07/06/2007 09:37:01 I disagree with the original poster.
We're taking the game, when we're done you're all gonna be f***ed.
So, who wants to try and stop us?
And here some people thought you might have learned from the gaffes Dianabolic made and which exploded in CCPs face last week
------------------------------------------------ Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.06.07 09:48:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Lord XSiV ...CCP has truly provided a balanced playground and once again it goes to show that when dealing with humans, the cream of the crop will always succeed and prevail over the meak and lazy.
So being an hardcore gamer makes you the cream of the crop of humanity?
/me pictures a wow slef-proclamed elite raider living in a basement rambling about how he's better than "lazy" people.
I know a few Bob players, and they are in no way better than the average TCF player, except that they played longer and have fatter wallets.
Bobs pvpers are better than average, but if you want to look at really good pvpers, go fight Outbreak, RAT, or Veto.
Originally by: Lord XSiV
...Flaming nonsense about T1 frigs, numbers vs quality and so on...
Yeah, the whole coalition consist only of Goonswarm, we're all in cheap T1 ships and we're dozen of thousands players all guilty in the CCP/GS thing.
Originally by: Lord XSiV
Quite simply put, Bob is structure and order whereas their opponents are chaos and anarchy.
Structure and order will always win. Human beings are just that way. Eve is no different.
As for the end of Eve because of the solitary rule - highly unlikely. If anything the order and structure BoB would bring to 0.0 space would do nothing but benefit the game. No longer would you have a certain alliance trying to destroy the game as they have a reputation for in other games; the opportunity to use some of the more lucrative revenue parts of the game (complexes) that have been traditionally monopolized by a certain alliance and most importantly there will no longer be many hurdles newer players experience trying to get to 0.0.
Bob is successfull because it's members are ready to make more sacrifices than most, and because they're none too shy about wading in gray areas. That others do it, too, is no excuse.
The coalition leadership made a big mistake by not cooperating past the first days, but that doesn't mean we're all jsut "chaos and anarchy".
Originally by: Lord XSiV
If you don't agree with the above, well that is ok. Not everyone has the intellect to look at the bigger picture or the comprehension skills to understand that there is more to the game than blobbing in t1 frigates.
"Everyone who disagree with me is an idiot, because I said so!"
------------------------------------------ A big nuke may be nice in a strategy game, but something like this in a game where every unit is a player, and each death costly, is insane. |
DarkFenix
Caldari Pilots Of Honour
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Posted - 2007.06.07 09:57:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Cringeley
Originally by: hermot The other things were isolated things done by members of the alliance (i.e the t20 thing) not done by the whole alliance.
1. Senior BoB leaders knew who t20 was and knowingly received secret information from him 2. BoB chose to keep and continue to use the ill-gotten BPOs (even if they didn't know that t20 spawned them, they knew he was a dev and shouldn't have accepted help from him) 3. Any member of BoB who chose to attach a DEV tag to his or her ship has chosen to associate him or herself with dev misconduct 4. In general, a man is judged by the company he keeps.
None of that means that the members of BoB are individually bad people or that they have cheated individually, but this idea that somehow their hands are completely clean is ridiculous. If you choose to march under somebody's flag then you have a responsibility, to yourself, to deal honestly with any mismatch between their ideals and your own. That could mean refusing to fight for them any more, or it could just mean openly saying "yeah they did X, Y and Z but I'm still having a lot of fun playing with them so suck it".
Typical GS cluelessness .
I was in BoB early this year. I joined about 6 months after the t20 event actually happened. I attached DEV tags to my ships. Am I associated with dev misconduct? I am? Cool. The fact that you people flog that dead horse so much is a joke. It was even a joke at the time, hence DEV tags. If that ****ed off GS and co. so much the better.
And do I even need to say anything about a GS member using point 4?
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Robert Dobbs
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.07 10:04:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Shadowsword Yeah, the whole coalition consist only of Goonswarm
If the "coalition" are supposed to be attacking us, and causing damage, then the coalition doesn't even exist.
--------- <Talon`dor|Work> Arma - yeah but we call BNC dirty boosterhoes |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.07 11:13:00 -
[125]
Who says bob makes good for eve is nuts. The huge nap lands exist because of BOB! As in real life, huge enemies create stability on the other regions and union in preparation to invasion. Unfortunately this union is usually weak and can 't do much really.
BOB concept of renting land and protecting the renter at least for me spoils 99% of game. Bein in an alliance that don 't need to fight to keep its groud, only scream BOBBB hellll.. is zero fun, zero sense of acomplishment.
BOB are good and fun for BOB only.
Personnaly i think some changes in game, specially WTZ made too easy to keep control of vast empires. That diminishes the oportunities in game for most people. The titans promply neutralize any guerillha, low scale or insurgent tacticvs, sicen you need capitals to do anythign on field. All that leads to boring game where we need huge NAP lands to be "safe" form BOB or any other HUGE alliance with huge count of capital ships that can cross new Eden in 10 minutes.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Kehmor
Caldari The Movement
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Posted - 2007.06.07 11:28:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Robert Dobbs
Originally by: Cringeley 4. In general, a man is judged by the company he keeps.
So you're inflatable with a suprised look on your face?
you win the forums today.
The Movement is recruiting! |
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.06.07 11:32:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon BOB concept of renting land and protecting the renter at least for me spoils 99% of game. Bein in an alliance that don 't need to fight to keep its groud, only scream BOBBB hellll.. is zero fun, zero sense of acomplishment.
Hum, there's something to that. I remember Bob saying time and again "You don't deserve to be in 0.0 if you can't defend yourself". But give them alliances without ambitions on their own to fill their wallet and hold their space for them, and they do a 180...
------------------------------------------ A big nuke may be nice in a strategy game, but something like this in a game where every unit is a player, and each death costly, is insane. |
Zzleeper
Amarr levisomnus spectatrix
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Posted - 2007.06.07 11:34:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Robert Dobbs
Originally by: Shadowsword Yeah, the whole coalition consist only of Goonswarm
If the "coalition" are supposed to be attacking us, and causing damage, then the coalition doesn't even exist.
Originally Posted by CCP Arkannon There are specific rules in place forbidding players from bragging about GM or developer connections
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Tobar Hadiak
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.07 11:38:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Considering how long they play and that they never played against opponents with the same resources in an even playfield, no the playground is not balanced. The balance is ridiculously offset to the side of an alliance that has as its only merit the fact that they started to play first and got "friends" within the game staff.
Why does war need to be balanced? and even I have a good relationship with a GM, I don't ask for stuff, we have laughs... he never offers stuff, I would never ask.
You need to understand that just because you have a social connection to a GM through seeing him at Fanfests and have a laugh with him, it does not mean he is going to perform magic tricks for you, let alone spawn you a Titan. You fail to address that BoB is being open about them having a social link to ccp staff (4 year friends etc) and the alliances like RA are exploiting this game through supporting isk for cash.
Redirect your flame
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.06.07 11:40:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Tobar Hadiak
Originally by: Etho Demerzel
Considering how long they play and that they never played against opponents with the same resources in an even playfield, no the playground is not balanced. The balance is ridiculously offset to the side of an alliance that has as its only merit the fact that they started to play first and got "friends" within the game staff.
Why does war need to be balanced? and even I have a good relationship with a GM, I don't ask for stuff, we have laughs... he never offers stuff, I would never ask.
You need to understand that just because you have a social connection to a GM through seeing him at Fanfests and have a laugh with him, it does not mean he is going to perform magic tricks for you, let alone spawn you a Titan. You fail to address that BoB is being open about them having a social link to ccp staff (4 year friends etc) and the alliances like RA are exploiting this game through supporting isk for cash.
Redirect your flame
You can have a social connection, but GMs should never know your in game character name and vice versa. Also GM's and DEVs should not use MSN at work if they have friend players in the contact list since its a temptation to not answer a request.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
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Meja
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.07 12:03:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Shadowsword I know a few Bob players, and they are in no way better than the average TCF player, except that they played longer and have fatter wallets.
Bobs pvpers are better than average, but if you want to look at really good pvpers, go fight Outbreak, RAT, or Veto.
These crap comments made my day... Next time, try to be funny as well, kthx
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Pesadel0
Ordem dos Templarios
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Posted - 2007.06.07 12:21:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: Robert Dobbs Edited by: Robert Dobbs on 07/06/2007 09:37:01 I disagree with the original poster.
We're taking the game, when we're done you're all gonna be f***ed.
So, who wants to try and stop us?
And here some people thought you might have learned from the gaffes Dianabolic made and which exploded in CCPs face last week
Indeed .
I was sworn to absolute secrecy BY CCP. |
Major Stormer
Caldari Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.06.07 12:32:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon Who says bob makes good for eve is nuts. The huge nap lands exist because of BOB! As in real life, huge enemies create stability on the other regions and union in preparation to invasion. Unfortunately this union is usually weak and can 't do much really.
BOB concept of renting land and protecting the renter at least for me spoils 99% of game. Bein in an alliance that don 't need to fight to keep its groud, only scream BOBBB hellll.. is zero fun, zero sense of acomplishment.
BOB are good and fun for BOB only.
Personnaly i think some changes in game, specially WTZ made too easy to keep control of vast empires. That diminishes the oportunities in game for most people. The titans promply neutralize any guerillha, low scale or insurgent tacticvs, sicen you need capitals to do anythign on field. All that leads to boring game where we need huge NAP lands to be "safe" form BOB or any other HUGE alliance with huge count of capital ships that can cross new Eden in 10 minutes.
This.
--------- Its just a game. Get over yourselfs. www.eve-tribune.com Dont get too excited now.
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Smith
Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.07 12:37:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Shadowsword
So being an hardcore gamer makes you the cream of the crop of humanity?
/me pictures a wow slef-proclamed elite raider living in a basement rambling about how he's better than "lazy" people.
I know a few Bob players, and they are in no way better than the average TCF player, except that they played longer and have fatter wallets.
Bobs pvpers are better than average, but if you want to look at really good pvpers, go fight Outbreak, RAT, or Veto.
Here we go "We only play part time cause we got a real life but if we did play hardcore WE would win"
TCF won any alliance tournaments?
Originally by: Shadowsword Bob is successfull because it's members are ready to make more sacrifices than most, and because they're none too shy about wading in gray areas. That others do it, too, is no excuse.
Im sorry but what...we going back to the part time thing again and if you were full time you be the best...okay then.
Originally by: Shadowsword The coalition leadership made a big mistake by not cooperating past the first days, but that doesn't mean we're all jsut "chaos and anarchy".
TBH I was shocked at your coalitions stratergy...it allowed BOB to deal with 1 small problem at a time instead of one mofo problem in Delve. Sure the casualty rate would of been higher if you went into delve but you would of made a bigger impact on BOB. But I guess its because you are not full time players?
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Xplained
Caldari Ticon Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.06.07 13:47:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Smith
Originally by: Shadowsword
So being an hardcore gamer makes you the cream of the crop of humanity?
/me pictures a wow slef-proclamed elite raider living in a basement rambling about how he's better than "lazy" people.
I know a few Bob players, and they are in no way better than the average TCF player, except that they played longer and have fatter wallets.
Bobs pvpers are better than average, but if you want to look at really good pvpers, go fight Outbreak, RAT, or Veto.
Here we go "We only play part time cause we got a real life but if we did play hardcore WE would win"
TCF won any alliance tournaments?
How could they? with all the Dev intervention in BOB i.e. T20 incident! MSN buddies, etc..
Were BOB using their MSN buddies to their advantage during the tournament?
You used to be good at what you were doing, what made you so corrupted?
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Marvn Riley
Amarr Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada
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Posted - 2007.06.07 13:55:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Etho Demerzel You are completely insane, and should learn history before making such claims.
I've read a good bit of history in both the symmetric, and assymetric warfare department, sir.
In fact, the first book I'd recommend to anyone is "How Wars are Won", with the Oxford Guide to Modern Warfare as a close second.
Close scrutiny (IOW the ideals/concepts easily applied to Eve) can be found easiest from the time of the American Revolution, onwards to the Island Hopping military bypass of World War II. Skip World War I areas for easy to get EvE lessons, but do not discount the underlying ideals utilized to force breakthroughs in that conflict.
The "numbers" you speak of only grant a tactical edge after the above points I listed have been applied. For every tactical/strategic edge you have over an adversary, more, and more numbers must be thrown into the equation to balance/counter balance it. The higher the advantage, the higher the numbers.
If numbers was all it took to be successful, let me give you two "weapon" advantages that decimated numerical superiority on such a scale that it changed the face of Europe permanently.
Long Bow. Short (composite) Bow.
Starvn Marvn
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Dianabolic
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.07 14:02:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: Robert Dobbs Edited by: Robert Dobbs on 07/06/2007 09:37:01 I disagree with the original poster.
We're taking the game, when we're done you're all gonna be f***ed.
So, who wants to try and stop us?
And here some people thought you might have learned from the gaffes Dianabolic made and which exploded in CCPs face last week
Honesty isn't a gaffe, dear malachon, nor is me pointing out something that you incompetents should already know.
But hey, don't let it stop you beating that horse. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums |
Dianabolic
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.07 14:02:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Xplained
Originally by: Smith
Originally by: Shadowsword
So being an hardcore gamer makes you the cream of the crop of humanity?
/me pictures a wow slef-proclamed elite raider living in a basement rambling about how he's better than "lazy" people.
I know a few Bob players, and they are in no way better than the average TCF player, except that they played longer and have fatter wallets.
Bobs pvpers are better than average, but if you want to look at really good pvpers, go fight Outbreak, RAT, or Veto.
Here we go "We only play part time cause we got a real life but if we did play hardcore WE would win"
TCF won any alliance tournaments?
How could they? with all the Dev intervention in BOB i.e. T20 incident! MSN buddies, etc..
Were BOB using their MSN buddies to their advantage during the tournament?
You used to be good at what you were doing, what made you so corrupted?
Why would we need MSN, one of our own pilots (Farjung) was sat right next to Lemonde at the time. It's good to talk, you know. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums |
TWD
TAOSP Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.07 14:09:00 -
[139]
Hey Dianabolic, I'll trade LeMonde MSN contact for T20. Deal? |
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.06.07 14:13:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Malachon Draco on 07/06/2007 14:13:03
Originally by: Dianabolic
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: Robert Dobbs Edited by: Robert Dobbs on 07/06/2007 09:37:01 I disagree with the original poster.
We're taking the game, when we're done you're all gonna be f***ed.
So, who wants to try and stop us?
And here some people thought you might have learned from the gaffes Dianabolic made and which exploded in CCPs face last week
Honesty isn't a gaffe, dear malachon, nor is me pointing out something that you incompetents should already know.
But hey, don't let it stop you beating that horse.
Right, keep telling yourself that wasn't stupid, honesty or not. Just a bit curious, were you drunk at the time or just emo ?
And stop calling me 'dear', you're lying and people are gonna think weird stuff
------------------------------------------------ Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
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Xplained
Caldari Ticon Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.06.07 14:15:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Dianabolic Why would we need MSN, one of our own pilots (Farjung) was sat right next to Lemonde at the time. It's good to talk, you know.
I noticed!
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TWD
TAOSP Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.07 14:18:00 -
[142]
Why so bitter :[ |
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.06.07 14:18:00 -
[143]
Originally by: TWD Why so bitter :[
You know you have a weird name right? What does TWD stand for anyway?
------------------------------------------------ Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
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Xplained
Caldari Ticon Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.06.07 14:19:00 -
[144]
Originally by: TWD Why so bitter :[
You used to be good, now i see it as a corrupted alliance
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.06.07 14:27:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Smith Here we go "We only play part time cause we got a real life but if we did play hardcore WE would win"
TCF won any alliance tournaments?
Who cares about tournaments?
- It's not real pvp - They're won in no small part by how much money you pour in your ship, and if cheesy faction setups helps you win, it doesn't make you a "good" pvper. - They're done by a handfull of players, and in no way represent a whole alliance.
If you read carefully, you'll see that I didn't stated that TCF, or the coalition, would beat you if we were hardcore. What I did imply, however, had it been the case since the beginning, you wouldn't see any signifiant difference in pvp or industrial abilities.
Most alliances have a lot of members who play less than 5 hours per week. Can you think of even a dozen Bob members who play less than 15 hours/week?
------------------------------------------ A big nuke may be nice in a strategy game, but something like this in a game where every unit is a player, and each death costly, is insane. |
Tyrus Ex
Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.07 14:29:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: TWD Why so bitter :[
You know you have a weird name right? What does TWD stand for anyway?
http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/TWD
Any one of those!!! Personally, I'm partial to the new Taiwan Dollar.
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Arenis Xemdal
Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.07 14:35:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Malachon Draco
Originally by: TWD Why so bitter :[
You know you have a weird name right? What does TWD stand for anyway?
This is such a trap, but I'll bite.
Total World Domination and on some days, Taranis Went Down.
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Dopple
Minmatar Blueprint Haus Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.07 16:37:00 -
[148]
It is really about perception.
TWD= Twisted Women Dancing?
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Einheriar Ulrich
Minmatar FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.07 19:55:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Einheriar Ulrich on 07/06/2007 19:54:30
Originally by: Etho Demerzel Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 06/06/2007 09:32:08 Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 06/06/2007 09:31:33 Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 06/06/2007 09:30:34
Originally by: Lord XSiV Structure and order will always win. Human beings are just that way. Eve is no different.
Actually for the most part of humanity's history chaos and numbers were much more successfull than structure and order. And in Eve that would happen too. If not by the limitations (proposital or not) of the game engine.
And one last thing. Cut "the cream of the crop" bull****. Only a complete ******** wouldn't win when every advantage is on their side. It is like a chess game where you start with queens in the place of your peons and after beating your opponent you try to say how better you are.
Considering how long they play and that they never played against opponents with the same resources in an even playfield, no the playground is not balanced. The balance is ridiculously offset to the side of an alliance that has as its only merit the fact that they started to play first and got "friends" within the game staff.
Bob does not like challenges. Bob does not like to fight. Bob likes to win. And if they don't have to fight so much better. That makes them the most self-dellusional losers I have ever seen, because they really believe they are something when anyone with half a br ain and the same resources (and contacts) would achieve the same or better results...
If Eve is remembered in the future Bob will have achieved the infamous role of being the NPCs of the game. Because that is what they are, in the same way as ISD. A CCP sponsored faction, even if you don't believe in the allegations of irregularity. And I am not even saying anythign about cheating. Only by the normal ridiculous advantages they get for having started to play before most people and for having stayed. There should be a limit for how much money could carry you on this game. After this limit numbers, strategy and dedication should be the predominant factor in conquests. Unfortunately that is not the case in Eve. Faction, deadspace and officer equipment, supercapitals, POS spam, T2 bpos and the power of finalcial superiority give too many advantages in this game. While this is not addressed even a 10 years old could win with those advantages against those who do not have them...
You sound very very bitter....And a wee bit jaloux.
Instead of whining " I cant beat them, they are more powerfull than me, its not fair", do something about it, instead of crying in every thread your in......Come on it is just a game
Originally by: Jiekon/CCP
If you are sitting with a guy and he says "ok, i'm logging off now" and you shoot him, that is fine.
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Corwain
Gallente Zero Team
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Posted - 2007.06.07 21:04:00 -
[150]
Anymore the alliance map looks like a game of risk with 70% of the board occupied by one players pieces and all the other areas on the board occupied by 1 army each belonging to a different player. At this point I doubt anybody could stop BoB even if they turned over the reins to trained monkeys. Not to insult BoBs competence, they did miraculous things to get to the point they are at now. I simply see more and more how much the game design concept of "slippery slope" affects EVE.
Simply stated slippery slope refers to games that become statistically more and more impossible to win the more mistakes are made. For instance in a game of Reversi the end move could turn the game around assuming an intelligent mind with the correct positioning. This is pretty much impossible in EVE, which plays much more like Chess or RISK. Once your pawns are dead you're not getting another queen.
In game terms BoB has such a massive fleet and controls all the assets required to build another fleet like it (and are doubling their current armament in short time periods) that it's doubtful that anyone else can make a comeback. I'd say a big part of this is due to their owning many of the best complexes and systems where those that are left with 0.0 space mostly have crap. (There are exceptions obviously.)
Now even if someone COULD manage to gather the resources to match BoB chances are BoB would get wind of it and stop them easily before they could build anything with those resources. Hopefully the new exploration system will help with this.
Oh, and the local cap rules and the DDD stop what everyone always said could possibly bring BoB down, that being massively superior numbers.
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