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GROSSO
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Posted - 2007.06.07 10:32:00 -
[1]
ok someone cry ... and you gonna nerf the drake whats the point ? drake have no damage to have a good tank... cant you see it ?
can you show me a drake killing a bs ? i can show you a myrmidon killig a bs... and i m not saying to nerf myrmidon.. is a good ship... i can live with that ... but stop nerfing because ppl cry . i dont wanna be trainning to ship... and then NERF .
TEST before launch the ships.
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Mortecai
Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2007.06.07 10:40:00 -
[2]
oh cry me a river mate. It's not the drake nerf. It's the OMFGBBQWTF passive tank nerf. everyone knew it was coming because of the massive bonus it gave to certain ships.
And whenever after some changes or module addons there will come a new ship that with certain new setup becomes overpowered... you guessed it: it will get a balancing nerf.
Nanos got it, passive tanking got it, I have a feeling that NOS will get it etc..
And still there are people who like to fly the speed tanked ships and get nice kills. Yes they dont go superfast anymore, but still enough to be effective. So with the drake and other ships that were so well passively tanked. They wont be as good, but still very comparable with other setups.
Im sorry you lost your easy-mode playstyle. Come and join us in the normal difficulty section.
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Malcanis
High4Life Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.07 10:43:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Mortecai oh cry me a river mate. It's not the drake nerf. It's the OMFGBBQWTF passive tank nerf. everyone knew it was coming because of the massive bonus it gave to certain ships.
And whenever after some changes or module addons there will come a new ship that with certain new setup becomes overpowered... you guessed it: it will get a balancing nerf.
Nanos got it, passive tanking got it, I have a feeling that NOS will get it etc..
And still there are people who like to fly the speed tanked ships and get nice kills. Yes they dont go superfast anymore, but still enough to be effective. So with the drake and other ships that were so well passively tanked. They wont be as good, but still very comparable with other setups.
Im sorry you lost your easy-mode playstyle. Come and join us in the normal difficulty section.
Speaking of "overpowered", I assume they myrmidon will have it's drone bonus changed to +5% per level for Gallante drones only...?
Or will the drake get +10% damage on all types of missiles now?
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Kiyano
Caldari Pilots Of Honour
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Posted - 2007.06.07 10:54:00 -
[4]
They'll nerf the Myrmidon's ability to shield tank, it is in no need of a drone nerf however. A competent pilot can easily counter a Myrmidon.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.06.07 10:56:00 -
[5]
Galente ships are fine.. But i also dont see why u have no nerf the drake. Drake sucks allready:)
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.07 10:57:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Mortecai oh cry me a river mate. It's not the drake nerf. It's the OMFGBBQWTF passive tank nerf. everyone knew it was coming because of the massive bonus it gave to certain ships.
And whenever after some changes or module addons there will come a new ship that with certain new setup becomes overpowered... you guessed it: it will get a balancing nerf.
Nanos got it, passive tanking got it, I have a feeling that NOS will get it etc..
And still there are people who like to fly the speed tanked ships and get nice kills. Yes they dont go superfast anymore, but still enough to be effective. So with the drake and other ships that were so well passively tanked. They wont be as good, but still very comparable with other setups.
Im sorry you lost your easy-mode playstyle. Come and join us in the normal difficulty section.
Speaking of "overpowered", I assume they myrmidon will have it's drone bonus changed to +5% per level for Gallante drones only...?
Or will the drake get +10% damage on all types of missiles now?
What is overpowered? I don't understand.
Because I said so...
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ZenTex
Caldari Trade and Research Technologies R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.06.07 10:59:00 -
[7]
The reason why many Drake pilots complain about the nerf is because the Drake is balanced. Sure, the passive tank is hard to break, but the damage output is horrible. It's hard to kill a drake, but it's hard to be killed by one too.
Easymode? In lvl 3 missions, sure. but the Drake was a sucky PvP ship, and will be near useless now due to low DPS.
There's little a sledgehammer can't fix. If you can't fix it, you need a bigger sledgehammer.
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Lysit Kaune
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2007.06.07 11:02:00 -
[8]
Can anyone point to the specific patch notes or comment about how they are changing passive tanking? Couldn't find it in patch notes and seen it crop up a time or two in discussion.
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SFShootme
The Carebear Stare
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Posted - 2007.06.07 11:04:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lysit Kaune Can anyone point to the specific patch notes or comment about how they are changing passive tanking? Couldn't find it in patch notes and seen it crop up a time or two in discussion.
look on sisi. Tho shall give Life, for Life. |
Aphotic Raven
Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.06.07 11:14:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Aphotic Raven on 07/06/2007 11:14:01
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Mortecai oh cry me a river mate. It's not the drake nerf. It's the OMFGBBQWTF passive tank nerf. everyone knew it was coming because of the massive bonus it gave to certain ships.
And whenever after some changes or module addons there will come a new ship that with certain new setup becomes overpowered... you guessed it: it will get a balancing nerf.
Nanos got it, passive tanking got it, I have a feeling that NOS will get it etc..
And still there are people who like to fly the speed tanked ships and get nice kills. Yes they dont go superfast anymore, but still enough to be effective. So with the drake and other ships that were so well passively tanked. They wont be as good, but still very comparable with other setups.
Im sorry you lost your easy-mode playstyle. Come and join us in the normal difficulty section.
Speaking of "overpowered", I assume they myrmidon will have it's drone bonus changed to +5% per level for Gallante drones only...?
Or will the drake get +10% damage on all types of missiles now?
As soon as my drones can 1 hit each of your missle launchers in turn, you can have your way...
If you fly a drone boat then you'll know the risks, not only in people attacking your drones but in having to warp and losing them that way.
When nos gets nerfed I hope the dominix gets a reasonable powergrid increase, it cant do much in way of blaster fittings in its current state.
Originally by: Dr Cupid Let me tell you all that I'm really enjoying eve-beta, and can't wait for the real game to come out!
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Terminus adacai
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.06.07 11:44:00 -
[11]
I figured this was coming, as I have seen researched BPO's for the Drake being offered at lower then normal prices. My only question is when did this info get out and to whom?
Opinions reflected on my posts are just that, my opinions. They do not reflect views held by my corp or alliance. |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.07 11:51:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Terminus adacai I figured this was coming, as I have seen researched BPO's for the Drake being offered at lower then normal prices. My only question is when did this info get out and to whom?
Drake nerf was known about a month ago i think - Changes were made on SiSi, there's another thread about it.
EVE History Wiki
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max bygraves
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Posted - 2007.06.07 11:53:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Aphotic Raven
When nos gets nerfed I hope the dominix gets a reasonable powergrid increase, it cant do much in way of blaster fittings in its current state.
Its a drone boat.
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ElCholo
Minmatar FarCry Inc Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.07 11:58:00 -
[14]
They not 'nerfing' drake .. just passive tanking on BC in general. Don't you wish you hadn't spent all that isk on rigs ??
Cheer up - with active tank and some damage mods a drake out dps a cerb .. u should try it sometime.
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Gojyu
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Posted - 2007.06.07 12:01:00 -
[15]
Originally by: max bygraves
Originally by: Aphotic Raven
When nos gets nerfed I hope the dominix gets a reasonable powergrid increase, it cant do much in way of blaster fittings in its current state.
Its a drone boat.
Most drone boats can still mount guns. The dominix has one of the most gimped powergrids I've ever seen
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RogueWing
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.06.07 12:24:00 -
[16]
As a Drake pilot, I endorse the coming "nerf" to the T1 BC's....but I do not like the fact that they are nerfing the Command Ships as well....those should have been left alone...
"...and by the way, this is all copyrighted and the reason for this will become apparent later." |
Glumpumpkin
House Elf Liberation Front
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Posted - 2007.06.07 12:33:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Gojyu
Originally by: max bygraves
Originally by: Aphotic Raven
When nos gets nerfed I hope the dominix gets a reasonable powergrid increase, it cant do much in way of blaster fittings in its current state.
Its a drone boat.
Most drone boats can still mount guns. The dominix has one of the most gimped powergrids I've ever seen
If you want to fit guns, sacrifice your tanking ability and equip as many RCU IIs as you need to fit the necessary guns.
Or you can train AWU V and rig Ancilliary Current Routers.
Full Tank + Full Gank != Balance
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Noluck Ned
FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.07 12:34:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Aphotic Raven
When nos gets nerfed I hope the dominix gets a reasonable powergrid increase, it cant do much in way of blaster fittings in its current state.
I Dont see it happening but it makes me drool just thinking of it.
The passive tank had it good for a long time, besides the drake there are other ships such as the Vulture and Nighthawk of course which, when set up properly are pretty much unbreakable 1v1.
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parrowdox
Caldari K-lash-nek-off
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Posted - 2007.06.07 13:29:00 -
[19]
dnt nerf the drake i love it
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F90OEX
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Posted - 2007.06.07 14:47:00 -
[20]
Fyi ...
Caldari will have another crappy ship (Drake & Nighthawk) to add to the list, like the Cerb and so on ..
SPR II current CPU requirements is 0.8 Over on the test server 17.6 cpu SPR I 20 cpu
Say goodbye to your Tech II HMLs and Large shield extenders II setups, for passive tanking.
It will be the same for the Nighthawk. Even with Max Elec/Eng skills, I can't see how its going to fit.
And before you say it, If the Drake was ALLL that, everyone and his mom would be flying one for pvp.
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Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2007.06.07 14:58:00 -
[21]
Originally by: max bygraves
Originally by: Aphotic Raven
When nos gets nerfed I hope the dominix gets a reasonable powergrid increase, it cant do much in way of blaster fittings in its current state.
Its a drone boat.
Yeah that is why it has a large hybrid damage bonus also. Please go and read the info of Dominix at least.
------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Katana Sengoku
Minmatar The Knights Templar Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.07 15:52:00 -
[22]
I've scored many kills in my drake... even made a raven run away. Its on par with other battlecruisers in its class and compared to battleships, only a skilled pilot with the right fittings is capable of sustaining a good fight with one.
Battlecruisers were designed by the devs to be a less expensive counter to battleships... and they do that job well.
I don't feel it needs any nerf... neither does the passive tanking for that matter. Well skilled smaller ships should be able to sustain battles with larger ships. I've seen punishers take out caracals... should we nerf something there?
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.07 15:54:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Katana Sengoku I've scored many kills in my drake... even made a raven run away. Its on par with other battlecruisers in its class and compared to battleships, only a skilled pilot with the right fittings is capable of sustaining a good fight with one.
Battlecruisers were designed by the devs to be a less expensive counter to battleships... and they do that job well.
AFAIK, they were meant to be cruiser killers, as destroyers were meant to be frigate killers.
The fact that they can tank damage-fitted battleships means something is wrong.
--23 Member--
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Kale Kold
Lensmen
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Posted - 2007.06.07 15:54:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Kale Kold on 07/06/2007 15:54:21
Originally by: RogueWing but I do not like the fact that they are nerfing the Command Ships as well....those should have been left alone...
How are these being nerfed?
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Kehmor
Caldari The Movement
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Posted - 2007.06.07 16:09:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Mortecai oh cry me a river mate. It's not the drake nerf. It's the OMFGBBQWTF passive tank nerf. everyone knew it was coming because of the massive bonus it gave to certain ships.
And whenever after some changes or module addons there will come a new ship that with certain new setup becomes overpowered... you guessed it: it will get a balancing nerf.
Nanos got it, passive tanking got it, I have a feeling that NOS will get it etc..
And still there are people who like to fly the speed tanked ships and get nice kills. Yes they dont go superfast anymore, but still enough to be effective. So with the drake and other ships that were so well passively tanked. They wont be as good, but still very comparable with other setups.
Im sorry you lost your easy-mode playstyle. Come and join us in the normal difficulty section.
Speaking of "overpowered", I assume they myrmidon will have it's drone bonus changed to +5% per level for Gallante drones only...?
Or will the drake get +10% damage on all types of missiles now?
does that mean we can shoot your missiles launchers off your ship from now on? if so i'm all for it.
The Movement is recruiting! |
Janu Hull
Caldari Order of Z Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.07 16:15:00 -
[26]
Originally by: ElCholo They not 'nerfing' drake .. just passive tanking on BC in general. Don't you wish you hadn't spent all that isk on rigs ??
Cheer up - with active tank and some damage mods a drake out dps a cerb .. u should try it sometime.
I run an active tank Drake. Even without rigs of any sort, its still a formidable tank. A cap injector, a Medium SB II, a full rack of four Hardeners, and Damage Control, with only 7800 points of shield, it can still rock the house in PvE.
Put BCS in the other low slots, a cap injector in the remaining midslot, a NOS in the last high slot (just to **** people off), pack Kinetic missiles, and unleash hell.
At gatecamp range, its got plenty of punch and you can laugh at people that call you Primary in a lowsec/raiding gang.
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Malcanis
High4Life Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.07 16:34:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kehmor
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Mortecai oh cry me a river mate. It's not the drake nerf. It's the OMFGBBQWTF passive tank nerf. everyone knew it was coming because of the massive bonus it gave to certain ships.
And whenever after some changes or module addons there will come a new ship that with certain new setup becomes overpowered... you guessed it: it will get a balancing nerf.
Nanos got it, passive tanking got it, I have a feeling that NOS will get it etc..
And still there are people who like to fly the speed tanked ships and get nice kills. Yes they dont go superfast anymore, but still enough to be effective. So with the drake and other ships that were so well passively tanked. They wont be as good, but still very comparable with other setups.
Im sorry you lost your easy-mode playstyle. Come and join us in the normal difficulty section.
Speaking of "overpowered", I assume they myrmidon will have it's drone bonus changed to +5% per level for Gallante drones only...?
Or will the drake get +10% damage on all types of missiles now?
does that mean we can shoot your missiles launchers off your ship from now on? if so i'm all for it.
Sure, if our launchers never run out of ammo, don't stop working when we get ECM'd and have the ability to repair armour & shields or give EW effects.
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Ironnight
Caldari x13 Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.07 16:40:00 -
[28]
You wanted longer battles, the passive tanks gives you that, now you want to nerf it? Cant really see a active tanked BC stand up to a BS.
If you want to nerf something, nerf NOS and Sensor dampeners, give them the same crappy chance to hit as ECM. And the dual armor reps, you know stuff I havent trained
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SARPIDON
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.06.07 17:19:00 -
[29]
So the Drake had its extra missile slot nerfed from SiSi to tranq because the dps was unbalanced and now a passive tank nerf, great!! Yes I know its class wide but at least with the Drake the tank made up for crap dps. Now its got less than ideal dps and a reasonable tank. Could someone point out a strength cos I cant see one. - I'm not taking PvE as a strength as that covers most of the other caldari ships :P
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Jor Renalt
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Posted - 2007.06.07 17:32:00 -
[30]
So I work my ass off to get into a Drake with T2 shield extenders and amplifiers and now my whole setup is going to be garbage? Nice.
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Niton Stormrider
Yona Mining Inc
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Posted - 2007.06.07 17:43:00 -
[31]
I don't see a problem with a drake fitted for tanking being able to sustain fire from one or two battleships, because when fitted that way it can't kill said battleships. Unless...GASP...he brings a buddy! My fiance flies a drake tanked to hell, and I follow behind with a Brutix with a wet paper bag for a tank but really nice DPS to break the battleships. If the tank on the drake gets nerfed into uselessness we'll adapt, but it's still lame.
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Lady Branwen
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.07 17:49:00 -
[32]
Originally by: SARPIDON So the Drake had its extra missile slot nerfed from SiSi to tranq because the dps was unbalanced and now a passive tank nerf, great!! Yes I know its class wide but at least with the Drake the tank made up for crap dps. Now its got less than ideal dps and a reasonable tank. Could someone point out a strength cos I cant see one. - I'm not taking PvE as a strength as that covers most of the other caldari ships :P
You prolly missed the memo, the Caldari had a ship almost capable of PVP, that's not allowed, hence the nerf
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Vodka Neat
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.07 18:16:00 -
[33]
Originally by: GROSSO
i dont wanna be trainning to ship... and then NERF .
See you have to be smart about it. After a few months I looked for the most nerfed race (in the eyes of the forum posters) then started training into that race. Why? Because they will probably be the next ones to get over buffed and I will be ready for that. So don't train for the ship that good now train for the one that sucks and then by the time your done it should be super buffed. Why are you still reading? Its over. Continue to the next post.
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Katana Sengoku
Minmatar The Knights Templar Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.07 18:36:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
AFAIK, they were meant to be cruiser killers, as destroyers were meant to be frigate killers.
The fact that they can tank damage-fitted battleships means something is wrong.
It was written when they first came out, battlecruisers would make battleships have to "pay attention to little ole me, cuz I'm big and tough too." I'm not quoting word for word, but it was along those lines.
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000Hunter000
Gallente Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.06.07 18:41:00 -
[35]
Not sure what all the hubbub is about?
my other char used to pilot a drake and he could do most L4's solo nps.
What i was to understand is that the nerf exists of a decrease in shield recharge time? or was this changed to something else?
Not sure for pvp, but i think with a couple a extenders and passive resisters u should get a nice ship that can still dish out nice damage if u stick some bcu's in low? (max damage i got was around 300 per missile with a rof of about 6 sec per launcher) CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
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Drachenlord
Amarr Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.06.07 18:45:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Ironnight You wanted longer battles, the passive tanks gives you that, now you want to nerf it? Cant really see a active tanked BC stand up to a BS.
News Flash, they were never meant to be able to tank BS dmg... especially from T2 fitted BSes.... |
Haradgrim
Caldari The Wild Bunch
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Posted - 2007.06.07 18:49:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Haradgrim on 07/06/2007 18:51:36 If they nerf the drake as currently intended, the caldari will be useless pre-BS (and their BS choices are pretty lacking, woo a raven! *pop*), despite what people say, the drake is a terrible active tank ship. The Caldari HACs are the worst HACs by race.....
I guess its just about time to make my caldari a pure miner!
Edit: Its true, a BS should destroy a BC, but 3 BC should absolutely obliterate a BS of any type without loosing a ship, IMO
That.which.does.not.bend.breaks |
Katana Sengoku
Minmatar The Knights Templar Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.07 18:56:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Drachenlord
News Flash, they were never meant to be able to tank BS dmg... especially from T2 fitted BSes....
Any skilled bs pilot knowing what bc he's going against can take him down. Its a matter of the variables of each 1-on-1 incounter. More battleships take down more battlecruisers, yet there's a problem here? If I'm a 50 skillpoint guy in a bc, I should be able to tank a 10 skillpoint guy in a raven.
Most of what we are seeing on these uber bc tanks are just unbalanced encounters. There are so many variables, range, speed, tactics, damage types, resists, rof, sig radius... a bc has a chance to take down a bs... plain and simple, if you are smart and play your cards right, it can be done. Whats wrong with that?
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Arana Tellen
Gallente The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.06.07 19:11:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Kehmor
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Mortecai oh cry me a river mate. It's not the drake nerf. It's the OMFGBBQWTF passive tank nerf. everyone knew it was coming because of the massive bonus it gave to certain ships.
And whenever after some changes or module addons there will come a new ship that with certain new setup becomes overpowered... you guessed it: it will get a balancing nerf.
Nanos got it, passive tanking got it, I have a feeling that NOS will get it etc..
And still there are people who like to fly the speed tanked ships and get nice kills. Yes they dont go superfast anymore, but still enough to be effective. So with the drake and other ships that were so well passively tanked. They wont be as good, but still very comparable with other setups.
Im sorry you lost your easy-mode playstyle. Come and join us in the normal difficulty section.
Speaking of "overpowered", I assume they myrmidon will have it's drone bonus changed to +5% per level for Gallante drones only...?
Or will the drake get +10% damage on all types of missiles now?
does that mean we can shoot your missiles launchers off your ship from now on? if so i'm all for it.
Sure, if our launchers never run out of ammo, don't stop working when we get ECM'd and have the ability to repair armour & shields or give EW effects.
You have friend or foe missiles, you have to carry multiple flights and cant do all the Ewar at the same time, but sure if we can change their damage types on the fly ---------------------------------
Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz, 2GB Gskill DDR2 5400 @ 800mhh 4-4-4-12, Abit fatality mATX F-I90HD @ 334mhz, 8800GTS 320mb 2x250GB 7200.10s Raid 0, Vista 64 Home |
Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.06.07 19:51:00 -
[40]
I can't believe the number of newbies posting here who think:
a) A BC should be able to tank a BS. Like BC's are some kind of counter to BS's. Where the hell did you get that idea?
b) You can't do anything with the drake once its passive tank is nerfed a bit.
c) Caldari have no good pvp ships at all. Like the drake was the only one you could use. So fly another race if you can't use them.
They're nerfing that insane passive tank because it's simply too good. I don't think they accounted for what rigs can do when they made the ship. Being able to out tank even battleships -without- needing cap? Honestly guys, wtf do you expect.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
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Jor Renalt
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Posted - 2007.06.07 20:48:00 -
[41]
For those of us who can't login to the test server this instant can someone explain what the nerf is going to do exactly?
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Janu Hull
Caldari Order of Z Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.07 20:52:00 -
[42]
Too much orthodoxy about Drakes and passive tanking. Its the min/max mentality that people get lazy about, then expect to canonize it as sacred and inviolate.
The damned thing active tanks just as well as it passive tanks, and without competition from its weapons for capjuice, its still wtfpwns compared to a Ferox.
The only thing that's going to be nerfed on my Drake is the name. I'll have to come up with something other than "Cruz Control 4 Cool" after the patch.
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Dakon Rage
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Posted - 2007.06.07 20:53:00 -
[43]
I just took a look at the test server... the changes I noticed
1400 Shield Recharge time on the Drake. (I believe its currently 1250) Shield Power Relays II's are currently 1 CPU to fit, they will now be 22 CPU.
This is of course not taking into account skills and such. Just setting up a quick Drake however, you can fit one heck of a tank still. So yes its nerfed... but I think to an acceptable rate.
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Haradgrim
Caldari The Wild Bunch
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Posted - 2007.06.07 20:58:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Frug I can't believe the number of newbies posting here who think:
a) A BC should be able to tank a BS. Like BC's are some kind of counter to BS's. Where the hell did you get that idea?
b) You can't do anything with the drake once its passive tank is nerfed a bit.
c) Caldari have no good pvp ships at all. Like the drake was the only one you could use. So fly another race if you can't use them.
They're nerfing that insane passive tank because it's simply too good. I don't think they accounted for what rigs can do when they made the ship. Being able to out tank even battleships -without- needing cap? Honestly guys, wtf do you expect.
a) a BC shouldnt be able to "tank" a BS, it should however, be able to survive against one
b) its not that a Drake won't be able to do "anything", its just that the Ferox and Drake will be the laughing-stock of the BC world, why would anyone starting a char now choose Caldari?
c) its not that there are no good cladari PVP ships, its just that they are only effective with gimmicky tricks, there are no straight OMGWTFPWNBBQ mobiles like every other race has (although amarr need some serious lovin).
Obviously anyone with 20mil+ SP can PVP in virtually any BS or lower, but is that the portion of the population who you want to balance the game for at that ship size?
That.which.does.not.bend.breaks |
Death Merchant
InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.06.07 20:58:00 -
[45]
Please test an active drake tank on SISI before posting a complaint about the nerf on the forums. Thank you very much.
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Jor Renalt
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Posted - 2007.06.07 21:03:00 -
[46]
Thanks for the info. If those are the only changes my current Drake setup will survive (I don't have any rigs).
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Baccala
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Posted - 2007.06.07 21:24:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Death Merchant Please test an active drake tank on SISI before posting a complaint about the nerf on the forums. Thank you very much.
and what was YOUR conclusion?
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Kale Kold
Lensmen
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Posted - 2007.06.07 21:39:00 -
[48]
Can somebody please reveal what they are nerfing on the command ships? if they are being nerfed im not wasting my time on BC5 and Cruiser5 just to fly a slightly better BC!
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.07 21:59:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Kale Kold Can somebody please reveal what they are nerfing on the command ships? if they are being nerfed im not wasting my time on BC5 and Cruiser5 just to fly a slightly better BC!
Originally by: dakon rage 1400 Shield Recharge time on the Drake. (I believe its currently 1250)
That should be all, the recharge time of shields has increased for all BC and Command ships.
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Katana Sengoku
Minmatar The Knights Templar Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.08 00:28:00 -
[50]
Found this to justify what the devs deemed a battlecruiser was...
Quote: The design for battlecruisers was for them to be the needed mini-battleships, hard as hell and can deal above average cruiser damage, they are for offensive actions but not ôtarget me and kill me in 5 secs or you will die in these 5ö, but more like ôif you want me to stop dealing this good damage on you, you would have to focus 100% on killing me you big mean battleship pilot, cuz im almost as big as youö.
Pretty close from what I thought in my previous post... but it makes my point... if this is what tier 1 battlecruisers should do... don't you think tier 2 would be a bit better?
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krilliante
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Posted - 2007.06.08 02:11:00 -
[51]
I am posting this just in case any devs read these forums.... News Flash ... all the Drake has is its decent passive tanks, dps sucks, moves like a 30 ton truck with a 5hp motor...slow....god its slow why take away the only thing its decent at? Maybe cause some leet PVPer cant kill it in 10secs...even though the drake cant hurt it, cause with a 13 slot passive tank dps is just horrible?
Jeez....
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Illistar DeathWing
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Posted - 2007.06.08 02:31:00 -
[52]
No drake needed a nerf. I use one most of the time, and have tanked gank setup faction ships like Martchel (sp?). And as much as I love the drake and don't want to see it nerfed it really needs it.
Besides it's not really a drake nerf,. but a passive shield tanking nerf. This applies to myrmadons who can passive tank just as well as drakes, while using auto cannons and t2 heavy drones, making them able to solo battleships.
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Tonkin
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.08 03:41:00 -
[53]
i do understand the passive tank nerf i did some testing on sisi with the same setup, i canstill last as long, but my recharge rats is not as fast when it goes to the lower areas of the shield.
i think a drake should have a passive bonus or summet, make use of them mods.
and tbh i cant wait for the damn nos nerf, i dont have to carry as many cap charges when soloing
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.06.08 05:01:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Haradgrim
a) a BC shouldnt be able to "tank" a BS, it should however, be able to survive against one
b) its not that a Drake won't be able to do "anything", its just that the Ferox and Drake will be the laughing-stock of the BC world, why would anyone starting a char now choose Caldari?
c) its not that there are no good cladari PVP ships, its just that they are only effective with gimmicky tricks, there are no straight OMGWTFPWNBBQ mobiles like every other race has (although amarr need some serious lovin).
a) You've lost me dude. It shouldn't be able to tank, but it should be able to survive... By... not tanking... and... not out damaging... what? No. If you're butting heads with a BS in a BC you should probably die unless you really know what you're doing. If you can't do it in a drake, the solution is simple. Don't.
b) The drake will still be amazing at missions even with the nerf. In pvp I promise you'll see them. They don't need this ******** tank to be able to fight. People will fit them with assault missiles and active tank and smush the right targets. If you can't, don't.
c) Yeah. Why would people take caldari? The most populous race in eve. The only reason people use caldari now is because of drakes, and now with the nerf, nobody will take caldari. Caldari are just so awful. I don't know how I manage.
I will grant one thing. Ferox's are sad.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.06.08 05:02:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Frug on 08/06/2007 05:01:39 Double post FTL
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.06.08 07:06:00 -
[56]
The problem is not the Drake's passive tank. The Myrmidon's passive SHIELD tank is BETTER than the Drake's, and that without shield resists bonuses and with a lower base shield. Heck, it's even better as the Myrmidon's armor tank, for which the myrm has bonuses !
Say what you want, but battlecruiser passive tanks were above typical battleship level tanks. The nerf was a long-time coming.
HOWEVER
I would have gone even farther with the passive tank base value nerf *AND* with the SPR nerf. I mean, come on, a mere +12% recharge time (so -10.7% recharge rate) ? And 20/22tf for a SPR-I/II (reducible to 15/16.5tf) instead of almost-none, while they give a BETTER shield recharge bonus as a shield recharger (which is 50tf for T2, agreed, no drawbacks though) ?
Heck, they should have increased base recharge rate to 1562.5 seconds (+25% recharge time, or -20% recharge rate) ! That's still only what a SINGLE T1 SPR WOULD COMPENSATE FOR ! And not only that, but they'd need to increase SPR CPU requirements more, to maybe 35tf for T1 and 40tf for T2 !
But there's a catch here. You need to either increase the Drake's base CPU value by at least 15%, preferably 20%... or his PG value by at least 10%, preferably 15%. I mean, COME ON, it's the only BC with LESS powergrid (-15%) as its tier 1 counterpart, and does not get any significant amount of tf extra to compensate... even if ALL other tier 2 BCs have *BOTH* more powergrid and more CPU as their tier 1 counterparts
Better still, give it a compromise somehwre in between... namely 575tf (a bit LESS than 10% more compared to current value) and 900MW (a mere ~6% compared to current value, but still 10% less as Ferox) as base values. That should take care of the DRAKE'S passive tank, make it easier to active-tank it too (and slightly less painfull to fit HAMLs)... while at the same time nerfing all other passive shieldtanks a lot more than the Drake's. It's the only thing the Drake's good for, at least leave him that. _ New char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.06.08 07:20:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Akita T I mean, COME ON, it's the only BC with LESS powergrid (-15%) as its tier 1 counterpart, and does not get any significant amount of tf extra to compensate...
That's because its counterpart is a rail platform. The rails take a lot more grid than launchers.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Miz Cenuij
OctoberSnow Corp
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Posted - 2007.06.08 07:25:00 -
[58]
nerftastic
"Men are going to die..
and im going to kill them". |
Grath Telkin
Amarr Bottomfeeders Inc
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Posted - 2007.06.08 07:28:00 -
[59]
im curious, i fly a drake on an alt, and i like the ship alot, i see all of you complaining about the dps, and you all are talking about the shield capabilities of your ship. how many of you actually have pimp missle skills? tech II assualt, or even just plain heavies hurt like hell with enough back up missle skills, im wondering if some (not all mind you) of you dont need to address your missle skills a bit to increase your dps, rof, n range. And i do agree that its a load of crap that a BC should be able to solo fight with a BS...i mean seriously, its a battleship, the supposed king of the seas, can we let it have its throne for once?
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SARPIDON
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.06.08 09:04:00 -
[60]
After some reflection and general calm from whaaa your nerfing my Baby, my thoughts are this. In PvP the Drake is a great gang ship, which a good pilot with good sp MIGHT solo in. A good pilot could tank anything, but only really have a chance on other BC's if the setup was poor. BC down you wouldn't worry. Battleships you can tank but couldn't take down. I guess my point is this. The Drake will STILL be a good gang ship, and it will STILL be able to take anything from BC down. What seems to have changed is the fact that you cant sit looking and laughing at a BS as it trys to break your tank and you do sweet fa with your heavies. You'll have to most probaly bug out - as some say it should be - Thing is, do I now dust off my Cerb?....
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Cletus Graeme
Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2007.06.08 10:30:00 -
[61]
Drake is borked. It has an insane tank but silly damage. It doesn't fit into the Cadldari ship scheme at all. The passive shield tanking is being fixed but GIVE IT ANOTHER LAUNCHER damnit!
Merlin (rails) : poor gank but good tank Kestrel (missiles) : good gank but poor tank
Moa (rails) : poor gank but good tank Caracal (missiles) : good gank but poor tank
Ferox (rails) : poor gank but good tank Drake (missiles) : POOR gank but GOOD tank
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Jaedar Metron
I G N O T U S
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Posted - 2007.06.08 11:15:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Cletus Graeme Drake is borked. It has an insane tank but silly damage. It doesn't fit into the Cadldari ship scheme at all. The passive shield tanking is being fixed but GIVE IT ANOTHER LAUNCHER damnit!
Merlin (rails) : poor gank but good tank Kestrel (missiles) : good gank but poor tank
Moa (rails) : poor gank but good tank Caracal (missiles) : good gank but poor tank
Ferox (rails) : poor gank but good tank Drake (missiles) : POOR gank but GOOD tank
Actually all Caldari missile ships Except the Kestrel suck in both Tank and DPS... Fought a corpmates vexor yesterday with my tank fitted Caracal. He outtanked me while outgunning me horribly I could break him when he finally capped out, but then my tank was long gone, and he hadnt even started on his boosters
I know, I fail at photoshopping :P |
Athyrial
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Posted - 2007.06.08 11:25:00 -
[63]
Heh maybe you guys should try using a drake with only a minimal tank and see where you get
no one said you have to actively or passively tank a drake
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Khali Nephtys
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.06.08 13:01:00 -
[64]
I've just returned to eve after a 2 year break, and the drake was one of the first ships I bought as it looked like a very nice little missile boat for the isk. I've grown to love this ship even over my raven, which to be honest I barely have the skillpoints to fly. I see the drake as a sort of 'pocket battleship', it's got great survivability and a reasonable amount of damage output.
I have never been fond of maths, so all the number crunching that goes on with setups just goes over my head. I fit things that seem like a good idea and see how they work in practice, but even I could see the nerf bat hanging over my little ship like the sword of damocles, though I didn't really understand all the numerical gibberish.
It's a shame if it gets nerfed to useless as I have grown very fond of this ship, hopefully it will get some love in other areas like giving it back the eight launchers it obviously was designed to have. The wildly swinging nerf bat and the pendulum of balancing issues was what frustrated me 2 years ago, I am hoping that CCP have learned a little in that time, and might walk the path of moderation now, so that people like myself who like to stick with a ship for a while might sleep easy knowing they won't go to bed with a decent ship docked in their hangar, and wake up to find it shockingly unable to perform the same tasks it did the previous day with ease.
Anyway in conclusion a toast, to the drake, a fine ship and may it continue to be so! Khabs am pehkt...........seize the stars.
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Cletus Graeme
Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2007.06.08 13:01:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Cletus Graeme on 08/06/2007 13:02:08
Originally by: Athyrial Heh maybe you guys should try using a drake with only a minimal tank and see where you get
no one said you have to actively or passively tank a drake
I fly an active tanked HAM drake - which IMO is the only viable choice for roaming pvp - but the range is pathetic (10-12km!) for a ship which lacks agility as it means is has to get into web range do decent damage. A simple range bonus would solve this problem. I really don't know what CCP was thinking with HAMs - the only Caldari ships they are useful on are the cara/cerb and the boa/beagle.
EDIT: Raven > Drake Effective variable damage and increased missile dps ftw!
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 13:53:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Mortecai oh cry me a river mate. It's not the drake nerf. It's the OMFGBBQWTF passive tank nerf. everyone knew it was coming because of the massive bonus it gave to certain ships.
And whenever after some changes or module addons there will come a new ship that with certain new setup becomes overpowered... you guessed it: it will get a balancing nerf.
Nanos got it, passive tanking got it, I have a feeling that NOS will get it etc..
And still there are people who like to fly the speed tanked ships and get nice kills. Yes they dont go superfast anymore, but still enough to be effective. So with the drake and other ships that were so well passively tanked. They wont be as good, but still very comparable with other setups.
Im sorry you lost your easy-mode playstyle. Come and join us in the normal difficulty section.
Well how about NOS and Sensor dampeners bite it first, easy mode playstyle ? Maybe you've never flown Gallente in PvP then, to feel the true meaning of easy mode in EvE..
if you are honest with yourself instead of blabbing around, you'd admit that NOS and Dampeners are much much more overpowered than passive tanks are. As a matter of fact, you are nerfing THE ONLY counter to NOS that people have found.
so you cry me a river and start to think for once!
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 13:54:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Kiyano They'll nerf the Myrmidon's ability to shield tank, it is in no need of a drone nerf however. A competent pilot can easily counter a Myrmidon.
Are you stupid or something ? A shield tanked Myrmidon?
Go back to the tutorials.. ugh..
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 13:55:00 -
[68]
Originally by: d026 Galente ships are fine.. But i also dont see why u have no nerf the drake. Drake sucks allready:)
I agree with the second part more than with the first, anyone who have flown a drake knows that you have to fit a 2 DMG/ROF rigs to be somwehat effective in it's damage output.. otherwise it's a joke..
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 13:57:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Aphotic Raven Edited by: Aphotic Raven on 07/06/2007 11:14:01
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Mortecai oh cry me a river mate. It's not the drake nerf. It's the OMFGBBQWTF passive tank nerf. everyone knew it was coming because of the massive bonus it gave to certain ships.
And whenever after some changes or module addons there will come a new ship that with certain new setup becomes overpowered... you guessed it: it will get a balancing nerf.
Nanos got it, passive tanking got it, I have a feeling that NOS will get it etc..
And still there are people who like to fly the speed tanked ships and get nice kills. Yes they dont go superfast anymore, but still enough to be effective. So with the drake and other ships that were so well passively tanked. They wont be as good, but still very comparable with other setups.
Im sorry you lost your easy-mode playstyle. Come and join us in the normal difficulty section.
Speaking of "overpowered", I assume they myrmidon will have it's drone bonus changed to +5% per level for Gallante drones only...?
Or will the drake get +10% damage on all types of missiles now?
As soon as my drones can 1 hit each of your missle launchers in turn, you can have your way...
If you fly a drone boat then you'll know the risks, not only in people attacking your drones but in having to warp and losing them that way.
When nos gets nerfed I hope the dominix gets a reasonable powergrid increase, it cant do much in way of blaster fittings in its current state.
Did I just hear you complain about your drones being vulnerable to misiles?
Well gee, lets give your ships enough cargo and ability ot use 10 fighters then, maybe it will make you happy.
Your comment doesn't benefit anyone but yourself.. grow out of it...
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 13:59:00 -
[70]
Originally by: RogueWing As a Drake pilot, I endorse the coming "nerf" to the T1 BC's....but I do not like the fact that they are nerfing the Command Ships as well....those should have been left alone...
you mean as an alt pilot that has no idea what hes' talking about.
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:02:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Katana Sengoku I've scored many kills in my drake... even made a raven run away. Its on par with other battlecruisers in its class and compared to battleships, only a skilled pilot with the right fittings is capable of sustaining a good fight with one.
Battlecruisers were designed by the devs to be a less expensive counter to battleships... and they do that job well.
I don't feel it needs any nerf... neither does the passive tanking for that matter. Well skilled smaller ships should be able to sustain battles with larger ships. I've seen punishers take out caracals... should we nerf something there?
Really? and you would know how? Puh lease come fight my Raven in your drake or even my myrmidon with my underdeveloped Gallente related skills.. please..
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:03:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Noluck Ned
Originally by: Aphotic Raven
When nos gets nerfed I hope the dominix gets a reasonable powergrid increase, it cant do much in way of blaster fittings in its current state.
I Dont see it happening but it makes me drool just thinking of it.
The passive tank had it good for a long time, besides the drake there are other ships such as the Vulture and Nighthawk of course which, when set up properly are pretty much unbreakable 1v1.
ubreakable 1v1? .. as are all the other race's command ships.. 'good' point
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:05:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Katana Sengoku I've scored many kills in my drake... even made a raven run away. Its on par with other battlecruisers in its class and compared to battleships, only a skilled pilot with the right fittings is capable of sustaining a good fight with one.
Battlecruisers were designed by the devs to be a less expensive counter to battleships... and they do that job well.
AFAIK, they were meant to be cruiser killers, as destroyers were meant to be frigate killers.
The fact that they can tank damage-fitted battleships means something is wrong.
Actually Dark Shikari, I think that the myrmidon capability of taking down a battleship instead of tanking one, deserves to be nerfed.. 5T2 heavies ? i think it's a bit overpowered for killing cruisers.. what do you think ?
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:08:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Kehmor
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Mortecai oh cry me a river mate. It's not the drake nerf. It's the OMFGBBQWTF passive tank nerf. everyone knew it was coming because of the massive bonus it gave to certain ships.
And whenever after some changes or module addons there will come a new ship that with certain new setup becomes overpowered... you guessed it: it will get a balancing nerf.
Nanos got it, passive tanking got it, I have a feeling that NOS will get it etc..
And still there are people who like to fly the speed tanked ships and get nice kills. Yes they dont go superfast anymore, but still enough to be effective. So with the drake and other ships that were so well passively tanked. They wont be as good, but still very comparable with other setups.
Im sorry you lost your easy-mode playstyle. Come and join us in the normal difficulty section.
Speaking of "overpowered", I assume they myrmidon will have it's drone bonus changed to +5% per level for Gallante drones only...?
Or will the drake get +10% damage on all types of missiles now?
does that mean we can shoot your missiles launchers off your ship from now on? if so i'm all for it.
As long as Gallente 'drone' boats get overloaded after using NOS for 10sec. then explode, sure, you can shoot at my launchers...
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:09:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Ironnight You wanted longer battles, the passive tanks gives you that, now you want to nerf it? Cant really see a active tanked BC stand up to a BS.
If you want to nerf something, nerf NOS and Sensor dampeners, give them the same crappy chance to hit as ECM. And the dual armor reps, you know stuff I havent trained
Exactly.
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:11:00 -
[76]
Yeah CCP, thanks for F-ing up the only thing that made the Drake a viable option, now i guess back to Gallente skill training.. again THANK YOU!..
:PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
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Janu Hull
Caldari Order of Z Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:13:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Black Scorpio Actually Dark Shikari, I think that the myrmidon capability of taking down a battleship instead of tanking one, deserves to be nerfed.. 5T2 heavies ? i think it's a bit overpowered for killing cruisers.. what do you think ?
I won't ask for it, but you won't see me shed a tear if it happens.
I've been toe to toe with a NOS-Myrmidon. It can't quite match the energy pull a NOSDominix can, but with the bees out, it can easily match its punch.
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:14:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Drachenlord
Originally by: Ironnight You wanted longer battles, the passive tanks gives you that, now you want to nerf it? Cant really see a active tanked BC stand up to a BS.
News Flash, they were never meant to be able to tank BS dmg... especially from T2 fitted BSes....
Newsflash, keep your selfish pro-amarr comments to yourself cause you certainly aren't helping..
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Ironnight
Caldari x13 Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:14:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Kiyano They'll nerf the Myrmidon's ability to shield tank, it is in no need of a drone nerf however. A competent pilot can easily counter a Myrmidon.
Are you stupid or something ? A shield tanked Myrmidon?
Go back to the tutorials.. ugh..
Dont diss it till you try it, it is sick, I allmost made a 30 mil Machariel pilot cry with it.
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:16:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Arana Tellen
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Kehmor
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Mortecai oh cry me a river mate. It's not the drake nerf. It's the OMFGBBQWTF passive tank nerf. everyone knew it was coming because of the massive bonus it gave to certain ships.
And whenever after some changes or module addons there will come a new ship that with certain new setup becomes overpowered... you guessed it: it will get a balancing nerf.
Nanos got it, passive tanking got it, I have a feeling that NOS will get it etc..
And still there are people who like to fly the speed tanked ships and get nice kills. Yes they dont go superfast anymore, but still enough to be effective. So with the drake and other ships that were so well passively tanked. They wont be as good, but still very comparable with other setups.
Im sorry you lost your easy-mode playstyle. Come and join us in the normal difficulty section.
Speaking of "overpowered", I assume they myrmidon will have it's drone bonus changed to +5% per level for Gallante drones only...?
Or will the drake get +10% damage on all types of missiles now?
does that mean we can shoot your missiles launchers off your ship from now on? if so i'm all for it.
Sure, if our launchers never run out of ammo, don't stop working when we get ECM'd and have the ability to repair armour & shields or give EW effects.
You have friend or foe missiles, you have to carry multiple flights and cant do all the Ewar at the same time, but sure if we can change their damage types on the fly
Oh but I guess you forget drones, which ARE all damage types.. with your VASSSSTTTT drone bay you can fit quite the variety.. oh but then you wont' be able to fit all T2 Large ones.. right, sorry there.. :PPPP
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:18:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Frug I can't believe the number of newbies posting here who think:
a) A BC should be able to tank a BS. Like BC's are some kind of counter to BS's. Where the hell did you get that idea?
b) You can't do anything with the drake once its passive tank is nerfed a bit.
c) Caldari have no good pvp ships at all. Like the drake was the only one you could use. So fly another race if you can't use them.
They're nerfing that insane passive tank because it's simply too good. I don't think they accounted for what rigs can do when they made the ship. Being able to out tank even battleships -without- needing cap? Honestly guys, wtf do you expect.
What can i say Frug, I guess you have never flown a fully equipped Myrmidon or maybe met one in the hands of a good pilot, that NOS with it's quite decent tank will very well tank and probably kill yuor raven if you ofc fly one.. as you say.. since Caldari have so many PvP ships.. i just can't choose.. that's why i'm doing gallente now..
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:20:00 -
[82]
Originally by: krilliante I am posting this just in case any devs read these forums.... News Flash ... all the Drake has is its decent passive tanks, dps sucks, moves like a 30 ton truck with a 5hp motor...slow....god its slow why take away the only thing its decent at? Maybe cause some leet PVPer cant kill it in 10secs...even though the drake cant hurt it, cause with a 13 slot passive tank dps is just horrible?
Jeez....
What the man said!
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Nyabi
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:21:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Kiyano They'll nerf the Myrmidon's ability to shield tank, it is in no need of a drone nerf however. A competent pilot can easily counter a Myrmidon.
Are you stupid or something ? A shield tanked Myrmidon?
Go back to the tutorials.. ugh..
Nub
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:22:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: Haradgrim
a) a BC shouldnt be able to "tank" a BS, it should however, be able to survive against one
b) its not that a Drake won't be able to do "anything", its just that the Ferox and Drake will be the laughing-stock of the BC world, why would anyone starting a char now choose Caldari?
c) its not that there are no good cladari PVP ships, its just that they are only effective with gimmicky tricks, there are no straight OMGWTFPWNBBQ mobiles like every other race has (although amarr need some serious lovin).
a) You've lost me dude. It shouldn't be able to tank, but it should be able to survive... By... not tanking... and... not out damaging... what? No. If you're butting heads with a BS in a BC you should probably die unless you really know what you're doing. If you can't do it in a drake, the solution is simple. Don't.
b) The drake will still be amazing at missions even with the nerf. In pvp I promise you'll see them. They don't need this ******** tank to be able to fight. People will fit them with assault missiles and active tank and smush the right targets. If you can't, don't.
c) Yeah. Why would people take caldari? The most populous race in eve. The only reason people use caldari now is because of drakes, and now with the nerf, nobody will take caldari. Caldari are just so awful. I don't know how I manage.
I will grant one thing. Ferox's are sad.
Oh thank you for your explanations Frug, now maybe we can all suggest for CCP to put next to or announce Caldari as the PvE race and get it over with.. too bad it wasn't like this 2 yrs ago when i started... would you give it ... that ?
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Black Scorpio
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 14:25:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: Akita T I mean, COME ON, it's the only BC with LESS powergrid (-15%) as its tier 1 counterpart, and does not get any significant amount of tf extra to compensate...
That's because its counterpart is a rail platform. The rails take a lot more grid than launchers.
Regardless Fruggie, i need this ship to perform, it's using misiles, so what? It cannot perform now ? good for PVE.. sure it is granted.. I am a Caldari pilot and would like to have a chance in PvP WITH Caldari ships.. this chance goes away with each "update" on the Caldari ships... funny, huh...
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Black Scorpio
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 14:27:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Grath Telkin im curious, i fly a drake on an alt, and i like the ship alot, i see all of you complaining about the dps, and you all are talking about the shield capabilities of your ship. how many of you actually have pimp missle skills? tech II assualt, or even just plain heavies hurt like hell with enough back up missle skills, im wondering if some (not all mind you) of you dont need to address your missle skills a bit to increase your dps, rof, n range. And i do agree that its a load of crap that a BC should be able to solo fight with a BS...i mean seriously, its a battleship, the supposed king of the seas, can we let it have its throne for once?
Thank you for your insight Grath, i DO have all of the at lvl 5 mind you and still am QUITE lacking on Damage in comparison to say Gallente and Minmatar ships of same class from pilots with comparable ships, and as me tweaked for damage..
quite sad isn't it?
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:30:00 -
[87]
Originally by: SARPIDON After some reflection and general calm from whaaa your nerfing my Baby, my thoughts are this. In PvP the Drake is a great gang ship, which a good pilot with good sp MIGHT solo in. A good pilot could tank anything, but only really have a chance on other BC's if the setup was poor. BC down you wouldn't worry. Battleships you can tank but couldn't take down. I guess my point is this. The Drake will STILL be a good gang ship, and it will STILL be able to take anything from BC down. What seems to have changed is the fact that you cant sit looking and laughing at a BS as it trys to break your tank and you do sweet fa with your heavies. You'll have to most probaly bug out - as some say it should be - Thing is, do I now dust off my Cerb?....
until it gets nerfed too buddy.. i just have that feeling.. don't know, maybe we should start a thread or a poll to bet which is the next Caldari ship to be nerfed. First it was misiles in general, then torps, then ECM, now Tank, it's getting better and better.. I just don't know why some people haven't unlearnt the "easy mode" speech.. ever try to be viable in PvP with that? or maybe you've heard too many stories of mighty misiles ploughing through hordes of NPCs... pitty...
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:34:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Cletus Graeme Edited by: Cletus Graeme on 08/06/2007 13:02:08
Originally by: Athyrial Heh maybe you guys should try using a drake with only a minimal tank and see where you get
no one said you have to actively or passively tank a drake
I fly an active tanked HAM drake - which IMO is the only viable choice for roaming pvp - but the range is pathetic (10-12km!) for a ship which lacks agility as it means is has to get into web range do decent damage. A simple range bonus would solve this problem. I really don't know what CCP was thinking with HAMs - the only Caldari ships they are useful on are the cara/cerb and the boa/beagle.
EDIT: Raven > Drake Effective variable damage and increased missile dps ftw!
Yep, now imagine being sensor dampened in your HAM drake.. uh hum.. veeerry useful in PvP i tell you...
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Minerva Vulcan
Caldari The Nexus Foundation
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:35:00 -
[89]
Why oh why can a ship that dedicates all it's Mid and Low slots to tanking have such a great tank?!
Nerf!
Boohoo it can out-tank my ship, even though I only use 3 low slots for tanking!
;_;
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Black Scorpio
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 14:36:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Janu Hull
Originally by: Black Scorpio Actually Dark Shikari, I think that the myrmidon capability of taking down a battleship instead of tanking one, deserves to be nerfed.. 5T2 heavies ? i think it's a bit overpowered for killing cruisers.. what do you think ?
I won't ask for it, but you won't see me shed a tear if it happens.
I've been toe to toe with a NOS-Myrmidon. It can't quite match the energy pull a NOSDominix can, but with the bees out, it can easily match its punch.
exactly.. I don't see people screaming nerf the Myrmidon tho.. huh wonder why, must be their love for NOS+drone combo "Easy Mode" that does it.. ah yes, it's not Caldari too, so it can't be nerfed.. much less the godly Gallente..
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:38:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Ironnight
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Kiyano They'll nerf the Myrmidon's ability to shield tank, it is in no need of a drone nerf however. A competent pilot can easily counter a Myrmidon.
Are you stupid or something ? A shield tanked Myrmidon?
Go back to the tutorials.. ugh..
Dont diss it till you try it, it is sick, I allmost made a 30 mil Machariel pilot cry with it.
A machariel cry with it? lol, well that pilot was an idiot, sorry, but it's quite true.. and yes my friend, I HAVE tried the Drake believe me.. in many a scenario.. in PvP.. it is NOTHING to boast about.. it's only chance is not to get killed, ofc, noone is commenting it's killing abilities.. let me tell you why.. there are none.. unless the pilot against you either is fitter quite poor, or is afk..
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:39:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Nyabi
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Kiyano They'll nerf the Myrmidon's ability to shield tank, it is in no need of a drone nerf however. A competent pilot can easily counter a Myrmidon.
Are you stupid or something ? A shield tanked Myrmidon?
Go back to the tutorials.. ugh..
Nub
yeah good setup istn't it.. the only difference a Myrmidon can actually kill you quite well with that BECAUSE it DOES deal good damage. Drake's only ability in PvP is tanking.. sorry i don't have a link for you to return the favor.
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:40:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Janu Hull
Originally by: Black Scorpio Actually Dark Shikari, I think that the myrmidon capability of taking down a battleship instead of tanking one, deserves to be nerfed.. 5T2 heavies ? i think it's a bit overpowered for killing cruisers.. what do you think ?
I won't ask for it, but you won't see me shed a tear if it happens.
I've been toe to toe with a NOS-Myrmidon. It can't quite match the energy pull a NOSDominix can, but with the bees out, it can easily match its punch.
exactly.. I don't see people screaming nerf the Myrmidon tho.. huh wonder why, must be their love for NOS+drone combo "Easy Mode" that does it.. ah yes, it's not Caldari too, so it can't be nerfed.. much less the godly Gallente..
Very-very-very good. Drake must be nerfed to the hell, because Caldari don't deserve any good ships. They may get either bad or mediocre.
When Crow will be nerfed? We need Crow nerf! --------------------------------- Hint 1: Train for Mega, not for Rokh Hint 2: Abaddon is uber fleet BS. R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2007.06.08 14:50:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
yeah good setup istn't it.. the only difference a Myrmidon can actually kill you quite well with that BECAUSE it DOES deal good damage. Drake's only ability in PvP is tanking.. sorry i don't have a link for you to return the favor.
7 heavy assault launchers, 3 ballistic control systems. Just because most people are morons and fit to die slowly doesn't mean you can't fit to actually kill stuff.
Drake is about the only ship that people expect to PvP in while in a very npcing looking setup. For any other ship PvE and PvP setups are wildly different, why whould the Drake be any different? Some old kills, I stopped providing free intel |
Haradgrim
Caldari The Wild Bunch
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 14:51:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: Haradgrim
a) a BC shouldnt be able to "tank" a BS, it should however, be able to survive against one
b) its not that a Drake won't be able to do "anything", its just that the Ferox and Drake will be the laughing-stock of the BC world, why would anyone starting a char now choose Caldari?
c) its not that there are no good cladari PVP ships, its just that they are only effective with gimmicky tricks, there are no straight OMGWTFPWNBBQ mobiles like every other race has (although amarr need some serious lovin).
a) You've lost me dude. It shouldn't be able to tank, but it should be able to survive... By... not tanking... and... not out damaging... what? No. If you're butting heads with a BS in a BC you should probably die unless you really know what you're doing. If you can't do it in a drake, the solution is simple. Don't.
b) The drake will still be amazing at missions even with the nerf. In pvp I promise you'll see them. They don't need this ******** tank to be able to fight. People will fit them with assault missiles and active tank and smush the right targets. If you can't, don't.
c) Yeah. Why would people take caldari? The most populous race in eve. The only reason people use caldari now is because of drakes, and now with the nerf, nobody will take caldari. Caldari are just so awful. I don't know how I manage.
I will grant one thing. Ferox's are sad.
a) what I mean by survivability is that while the BS should win out in a 1 vs 1 fight, a drake should be able to take more then just a few rounds of damage before having to warp out.
b) your right the drake is pretty decent at missions (although it probably will have trouble with lvl4s after the nerf) however thats not saying much since its only slightly better then a caracal for lvl 3 or lower.
c) Caldari are easy that why most choose them, but these days Gallente and even Minmatar have a great deal of advantage over them. I'm not saying there is no good reason to be a caldari pilot (still have the best Stealth bomber, freighter, etc). But a new combat pilot has nothing to look forward to until they can fly a BS with decent support skills.
Thank you for the Ferox concession; please ccp, boost the ferox!
Someone said something about testing the active tank on Sisi before commenting, is there some sort of a change being made? I didnt notice
That.which.does.not.bend.breaks |
Janu Hull
Caldari Order of Z Industries
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 14:52:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Janu Hull
Originally by: Black Scorpio Actually Dark Shikari, I think that the myrmidon capability of taking down a battleship instead of tanking one, deserves to be nerfed.. 5T2 heavies ? i think it's a bit overpowered for killing cruisers.. what do you think ?
I won't ask for it, but you won't see me shed a tear if it happens.
I've been toe to toe with a NOS-Myrmidon. It can't quite match the energy pull a NOSDominix can, but with the bees out, it can easily match its punch.
exactly.. I don't see people screaming nerf the Myrmidon tho.. huh wonder why, must be their love for NOS+drone combo "Easy Mode" that does it.. ah yes, it's not Caldari too, so it can't be nerfed.. much less the godly Gallente..
Well, here's the thing. My one encounter against the NOS Myrmidon was in a rat configured Rokh.
Initially, it was a gatecamp. I ignored his attacks, kicked in the tank, then slipped back through the gate knowing full well he'd follow. He did not have a webber, just a scrambler, so my mobility, such as it was, wasn't overly impeded.
The Rokh did its usual drunken walrus alignment to the next gate, and he had enough time to catch me there. I decided on an alternate tack, and jumped into an asteroid belt. There was a battleship spawn there, and it aggroed both of us pretty equally. He had me locked down, so I wasn't warping anywhere, and he was within my minimum range on the 350mm prototypes, so they were useless. His drones launched, and I kicked in the tank. His NOS started on me, and I launched my drones.
I figured this was a losing battle because of the mismatched set ups, so I figured I'd try something different. My cap was stabilizing, even though the NOS wasn't doing me any favors, and I was holding up well enough with the hardeners that I could pulse the booster when his drones chewed up too much shield. I dropped the lock on him (I can only maintain five targets with my skills), and focused my drones against his drones, trying to see if I could last long enough to pull his teeth. I had Tech II Vespas, he had Tech II Ogres, so it was quite the shooting match. My tanking was seriously aided because I simply wasn't using my main guns. I saw him say something in local about the "damned NPCs", so I locked onto him again, and saw that his PvP gank tank wasn't doing so well against pressure from the NPCs, and it might have gone either way, until another member of his corp showed up in a tackle fit Merlin with additional NOS that finally broke my back.
I run that through in my head and wonder if having a Raven would have made a difference, but then the rats in the area are Sansha, so logically, I'd have had EM missile fit, which would have been as threatening to his armor tank as a stream of urine. Maybe I could have hit more of his drones, but then I'm still gimped by the NOS assault *****ing my active tank, especially with the second ship showing up.
I don't think even having blasters on the Rokh would have helped much. With antimatter rounds, his 18-20km range would have been at the extreme limits of their range, so I'd be just as screwed.
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SARPIDON
Infinitus Odium
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 14:59:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: SARPIDON After some reflection and general calm from whaaa your nerfing my Baby, my thoughts are this. In PvP the Drake is a great gang ship, which a good pilot with good sp MIGHT solo in. A good pilot could tank anything, but only really have a chance on other BC's if the setup was poor. BC down you wouldn't worry. Battleships you can tank but couldn't take down. I guess my point is this. The Drake will STILL be a good gang ship, and it will STILL be able to take anything from BC down. What seems to have changed is the fact that you cant sit looking and laughing at a BS as it trys to break your tank and you do sweet fa with your heavies. You'll have to most probaly bug out - as some say it should be - Thing is, do I now dust off my Cerb?....
I just don't know why some people haven't unlearnt the "easy mode" speech.. ever try to be viable in PvP with that? or maybe you've heard too many stories of mighty misiles ploughing through hordes of NPCs... pitty...
I'm confused, sorry. Is that a Dig at me wanting to get into a Cerb or one reflecting I don't know how they perform in Pvp? Just to clarify ofc
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 15:05:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Janu Hull
I don't think even having blasters on the Rokh would have helped much. With antimatter rounds, his 18-20km range would have been at the extreme limits of their range, so I'd be just as screwed.
A nos myrmidon with that much range is using a billion ISK in nosferatu. I kinda doubt it was the case and he likely was under 12km from you. So blasters could have helped. Some old kills, I stopped providing free intel |
Katana Sengoku
Minmatar The Knights Templar Hydra Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 15:12:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Katana Sengoku I've scored many kills in my drake... even made a raven run away. Its on par with other battlecruisers in its class and compared to battleships, only a skilled pilot with the right fittings is capable of sustaining a good fight with one.
Battlecruisers were designed by the devs to be a less expensive counter to battleships... and they do that job well.
I don't feel it needs any nerf... neither does the passive tanking for that matter. Well skilled smaller ships should be able to sustain battles with larger ships. I've seen punishers take out caracals... should we nerf something there?
Really? and you would know how? Puh lease come fight my Raven in your drake or even my myrmidon with my underdeveloped Gallente related skills.. please..
No, I'm lying. I made it all up. LOL. Try playing this game... try reading a few things before you troll off multiple replies cuz you're having a bad hair day.
How old are you, like 6? God you're lame.
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Janu Hull
Caldari Order of Z Industries
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 15:12:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: Janu Hull
I don't think even having blasters on the Rokh would have helped much. With antimatter rounds, his 18-20km range would have been at the extreme limits of their range, so I'd be just as screwed.
A nos myrmidon with that much range is using a billion ISK in nosferatu. I kinda doubt it was the case and he likely was under 12km from you. So blasters could have helped.
18km, deadly serious. Might have been latency, might not, but he had me NOS'd from that range.
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 15:21:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: Black Scorpio
yeah good setup istn't it.. the only difference a Myrmidon can actually kill you quite well with that BECAUSE it DOES deal good damage. Drake's only ability in PvP is tanking.. sorry i don't have a link for you to return the favor.
7 heavy assault launchers, 3 ballistic control systems. Just because most people are morons and fit to die slowly doesn't mean you can't fit to actually kill stuff.
Drake is about the only ship that people expect to PvP in while in a very npcing looking setup. For any other ship PvE and PvP setups are wildly different, why whould the Drake be any different?
What do you think i have ti fitte with? Standard launchers? :)
10km range on the slowest thing out there while using HAMs can easily get you killed out there. The ballistic controls are a must for me in every setup with that ship. I don't see your point. The point however is that when i do fit EW modules, as i have to, and i just lost my tank as well. so let me see..
-Slow, -No good DPS, could easily be overcome by having your opponents keep you out of range (in case of HAMS, or lower DPS if using Heavies) -No tank after you take 2-3 meds for EW..
well.. i really don't like this ship for PVP, do you? .. tell me do you PvP in a Drake? Solo? and how often.. also show me how many people you've killed solo..
btw, i didn't expect a limited view from a fellow countryman :)
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Black Scorpio
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 15:22:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Katana Sengoku
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: Katana Sengoku I've scored many kills in my drake... even made a raven run away. Its on par with other battlecruisers in its class and compared to battleships, only a skilled pilot with the right fittings is capable of sustaining a good fight with one.
Battlecruisers were designed by the devs to be a less expensive counter to battleships... and they do that job well.
I don't feel it needs any nerf... neither does the passive tanking for that matter. Well skilled smaller ships should be able to sustain battles with larger ships. I've seen punishers take out caracals... should we nerf something there?
Really? and you would know how? Puh lease come fight my Raven in your drake or even my myrmidon with my underdeveloped Gallente related skills.. please..
No, I'm lying. I made it all up. LOL. Try playing this game... try reading a few things before you troll off multiple replies cuz you're having a bad hair day.
How old are you, like 6? God you're lame.
I don't know how old am i, I can see however how old you are from your reply..
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Black Scorpio
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 15:25:00 -
[103]
Originally by: SARPIDON
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: SARPIDON After some reflection and general calm from whaaa your nerfing my Baby, my thoughts are this. In PvP the Drake is a great gang ship, which a good pilot with good sp MIGHT solo in. A good pilot could tank anything, but only really have a chance on other BC's if the setup was poor. BC down you wouldn't worry. Battleships you can tank but couldn't take down. I guess my point is this. The Drake will STILL be a good gang ship, and it will STILL be able to take anything from BC down. What seems to have changed is the fact that you cant sit looking and laughing at a BS as it trys to break your tank and you do sweet fa with your heavies. You'll have to most probaly bug out - as some say it should be - Thing is, do I now dust off my Cerb?....
I just don't know why some people haven't unlearnt the "easy mode" speech.. ever try to be viable in PvP with that? or maybe you've heard too many stories of mighty misiles ploughing through hordes of NPCs... pitty...
I'm confused, sorry. Is that a Dig at me wanting to get into a Cerb or one reflecting I don't know how they perform in Pvp? Just to clarify ofc
Hey m8, to clarify, it's a friendly comment, contemplating the future of other caldari ships that might be i repeat MIGHT be good at pvp such as the cerberus... and having the number Caldari ships with PvP capabilities diminishing with every "tweak"
I liked your comments..
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 15:47:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Lubomir Penev on 08/06/2007 15:54:21
Originally by: Black Scorpio Edited by: Black Scorpio on 08/06/2007 15:25:13
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: Black Scorpio
yeah good setup istn't it.. the only difference a Myrmidon can actually kill you quite well with that BECAUSE it DOES deal good damage. Drake's only ability in PvP is tanking.. sorry i don't have a link for you to return the favor.
7 heavy assault launchers, 3 ballistic control systems. Just because most people are morons and fit to die slowly doesn't mean you can't fit to actually kill stuff.
Drake is about the only ship that people expect to PvP in while in a very npcing looking setup. For any other ship PvE and PvP setups are wildly different, why whould the Drake be any different?
What do you think i have it fitted with? Standard launchers? :)
10km range on the slowest thing out there while using HAMs can easily get you killed out there. The ballistic controls are a must for me in every setup with that ship. I don't see your point. The point however is that when i do fit EW modules, as i have to, and i just lost my tank as well. so let me see..
-Slow,
A Drake is faster than an armor rigged Myrmidon (rigs which are needed to make it "overpowered") when both are using the same MWD, and a Drake can sacrifice a low slot for a nano, unlike a Myrmidon. It is slow if you wish to make it so.
You can go mwd/web/scram/injector/large booster/invuln in mids. About everybody needs mwd/web/scram to PvP why should the Drake be exempt?
Oh, and I'm not Bulgarian ;-)
edited for typo Some old kills, I stopped providing free intel |
SARPIDON
Infinitus Odium
|
Posted - 2007.06.08 15:48:00 -
[105]
Edited by: SARPIDON on 08/06/2007 15:49:02
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: SARPIDON
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: SARPIDON After some reflection and general calm from whaaa your nerfing my Baby, my thoughts are this. In PvP the Drake is a great gang ship, which a good pilot with good sp MIGHT solo in. A good pilot could tank anything, but only really have a chance on other BC's if the setup was poor. BC down you wouldn't worry. Battleships you can tank but couldn't take down. I guess my point is this. The Drake will STILL be a good gang ship, and it will STILL be able to take anything from BC down. What seems to have changed is the fact that you cant sit looking and laughing at a BS as it trys to break your tank and you do sweet fa with your heavies. You'll have to most probaly bug out - as some say it should be - Thing is, do I now dust off my Cerb?....
I just don't know why some people haven't unlearnt the "easy mode" speech.. ever try to be viable in PvP with that? or maybe you've heard too many stories of mighty misiles ploughing through hordes of NPCs... pitty...
I'm confused, sorry. Is that a Dig at me wanting to get into a Cerb or one reflecting I don't know how they perform in Pvp? Just to clarify ofc
Hey m8, to clarify, it's a friendly comment, contemplating the future of other caldari ships that might be i repeat MIGHT be good at pvp such as the cerberus... and having the number Caldari ships with PvP capabilities diminishing with every "tweak"
I liked your comments..
Therefore I like yours.
I agree, but ofc there will always be people telling Caldari pilots to get out of the WWWWWaaaaabulance and stfu cos you have Scorps and Rooks/Falcons, or to train another race. - Not acceptable to those who chose to stay single race for whatever reason- I look forward to objective statements where hopefully people can see that the Assets that Caldari pilots have at their disposal have seen the flat side of the nerf bat too much. I would rather not be given anything than to get it and have it taken away. I do realise that these thoughts will gain no sympathy from non Caldari pilots and why should they. I do expect a knowing nod or two from those who, like me chose a race and chose to stick to it and gradually watch its abilities decrease. Where did that WAAabulance go anyway?
In case your wondering where this fits in with a passive tank nerf, I saw the passive tank on a Drake as a plus that could make up for other shortfalls...
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 15:56:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: Black Scorpio Edited by: Black Scorpio on 08/06/2007 15:25:13
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: Black Scorpio
yeah good setup istn't it.. the only difference a Myrmidon can actually kill you quite well with that BECAUSE it DOES deal good damage. Drake's only ability in PvP is tanking.. sorry i don't have a link for you to return the favor.
7 heavy assault launchers, 3 ballistic control systems. Just because most people are morons and fit to die slowly doesn't mean you can't fit to actually kill stuff.
Drake is about the only ship that people expect to PvP in while in a very npcing looking setup. For any other ship PvE and PvP setups are wildly different, why whould the Drake be any different?
What do you think i have it fitted with? Standard launchers? :)
10km range on the slowest thing out there while using HAMs can easily get you killed out there. The ballistic controls are a must for me in every setup with that ship. I don't see your point. The point however is that when i do fit EW modules, as i have to, and i just lost my tank as well. so let me see..
-Slow,
A Drake is faster than an armor rigged Myrmidon (rigs which are needed to make it "overpowered") when both are using the same MWD, and a Drake can sacrifice a low slot for a nano, unlike a Myrmidon. Is is slow if you wish to make it so.
You can go mwd/web/scram/injector/large booster/invuln in mids. About everybody needs mwd/web/scram to PvP why should the Drake be exempt?
Oh, and I'm not Bulgarian ;-)
m8, do you realize that the changes you just proposed, i.e. MWD on a Drake, nano in low slots, compared to the ARMOR rigged Myrmi, etc, is leaving the Drake quite with no tank?
then yes it might be fast but will be quite dead still. I am talking about having ships at their max efficiency and usual speed, not about a specifically fit setups to make a point.
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 16:02:00 -
[107]
Originally by: SARPIDON Edited by: SARPIDON on 08/06/2007 15:49:02
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: SARPIDON
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Originally by: SARPIDON After some reflection and general calm from whaaa your nerfing my Baby, my thoughts are this. In PvP the Drake is a great gang ship, which a good pilot with good sp MIGHT solo in. A good pilot could tank anything, but only really have a chance on other BC's if the setup was poor. BC down you wouldn't worry. Battleships you can tank but couldn't take down. I guess my point is this. The Drake will STILL be a good gang ship, and it will STILL be able to take anything from BC down. What seems to have changed is the fact that you cant sit looking and laughing at a BS as it trys to break your tank and you do sweet fa with your heavies. You'll have to most probaly bug out - as some say it should be - Thing is, do I now dust off my Cerb?....
I just don't know why some people haven't unlearnt the "easy mode" speech.. ever try to be viable in PvP with that? or maybe you've heard too many stories of mighty misiles ploughing through hordes of NPCs... pitty...
I'm confused, sorry. Is that a Dig at me wanting to get into a Cerb or one reflecting I don't know how they perform in Pvp? Just to clarify ofc
Hey m8, to clarify, it's a friendly comment, contemplating the future of other caldari ships that might be i repeat MIGHT be good at pvp such as the cerberus... and having the number Caldari ships with PvP capabilities diminishing with every "tweak"
I liked your comments..
Therefore I like yours.
I agree, but ofc there will always be people telling Caldari pilots to get out of the WWWWWaaaaabulance and stfu cos you have Scorps and Rooks/Falcons, or to train another race. - Not acceptable to those who chose to stay single race for whatever reason- I look forward to objective statements where hopefully people can see that the Assets that Caldari pilots have at their disposal have seen the flat side of the nerf bat too much. I would rather not be given anything than to get it and have it taken away. I do realise that these thoughts will gain no sympathy from non Caldari pilots and why should they. I do expect a knowing nod or two from those who, like me chose a race and chose to stick to it and gradually watch its abilities decrease. Where did that WAAabulance go anyway?
In case your wondering where this fits in with a passive tank nerf, I saw the passive tank on a Drake as a plus that could make up for other shortfalls...
Yep, in short, i have diversified, but that's after i really saw all viable Caldari ships, nerfed in a bad way. and why should a player move away from their chosen race? Yes they are different ships with different purposes, but even in the case of Scorps, and rokhs, they got nerfed. I don't see anyone nerfing the Lachesis for example and the overpowered Sensor dampening.. etc.. i guess lots of people do blob fests to see single ships bonuses and the lack thereof on Caldari crafts.. but hey..
as it turns out as i mentioned, Caldari is turned to mission running (t1 version ships) to cosmos missions (t2 versions)ships. Then again, nerfing missions (if it happens) will be another indirect Caldari nerf :) lol..
I don't know, I just don't like the fact that every single class of Caldari ships gets nerfed.. usually and VERY unfortunately AFTER you do spend the time to learn the skills for that class...
again, pity..
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Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2007.06.08 16:17:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
m8, do you realize that the changes you just proposed, i.e. MWD on a Drake, nano in low slots, compared to the ARMOR rigged Myrmi, etc, is leaving the Drake quite with no tank?
then yes it might be fast but will be quite dead still. I am talking about having ships at their max efficiency and usual speed, not about a specifically fit setups to make a point.
If you can't break his tank, you can just MWD out of scram range now, and frankly most people would find the capacitor booster/LSB II/Invuln II/Drake natural resist to be a decent tank. Yeah just decent instead of nber. But you can move, hold people and do damage (starting by popping the Myrm drones), instead of tanking him waiting for his friends to show up. My point was there was more than the passive shield tanking setup as a viable Drake PvP setup. Some old kills, I stopped providing free intel |
Drunk Driver
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.08 16:18:00 -
[109]
Drake is too strong.
I saw a Drake kicking sand in the face of other ships. How rude.
Nerf the Drake. |
Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2007.06.08 16:23:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Lubomir Penev on 08/06/2007 16:23:13 Never ever use back on these forums. Some old kills, I stopped providing free intel |
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 16:25:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: Black Scorpio
m8, do you realize that the changes you just proposed, i.e. MWD on a Drake, nano in low slots, compared to the ARMOR rigged Myrmi, etc, is leaving the Drake quite with no tank?
then yes it might be fast but will be quite dead still. I am talking about having ships at their max efficiency and usual speed, not about a specifically fit setups to make a point.
If you can't break his tank, you can just MWD out of scram range now, and frankly most people would find the capacitor booster/LSB II/Invuln II/Drake natural resist to be a decent tank. Yeah just decent instead of nber. But you can move, hold people and do damage (starting by popping the Myrm drones), instead of tanking him waiting for his friends to show up. My point was there was more than the passive shield tanking setup as a viable Drake PvP setup.
Yes there's more to the Drake than passive tank, however you just ate it's ability to overcome serious nossing.
and in your case, you can just run away by MWD? I thought the goal of every PvP is to win, not successfully run away. If that was my goal I'd be in a crow, zooming at speed that nothing can hit me.. but the'll probably nerf the crow soon too so...
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 16:26:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Drunk Driver
Drake is too strong.
I saw a Drake kicking sand in the face of other ships. How rude.
Nerf the Drake.
yep, and screaming obscenities too.. i know.. it's a bad, bad ship.. must be nerfed.. as all Caldari.. damn carporate sell outs..
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Frug
Zenithal Harvest
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Posted - 2007.06.08 16:39:00 -
[113]
I was gonna respond to more scorpio, but you're getting a little rabid in here.
You really should train up the Gallente tree... Oh wait. You are. Good. Do that. You've played longer than me. It shouldn't be that much trouble.
My impression sure hasn't changed though. I've seen enough experienced players defend the caldari pvp. Most (not all) of the ships are weak solo, but so what. They have their strengths and their place in fleets. The discussion's been done to death. Everyone knows Gal ships are murderous in solo, and you want caldari ships to match them head on, despite all the other strengths caldari have. Meh. Just train your gall.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Setana Manoro
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.08 16:46:00 -
[114]
Originally by: GROSSO ok someone cry ... and you gonna nerf the drake whats the point ? drake have no damage to have a good tank... cant you see it ?
can you show me a drake killing a bs ? i can show you a myrmidon killig a bs... and i m not saying to nerf myrmidon.. is a good ship... i can live with that ... but stop nerfing because ppl cry . i dont wanna be trainning to ship... and then NERF .
TEST before launch the ships.
1 - in EVE, 80% of players are Caldari. 2 - out of those Caldari players, most fly Caldari. 3 - ppl who fly gallente/minmatarr are a minority - won't say that amarr flyers are becoming extinct because that is already known. 4 - CCP decided to balance out the shield passive recharge rate on BC's. And consider the fact that they are doing that and affecting 90-95% of the ppl on TQ, not just one ship, not just 1 race. You aren't the ones affected, this is not Caldari-Online. I understand why CCP did the Caldari rave EVE in easy mode but enough is bloody enough. You got too complacent and you cannot think outside of F1-F7. So, who is the biggest whiner now ?
Fact was the entire passive shield tanked Tier 2 BC line-up was overpowered and CCP decided to nerf it. Got a problem with it ? Tough cookies ! ---
Adopt a goon today, goons need lub and support too. Do you want him out in the cold, starving ? |
Zixxa
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Posted - 2007.06.08 17:17:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Setana Manoro
1 - in EVE, 80% of players are Caldari.
May be in Jita where you are trying to find veldparm but not in 0.0, kid.
Originally by: Setana Manoro
2 - out of those Caldari players, most fly Caldari.
Welcome to the frontline. Only hunters flyig Caldari. PvP is not for Caldari.
Originally by: Setana Manoro
3 - ppl who fly gallente/minmatarr are a minority - won't say that amarr flyers are becoming extinct because that is already known.
Abaddon. Bum! Armageddon. Bum! Curse. Bum! Zealot. Bum! Pilgrim. Bum! More than enough powerful ships to be useful in any kind of PvP from solo upto fleet/
Even punisher for low-sec piracy.
Originally by: Setana Manoro
4 - CCP decided to balance out the shield passive recharge rate on BC's. And consider the fact that they are doing that and affecting 90-95% of the ppl on TQ, not just one ship, not just 1 race.
It seems, that you are not smart enough to understand that nerfing of passive shield tank on BC is killing Drake. Because Drake is the only ship in the game(except miserable Ferox - really ship for idiots )based on passive tanking. Low DPS, slow and non-agile, difficult to fit, but good passive tank. Now passive tank is nerfed. Who needs Drake now? Take Myrmidon!
--------------------------------- Hint 1: Train for Mega, not for Rokh Hint 2: Abaddon is uber fleet BS. R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
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Zixxa
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Posted - 2007.06.08 17:24:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Frug You really should train up the Gallente tree...
Truth. Drop Caldari to the hell.
Originally by: Frug My impression sure hasn't changed though. I've seen enough experienced players defend the caldari pvp.
May be they had been not so experienced as you think? I see almost no experienced players trying Caldari in PvP.
Originally by: Frug Most (not all) of the ships are weak solo, but so what. They have their strengths and their place in fleets.
Just for you information, friend. In fleet Caldari ships are useles with literally 1(one)exceptions. Eagle. Anti-frig support. Rook may be useful but it depends from the situation.
Caldari ships useful in small gangs. Of course with good Gang Leader.
Originally by: Frug The discussion's been done to death. Everyone knows Gal ships are murderous in solo, and you want caldari ships to match them head on, despite all the other strengths caldari have. Meh. Just train your gall.
Not only Gallentes murderous. Sleipnir and Vagabond are not Gallenete ships. Curse and Pilgrim also ot Gallente. --------------------------------- Hint 1: Train for Mega, not for Rokh Hint 2: Abaddon is uber fleet BS. R.I.P. <Torpedo Raven> R.I.P. <Eagle> R.I.P. <ECM> R.I.P. <Drake>
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Katana Sengoku
Minmatar The Knights Templar Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.08 17:34:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Yep, in short, i have diversified, but that's after i really saw all viable Caldari ships, nerfed in a bad way. and why should a player move away from their chosen race? Yes they are different ships with different purposes, but even in the case of Scorps, and rokhs, they got nerfed. I don't see anyone nerfing the Lachesis for example and the overpowered Sensor dampening.. etc.. i guess lots of people do blob fests to see single ships bonuses and the lack thereof on Caldari crafts.. but hey..
as it turns out as i mentioned, Caldari is turned to mission running (t1 version ships) to cosmos missions (t2 versions)ships. Then again, nerfing missions (if it happens) will be another indirect Caldari nerf :) lol..
I don't know, I just don't like the fact that every single class of Caldari ships gets nerfed.. usually and VERY unfortunately AFTER you do spend the time to learn the skills for that class...
again, pity..
I don't know what you keep ranting about... Caldari has a wide variety of very effective ships. Just becuase there's something that doesn't fit your skills or wants, you think its a horrible ship? Raven, very good... Scorp, very good... Drake, very good, and still will be very good... Falcon, Cerb, Crow, Hawk, Eagle, Blackbird... all great ships if you have the skills to do what they are made to do.
Not everyone has the drone skills, or wants to nano around like a freak... I know some people who will ONLY use missles. Should they move to another race? Caldari is great... they are great in pvp, missions, ratting... you name it.
You think there's this ONE great ship we all should fly and train for... there's not. I can be just as effective or more in my Drake than you in your Myrm. Plain and simple.
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000Hunter000
Gallente Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.06.08 17:59:00 -
[118]
Hm someone commented that the drake will now suck on L4's.. I can only LOL very hard at that, first off i was allready amazed that a BC could do L4's solo, i mean, that alone should tell u it's too uber, but then he said it would now suck cuz ccp nerfed the passive tank.. erm.. hello? u ever used ACTIVE hardners? prolly not right?
I'll say it again, i have another char in a drake and it's ALMOST as good as my NH, he can solo most L4's without a single warpout and deal a raw 300 damage per launcher every 6 seconds.
so the nerf will be on the CS also huh? OMG MY POOR PASSIVE TANK!!! oh.. wait.. i don't passive tank anyways HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
But if anyone wants to sell his drake i'll take it for 20 mill, evemail me ingame. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 20:12:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Katana Sengoku
Originally by: Black Scorpio
Yep, in short, i have diversified, but that's after i really saw all viable Caldari ships, nerfed in a bad way. and why should a player move away from their chosen race? Yes they are different ships with different purposes, but even in the case of Scorps, and rokhs, they got nerfed. I don't see anyone nerfing the Lachesis for example and the overpowered Sensor dampening.. etc.. i guess lots of people do blob fests to see single ships bonuses and the lack thereof on Caldari crafts.. but hey..
as it turns out as i mentioned, Caldari is turned to mission running (t1 version ships) to cosmos missions (t2 versions)ships. Then again, nerfing missions (if it happens) will be another indirect Caldari nerf :) lol..
I don't know, I just don't like the fact that every single class of Caldari ships gets nerfed.. usually and VERY unfortunately AFTER you do spend the time to learn the skills for that class...
again, pity..
I don't know what you keep ranting about... Caldari has a wide variety of very effective ships. Just becuase there's something that doesn't fit your skills or wants, you think its a horrible ship? Raven, very good... Scorp, very good... Drake, very good, and still will be very good... Falcon, Cerb, Crow, Hawk, Eagle, Blackbird... all great ships if you have the skills to do what they are made to do.
Not everyone has the drone skills, or wants to nano around like a freak... I know some people who will ONLY use missles. Should they move to another race? Caldari is great... they are great in pvp, missions, ratting... you name it.
You think there's this ONE great ship we all should fly and train for... there's not. I can be just as effective or more in my Drake than you in your Myrm. Plain and simple.
Well friend.. I can fly all of these you mentioned: Falcon, Cerb, Crow, Hawk, Eagle, Blackbird... including the command ships, and more, all qith quite decent skills,
What is appauling is the fact that each one of these has a better version/alternative in the face of another race's ship. That IS the point if you don't grasp it. Skills in flying them is not the issue.
But enough about that, what CCP wants, they put in through, but I just feel real sorry for The Caldari role play part in this game.. plainly it sucks in PvP.. albeit everyone boasting that EvE is a PvP game. Now couple that with everyone boasting that you see 90% of this game is Caldari, well what do you expect, people will run missions of course, that's what these ships are good for, that's what people flying them do. Period. People working on PvP just train another race, cause as everyone knows, caldari ships are just under par. Can you beat the occasional underfitted guy in certain cases, yes, can you win against equally skilled pilot from another race in same class ship, most likely no.
Hope CCP finds more in Caldari than a PvE race.. really hope that becomes the case some day...
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.06.08 20:14:00 -
[120]
Originally by: 000Hunter000 Hm someone commented that the drake will now suck on L4's.. I can only LOL very hard at that, first off i was allready amazed that a BC could do L4's solo, i mean, that alone should tell u it's too uber, but then he said it would now suck cuz ccp nerfed the passive tank.. erm.. hello? u ever used ACTIVE hardners? prolly not right?
I'll say it again, i have another char in a drake and it's ALMOST as good as my NH, he can solo most L4's without a single warpout and deal a raw 300 damage per launcher every 6 seconds.
so the nerf will be on the CS also huh? OMG MY POOR PASSIVE TANK!!! oh.. wait.. i don't passive tank anyways HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
But if anyone wants to sell his drake i'll take it for 20 mill, evemail me ingame.
Hunter, i also bet that you are using your "other" char in PvP instead of your Gal ships right? .. oh probably no.. huh.. don't you want to have this UBER ship on your side in PvP???
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