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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.12 16:23:00 -
[1]
Right now the Hype and Mega are too similar in performance to justify the extra cost of the Hype. Additionally, IMO the Hype was intended to be a better blaster ship than the Mega, with it's faster base speed and faster lock time and larger cap and eight guns and smaller drone bay. The problem here are the bonuses and the slot layout: the Mega already has them.
So why not switch it? Keep everything else the same, but give the Hype the 8/4/7 layout and the tracking/damage bonus, and change the Mega to a 8/5/6 layout and give it the rep/damage bonus? Leave everything else the same.
What this does: makes the Hype a better pure blaster ship, making more use of it's 8 guns, since it's guns are the focus of the ship. The second bonus isn't wasted on something that doesn't contribute to it's success as a blaster ship (i.e. useless rep bonus), and the slot layout is the same as the Mega's is currently, and everyone agrees that is perfectly acceptable/balanced for the existing ship, so it shouldn't be an issue with the Hype.
All of the current capabilities of the Hype would now be moved to the Mega: rep bonus and 5th mid for flexibility of fitmet. Additionally, it would have it's larger drone bay (125m3) for more drone based damage than the Hype, and would be a more flexible overall platform, while the Hype would become more of a purebread, more higly focused ship.
As a side note, I'd also recommend that the Hype get a mass reduction, an inertia reduction, or both, in comparison to the Mega, as it needs to stop/start much faster in order to use blasters effectively.
The proposed changes don't mess with total DPS numbers, or overall tanking of either ship. It just changes how they do it. I really don't see anything objectionable. Anyone else?
Because I said so...
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Lore Isander
Caldari Sybrite Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.12 16:26:00 -
[2]
NO! Hyperion looks damn fugly, never want to fly it ---
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.06.12 16:26:00 -
[3]
I'd say leave the slot layout as they are, but switch the bonuses: the Hype would then be a sniper extra-ordinaire and the Mega would remain the king of blasterage.
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sdmbist5 miner
CORE.
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Posted - 2007.06.12 16:34:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus I'd say leave the slot layout as they are, but switch the bonuses: the Hype would then be a sniper extra-ordinaire and the Mega would remain the king of blasterage.
mega with neutron II's and void wouldn't be able to hit a sieged dreadnought without it's tracking bonus.
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.06.12 16:38:00 -
[5]
Originally by: sdmbist5 miner
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus I'd say leave the slot layout as they are, but switch the bonuses: the Hype would then be a sniper extra-ordinaire and the Mega would remain the king of blasterage.
mega with neutron II's and void wouldn't be able to hit a sieged dreadnought without it's tracking bonus.
Even with a web?
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Miss KillSome
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.06.12 16:42:00 -
[6]
Hyp is the best looking ship in-game, apart from absoulution, so stfu!
And yes, i would agree, coz i dont see hyp as a blaster boat atm, in the matter of fact, i dont see any use of hyp at the moment that mega couldnt do it better except for tanking..
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Valandril
Caldari Resurrection R i s e
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Posted - 2007.06.12 16:47:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: sdmbist5 miner
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus I'd say leave the slot layout as they are, but switch the bonuses: the Hype would then be a sniper extra-ordinaire and the Mega would remain the king of blasterage.
mega with neutron II's and void wouldn't be able to hit a sieged dreadnought without it's tracking bonus.
Even with a web?
Dread in siege is immune to ewar u nab :P ---
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.12 16:51:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Lore Isander NO! Hyperion looks damn fugly, never want to fly it
I'm really torn on this issue. The reason I planned my suggestion the way that I did: the Hype looks HORRIBLE with only 7 guns fit, and putting an 8th gun on the Mega model looks ok. So making the Mega model the Tier 3 ship with 8 guns and all they current Hype's stats with the existing Mega slot layout and bonuses would be good, but then you're left with a Hype with only 7 turret slots, and that's just too ugly for words.
CCP really need to design their ships better art wise to accommodate odd numbered turret setups without ruining their bilateral symmetry and looks.
Because I said so...
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sdmbist5 miner
CORE.
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Posted - 2007.06.12 16:57:00 -
[9]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Lore Isander NO! Hyperion looks damn fugly, never want to fly it
I'm really torn on this issue. The reason I planned my suggestion the way that I did: the Hype looks HORRIBLE with only 7 guns fit, and putting an 8th gun on the Mega model looks ok. So making the Mega model the Tier 3 ship with 8 guns and all they current Hype's stats with the existing Mega slot layout and bonuses would be good, but then you're left with a Hype with only 7 turret slots, and that's just too ugly for words.
CCP really need to design their ships better art wise to accommodate odd numbered turret setups without ruining their bilateral symmetry and looks.
At least gun users get to see thier weapons. Try flying a missile boat and watch every single missile drop from the center point of the ship every launch =(
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.12 16:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Valandril
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: sdmbist5 miner
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus I'd say leave the slot layout as they are, but switch the bonuses: the Hype would then be a sniper extra-ordinaire and the Mega would remain the king of blasterage.
mega with neutron II's and void wouldn't be able to hit a sieged dreadnought without it's tracking bonus.
Even with a web?
Dread in siege is immune to ewar u nab :P
He's making a point. A blaster Mega with no tracking bonus would be worthless.
Because I said so...
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.12 16:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: sdmbist5 miner
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Lore Isander NO! Hyperion looks damn fugly, never want to fly it
I'm really torn on this issue. The reason I planned my suggestion the way that I did: the Hype looks HORRIBLE with only 7 guns fit, and putting an 8th gun on the Mega model looks ok. So making the Mega model the Tier 3 ship with 8 guns and all they current Hype's stats with the existing Mega slot layout and bonuses would be good, but then you're left with a Hype with only 7 turret slots, and that's just too ugly for words.
CCP really need to design their ships better art wise to accommodate odd numbered turret setups without ruining their bilateral symmetry and looks.
At least gun users get to see thier weapons. Try flying a missile boat and watch every single missile drop from the center point of the ship every launch =(
TBH I think it would be cool as hell to see external missile launchers. Then you could tell who had torps/cruise etc. Hehe.
Because I said so...
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2007.06.12 17:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Valandril
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: sdmbist5 miner
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus I'd say leave the slot layout as they are, but switch the bonuses: the Hype would then be a sniper extra-ordinaire and the Mega would remain the king of blasterage.
mega with neutron II's and void wouldn't be able to hit a sieged dreadnought without it's tracking bonus.
Even with a web?
Dread in siege is immune to ewar u nab :P
He's making a point. A blaster Mega with no tracking bonus would be worthless.
Why? As far as I know, pulse lasers have even worse base tracking, and none of the Amarr BSes have tracking bonuses, and yet that doesn't stop us from using them. As long as you have a web, you're ok.
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Segmentor
Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.12 17:26:00 -
[13]
Nah, swapping ship tiers would make no sense. What i'd like to see though, is swapping hypes extra midslot for another lowslot, and upping its agillity abit, and then doing the opposite to the mega.
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Corwain
Gallente Zero Team
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Posted - 2007.06.12 18:12:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Valandril Dread in siege is immune to ewar u nab :P
Dread in siege goes 0m/s and has a massive sig anyways u nab :P
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Bailian Moxtain
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.06.12 19:06:00 -
[15]
Ive been flying a hyperion for some time now, and i think it's ****ty. The tracking is very bad, and i prefer not to fit a tracking comp on the ship...
Go mega, go!
- made in Norway - |
murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.12 20:02:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Bailian Moxtain Ive been flying a hyperion for some time now, and i think it's ****ty. The tracking is very bad, and i prefer not to fit a tracking comp on the ship...
Go mega, go!
Right now the Mega is indeed a better blaster ship than the Hype, but if the ships were changed like I propose, the Hype would be a *great* blaster ship, and the Mega would still have great utility.
Because I said so...
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El Yatta
Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.06.12 20:40:00 -
[17]
I dont see the point... in general, the main complaint is that the tier 3 isn't the better pure-blaster boat, gank-fit, DPS-heavy. This isn't unreasonable, but what it boils down to is ISK - you want to be able to choose between two cheaper versatile boats, and pay top dollar for the damage machine.
Anyone who is flying properly T2 fit blaster BS shouldn't be worried about ISK anyway, so why bother? It seems to be a waste of a dev's time for actual no change in choice or ability, unless you're somehow too poor to lose a hyperion, in which case you probably should fly the equally-versatile domi. One of your two rotating signatures exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected]) |
murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas
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Posted - 2007.06.12 21:32:00 -
[18]
Originally by: El Yatta I dont see the point... in general, the main complaint is that the tier 3 isn't the better pure-blaster boat, gank-fit, DPS-heavy. This isn't unreasonable, but what it boils down to is ISK - you want to be able to choose between two cheaper versatile boats, and pay top dollar for the damage machine.
Anyone who is flying properly T2 fit blaster BS shouldn't be worried about ISK anyway, so why bother? It seems to be a waste of a dev's time for actual no change in choice or ability, unless you're somehow too poor to lose a hyperion, in which case you probably should fly the equally-versatile domi.
Huh? You're missing the point entirely.
How to make a great blaster boat: Hang 8 guns on it, give it a damage bonus and a secondary bonus that is *useful*, give it 4 mids for the minimum needed utility mods (mwd web scram injector) and then give it enough low slots to be able to tank/gank effectively. (7 for instance)
The limiting factor in blaster ship design (at the moment) is cap. It's only practical to run one injector, as you don't have the grid/cpu/slots to run two heavy injectors without sacrificing too much of the rest of your setup.
The concept here is to maximise the gun effectiveness with the damage/tracking bonus, and allow for better passive tanking (using plates) with one more low slot so as to mitigate some of the cap requirements for running the ship while in combat.
Moving more of the DPS to guns (8th gun, smaller drone bay with one less heavy drone) allows players to recieve more benefit from their gunnery skills and allows them to concentrate on gunnery skills rather than drone skills. (Not that any decent Gallente pilot is going to ignore drone skills anyway)
The point here is that the Hype is a miserable half assed blaster ship, only marginally competent at the job, and the Mega does as well or better at being a blaster ship, and just about everything else as well.
By swapping the bonuses/slot layouts, the Hype becomes a truely *brilliant* blaster ship, doing everything right, and the Mega becomes a true Tier 2 BS- more flexible in design, less expensive than the Tier 3 BS, and more versatile with it's fitting.
Because I said so...
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Gabriel Karade
Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.12 23:18:00 -
[19]
What I find objectionable is someone messing around with something as fundamental as the slot layout on my Megathron, for essentially no good reason at all.
The Dominix, Megathron and Hyperion are all good blaster ships, and all subtlety different.
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Video - 'War-Machine' |
El Yatta
Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.06.13 00:21:00 -
[20]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: El Yatta I dont see the point... in general, the main complaint is that the tier 3 isn't the better pure-blaster boat, gank-fit, DPS-heavy. This isn't unreasonable, but what it boils down to is ISK - you want to be able to choose between two cheaper versatile boats, and pay top dollar for the damage machine.
Anyone who is flying properly T2 fit blaster BS shouldn't be worried about ISK anyway, so why bother? It seems to be a waste of a dev's time for actual no change in choice or ability, unless you're somehow too poor to lose a hyperion, in which case you probably should fly the equally-versatile domi.
Huh? You're missing the point entirely.
How to make a great blaster boat: Hang 8 guns on it, give it a damage bonus and a secondary bonus that is *useful*, give it 4 mids for the minimum needed utility mods (mwd web scram injector) and then give it enough low slots to be able to tank/gank effectively. (7 for instance)
The limiting factor in blaster ship design (at the moment) is cap. It's only practical to run one injector, as you don't have the grid/cpu/slots to run two heavy injectors without sacrificing too much of the rest of your setup.
The concept here is to maximise the gun effectiveness with the damage/tracking bonus, and allow for better passive tanking (using plates) with one more low slot so as to mitigate some of the cap requirements for running the ship while in combat.
Moving more of the DPS to guns (8th gun, smaller drone bay with one less heavy drone) allows players to recieve more benefit from their gunnery skills and allows them to concentrate on gunnery skills rather than drone skills. (Not that any decent Gallente pilot is going to ignore drone skills anyway)
The point here is that the Hype is a miserable half assed blaster ship, only marginally competent at the job, and the Mega does as well or better at being a blaster ship, and just about everything else as well.
By swapping the bonuses/slot layouts, the Hype becomes a truely *brilliant* blaster ship, doing everything right, and the Mega becomes a true Tier 2 BS- more flexible in design, less expensive than the Tier 3 BS, and more versatile with it's fitting.
No, I dont think I have. Your argument, suitably obfuscated, is that you want a mega with an 8th turret. Like I said, this isnt ridiculous, but its just not necessary. As you said, if you have T2 large blasters, you should have T2 heavy drones, so its no difference in damage, which is what matters in the end. I dont really need the patronising lecture on "what matters in a blasterboat" when i've been flying them for three years, but anyway none of it really convinced me that there's a NEED for a swap.
Your other argument, that it would be making the hype "brilliant" and the mega a "true tier2 BS" (i.e. cheaper) is just down to two entirely subjective points - that you dont want to pay for the hype at its cost, and that you think its mediocre. Plenty of people would think otherwise. One of your two rotating signatures exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected]) |
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Hephaesteus
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.06.13 00:36:00 -
[21]
You must be joking. The Hype is borked atm, so you want to nerf the Mega. If the Hype does not cut the mustard it needs a buff, but please leave the Mega alone.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr STK Scientific Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.06.13 01:07:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Valandril
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Originally by: sdmbist5 miner
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus I'd say leave the slot layout as they are, but switch the bonuses: the Hype would then be a sniper extra-ordinaire and the Mega would remain the king of blasterage.
mega with neutron II's and void wouldn't be able to hit a sieged dreadnought without it's tracking bonus.
Even with a web?
Dread in siege is immune to ewar u nab :P
Why would a web help; aren't sieged dreads immobile anyway? __________________________________ <-- Behold, the eve-o forums |
True Ace
Gallente Blood Moon Masques
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Posted - 2007.06.13 01:42:00 -
[23]
there is nothing wrong with the hyperion. id fly it over a mega any day. ALL TIER 3 bs have massive tank with decent dps. why should the hyperion be any different. dnt take item description too literally. hyperion has 5 med slots. u have the space for a tracking mod which means u get more dps from turrets on a hype than a mega i do believe. so whats the problem. if u dnt see a reason to fly a certain ship by all means dnt fly it. spend your isk on things u like or find effective for YOU.
IM YOUR KING'S KING. |
Adamantium Beam
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Posted - 2007.06.13 10:50:00 -
[24]
Yes they are too similar, just give 7 low slot to the hyp and remove the megathron
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Tuea
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Posted - 2007.06.13 11:41:00 -
[25]
I don't think there's a problem specifically with the hyp, the problem is with general pvp atm. When the NOS I-win button gets fixed and people can effectively use active tanks again the hyp will come into it's own.
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Lore Isander
Caldari Sybrite Inc.
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Posted - 2007.06.13 11:49:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Tuea I don't think there's a problem specifically with the hyp, the problem is with general pvp atm. When the NOS I-win button gets fixed and people can effectively use active tanks again the hyp will come into it's own.
Qft..
But when will the nos nerf come? That is something no one can tell... ---
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madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.06.13 12:01:00 -
[27]
Hyp =
1. awesome tanking vessel, that can deal some decent damage (especially for that tank) 2 Good tanking vessel, that deals very good damage 3. Not that awesome tank, major dps
1. = no magstab 2. = 1 magstab 3. = 2-3 magstab
It is infact on of the balanced ships in the game, but ffs the mass, the mass, OMG its so slow...Still its awesome. To just warp in and do some major tanking
Megathron = far more agile blasterboat, very good with plates.
_________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Jacob Holland
Gallente 19th Star Logistics
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Posted - 2007.06.13 12:01:00 -
[28]
It was said when the Hyp first hit the Dev Blogs that it had no role, that it was just doing the same job as the 'thron but not doing it as well... Leave the 'thron alone and find an actual job for the Hyp instead. --
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Victus Fidelus
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Posted - 2007.06.13 12:24:00 -
[29]
You gallentre peeps are so spoiled..... Hype aint bad...just the mega owns.
So your complaining that the mega is soo good its close to the hype so thats enough reason to make it better.
how about you take a look at other races
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Xoduse
Gallente Beasts of Burden YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.06.13 16:19:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Jacob Holland It was said when the Hyp first hit the Dev Blogs that it had no role, that it was just doing the same job as the 'thron but not doing it as well... Leave the 'thron alone and find an actual job for the Hyp instead.
I agree the mega has been the the blasterking for a long long time. Don't fudge it up I love the look of a mega screaming towards a target.
Just make the hype do something that the mega doesnt do better. I guess it tanks better.. ---------------------
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