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Keira Fordring
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.18 22:26:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Keira Fordring on 18/06/2007 22:25:35 When I looked through the contracts today I noticed a trend with the courier types that honestly makes them seem like nothing but database bloat.
There were several public contracts for only a few hundred m3 of items but with an $18 mil collateral / few hundred thousand reward. There were also several with well over $100 mil collateral and a few hundred thousand for reward.
None of these couriers were so large that they'd require any special training outside an industrial. Some were even a mere one or two jumps from pickup to dropoff. I think out of all the courier contracts listed there were less than 5 that actually seemed valid (reasonable ratio of size/collateral/reward).
Why would anyone put up a multi-million dollar collateral for something that pays less than $500,000? If you already have the $18 million+ to put up as collateral, is an extra $500,000 really that important?
IMO the courier contracts seem like a waste of database space. There is already a separate 'item exchange' category so if people are using couriers to trade items it's just redundant.
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Krxon Blade
Caldari Apogee Group
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Posted - 2007.06.18 22:38:00 -
[2]
That is only your point of view. Look at couple examples: - If you need some stuff to be carried from point A to point B and you don't have time or will to do it, what will you do? Currier contract! - If you have rigged ships and you want to transfer them with freighter, what will you do? Use courier contracts, because otherwise you cant fit non repackaged ship in another ship. - If you need fresh nOOb meat in low sec, what will you do? Setup lucrative courier contract with destination in your blob
So if you cant find purpose for those don't tell rest of us that CC's are usseless.
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The Pointless
Gallente Plastic Toys
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Posted - 2007.06.18 22:43:00 -
[3]
Edited by: The Pointless on 18/06/2007 22:41:57 I speak from experience here. If you count a ingame converstion with a member of FIX experience.
The goods may be small, but depending on the actual item (named, Tech 2) the collateral will depend on its value on the market. If you look at the stuff on the market with "I" at the end of their name and compare it with the same item with a "II" on the end (those are the Tech 2 versions), you'll notice the price difference between the two. Anyways! If the actual goods that need transporting are those sort of items, the collateral is understandable. You wouldn't slap a 50,000ISK collateral on a gun you forked out 70,000,000ISK for, would you? If you understand that.
On the other hand... the author of the contract could just be just being a greedy little goit. Or a pirate pulling a crafty.
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"Breaking News! The Pointless hates GIFs!" |
Tenebrion Darkness
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Posted - 2007.06.18 23:16:00 -
[4]
The collateral on most of the contracts I have done were right on with value of the goods, mostly t2 and named stuff like pointless said. Those few that weren't got failed.
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Sphynx Stormlord
Gallente Anqara Tech
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Posted - 2007.06.18 23:42:00 -
[5]
Look at my contract history in game - I have issued quite a LOT of courier contracts, which have been successfly completed for me.
Some people clearly like doing them.
People actually accept and complete missions with 500 mil collatral and only 2 mil reward. Personally I wouldnt put up that much colatral for 1-2 mil reward but that is why I issue the missions rather than do them.
Bare in mind that the missions you see open are the ones which no one has accepted, and thus it will inevitably include all the **** ones that no one wants to do.
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Wendat Huron
Lupus Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.18 23:49:00 -
[6]
I'd like to see them going back to being anonymous, after all it's the collateral and destination which regulates what gets done, no need for anyone to know I'm the one sending the package.
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Sphynx Stormlord
Gallente Anqara Tech
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Posted - 2007.06.18 23:55:00 -
[7]
I disagree; I like that people can see that the last however many courier contracts I have issued have been completed successfully (ie the reward was paid and the collatral was returned).
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Wendat Huron
Lupus Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.18 23:58:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord I disagree; I like that people can see that the last however many courier contracts I have issued have been completed successfully (ie the reward was paid and the collatral was returned).
My problem is that not many people do my missions once they see it's me, that's gotta be it, now this is not a popularity contest but a service I'm trying to get provided, I want the option to field undisclosed courier missions.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.19 00:06:00 -
[9]
Courier missions are extremely handy for internal corp / alliance logistics.
Take for example some time ago when our corp moved office from one side of Empire to the other, and had a massive load of stuff that needed to be moved. We just set up a whole bunch of in-corp courier missions with moderate pay outs and told the corp members to go nuts with it, and move whatever they could be bothered to. It all got moved, with not massive effort on the part of the person in charge of the whole affair, and with a decent payout going to the members. Genius.
Dunno really if there's anything like as useful a use for public ones, but they're worth keeping in the game just for that. --------
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codex09
Minmatar Entropy Systems Mining Co.
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Posted - 2007.06.19 00:09:00 -
[10]
I use the courier contract system all the time to get things I have brought couriered to me.
I usually ask the value of the goods as collat. and pay at least 800k ISK for the job even if it is only 4 jumps. I use this system because sometimes I just don't have the time to go get things I have brought, OR I am just too lazy to go get them.
I agree that asking millions and millions for collat is a bit of a counter to getting the job done but I guess the people that ask that much have good reason (Maybe it helps to weed out people that take on contracts just to stuff people around)
It would be nice if there was an automated way of working out what an amount of collat should be (eg. The system checks the items that are going to be couriered and checks market price for them then makes/suggests a price for collat.)
[url=http://profile.xfire.com/codex09][/url] In The Beginning Man Lived Just Like The Animals & For Some Nothing Has Changed!?! |
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Keira Fordring
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.19 06:18:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Keira Fordring on 19/06/2007 06:19:34
Originally by: Krxon Blade
So if you cant find purpose for those don't tell rest of us that CC's are usseless.
My point wasn't that I can't find a purpose for CC's. I know exactly what the purpose is. My point which you failed to grasp is they're NOT currently being used that way.
When I looked at the list today, there were around 10 contracts from the same person each with an 18 mil collateral and in most cases less than 1k m3 items and less than 100k reward.
There were a couple with a 180 mil collateral and only 40 m3 worth of items, paying out 1.8 mil.
These types of contracts (which were the majority of the ones in my list) are a WASTE of database space. The trend isn't the few people that posted here, the trend is to abuse the CC's, most likely attmpting to run the scams that used to be rampant on the old version.
Originally by: Krxon Blade
- If you need fresh nOOb meat in low sec, what will you do? Setup lucrative courier contract with destination in your blob
Except the examples I cited are not "lucrative". A 180 mil collateral for a 1.8 mil return is in no means lucrative. Furthermore, if a person has 180 mil they're most likely not a n00b either.
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Keira Fordring
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.19 06:18:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Keira Fordring on 19/06/2007 06:19:34
Originally by: Krxon Blade
So if you cant find purpose for those don't tell rest of us that CC's are usseless.
My point wasn't that I can't find a purpose for CC's. I know exactly what the purpose is. My point which you failed to grasp is they're NOT currently being used that way.
When I looked at the list today, there were around 10 contracts from the same person each with an 18 mil collateral and in most cases less than 1k m3 items and less than 100k reward.
There were a couple with a 180 mil collateral and only 40 m3 worth of items, paying out 1.8 mil.
These types of contracts (which were the majority of the ones in my list) are a WASTE of database space. The trend isn't the few people that posted here, the trend is to abuse the CC's, most likely attmpting to run the scams that used to be rampant on the old version.
Originally by: Krxon Blade
- If you need fresh nOOb meat in low sec, what will you do? Setup lucrative courier contract with destination in your blob
Except the examples I cited are not "lucrative". A 180 mil collateral for a 1.8 mil return is in no means lucrative. Furthermore, if a person has 180 mil they're most likely not a n00b either.
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BluOrange
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.19 06:23:00 -
[13]
What you tend to find is that the courier contracts that are worth doing disappear off the market quickly. I trained up my contracting skill so that I could get more contracts out there, it can be quite an efficient trading method for certain things.
Recruitment FAQ |
BluOrange
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.06.19 06:23:00 -
[14]
What you tend to find is that the courier contracts that are worth doing disappear off the market quickly. I trained up my contracting skill so that I could get more contracts out there, it can be quite an efficient trading method for certain things.
Recruitment FAQ |
Necrosmith
Gallente Excellence In Business Corporation
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Posted - 2007.06.19 06:30:00 -
[15]
I do courier work all the time through private courier contracts. I usually provide collateral over a billion isk and I charge $533k ISK/jump.
I have plenty to do, and my rate makes it worth my time. ------------- "Isk is cheap. Life is cheaper. This week, they're having a sale on both." Laugh until you cry: Battle Asses |
Corporati Capitalis
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Posted - 2007.06.19 06:53:00 -
[16]
My contracts also get accepted and fulfilled quite fast, sometimes within minutes. I don't know why, probably because I try to pay fair rewards?
For 15 jumps and a small item (most often between 0.1m¦ and 20m¦) My rewards are between 5% and 15% of the item's value. For cheap-ish items worth 2.5m, I pay 400k. For ones worth 10-12m, I pay 900k-1m. Also I try to get enough stuff first, so I can put up several contracts and make it worthwhile for the contractee to travel that far.
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Nesa
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.19 06:54:00 -
[17]
I put up a courier contract the other night, I actually needed 40m3 moved fast, all high sec, 3m reward, 35m collateral. Someone had done it within 30mins.
I've seen LOTS moved through the courier system at quite reasonable rates for both parties... It's the crap ones you find will last for a week. The good ones get filled fast. The very nature of the missions though is that you're going to have to have a collateral 10x+ maybe 20-50x the reward. Because not many people are willing to put up a contract to move 10m isk worth of goods for a 10m reward. Not unless it somehow involves them making 10m by doing it.
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cioran wyborowa
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Posted - 2007.06.19 07:11:00 -
[18]
I dont know if your being arrogant or purposly discriminating but 500k is a helluvalot to some people. I bet you dont even know what a database is
actually, **** you. because I grew up with courier contracts.
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Phoebus Athenian
Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.19 07:20:00 -
[19]
I like the courier system... its one more thing that you can do in eve thats quite neat. I definitely don't like to see it abused as described in previous posts... But when I get tired of all the killing, ratting, missioning and mining even... I run a few couriers just for fun ;) ---
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The Snowman
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2007.06.19 10:12:00 -
[20]
I understand why collateral might be priced as it is.. but I do agree with them being a waste!
I always look at courier contracts, but the rewards for them STINK!.. I mean.. 100'000 isk?.. I can go and kill 2/3 rat in 0.5 to make that much money..
And the contracts which DO look worth it, maybe a million isk reward, want you to take 80'000 M3 to a low sec or even 0.0 space.
SO I agree.. courier contracts are a hideous waste of space.
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El Verbatim
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Posted - 2007.06.19 10:34:00 -
[21]
Originally by: The Snowman I understand why collateral might be priced as it is.. but I do agree with them being a waste!
I always look at courier contracts, but the rewards for them STINK!.. I mean.. 100'000 isk?.. I can go and kill 2/3 rat in 0.5 to make that much money..
And the contracts which DO look worth it, maybe a million isk reward, want you to take 80'000 M3 to a low sec or even 0.0 space.
SO I agree.. courier contracts are a hideous waste of space.
Don't trash what you don't know please...
Most good courier contracts are gone in a matter of minutes. They don't stay on the list for too long. It's not because you can't find the good ones that it means there are no good ones.
Most good couriers have built up a reputation and are getting more and more private courier contracts instead of public ones. I know I usually send an evemail with a number of contracts linked to the same guys. If they're up for it, they'll accept it and deliver. If not, it will stay on the list and some other guy might do it.
I hardly ever have to wait long for a courier delivery.
Your comment is the same as saying 'Meh, the market is a waste of resources and database cause I can find these shuttles that are being sold for billion isk. It's only a tool for scammers!!!'.
Try setting up some courier missions yourself if you can't be bothered to travel 10-15 jumps and see how it goes. If you've done that 20-30 times, then give your opinion.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2007.06.19 11:25:00 -
[22]
Courier contracts are quite possibly the best way of exploiting new players and region-wide buy orders. There are many people out there who seem perfectly happy to work for incredibly low rates of pay; of course, there are also people who might just be travelling in the right direction and want to make a small additional profit from their trip. ------ Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking |
William Hart
QUANT Corp. Southern Connection
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Posted - 2007.06.19 12:29:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord I disagree; I like that people can see that the last however many courier contracts I have issued have been completed successfully (ie the reward was paid and the collatral was returned).
My problem is that not many people do my missions once they see it's me, that's gotta be it, now this is not a popularity contest but a service I'm trying to get provided, I want the option to field undisclosed courier missions.
You mean, you want to rip people off. Why else would you want this feature? People should know who they are working for and if they think working for you is too risky perhaps you should offer more incentive.
(Or just use a market alt, that any sensible person will ignore unless you offer enough to make the risk worth it!)
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Edgars Sults
LFC FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.19 12:33:00 -
[24]
I have not used public courier contracts, but I have used them for corp. Especially for carriers that bring in stuff from empire to 0.0. It's easier for them to organise stuff that way.
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Wendat Huron
Lupus Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.19 12:38:00 -
[25]
Originally by: William Hart
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord I disagree; I like that people can see that the last however many courier contracts I have issued have been completed successfully (ie the reward was paid and the collatral was returned).
My problem is that not many people do my missions once they see it's me, that's gotta be it, now this is not a popularity contest but a service I'm trying to get provided, I want the option to field undisclosed courier missions.
You mean, you want to rip people off. Why else would you want this feature? People should know who they are working for and if they think working for you is too risky perhaps you should offer more incentive.
(Or just use a market alt, that any sensible person will ignore unless you offer enough to make the risk worth it!)
They're not working for me as they think I'm a front for an enemy alliance or they don't think I'm quite the enemy enough and don't want to touch my goods they'd otherwise steal. Either way my goods aren't moving anywhere near as often as I was shipping things before the disclosing of identity.
My money's good, who I am to you should matter less, I'm not sending anyone to an outpost.
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Majon Tremkor
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.06.19 12:54:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Originally by: William Hart
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord I disagree; I like that people can see that the last however many courier contracts I have issued have been completed successfully (ie the reward was paid and the collatral was returned).
My problem is that not many people do my missions once they see it's me, that's gotta be it, now this is not a popularity contest but a service I'm trying to get provided, I want the option to field undisclosed courier missions.
You mean, you want to rip people off. Why else would you want this feature? People should know who they are working for and if they think working for you is too risky perhaps you should offer more incentive.
(Or just use a market alt, that any sensible person will ignore unless you offer enough to make the risk worth it!)
They're not working for me as they think I'm a front for an enemy alliance or they don't think I'm quite the enemy enough and don't want to touch my goods they'd otherwise steal. Either way my goods aren't moving anywhere near as often as I was shipping things before the disclosing of identity.
My money's good, who I am to you should matter less, I'm not sending anyone to an outpost.
You're assuming that's why you're not getting your goods delivered. That may be happening in some cases, I doubt it happens too often.
I regularly place courier contracts and all are taken rather quickly (usually within an hour). Perhaps your routes are too long/dangerous (low sec, 0.0) and/or the collateral/reward you offer is too small for the effort.
In general, I go with a straight 10% courier fee (20mil collateral = 2mil reward etc.) and have no problems getting stuff moved. Long trips, trips through low/0.0 are priced higher depending on the risk involved.
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Wendat Huron
Lupus Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.19 13:06:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Majon Tremkor
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Originally by: William Hart
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord I disagree; I like that people can see that the last however many courier contracts I have issued have been completed successfully (ie the reward was paid and the collatral was returned).
My problem is that not many people do my missions once they see it's me, that's gotta be it, now this is not a popularity contest but a service I'm trying to get provided, I want the option to field undisclosed courier missions.
You mean, you want to rip people off. Why else would you want this feature? People should know who they are working for and if they think working for you is too risky perhaps you should offer more incentive.
(Or just use a market alt, that any sensible person will ignore unless you offer enough to make the risk worth it!)
They're not working for me as they think I'm a front for an enemy alliance or they don't think I'm quite the enemy enough and don't want to touch my goods they'd otherwise steal. Either way my goods aren't moving anywhere near as often as I was shipping things before the disclosing of identity.
My money's good, who I am to you should matter less, I'm not sending anyone to an outpost.
You're assuming that's why you're not getting your goods delivered. That may be happening in some cases, I doubt it happens too often.
I regularly place courier contracts and all are taken rather quickly (usually within an hour). Perhaps your routes are too long/dangerous (low sec, 0.0) and/or the collateral/reward you offer is too small for the effort.
In general, I go with a straight 10% courier fee (20mil collateral = 2mil reward etc.) and have no problems getting stuff moved. Long trips, trips through low/0.0 are priced higher depending on the risk involved.
I'm assuming this as the exact same packages for the same distances at the same rates were moving just fine till they started disclosing the names of the contractors.
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Michela
Bosun Shipyards
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Posted - 2007.06.19 13:57:00 -
[28]
Quote: My point which you failed to grasp is they're NOT currently being used that way.
And you know this how? Can you see all the private, corporate, and alliance contracts that are out there?
I know that my corporation alone usually has a anywhere between 10-30 courier contracts going at a time. You don't get to see them because they're for corp members only.
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