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m0cking bird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
90
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 13:51:00 -
[661] - Quote
I once linked a quick well rounded set-up on the forums not to long ago (Before *AF changes = SISI). That set-up had a neutraliser to help the Retribution @ warp scrambler range. Here's a damage focused Retribution set-up. 175 damage per-second with scorch ammunition (without heat), 2,300ms/sec and 8,000 effective hit-points. Some pilots may end up fitting 1 or 2 overdrive injectors. The Retribution would then have a velocity of 2,900m/sec. However, the damage would fall to 160 damage per second (scorch), with 2 Overdrive injectors.
Err! 220 damage per second with multi-frequency (250 damage per second with heat).***
The ship should not get more tracking or damage.
Retribution
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S [Empty High slot]
Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters Faint Warp Disruptor I
Fourier Transform Tracking Program Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Fourier Transform Tracking Program Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
Small Energy Collision Accelerator II Small Algid Energy Administrations Unit I
Oh! My bro wants me to post his set-up. This is how he's set-up the Retribution currently.
185 damager per second with scorch. 2,600m/sec and 230 damage per second with multi-frequency (265 damage per second with heat).
Retribution
Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch S [Empty High slot]
Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters Faint Warp Disruptor I
Overdrive Injector System II Fourier Transform Tracking Program Fourier Transform Tracking Program Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Heat Sink II
Small Energy Burst Aerator I Small Energy Collision Accelerator I
-proxyyyy |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
42
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 13:52:00 -
[662] - Quote
OT: I always thought a better comparison for the firetail was the dram. The dram pretty much = firetail + range bonuses + drone bay + snakes. Jaguar didnt get tracking bonuses, was way slower, had t2 resists, had very different fitting, etc.
Prom, any word on what changes, if any, from the OP in this thread are being released? |
Prometheus Exenthal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
78
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 13:57:00 -
[663] - Quote
If I knew anything that wasn't public knowledge, it would be under the NDA CSM Alternate & PVP Samurai www.promsrage.com |
Laerise
PIE Inc.
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:01:00 -
[664] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:@Cosmic Unless your target lands on you in tackle range, that extra armor really doesnt help as much as you're making it out to.
The Enyo is flys like a brick The Enyo turns like a brick The Enyo does not tank like a brick
When you are looking to take on another AF, you dont simply glide into web range. You fling your ship at him, and then more often than not, go careening past your target so you can claw back. You have the shortest damage projection when fit with blasters, and by the time you actually get in range, that extra little 200 base armor is loong gone.
Sounds like bad manual piloting to me, you shoud drop a can at a safe and start practising Prom. |
Prometheus Exenthal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
78
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:03:00 -
[665] - Quote
I'm not saying that I do that. Surely I'm referring to those pubbies less skilled than I CSM Alternate & PVP Samurai www.promsrage.com |
Anja Talis
Mimidae Risk Solutions
12
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:19:00 -
[666] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:I'm not saying that I do that. Surely I'm referring to those pubbies less skilled than I
and its those sorts of pilots who would demonstrate a ship being OP. |
DARKSTAR POWNYOUALL
Black Rebel Rifter Club
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:21:00 -
[667] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:@DarkstarYou do make some valid points, but this isn't a thread about the Firetail and how bad it is The Firetail needs work with or without the AF boost. Did you see the part where I thought giving the Firetail 10m3 of drones? It's a direct crib from the Probe, and would give you an extra 40dps (tops) It's not only different from both AFs, but something pretty damn useful! Your right, this isn't a thread about firetails and i probly shouldnt have expected you to have some perfect fix for them off the top of ur head. And yes thats a pretty cool idea. Although IMO i think 5th mid would open up a lot more for firetail, and I can't see how it would overpower it either. Another reason I don't like the drone idea is that it forces to train drone skills to get the most out of a mater class, which isn't very fitting of a "faction" frigate.. And the 40 dps extra just gives it Jag dps which pretty much keeps it in that box tbh. I would like to see a firetail +15-20 cpu +1mid, give it an invul or shield boost or something and a better reason for me to stop armor tanking it =p ofc with only 15-20 cpu you wuld still need to juggle your fitting and maybe cut to smaller guns to fit a bit more tank, sorta along the lines of what you were suggestion before. pulls firetail out of its ditch at least and gives more reason to fly it |
Prometheus Exenthal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
78
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:29:00 -
[668] - Quote
It wouldn't get an extra slot since all the Navy frigs have 7 slots As for the drone skills, the Vigil and Probe both use drones, so it would be something most players (I'd hope) have.
CSM Alternate & PVP Samurai www.promsrage.com |
Alex Medvedov
Gunpoint Diplomacy
15
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:29:00 -
[669] - Quote
DARKSTAR POWNYOUALL wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote:@DarkstarYou do make some valid points, but this isn't a thread about the Firetail and how bad it is The Firetail needs work with or without the AF boost. Did you see the part where I thought giving the Firetail 10m3 of drones? It's a direct crib from the Probe, and would give you an extra 40dps (tops) It's not only different from both AFs, but something pretty damn useful! Your right, this isn't a thread about firetails and i probly shouldnt have expected you to have some perfect fix for them off the top of ur head. And yes thats a pretty cool idea. Although IMO i think 5th mid would open up a lot more for firetail, and I can't see how it would overpower it either. Another reason I don't like the drone idea is that it forces to train drone skills to get the most out of a mater class, which isn't very fitting of a "faction" frigate.. And the 40 dps extra just gives it Jag dps which pretty much keeps it in that box tbh. I would like to see a firetail +15 cpu +mid, give it an invul or shield boost and a better reason for me to stop armor tanking it =p
Yes and when you are at it , give my Jag 5th mid as well, +5 pg and the 5th high slot, because i dont want to be killed by Wolves and Thrashers anymore... Do you think it will have any influence on ballance? OFC it will not!
And could you please lower the cost of Jaguars? Lets say on Ruptures level?
Come on guys, are you being serious?! |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
252
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:30:00 -
[670] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:...The Firetail is the only weak Navy frigates and it should be fixed... Why are you here anyway, if your understanding of frigates is so limited then you should be no where near a balancing discussion.
Four (4) .. count them FOUR .. midslots on a high dps turret ship (yes, 120+dps is high for a T1 frigate) is insane. Firetail is probably one of the stronger navy frigs, largely due to the immense versatility of its slot configuration .. there are several very powerful fits for it whereas the other navy frigs have two, perhaps three if one pushes the criteria.
2+k/s on AB, 140+dps, scram, 5k+ EHP, TD and neut with only a single T1 rig used to fit .. yeah, sounds horribly underpowered to me .. sheesh.
But it is OK, at least now I am confident that the proposed over-buff will be toned down significantly or go back to the drawing-board .. even blind, deaf and dumb CCP employees would think twice about leaving balance in the hands of the inexperienced .. or rather I hope so.
Carry on, lobbying complete.
|
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DARKSTAR POWNYOUALL
Black Rebel Rifter Club
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:36:00 -
[671] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:It wouldn't get an extra slot since all the Navy frigs have 7 slots As for the drone skills, the Vigil and Probe both use drones, so it would be something most players (I'd hope) have.
Well maybe all factions need an extra slots. I know you weren't including highs, but Hookbill could do with a utility high badly tbh. But thats bad logic anyway, you should look at ships as a package tbh. Because its similar to ppl saying that because all other tracking bonuses are 7.5%, Retri's should be raised from 5% to 7.5%. Just to fit in right, never mind what work the ship itself needs to be balanced? All the other faction frigs may have 7 slots but all the other faction frigs are better ships then firetail as agreed. Rather then worry about the specifics, why not just give firetail what it needs to compete with them? Slicer's utility high slot is pretty much useless as well tbh, just there to keep the numbers nice |
DARKSTAR POWNYOUALL
Black Rebel Rifter Club
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:38:00 -
[672] - Quote
Alex Medvedov wrote:
Yes and when you are at it , give my Jag 5th mid as well, +5 pg and the 5th high slot, because i dont want to be killed by Wolves and Thrashers anymore... Do you think it will have any influence on ballance? OFC it will not!
And could you please lower the cost of Jaguars? Lets say on Ruptures level?
Come on guys, are you being serious?!
to be honest, i wouldn't be asking for faction frigs to be buffed if AF's weren't just buffed. considering they are exactly the same price. your jag just got an extra low slot for more dps. give that to the firetail as well then.
Quote:But it is OK, at least now I am confident that the proposed over-buff will be toned down significantly or go back to the drawing-board .. even blind, deaf and dumb CCP employees would think twice about leaving balance in the hands of the inexperienced .. or rather I hope so. I really really hope so, because t1 frigates need a buff as well otherwise. as stupid as it sounds to buff every frigate, at least it keeps the balance between their own size straight, and just makes them stronger against anything larger.
ps this af buff just made the destroyer buff largely redundant. only frigs that could take on destroyers before buff were AF's, so they buffed destroyers to fix this, now buffed AF's in respone... all this talk of buffing is crazy but wouldnt be necessary if not for this megabonused af **** |
Alex Medvedov
Gunpoint Diplomacy
15
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 14:42:00 -
[673] - Quote
DARKSTAR POWNYOUALL wrote:Alex Medvedov wrote:
Yes and when you are at it , give my Jag 5th mid as well, +5 pg and the 5th high slot, because i dont want to be killed by Wolves and Thrashers anymore... Do you think it will have any influence on ballance? OFC it will not!
And could you please lower the cost of Jaguars? Lets say on Ruptures level?
Come on guys, are you being serious?!
to be honest, i wouldn't be asking for faction frigs to be buffed if AF's weren't just buffed. considering they are exactly the same price
Ok than, Iam not in favor of those changes anyway, but can we please stay focused on AFs? |
Prometheus Exenthal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
78
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 15:00:00 -
[674] - Quote
@Hiranda You must be completely obvious to the world to think that the Firetail can even compare to the Hookbill, Comet, or Slicer. They aren't even in the same playing field. They are all just as tanky, have higher damage, and have better range projection. Even the TD Firetail (which is good) can't compete with that. I'm not saying the Firetail is awful, just that it's underpowered compared to its competitors. Even your corpmate agrees.
@Darkstar The bonus number is relevant to the ships design. The Firetail for example gets 20% damage bonus (per level) to projectiles. There is no other Minmatar ship (correct me if I'm wrong) with that bonus. The number is just a reflection of the design.
And don't go hating on that utility high on the Slicer! I know a few excellent pilots who use the ship as a super-Punisher and that slot is very much used.
As for the rest of your post, I really do think you Black Rebel guys just ignore posts. If the AF buff were cancelled tomorrow, low tier T1 Frigates would still need to be looked at. They need looking at. Period.
And as for Destroyers, they are still a handful for AFs. Put one Destroyer in a fleet and it's going to do some serious damage to any frigate. Put two Destroyers in a fleet and they're going to really hurt. Even with the added slots the new AFs do NOT have a significant increase in tank size over what's currently possible.
Destroyers are entry level ships. If you can fly a Rifter, you can fly a Thrasher. All you need is the book. They should not be able to simply lock and pop AFs without some stress. CSM Alternate & PVP Samurai www.promsrage.com |
m0cking bird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
90
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 15:34:00 -
[675] - Quote
The problem with the Firetail is that it's to versatile. However, there are alot of lame boat set-ups for this ship. Like the one below (which can school a standard nichebill). You can have very large shield or armour tank set-ups. While being able to do 140 - 150 damage per second (without heat). Some pilots choose to go with alot of electronic warfare. Some pilots even roll with artillery. I'm honestly surprised @ the amount of setups pilots come up with for the Firetail (there are alot!). Point is. Firetail is a nice looking ship. However, it is no Federation Navy Comet or Imperial Navy Slicer, but it can spank them...
Firetail Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II 200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1MN Afterburner II Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S [empty high slot]
Small Auxiliary Thrusters I Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
-proxyyyy |
DARKSTAR POWNYOUALL
Black Rebel Rifter Club
18
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 15:53:00 -
[676] - Quote
m0cking bird wrote:The problem with the Firetail is that it's to versatile. However, there are alot of lame boat set-ups for this ship. Like the one below (which can school a standard nichebill). You can have very large shield or armour tank set-ups. While being able to do 140 - 150 damage per second (without heat). Some pilots choose to go with alot of electronic warfare. Some pilots even roll with artillery. I'm honestly surprised @ the amount of setups pilots come up with for the Firetail (there are alot!). Point is. Firetail is a nice looking ship. However, it is no Federation Navy Comet or Imperial Navy Slicer, but it can spank them...
Firetail Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II 200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1MN Afterburner II Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S [empty high slot]
Small Auxiliary Thrusters I Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
-proxyyyy thats a bad fit not just for the auxiliry thrusters that hurts your armor, but for the nano pump that boosts the rep time of a repper that you don't even have fitted
even if u did have a repper fitted an auxiliry PUMP would do more |
Plutonian
Intransigent
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 16:32:00 -
[677] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:Plutonian wrote:You've yet to answer the question. Are you proud of the way you act? Right you are! No, I wouldn't use proud to describe it. But sometimes situations need a bit of douche.
Thank you. |
Marian Devers
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 17:01:00 -
[678] - Quote
Just to be clear...
You want to buff AF. Then T1 Frigates and T1 Cruisers. Then the 3 Pirate Frigates (Where do you get 3? Worm, Succubus, and what else?).
Now, you must have forgotten, but since Navy Frigates are comparable to T1 Frigates (your own/CCP words), you'll have to buff them too. And I'm pretty sure Destroyers too, since they're balanced now, and hence won't be after the changes. --- As far as I can tell, all this so that AF have a better chance of being able to kill T1 cruisers (which they already can given good pilot skill (not skillpoints) and non-trap fits) during the brief time window between the AF buff and T1 Cruiser changes.
This is the explanation for the slot/bonus changes, correct?
And what was the mwd bonus reason? "people will fly more of them in 0.0"? |
Ninevite
Shiva White Noise.
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 17:28:00 -
[679] - Quote
Why are people complaining about AFs being potentially overpowered (they won't be) when no one made a peep about how the latest destroyer buffs totally made Arty Thrashers OP? Why am I still seeing a lot folks asking for even more Jaguar and Wolf love when they are already the best AFs? Please take your minmatar bullshit somewhere else and go stfu
Unless you fly AFs regularly, you won't know how useless they are now. They are too slow and die easily against anything besides another frigate...that is if the other frigate doesn't just run away. T1 destroyers can rip apart AFs now, making a Day 1 Newbie ship capable of killing even the best frigate pilots. Cruisers can simply neut frigs to death (oh except minmatar because of capless guns. But wait, minmatar need more buffs right? Righhhtt??). The only consistent targets I get in my Ishkur are other assault frigates, which are not that popular of course. AFs have absolutely no usage right now unless you happen to get lucky and stumble into a fight. They are basically on the same level of usefulness as t1 mining frigates, maybe even less as at least you can cyno in a t1 mining frigate without feeling guilty if you lose it
CCP please go through with some buffs on AFs. I think your idea to buff MWD (sucks ass because now we have two interceptor class ships (a balanced ab bonus or overheating bonuses would be much more useful and help diversify ship roles) , but I would take anything at this point to make AFs even a little more marginally useful. Everyone else complaining about AFs being OP, go lay face down in a bathtub |
CobaltSixty
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
45
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 17:30:00 -
[680] - Quote
Summary:
Retribution - needs 7.5% tracking per level. Lasers already have poor tracking and we don't need to set a new precedent now (first ship in the whole game with only 5% to tracking), that'll only get fixed later.
Vengeance - Does not need a DPS reduction. It brings up the back of the pack with ~151 DPS with faction rockets and is limited to within 10km. CPU pretty much prevents putting standard launchers on here and an overwhelming tank.
Harpy - Perfect.
Hawk - 7.5% to shield boost amount should stay. Again, it should not be the first ship with 5% instead of 7.5% to this amount. If it has to be different amount for balance's sake, it should be a different bonus altogether considering the Harpy's new tanking ability.
Enyo - Perfect, though it's about time they dropped the whole Enyo-is-a-Roden-ship thing. Red Incursus = cool, but increase to damage is so far opposite of Roden's philosophy. Tbh, I'm annoyed the Phobos doesn't use SOME missiles, but that's for another topic. Put your hands in the air for a Duvolle Enyo! \o/
Ishkur - Perfect.
Wolf - Still not sold on the 5th low vs a 3rd mid. I understand the whole idea is that it doesn't need a web so much with good damage projection, but why should the Wolf be WORSE than the Rifter in any way? The new Retribution has the same amount of mids as a Punisher, more highs and lows. Enyo has same amount of mids now as an Incursus, with more highs and lows. The Harpy has the same amount of mids as a Merlin, with more highs and lows. Wolf should have the same amount of mids as a Rifter, with more highs and lows. It's not rocket science.
Jaguar - It's losing a lot of ground with this patch. I think changing ONE of the damage bonii to a rate-of-fire would go a long way to helping it remain useful. RoF over damage would provide a net increase of 8% turret damage. Hardly gamebreaking. Assault Ships - Retribution Fix and Balancing Proposal for Upcoming 4th Bonus |
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Ninevite
Shiva White Noise.
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 17:36:00 -
[681] - Quote
Buffing the minmatar AFs any more would massively OP then over the other races when considering all of the advantages minmatar has already with their turrets. Jaguars and Wolves are single-handidly the most useful AFs on the market right now. Also, the retribution already has massive damage output and does not need any buffs that increase it's damage. It was designed to be a gank ship with no mids, and now it has an extra mid, eliminating it's previous disadvantage... |
m0cking bird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
90
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 17:45:00 -
[682] - Quote
DARKSTAR POWNYOUALL wrote:m0cking bird wrote:The problem with the Firetail is that it's to versatile. However, there are alot of lame boat set-ups for this ship. Like the one below (which can school a standard nichebill). You can have very large shield or armour tank set-ups. While being able to do 140 - 150 damage per second (without heat). Some pilots choose to go with alot of electronic warfare. Some pilots even roll with artillery. I'm honestly surprised @ the amount of setups pilots come up with for the Firetail (there are alot!). Point is. Firetail is a nice looking ship. However, it is no Federation Navy Comet or Imperial Navy Slicer, but it can spank them...
Firetail Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II 200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1MN Afterburner II Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S 200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S [empty high slot]
Small Auxiliary Thrusters I Small Anti-Kinetic Pump I Small Auxiliary Nano Pump I
-proxyyyy thats a bad fit not just for the auxiliry thrusters that hurts your armor, but also for the nano pump that boosts the rep time of a repper that you don't even have fitted even if u did have a repper fitted an auxiliry PUMP would do more
Awesome set-up, I know. Big UPS! |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
252
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 18:15:00 -
[683] - Quote
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:You must be completely oblivious to the world to think that the Firetail can even compare to the Hookbill, Comet, or Slicer.. Not at all, my experience with comes from fighting the damn things in my Coercer's, Slicer's, Punisher's and Nomen's .. what point of reference do you use .. and no EFT/SiSi shenanigans does not count. It is one of the two frigates that I actually hesitate engaging when in my brawling Slicer, what you call super-punisher I reckon, the other being Daredevil's.
FW breeds the best frigate/cruiser pilots in game .. I have been in FW since beginning (missed first week or so) .. dismiss my evaluation of frigates at your own peril (not that I expect you to care about a snooty FW monkey).
PS: Poke the Devs on the CSM board and get those damned blogs out already! |
Ninevite
Shiva White Noise.
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 18:18:00 -
[684] - Quote
Hirana Yoshida wrote:Prometheus Exenthal wrote:You must be completely oblivious to the world to think that the Firetail can even compare to the Hookbill, Comet, or Slicer.. Not at all, my experience with comes from fighting the damn things in my Coercer's, Slicer's, Punisher's and Nomen's .. what point of reference do you use .. and no EFT/SiSi shenanigans does not count. It is one of the two frigates that I actually hesitate engaging when in my brawling Slicer, what you call super-punisher I reckon, the other being Daredevil's. FW breeds the best frigate/cruiser pilots in game .. I have been in FW since beginning (missed first week or so) .. dismiss my evaluation of frigates at your own peril (not that I expect you to care about a snooty FW monkey). PS: Poke the Devs on the CSM board and get those damned blogs out already!
Holy ****, you mean you have formed your opinions based on your actual flight experience with the ships discussed? SOMEONE GET THIS MAN A BEER
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Zarnak Wulf
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
205
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 18:25:00 -
[685] - Quote
CobaltSixty wrote:Summary:
Hawk - 7.5% to shield boost amount should stay. Again, it should not be the first ship with 5% instead of 7.5% to this amount. If it has to be different amount for balance's sake, it should be a different bonus altogether considering the Harpy's new tanking ability.
The Hawk is terrifying in the right hands. The best pilots can hold a target at that 8-10 km sweetspot where most of the small turret damage starts to falloff and tank what's left over. The gang boosted hawks are really scary.
CobaltSixty wrote: Wolf - Still not sold on the 5th low vs a 3rd mid. I understand the whole idea is that it doesn't need a web so much with good damage projection, but why should the Wolf be WORSE than the Rifter in any way? The new Retribution has the same amount of mids as a Punisher, more highs and lows. Enyo has same amount of mids now as an Incursus, with more highs and lows. The Harpy has the same amount of mids as a Merlin, with more highs and lows. Wolf should have the same amount of mids as a Rifter, with more highs and lows. It's not rocket science.
Jaguar - It's losing a lot of ground with this patch. I think changing ONE of the damage bonii to a rate-of-fire would go a long way to helping it remain useful. RoF over damage would provide a net increase of 8% turret damage. Hardly gamebreaking.
A 5-3-4 Wolf would be flown with an MSE on it and everyone, even CCP, knows it. The Jaguar would have been even worse off had that happened. An extra low was the way to go.
The Jag definitely lost alot of shine. It's fitting is too gimped to have an impressive arty setup. Three turrets where most AF now have four too is meh. |
Ninevite
Shiva White Noise.
10
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 18:28:00 -
[686] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote: The Jag definitely lost alot of shine. It's fitting is too gimped to have an impressive arty setup. Three turrets where most AF now have four too is meh.
I really disagree with this. If the jag had 4xProject Turret, it would be really overpowered. The fact that it only has 3 turret hardpoints is what keeps it balanced against other ships...and plenty of other AFs have only 3 hardpoints as well
I feel that people have started to believe that if a Minmatar ship isn't automatically easy-mode, it's a vastly underpowered and unbalanced ship |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
574
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 18:34:00 -
[687] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:CobaltSixty wrote:Summary:
Hawk - 7.5% to shield boost amount should stay. Again, it should not be the first ship with 5% instead of 7.5% to this amount. If it has to be different amount for balance's sake, it should be a different bonus altogether considering the Harpy's new tanking ability.
The Hawk is terrifying in the right hands. The best pilots can hold a target at that 8-10 km sweetspot where most of the small turret damage starts to falloff and tank what's left over. The gang boosted hawks are really scary.
The funny thing is that you are focusing on what the hawk can do to frigates with 5 mids. What it does to everything else is oh so much more impressive. But at any rate, I <3 active tank AFs so I want my big shield bonus! Heh, heh, heh, heh.
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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m0cking bird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
90
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 18:46:00 -
[688] - Quote
I've been looking @ the Jaguar as a artillery platform for a very long time (1yr). Mainly because, of the Wolf. This set-up is quite literally the best I've been able to come with. It's sitting in Jita @ the moment and I will be flying it very soon. I mentioned this in a thread not to long ago. Some pilots have suggested I drop a small shield extender for a stasis webifier. That might be the right way to go. However, I plan on failing alot until I'm able to come to a serious conclusion on artillery-Jaguars.
With these proposed changes. The Jagabond, will be alot better.
Also, piracy and faction warfare produce some of the best frigate and cruiser pilots.*** Some of the best period (Truth)
150 damage per second. Around, 110-120 damager per second @ 20,000m or something (with republic fleet emp). Notice the Republic fleet modules for maximum RP. Anyway, tracking bonus and +1 low slot will open up more option. Damage control is more likely to be used. Instead of a Gyro.
[Jaguar, Cougar] Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Republic Fleet Small Shield Extender Republic Fleet Small Shield Extender 1MN MicroWarpdrive II Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S [empty high slot]
Small Projectile Burst Aerator I Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I
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Ninevite
Shiva White Noise.
10
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Posted - 2012.01.12 18:54:00 -
[689] - Quote
Yes, so let's take the fastest assault frigate, give it even more of a long-range advantage, and leave everyone else holding their limp dicks trying to figure out how to counter it. |
m0cking bird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
90
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Posted - 2012.01.12 18:58:00 -
[690] - Quote
Seriously though! This is how it would look. I've not tried this on SISI and I have not used a artillery-Jaguar on TQ. No Idea how it will preform. I can only use the Wolf or Thrasher as a reference. Also, no matter what. Using artillery will limit tank.
Jagabond
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S 280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP S [Empty High slot]
Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters Small F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Warp Disruptor II
Fourier Transform Tracking Program Gyrostabilizer II Pseudoelectron Containment Field I Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Small Ancillary Current Router I Small Projectile Collision Accelerator II
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