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Troubadour
Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.06.22 17:09:00 -
[1]
Hey Eve PPLs and CCP. In light of the changes to how Supercapitals work and Shrike loosing the Avatar, I have a few suggestions to make before we see the retreat of supercapitals to behind the front.
It's a bit ridiculous that a ship that takes about 3 months to train for and costs under 100mil can stop a 23-80bil isk ship dead in it's tracks. Now that interdictors are commonplace, and Supercapitals are slow and bulky, it's not hard for a MoM or Titan get get swarmed by them. While I agree that Supercaps should be killable, the ease at which it can be done now is disheartening. There isn't much a supercap can do about a bubble 15-19 KM away scrambling/jamming it.
I propose 2 things for Interdictors. A new bubble for dictors. Make it 10-15km and only jam jumpdrives. Make it skill-heavy, and perhaps make them large so the dictor can only carry a few. Maybe even require a special launcher so you cannot easily switch between jump drive and warp drive bubbles. Also, make the jump bubbles targetable. These probes should be big and bulky and able to take a pounding, but not un-targetable like regular warp disrupt probes.
As far as Titans. It's been painfully obvious to anyone that has seen them on the test server that in the heat of battle, they go down just as easy as any ship under fire from 10+ dreads. These things cost 80bil, beef up their tanking ability some CCP. Also, besides the DDDs, which is close to worthless now thanks to the 10 minute timer, they have pretty much no offensive capability. It would be nice to see them maybe with a few more turret/launcher slots and a massive dmg bonus to their respective XL weaponry. It would be cool to see a titan on the frontline taking a pounding while being able to dish it out on a dread/carrier or 2. Make Titans live up to their name and let's see some epic battles.
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Elaina Marie
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Posted - 2007.06.22 17:12:00 -
[2]
God no, please make it stop.
I have had enough of the nerf/boost ping pong that the forums are doing lately. "YOU" (the forums) wanted Titans nerfed and you got it. Deal with it already.
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Scraqp
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.06.22 17:15:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Scraqp on 22/06/2007 17:14:31 /signed
before patch they obviously were invincible and it seems post patch they are the exact opposite.
doesnt feel right.
actually prefered an invincible titan over 10000m smack posts from a certain entity
edit: i also agree with the guy above me tho
obviously i dont know what i want. why am i even reading this forum? *sigh*
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Vladimir Tinakin
Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2007.06.22 17:18:00 -
[4]
First off, you have to ID the role of a titan.
WTFPWNMOBILE? I don't think anyone wants this. The Doomsday--a weapon system that requires no lock, hits automatically on anyone within 250-300km, and can pop a ship not tanked for it--comes far too close to this. That it prevents the titan from jumping out for 10min and has to be fired from the field now balances it a bit.
Strategic/Logistics enhancement craft/mobile base? More accurate to the intent, I think. Ask BoB how their 2 billion isk/day plutonium route is working, or how well their fleet used the jump bridge to hop between fountain and querious in the early phases of the war.
The titan is fine as is. May need a little more nerfing, it *might* need a little boost. ATM, there isn't enough data to make that decision. Shrike was caught with his pants down, epeen out, whizzing on the electric fence and got burned...as ANYONE should be in that situation. Titans aren't immune to death anymore; lets see how far that goes.
I'm not even going to touch the "antiblob" farcical argument some people throw forth as a titan role. ----------------------------------------------- Adm Vladimir Tinakin CFO Hadean Drive Yards |
Bazan Kor
STK Scientific
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Posted - 2007.06.22 17:23:00 -
[5]
DD is for killing blobs, not groups of frigs. If it had been used against what it was designed for then the ambush would not have happened or at least would have been prepared for.
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Liang Nuren
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.06.22 17:26:00 -
[6]
TBH, I can't stand the smack that Goon is laying out either, but that doesn't mean that the Titan shouldn't have died. It should have - he was stupid, and he did it wrong. Making it so that you have to specifically fit your entire ship (to be useless in all other respects) so that you can have a *chance* of killing a supercap is simply silly.
But what you're looking at is this: this titan has what... 200-300 M isk in K/D ratio? And it finally got taken out by a whole fleet of dreads + support? Pray tell - how the **** are people supposed to kill a Titan if not *JUST LIKE THIS*?
Liang
Originally by: Dianabolic, of BOB, referring to MSN
the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge?
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Killwing
Minmatar Alcohol Fueled Brutality X-PACT
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Posted - 2007.06.22 17:29:00 -
[7]
Umm throw forum whiners at it? ________________________________ The public will more easly fall for a big lie,than for a small one
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Hannobaal
Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.22 17:40:00 -
[8]
It's called support fleets. A Titan on it's own or without a strong enough support fleet should be extremely vulnerable against a large enemy fleet. ------------------ "If you ever need anything please don't Hesitate to ask someone else first." |
Troubadour
Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.06.22 17:43:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Elaina Marie God no, please make it stop.
I have had enough of the nerf/boost ping pong that the forums are doing lately. "YOU" (the forums) wanted Titans nerfed and you got it. Deal with it already.
I wanted titans killable, especially since I've been on the receive end of a DDD a few times. But I didn't want them effectively removed from an offensive role. A 80bil isk ship should be able to put up a fight in more then one way. What warship at sea do you know of that doesn't have multiple offensive/defensive capabilities. The DDD is obviously the big boom, but the regular turrets basically do nothing to other caps. Give them a huge boost. A titan should be scary to capitals as well as conventional ships.
Also keep in mind the dictor bubbles keep regular caps from jumping out as well, so you wouldn't be fitting "JUST" for catching supercapitals. These special bubbles could hold down carriers and dreads as well.
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Liang Nuren
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.06.22 17:53:00 -
[10]
So, have you ever looked at the gang bonuses that a Titan gives? Or the Jump Bridge ability? Or the fact that its *still* got a Dooms Day Device that can WTFBBQ anything below the size of Battleship?
It is by no means "useless" or "removed from the wall of battle". It simply has limits now - and 180 vs 10 is definitely on the other side of those limits!
Liang
Originally by: Dianabolic, of BOB, referring to MSN
the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge?
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Vladimir Tinakin
Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2007.06.22 18:32:00 -
[11]
Agreed. The proper way to use titans is now to warp into a fleet, DD, then have your fleet warp in and mop up.
NOT warp in, dd, and proceed to kung-fu grip everything else with xl weapons. You need--and should have--a fleet with you. ----------------------------------------------- Adm Vladimir Tinakin CFO Hadean Drive Yards |
Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2007.06.22 18:44:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Liang Nuren TBH, I can't stand the smack that Goon is laying out either, but that doesn't mean that the Titan shouldn't have died. It should have - he was stupid, and he did it wrong. Making it so that you have to specifically fit your entire ship (to be useless in all other respects) so that you can have a *chance* of killing a supercap is simply silly.
But what you're looking at is this: this titan has what... 200-300 M isk in K/D ratio? And it finally got taken out by a whole fleet of dreads + support? Pray tell - how the **** are people supposed to kill a Titan if not *JUST LIKE THIS*?
Liang
Everyone should do this BoB way. Aggro and wait for him to log off/crash.
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Rafein
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Posted - 2007.06.22 18:48:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Troubadour Hey Eve PPLs and CCP. In light of the changes to how Supercapitals work and Shrike loosing the Avatar, I have a few suggestions to make before we see the retreat of supercapitals to behind the front.
It's a bit ridiculous that a ship that takes about 3 months to train for and costs under 100mil can stop a 23-80bil isk ship dead in it's tracks. Now that interdictors are commonplace, and Supercapitals are slow and bulky, it's not hard for a MoM or Titan get get swarmed by them. While I agree that Supercaps should be killable, the ease at which it can be done now is disheartening. There isn't much a supercap can do about a bubble 15-19 KM away scrambling/jamming it.
I propose 2 things for Interdictors. A new bubble for dictors. Make it 10-15km and only jam jumpdrives. Make it skill-heavy, and perhaps make them large so the dictor can only carry a few. Maybe even require a special launcher so you cannot easily switch between jump drive and warp drive bubbles. Also, make the jump bubbles targetable. These probes should be big and bulky and able to take a pounding, but not un-targetable like regular warp disrupt probes.
As far as Titans. It's been painfully obvious to anyone that has seen them on the test server that in the heat of battle, they go down just as easy as any ship under fire from 10+ dreads. These things cost 80bil, beef up their tanking ability some CCP. Also, besides the DDDs, which is close to worthless now thanks to the 10 minute timer, they have pretty much no offensive capability. It would be nice to see them maybe with a few more turret/launcher slots and a massive dmg bonus to their respective XL weaponry. It would be cool to see a titan on the frontline taking a pounding while being able to dish it out on a dread/carrier or 2. Make Titans live up to their name and let's see some epic battles.
Lotts interesting ideas, but wouldn;t it just be easier to have a support fleet? I mean, Dictor bubbles are not too hard to pop with Smartbombs. Carrier in Triage healing the Supercap would also help.
As for buffing Supercaps, no, I think they are fine. It's kinda the BS vs. Intercepter thing all again. Size does not win battles.
Remember what Titans's are designed to be, a Fleet ship, more of a Mobile station. Maybe giving them Triage mode, but that's about it.
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JenDen
Caldari LFS Corp
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Posted - 2007.06.22 18:51:00 -
[14]
Edited by: JenDen on 22/06/2007 18:50:30 Impressively how 1 titan death is causing so much of a panic around titan's role. Titans are still posessing much greater devastating power than anything else in game, they still need nefring, but no boosting by all means! As far as price excuses for its overpower - fractional equipment costs hundreds times more than normal one, and only gives pretty small bonus. So whats the deal with titan being killable by 10+ dreads? It would be absolutely silly if titan wasn't killable, nobody needs an invincible pwn-mobile. Kinda funny to see people not realising that :-/
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OwnedBy Me
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Posted - 2007.06.22 18:56:00 -
[15]
The Titan Guide "TM".
1: Have cov ops right inside the grid (300-400 of the gate) 2: Have a fleet of carriers and anti support ready 3: Warp to cov ops 4: Align 5: Use dd to kill all support and bubbles 6: Warp out to where you are aligned 7: Wait one hour 8: Start from nr 1 again.
If the titans does get locked down (highly unlikely) jump in the carriers and remote rep him until he can jump out.
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