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ghosttr
Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.26 14:11:00 -
[1]
Edited by: ghosttr on 26/06/2007 14:11:08 In eve critical hits are done randomly. And are not dependent on any other factors other than if you hit the target. In other word if you hit the target you have a certain % change of getting a critical hit, and no other factors effect this.
I think critical hits should be changed so that they are dependent on range/tracking. You should get more critical hits & point blank range than you do when shooting targets farther away, and should should get more for accuracy if your target is not moving (has no transversal) you should get more critical hits, and if you are hitting in your optimal you should get more critical hits than you would hitting in your falloff.
This would benefit Amarr the most because they have the largest optimal range, as well as decent tracking on all of their turrets (especially pulse nowRazz). And although the base amount of damage would be lower, overall damage would be higher because the lasers would have a higher chance of critical hit.
Critical hits boost Amarr damage |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.06.26 14:16:00 -
[2]
Originally by: ghosttr I think critical hits should be changed so that they are dependent on range/tracking. You should get more critical hits & point blank range than you do when shooting targets farther away, and should should get more for accuracy if your target is not moving (has no transversal) you should get more critical hits, and if you are hitting in your optimal you should get more critical hits than you would hitting in your falloff.
So basically blasterthrons with webs will be even more powerful.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Lilian Long
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Posted - 2007.06.26 14:19:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Lilian Long on 26/06/2007 14:17:49 @OP Sure about that ? If your target has high transversal speed, is out of opti-range or has a too small sig-radius, you get a lot more lightly hits and scratches and less well-aimed and excellent hits. I'd have assumed that wrecking hits are no different there, just one level higher than excellent hits and dealing double-damage.
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Martin Mckenna
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.06.26 14:22:00 -
[4]
Critical hits do depend on range are tracking. Take the tracking tutorial and you will see. If your bang on your optimal you will score more. If your eating into your fall off you wont.
Its about to begin.... |
James Duar
Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.06.26 14:23:00 -
[5]
There has been some speculation that at long range the proportion of wrecking shots goes up somewhat. To be fair, it does seem like hitting a target way out of range would require it to be a pretty spectacular shot.
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.26 14:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dark Shikari So basically blasterthrons with webs will be even more powerful.
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ghosttr
Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.26 14:27:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Lilian Long Edited by: Lilian Long on 26/06/2007 14:17:49 @OP Sure about that ? If your target has high transversal speed, is out of opti-range or has a too small sig-radius, you get a lot more lightly hits and scratches and less well-aimed and excellent hits. I'd have assumed that wrecking hits are no different there, just one level higher than excellent hits and dealing double-damage.
Well sig radius shouldn't come into play more than it already does, it already effects if you hit the target, and the damage to the target. While tracking & range only effect the chance of hitting, and dont effect the damage.
Also, you would always have a base change of getting a critical hit. And better tracking/optimal range would only increase those changes.
This would help out Amarr alot because 90% of the range of lasers is optimal, and lasers already have deacent tracking (especially after the boost to pulse lasers)
Critical hits boost Amarr damage |
ghosttr
Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.26 14:33:00 -
[8]
Edited by: ghosttr on 26/06/2007 14:31:28
Originally by: Martin Mckenna Critical hits do depend on range are tracking. Take the tracking tutorial and you will see. If your bang on your optimal you will score more. If your eating into your fall off you wont.
Even when shooting stationary targets at point-blank range the damage seems to be random. Nothing seems to really effect the critical hit all that much, im saying that it should play a much larger role.
Critical hits boost Amarr damage |
Rafein
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Posted - 2007.06.26 14:35:00 -
[9]
Originally by: James Duar There has been some speculation that at long range the proportion of wrecking shots goes up somewhat. To be fair, it does seem like hitting a target way out of range would require it to be a pretty spectacular shot.
I think that has more to do with the low Transversal at long range. Low transversal means guns track better. Which would make sense in adding to wrecking chance.
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Bluestealth
Alcatraz Inc. Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.06.26 14:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: James Duar There has been some speculation that at long range the proportion of wrecking shots goes up somewhat. To be fair, it does seem like hitting a target way out of range would require it to be a pretty spectacular shot.
I have had one spectacular shot in eve.... hit a crow at 150km off orbiting me with 1400mm.... loaded with EMP L :P *pop*
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Winterblink
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.06.26 14:55:00 -
[11]
Originally by: ghosttr Even when shooting stationary targets at point-blank range the damage seems to be random. Nothing seems to really effect the critical hit all that much, im saying that it should play a much larger role.
Damaging mounted modules went away for the longest time, until the introduction of heat. Maybe wrecking hits on unshielded ships could have a chance to bust up equipment. Note, I'm not suggesting making them targetable. Granted this stems from my recently watching Star Wars Episode III recently (I was bored), and loving that bit at the start where the Imperial and Trade Federation cruisers exchange broadsides, knocking out their guns.
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ghosttr
Amarr ARK-CORP FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.06.26 15:11:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: ghosttr Even when shooting stationary targets at point-blank range the damage seems to be random. Nothing seems to really effect the critical hit all that much, im saying that it should play a much larger role.
Damaging mounted modules went away for the longest time, until the introduction of heat. Maybe wrecking hits on unshielded ships could have a chance to bust up equipment. Note, I'm not suggesting making them targetable. Granted this stems from my recently watching Star Wars Episode III recently (I was bored), and loving that bit at the start where the Imperial and Trade Federation cruisers exchange broadsides, knocking out their guns.
??? Stay on topic
Critical hits boost Amarr damage |
Hellspawn01
Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.06.26 15:14:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Bluestealth I have had one spectacular shot in eve.... hit a crow at 150km off orbiting me with 1400mm.... loaded with EMP L :P *pop*
This is so wrong.
Ship lovers click here |
Sharupak
Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun The Kano Organisation
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Posted - 2007.06.26 15:55:00 -
[14]
I think the criticals do depend on that stuff. I get alot more wreckings in my optimal range. I also know that if my ship is stationary, the enemy does more damage to me. It is people like the OPer which cause MMO games to suck because they have that "the grass is greener on the other side" syndrome so developers say to hell with it, make all races, classes, ships weap |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2007.06.26 15:58:00 -
[15]
Originally by: ghosttr Edited by: ghosttr on 26/06/2007 14:11:08 In eve critical hits are done randomly. And are not dependent on any other factors other than if you hit the target. In other word if you hit the target you have a certain % change of getting a critical hit, and no other factors effect this.
I think critical hits should be changed so that they are dependent on range/tracking. You should get more critical hits & point blank range than you do when shooting targets farther away, and should should get more for accuracy if your target is not moving (has no transversal) you should get more critical hits, and if you are hitting in your optimal you should get more critical hits than you would hitting in your falloff.
This would benefit Amarr the most because they have the largest optimal range, as well as decent tracking on all of their turrets (especially pulse nowRazz). And although the base amount of damage would be lower, overall damage would be higher because the lasers would have a higher chance of critical hit.
I've spent quite a while researching this; what I've found is that min(1%,chance to hit) of all shots fired turn out to be wrecking hits. The more general hit quality formula looks like this:
dps with hit quality = base dps * [min(1%,chance to hit)*3 + max(0,chance to hit - 1%)*(0.99 + chance to hit)/2]
So in fact, people already do worse dps at lower chances to hit than the hit chance formula alone would suggest; i.e. at lower chances to hit, your shots tend to do less damage each even when they hit. You only get 'excellent' hits, for instance, when you have quite a high chance to hit. For all the gory details, see this thread.
Skewing this 'accuracy' element of the game in favour of a particular class of weapons/ships would be quite interesting, but under the existing system the devs can ultimately achieve the same thing (for non-wrecking hits) with a tracking/range/falloff bonus just by tweaking a single number.
Changing wrecking hits might be worthwhile but it would devalue them. Besides, I thought people weren't so keen on chance-based gameplay?
------ Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant tanking |
Arachidamia
Matari People's Front
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Posted - 2007.06.26 16:34:00 -
[16]
Sounds like a rather complicated "fix" for one race, that will affect the other races too. Probably breaking something else along the way.
I think the easiest way is to simply tweak the crystals to introduce small amounts of kin/exp damage, or at least allow therm to become the primary damage type with certain crystals. Then it just leaves cap problems.. which I think lie more in amarr suffering more than anyone at the hands of uber nos.
Many of the current weaknesses of Amarr are *supposed* to be weaknesses though. While lasers clearly need some love, Amarr are supposed to be inflexible and slow. The problem is right now amarr have their weaknesses (slow speed and inflexibility), but they also lack their apparent strengths (solid armour tank and sheer power). Both these strengths wont become real until lasers get some love.
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