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Are the pulse lasers as intended by CCP?

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p0pup7arge7 Shooting Gallery	Posted - 2007.06.27 01:03:00 - [1] Edited by: p0pup7arge7 on 27/06/2007 01:02:45 This is NOT a whine about cap use or damage types. I pose the question of whether CCP has the Large and Med pulse lasers balanced as they intended. There are only 2 tiers of weapon size for Med and large pulse lasers. The Med size has a low tier and a high tier weapon. There are some Amarr ships that could benefit from a middle tier, like the Sac or even the Blood faction cruiser. The large pulses seem to be missing a low tier; not detrimental but some would welcome the flexibility of having the easy fit of a low tier. Is this an intentional omission on CCP's part, is it the weirdness of a dual medium pulse laser in the same class as a focused medium pulse. Could this be an exercise in variety that makes this a great game. Please share your thoughts on why these modules do not exist and if the community would benefit from their addition or be better off with them as they are.
Chavu Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.06.27 01:46:00 - [2] Pulse lasers = 2 tiers Beam lasers = 3 tiers Autocanons = 3 tiers Artillery = 2 tiers Sounds fair to me, although those tachyons sure are hot. Actually Gallente get 3 tiers of blasters and 3 tiers of railguns but god forbid you say gallente are overpowered, oh no don't say that. Should really give us amarr and minmatar another tier on our guns to even it out. I'll take a 3000mm artillery cannon, thanks.
bookwoorm	Posted - 2007.06.27 02:34:00 - [3] Edited by: bookwoorm on 27/06/2007 02:34:22 nm
p0pup7arge7 Shooting Gallery	Posted - 2007.06.27 02:36:00 - [4] Originally by: Chavu Pulse lasers = 2 tiers Beam lasers = 3 tiers Autocanons = 3 tiers Artillery = 2 tiers Sounds fair to me, although those tachyons sure are hot. Actually Gallente get 3 tiers of blasters and 3 tiers of railguns but god forbid you say gallente are overpowered, oh no don't say that. Should really give us amarr and minmatar another tier on our guns to even it out. I'll take a 3000mm artillery cannon, thanks. I think the illustrates the variety in weapons systems. however is there a method to choosing what goes in or out? For example the pulse lasers are harder to fit than their hybrid counterparts while trading damage for range. but not having the flexibility of a middle tier if fittings are tight with heavys. And the focused medium pulses just have poor DPS. Is this intentinal or just chance. Or is their no room for a medium sized medium pulse? I'm not trying to be confusing but the naming convention for lasers can get a bit silly.
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.06.27 03:20:00 - [5] Pulse lasers seem fine to me. Medium pulse lasers are very strong. They outdamage and VASTLY outrange medium autocannons, and practically outdamage and outrange medium neutrons. Med neutrons on paper have a higher DPS but good luck maintaining that 2km optimal that Void M gives you. They use the most cap, but that's acceptable because they have the best damage and range. Large pulse lasers are underpowered, but not horrible. They still massively outrange both neutrons and autocannons, and outdamage autocannons. They're underpowered because they use a ****load of cap but aren't the best at everything, (outdamaged by neutrons) but they're not awful. Beam lasers are the weapons that are total crap. Ridiculous fitting requirements, low range, high cap use, and low damage. Only small beams are even close to useful.
Alec16	Posted - 2007.06.27 06:17:00 - [6] I have given up on tachyons on anything but fleet. Draining over 80 cap/s with maxed skills on an abbadon is rediculous. That's way more than an X-large shield booster tank.
Shereza	Posted - 2007.06.29 07:04:00 - [7] Edited by: Shereza on 29/06/2007 07:08:01 I don't see how pulse lasers can have longer range than autocannons. 800mm repeating artillery has a 4km optimal with 16km falloff and mega pulse lasers have a 20km optimal and 8km falloff. 4km + 2x16km = 36km = 20km + 2x8km As for cap use, not sure how 80 cap per second for pulse lasers is "way" more than the cap cost for T1 and T2 XL boosters. 400 cap every 5 seconds is 80 cap/second. Pith boosters are worse with a 100 cap/second base. While with level 5 shield compensation you'd get the cost reduced to 72 and 90 respectively I don't see 72 being significantly less than 80.
Yana Kaar	Posted - 2007.06.29 07:27:00 - [8] Edited by: Yana Kaar on 29/06/2007 07:27:19 Originally by: Shereza Edited by: Shereza on 29/06/2007 07:08:01 I don't see how pulse lasers can have longer range than autocannons. 800mm repeating artillery has a 4km optimal with 16km falloff and mega pulse lasers have a 20km optimal and 8km falloff. 4km + 2x16km = 36km = 20km + 2x8km congrats, you pointed out that if one hits nothing, the other doesnt either... but actually thats nothing really about range... at 20km: 800mm does only hit with 50%, where megas still hit with 100%. have megas hit twice the time of 800mm's - that IS outranging! at 28km: Megas only hit with 50%... 800mm's do only hit with 20%! and thats more than twice! so, realize how "falloff" actually works (and what it is) please ;)
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.06.29 08:30:00 - [9] Imo whole pulse family needs a bit of fitting reduction. And stuff about ACs & dps & range, look at sleipnir and absolution and come back. Or zealot/vaga. -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
Trefnis Minmatar Citadel of dark arts	Posted - 2007.06.29 08:57:00 - [10] And what about tempest - arma muninn - zealot not all matari ships get falloff bonus (just the 'kewl' ones)

Yana Kaar	Posted - 2007.06.29 08:58:00 - [11] Edited by: Yana Kaar on 29/06/2007 09:02:26 Originally by: LUKEC Imo whole pulse family needs a bit of fitting reduction. And stuff about ACs & dps & range, look at sleipnir and absolution and come back. Or zealot/vaga. what do ship-boni have to do with turret-attributes? look at the damnation, it has an optimal-bonus (5%). look at the sacrilege, it has an optimal-bonus (10%). so what? minmatar mostly need to fight in falloff and that DECREASES THEIR DPS-POTENTIAL. if they want to have 100% of their dps, they need to stay in optimal, which is NOT their bonus! shall i tell you why matari-ships get a falloff bonus? they mostly are speed ships (the ships with range-boni are mostly shield tanked ships, leaving lows open for speedmods). they need the falloff to stay outside webrange. amarr are nearly as slow as caldari ( ;) ), they most dont care about webs (in 1vs1's). another thing is the "nerf" of these matar-ships with artys. there are no mods that increase falloff -like tracking enhancer/computer for optimal range. long story short: projectile guns have a huge falloff with ships complementing that, laser turrets have a big optimal with ships complementing that. but that still doesnt change the fact that you lose damage in your falloff... and you can NOT compensate that with tracking! edit: @trefnis: yes, the only used matar ship with optimal bonus is the Muninn, complementing its sniperrole. and BS is hard to count in regarding the fact that there is only ONE turret-bs ingame with range-bonus (caldari rokh).
Shereza	Posted - 2007.06.29 10:01:00 - [12] I'm quite well aware of what fallof is and how it works, however when someone says "longer range" to me that means longer range to 0% chance of hitting a stationary target from a stationary ship. Not longer optimal range or longer effective range, or anything else that is less than maximum range to 0% chance hit. Kinda the whole point really. They both have the exact same range, though pulse lasers have a much better effective/optimal range.
Ulii	Posted - 2007.06.29 10:39:00 - [13] Originally by: Shereza I'm quite well aware of what fallof is and how it works, however when someone says "longer range" to me that means longer range to 0% chance of hitting a stationary target from a stationary ship. Not longer optimal range or longer effective range, or anything else that is less than maximum range to 0% chance hit. Kinda the whole point really. They both have the exact same range, though pulse lasers have a much better effective/optimal range. you never get a 0% hit chanse. even at max lock range with ac's you have a small (REALLY small) chanse of hitting your target. by your definition, the range of a gun is determined by the ships lock range. ofcause people mean effective or optimal range (optimal range on ac's is not optimal on the gun. more like optimal + 0,25(or 0,5)*falloff)
Xoduse Gallente Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.06.29 19:26:00 - [14] Originally by: p0pup7arge7 Edited by: p0pup7arge7 on 27/06/2007 01:02:45 Is this an intentional omission on CCP's part, is it the weirdness of a dual medium pulse laser in the same class as a focused medium pulse. Could this be an exercise in variety that makes this a great game. P This is what really throws me for a loop. When the DEVs decided a "Medium Pulse Laser" is a small turret meant for frigs and a "Heavy Pulse Laser" is a medium turret meant for cruisers...they had to be drinking. ---------------------
Msobe	Posted - 2007.06.30 01:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Xoduse Originally by: p0pup7arge7 Edited by: p0pup7arge7 on 27/06/2007 01:02:45 Is this an intentional omission on CCP's part, is it the weirdness of a dual medium pulse laser in the same class as a focused medium pulse. Could this be an exercise in variety that makes this a great game. P This is what really throws me for a loop. When the DEVs decided a "Medium Pulse Laser" is a small turret meant for frigs and a "Heavy Pulse Laser" is a medium turret meant for cruisers...they had to be drinking. If you lived in Iceland, you'd probably drink, too.
p0pup7arge7 Shooting Gallery	Posted - 2007.07.04 14:25:00 - [16] Wow, this thing has gotten all over the place. So; should ccp add have three tiers of medium sized pulses.
Zyrla Bladestorm Minmatar Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.07.04 16:19:00 - [17] I think all the tiers were a low and a high untill the amarr bs (and only the bs) got grid buffs three or four patches in a row in that first year, which has also been one of the root causes of the top beam lasers being nigh impossible to fit on the others till recently. I'm all for pulse lasers, artillery and maybe missile launchers getting new tiers to fill out player choice. . ----- Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
p0pup7arge7 Shooting Gallery	Posted - 2007.07.06 03:23:00 - [18] well thats one vote.


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