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Naj Panora
Homless Nomads
0
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Posted - 2012.01.06 15:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
T2 Orca:
Unless noted all stats are the same as the Orca
Halve the Maintenance Bay Cut the Corporate Hangar Bay by 25% Get rid of the Cargo Hold Increase the Ore Hold to the size of the Cargo Hold Make all skills/Mods/Rigs that modify cargo hold capacity increase the capacity of the Ore hold. Make the Ore Hold able to hold minerals as well (this would be great on the Orca too). Allow the fitting of an Industrial Core (90-99% reduction in CPU and Power Grid needed to fit a Industrial Core) Add one high slot
Increase time to align. Increase top sub warp speed while decreasing acceleration (increase time to get into warp).
Goal of this ship is to provide high sec corps with a dedicated mining platform for grav sites and large belt ops.
Other Mining Things Most of these thoughts are to better define miners v. industrialist.
Capital Mining ships: Would like to see some bigger ships for Null Sec Mining (while being first on this part of the list this is the least important to me personally.) Ore specific ships: Make mining certain ore more efficient. Ore specific mining lasers: ^ Ore specific mining upgrades: ^^ Rigs for mining ships
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Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
211
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 15:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
We do not need a rorqual for high sec.
If your so hard pressed to make a profit....move to WHS or 0.0.
Not supporting. |
Tallian Saotome
Casa Del Wombat
322
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 15:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
you know, I could swear I've put minerals in my ore holds....
ofc, if I'm in a mining op, I'm far from sober, so I could be wrong :-D o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist.. KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/` |
Velicitia
Open Designs
437
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 18:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:We do not need a rorqual for high sec.
Not supporting.
This.
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Naj Panora
Homless Nomads
1
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Posted - 2012.01.06 20:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:We do not need a rorqual for high sec.
If your so hard pressed to make a profit....move to WHS or 0.0.
Not supporting.
Some of us don't have the time to dedicate to null sec or W-space. |
Naj Panora
Homless Nomads
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 20:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:you know, I could swear I've put minerals in my ore holds....
ofc, if I'm in a mining op, I'm far from sober, so I could be wrong :-D
You must have been way gone. |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
212
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 20:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Naj Panora wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:We do not need a rorqual for high sec.
If your so hard pressed to make a profit....move to WHS or 0.0.
Not supporting. Some of us don't have the time to dedicate to null sec or W-space.
If you got time to write this tripe of a proposal and not bother to do your homework on mechancis and balance of those mechancis....and infer use of equipment on the scale your indicateing...you got time to go to WHS/0.0 and mine.
I think you have alot to learn before you make such a statement.
I suggest you MAKE the time to go to WHS and 0.0 and then come back here and evalaute your proposal as such.
You quite obviuosly have no concept of living in 0.0/WHS when it comes to industry.
And buffing High Sec with a rorqual like ship is a threatening dare to crash the economy as it is.
You have orca's...you have hulks...and you have PI....and yet you want bigger better orca's...maybe you should take a step back and think about the ramifications of your statement.
I'm quite sure we would love a non-capitial rorqual out here....we'd literally make a killing.
WHS Would be out of control when it comes to profitiblity with industrial core presense...specially if the ship is as big (or should I say "Small") as an orca in mass and size.
But you didn't think about that did you? |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
904
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 20:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:We do not need a rorqual for high sec.
If your so hard pressed to make a profit....move to WHS or 0.0.
Not supporting.
THIS ^
If we actually need another industrial ship of any kind it should be a dedicated gas harvester. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
212
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 20:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:We do not need a rorqual for high sec.
If your so hard pressed to make a profit....move to WHS or 0.0.
Not supporting. THIS ^ If we actually need another industrial ship of any kind it should be a dedicated gas harvester.
Hate to give him +1 but he's absoltuely right...this is the only industrial ship I'd support adding. If not a Gas Strip Miner. |
Naj Panora
Homless Nomads
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 20:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
If we actually need another industrial ship of any kind it should be a dedicated gas harvester.
Good idea added to the other mining stuff |
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Naj Panora
Homless Nomads
1
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Posted - 2012.01.06 21:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Naj Panora wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:We do not need a rorqual for high sec.
If your so hard pressed to make a profit....move to WHS or 0.0.
Not supporting. Some of us don't have the time to dedicate to null sec or W-space. If you got time to write this tripe of a proposal and not bother to do your homework on mechancis and balance of those mechancis....and infer use of equipment on the scale your indicateing...you got time to go to WHS/0.0 and mine. I think you have alot to learn before you make such a statement. I suggest you MAKE the time to go to WHS and 0.0 and then come back here and evalaute your proposal as such. You quite obviuosly have no concept of living in 0.0/WHS when it comes to industry. And buffing High Sec with a rorqual like ship is a threatening dare to crash the economy as it is. You have orca's...you have hulks...and you have PI....and yet you want bigger better orca's...maybe you should take a step back and think about the ramifications of your statement. I'm quite sure we would love a non-capitial rorqual out here....we'd literally make a killing. WHS Would be out of control when it comes to profitiblity with industrial core presense...specially if the ship is as big (or should I say "Small") as an orca in mass and size. But you didn't think about that did you? Check my employment history. You should find I'm ex-F-CON so I do have an idea on what living in null sec is like. I have also lived in W-space and it would be a great support ship for C1-3 WH where Rorqs can't pass in and out of. Also I will concede the point on mass, it may have to be bumped up. Instead of straight up knocking the idea why not contribute to refining it. |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
215
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 21:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Naj Panora wrote:Check my employment history. You should find I'm ex-F-CON so I do have an idea on what living in null sec is like. I have also lived in W-space and it would be a great support ship for C1-3 WH where Rorqs can't pass in and out of. Also I will concede the point on mass, it may have to be bumped up. Instead of straight up knocking the idea why not contribute to refining it.
Just because you where in the alliance I'm in doesn't indicate anything... no one who are even above my expertise would ever suggest the ship you outlined.
That you can count on.
You assume so because "tis so awesome"
Awesome is not the point here...its BALANCE....
We have prefectly good mining equipment at our disposal...we do not need to buff it.
I stand by my words....there are no improvements needed because the Orca is a mighty fnie ship.
And we CAN use a Rorqual out here.
You can even build one in WHS.
High Sec however does not need this ship..it will break ecnomy if not severely harm it,.
It's bad enough with the bots and crap...don't add to it. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
440
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 21:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
Naj Panora wrote: Check my employment history. You should find I'm ex-F-CON so I do have an idea on what living in null sec is like. I have also lived in W-space and it would be a great support ship for C1-3 WH where Rorqs can't pass in and out of. Also I will concede the point on mass, it may have to be bumped up. Instead of straight up knocking the idea why not contribute to refining it.
C1 - C3 has grav sites, and POS have refineries, and you can buy a BPC pack for a rorqual for about 500m (give or take, I haven't bothered looking in a year or so).
sure, you're going to burn a lot of time and minerals in doing this ... but if you want a rorq in w-space, then there's nothing stopping you from getting it. And, putting a rorq inside gets you even more bonuses than an Orca would anyway.
As it stands, you can drag in nearly 2900 m3/minute with a maxxed hulk and orca pilot. Hisec doesn't need any more buffs.
If you want a rorq without the time commitments of null or w-space ... there's always lowsec. |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
215
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 21:19:00 -
[14] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Naj Panora wrote: Check my employment history. You should find I'm ex-F-CON so I do have an idea on what living in null sec is like. I have also lived in W-space and it would be a great support ship for C1-3 WH where Rorqs can't pass in and out of. Also I will concede the point on mass, it may have to be bumped up. Instead of straight up knocking the idea why not contribute to refining it.
C1 - C3 has grav sites, and POS have refineries, and you can buy a BPC pack for a rorqual for about 500m (give or take, I haven't bothered looking in a year or so). sure, you're going to burn a lot of time and minerals in doing this ... but if you want a rorq in w-space, then there's nothing stopping you from getting it. And, putting a rorq inside gets you even more bonuses than an Orca would anyway. As it stands, you can drag in nearly 2900 m3/minute with a maxxed hulk and orca pilot. Hisec doesn't need any more buffs. If you want a rorq without the time commitments of null or w-space ... there's always lowsec.
This.
Ore Compression in WHS is a mighty fine solution to the painful torture sessions of refineries at POS's.
Rorqual becomes a immoveable structure in WHS (c1 - c3)...but then again if your that serious....well the rest is obvious. |
Nevryn Takis
University of Caille Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 21:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Quote:T2 Orca:
Unless noted all stats are the same as the Orca
Halve the Maintenance Bay Cut the Corporate Hangar Bay by 25% Get rid of the Cargo Hold Increase the Ore Hold to the size of the Cargo Hold Make all skills/Mods/Rigs that modify cargo hold capacity increase the capacity of the Ore hold. Make the Ore Hold able to hold minerals as well (this would be great on the Orca too). Allow the fitting of an Industrial Core (90-99% reduction in CPU and Power Grid needed to fit a Industrial Core) Add one high slot
Increase time to align. Increase top sub warp speed while decreasing acceleration (increase time to get into warp).
I don't support this either .. how about
Increase the maintenance bay by 25% remove the corp hanger entirely reduce the cargo hold by 50% increase the ore hold by 50% and make the size increase with skill level Add an extra high slot Increase its agility and acceleration increase its shield and armour resists by 15%
basically make a T2 equivalent which mirrors the T1::T2 hauler/blockade runner
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Velicitia
Open Designs
440
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 21:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote: Ore Compression in WHS is a mighty fine solution to the painful torture sessions of refineries at POS's.
yeah, but if you're refining the ore so you can build the rorq, then you're not really compressing much for a while... BUT once you can compress the ore, it'll pay for itself pretty quick, since you can get *more* ore out to the world in your haulers ... |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
215
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 21:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Drake Draconis wrote: Ore Compression in WHS is a mighty fine solution to the painful torture sessions of refineries at POS's.
yeah, but if you're refining the ore so you can build the rorq, then you're not really compressing much for a while... BUT once you can compress the ore, it'll pay for itself pretty quick, since you can get *more* ore out to the world in your haulers ...
Correct/Confirmed/BTDT |
Velicitia
Open Designs
440
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 21:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Velicitia wrote:Drake Draconis wrote: Ore Compression in WHS is a mighty fine solution to the painful torture sessions of refineries at POS's.
yeah, but if you're refining the ore so you can build the rorq, then you're not really compressing much for a while... BUT once you can compress the ore, it'll pay for itself pretty quick, since you can get *more* ore out to the world in your haulers ... Correct/Confirmed/BTDT
You get the limited-edition NEX T-shirt too? |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
215
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 21:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nevryn Takis wrote:Quote:T2 Orca:
Unless noted all stats are the same as the Orca
Halve the Maintenance Bay Cut the Corporate Hangar Bay by 25% Get rid of the Cargo Hold Increase the Ore Hold to the size of the Cargo Hold Make all skills/Mods/Rigs that modify cargo hold capacity increase the capacity of the Ore hold. Make the Ore Hold able to hold minerals as well (this would be great on the Orca too). Allow the fitting of an Industrial Core (90-99% reduction in CPU and Power Grid needed to fit a Industrial Core) Add one high slot
Increase time to align. Increase top sub warp speed while decreasing acceleration (increase time to get into warp).
I don't support this either .. how about Increase the maintenance bay by 25% remove the corp hanger entirely reduce the cargo hold by 50% increase the ore hold by 50% and make the size increase with skill level Add an extra high slot Increase its agility and acceleration increase its shield and armour resists by 15% basically make a T2 equivalent which mirrors the T1::T2 hauler/blockade runner
This...I COULD...possibly get behind...maybe a +1 to warp stab and make it a low sec orca or something. Nothing extravigant.
But then one would argue a Rorqual fits that bill in lowsec.
And Orca is hard enough to kill in High Sec...I'm hard pressed to make any changes on it honestly.
Perhaps a Rig to modify cargo space alottments or something..but that doesn't make sense either because your still getting the same total cargo space overall.
And nuking the corp hanger isn't going to work...its the perefct anti-gank tool.
Anything in a cargo bay outside the main cargo bay...is toast if the ship does get ganked. Yes I understand your making ore hold bigger...but the corp hanger helps when your delaing with large operations for various corporations who pay out differently. |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
215
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 21:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:Velicitia wrote:Drake Draconis wrote: Ore Compression in WHS is a mighty fine solution to the painful torture sessions of refineries at POS's.
yeah, but if you're refining the ore so you can build the rorq, then you're not really compressing much for a while... BUT once you can compress the ore, it'll pay for itself pretty quick, since you can get *more* ore out to the world in your haulers ... Correct/Confirmed/BTDT You get the limited-edition NEX T-shirt too?
Nope..that got burned in a fire when someone got a lucky space bomb shot on my cov ops frigate....had to get a change of shorts too..barely survived. |
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Velicitia
Open Designs
441
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 21:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
Pants? Where we're going, we don't need pants.
Back on topic... at this juncture, there's no need for a ~6 billion ISK ship that performs just ever so slightly better than a 500m ISK ship (Yeah, I know I'm high for the orca. I just pulled the 6b from what I remember of the JFs), and about 33% WORSE than a T1 capital that can do other fun stuff (i.e. compression, jumpclones, etc).
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Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
215
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 21:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Pants? Where we're going, we don't need pants. Back on topic... at this juncture, there's no need for a ~6 billion ISK ship that performs just ever so slightly better than a 500m ISK ship (Yeah, I know I'm high for the orca. I just pulled the 6b from what I remember of the JFs), and about 33% WORSE than a T1 capital that can do other fun stuff (i.e. compression, jumpclones, etc).
@ Pants comment
So yeah...Rorqual is worth what... ~2Bil? (Owns a JF AND a Rorqual)
yeah....just not that reasonable or rational concerning comparisons.
The Orca is great becasued its priced fantastically cheap (aprox half a bil) and does good for what its designed.
The only argument that is even close to being a "snow balls chance in hell" is the mid-freighter argument that crops up from time to time....this is like shovnig a rorqual into an orca.....a orca that can pass through stargates and freely fly to and fro.
A awesome ship for any industiralist....but spells doom for the markets and overall balance.
Its very easy to net a tidy profit for what we got...and that is why this idea is totally bad news. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
904
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 21:50:00 -
[23] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:We do not need a rorqual for high sec.
If your so hard pressed to make a profit....move to WHS or 0.0.
Not supporting. THIS ^ If we actually need another industrial ship of any kind it should be a dedicated gas harvester. Hate to give him +1 but he's absoltuely right...this is the only industrial ship I'd support adding. If not a Gas Strip Miner.
He just hates my Bouncing Boobies thread... EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
215
|
Posted - 2012.01.06 21:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
He just hates my Bouncing Boobies thread...
Some of us are more interested in more crucial things concerning the game and less space-playboy.
Sorry....but its just my honest opinion.
That and your ideas are sometimes off key...but I do keep an open mind. |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
34
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 09:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Naj Panora wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:We do not need a rorqual for high sec.
If your so hard pressed to make a profit....move to WHS or 0.0.
Not supporting. Some of us don't have the time to dedicate to null sec or W-space. If you got time to write this tripe of a proposal and not bother to do your homework on mechancis and balance of those mechancis....and infer use of equipment on the scale your indicateing...you got time to go to WHS/0.0 and mine. I think you have alot to learn before you make such a statement. I suggest you MAKE the time to go to WHS and 0.0 and then come back here and evalaute your proposal as such. You quite obviuosly have no concept of living in 0.0/WHS when it comes to industry. And buffing High Sec with a rorqual like ship is a threatening dare to crash the economy as it is. You have orca's...you have hulks...and you have PI....and yet you want bigger better orca's...maybe you should take a step back and think about the ramifications of your statement. I'm quite sure we would love a non-capitial rorqual out here....we'd literally make a killing. WHS Would be out of control when it comes to profitiblity with industrial core presense...specially if the ship is as big (or should I say "Small") as an orca in mass and size. But you didn't think about that did you?
Having lived in WHs myself I'd have to disagree with you there Drake. Your argument is fundamentally flawed, in that it took a mere 5 minutes to write that post I'm sure; where just scanning down a wormhole can take 45 minutes. In fact, the simplest activity in a wormhole is PI, and even that takes potentially hours at times.
Scanning down Sigs and exits, running surveillance, and managing operations is no small task for veterans.
I've heard that in 0.0, Nullbears can just run anomalies or whatever, whenever; so you might be right about that.
edit: Not that I particularly agree with the OPs idea. I think the Orca as is, is good enough for Highsec; though perhaps it and the Caps could use some fleet/corp hangar/ship bay tweaks. Couldn't really specify as I've never flown one, but even just accessing one seems a bit wierd from what I recall. I've also heard similar things regarding Caps and Orcas from others.
What's the purpose of the Industrial Core in this case I wonder? |
Velicitia
Open Designs
441
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 13:30:00 -
[26] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Velicitia wrote:Pants? Where we're going, we don't need pants. Back on topic... at this juncture, there's no need for a ~6 billion ISK ship that performs just ever so slightly better than a 500m ISK ship (Yeah, I know I'm high for the orca. I just pulled the 6b from what I remember of the JFs), and about 33% WORSE than a T1 capital that can do other fun stuff (i.e. compression, jumpclones, etc). @ Pants comment So yeah...Rorqual is worth what... ~2Bil? (Owns a JF AND a Rorqual) yeah....just not that reasonable or rational concerning comparisons. The Orca is great becasued its priced fantastically cheap (aprox half a bil) and does good for what its designed. The only argument that is even close to being a "snow balls chance in hell" is the mid-freighter argument that crops up from time to time....this is like shovnig a rorqual into an orca.....a orca that can pass through stargates and freely fly to and fro. A awesome ship for any industiralist....but spells doom for the markets and overall balance. Its very easy to net a tidy profit for what we got...and that is why this idea is totally bad news.
Yeah, a fitted rorq is ~2 ... maybe 2.5 bil. I need to get myself a JF, just haven't had the time to throw the JF skill in yet =/
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Drake Draconis
Nexus Advanced Technologies Fidelas Constans
215
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 19:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
Velicitia wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:Velicitia wrote:Pants? Where we're going, we don't need pants. Back on topic... at this juncture, there's no need for a ~6 billion ISK ship that performs just ever so slightly better than a 500m ISK ship (Yeah, I know I'm high for the orca. I just pulled the 6b from what I remember of the JFs), and about 33% WORSE than a T1 capital that can do other fun stuff (i.e. compression, jumpclones, etc). @ Pants comment So yeah...Rorqual is worth what... ~2Bil? (Owns a JF AND a Rorqual) yeah....just not that reasonable or rational concerning comparisons. The Orca is great becasued its priced fantastically cheap (aprox half a bil) and does good for what its designed. The only argument that is even close to being a "snow balls chance in hell" is the mid-freighter argument that crops up from time to time....this is like shovnig a rorqual into an orca.....a orca that can pass through stargates and freely fly to and fro. A awesome ship for any industiralist....but spells doom for the markets and overall balance. Its very easy to net a tidy profit for what we got...and that is why this idea is totally bad news. Yeah, a fitted rorq is ~2 ... maybe 2.5 bil. I need to get myself a JF, just haven't had the time to throw the JF skill in yet =/
Plan for 3 to 5 Months of wrist cutting. (5,5,5 skills) |
Velicitia
Open Designs
441
|
Posted - 2012.01.07 23:33:00 -
[28] - Quote
Drake Draconis wrote:Velicitia wrote:Drake Draconis wrote:Velicitia wrote:Pants? Where we're going, we don't need pants. Back on topic... at this juncture, there's no need for a ~6 billion ISK ship that performs just ever so slightly better than a 500m ISK ship (Yeah, I know I'm high for the orca. I just pulled the 6b from what I remember of the JFs), and about 33% WORSE than a T1 capital that can do other fun stuff (i.e. compression, jumpclones, etc). @ Pants comment So yeah...Rorqual is worth what... ~2Bil? (Owns a JF AND a Rorqual) yeah....just not that reasonable or rational concerning comparisons. The Orca is great becasued its priced fantastically cheap (aprox half a bil) and does good for what its designed. The only argument that is even close to being a "snow balls chance in hell" is the mid-freighter argument that crops up from time to time....this is like shovnig a rorqual into an orca.....a orca that can pass through stargates and freely fly to and fro. A awesome ship for any industiralist....but spells doom for the markets and overall balance. Its very easy to net a tidy profit for what we got...and that is why this idea is totally bad news. Yeah, a fitted rorq is ~2 ... maybe 2.5 bil. I need to get myself a JF, just haven't had the time to throw the JF skill in yet =/ Plan for 3 to 5 Months of wrist cutting. (5,5,5 skills)
I just need Jump Freighters
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Naj Panora
Homless Nomads
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 02:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
It seems everyone wants to make this ship a general purpose hauler which was not my intent with the ship design. I would like to see a better definition between Miners and Industrialist. Miners being the people who get the ore and Industrialist being the people who build stuff. Personally I think the Orca is too easy to get into so obviously this ship would have many many more skills required. Second the only thing this does the same as a Rorq is compress ore. It does NOT give better bonuses or offer jump capability or give people jump clones. All it really does is offer a way to move more ore and it does it slower than the Orca which is by design.
So lets get off the t2 Orca now and hear what people have to say about t3 mining ships to help differentiate miners form indy players. |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
35
|
Posted - 2012.01.08 03:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
*chuckles* when thinking of a T3 Industrial with Warp Interdiction Nullifier. |
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