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Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.07.01 11:38:00 - [31] Drones will be cute for an apoc.. but giving it 175m^3 is just to give it enough drones to be able to keep range at optimal (even pulses have pretty far range for a short ranged solution like drones). 125 M^3 dronebay (a typhoon has 175 because it's split everything, unlike a decent base armoured/turret apoc) will give it 5 heavy tech II which it can lose easily but will give it the extra oomph it might need. Extra cpu for arma (just a little bit, say 50 extra) sounds fair. Will be fun to see Short ranged, tech II heavy EM drone using Apocapulses for a change.. All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
Gabriel Karade Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.07.01 12:13:00 - [32] The last thing the game needs right now is another Nosferatu platform... An optimal range bonus would distinguish it from the other Battleships in the Amarr arsenal, though I still think they could do with doing something more interesting for Amarr in general - Khanid Mk II, and re-jig the shield and armour hitpoints, transfering a percentage of shield hitpoints into armour hitpoints (where they are more useful in the tanked layer). ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
kessah Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2007.07.01 14:11:00 - [33] i totally agree that nos\neut is the last place we want the Apoc to go down. Optimal range is pretty good idea - still think the drone bay needs a boost though. -------------------------------------------------------- [Video] Forever Pirate 3
Muffin Menace Reikoku	Posted - 2007.07.01 20:16:00 - [34] Give it the 25% bonus to cap at base, with 10% range per level and 10% cap reduction, leave drone bay at 75m3. [controversial] that or make it into an arby, with same slot layout as Domi ;o [/controversial] __________________ "Out on bail fresh outta jail, California dreamin"
Franconis Gallente	Posted - 2007.07.01 20:46:00 - [35] Ok, this idea is flat out nuts, but I would fly an apoc if it had the following: 5-10% optimal range bonus per level Tracking disruptor range bonus switch one low slot to a mid for ewar It would have good range, but if you tried to fit very many tracking disruptors, you would have to sacrifice range. IMO, it would be a very good fleet ship if not a bit too good. _________ Gallente FTW
Broska coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.01 20:50:00 - [36] Make it a bigger arbi or a nos boat. Optimal range bonus would be pointless. Our other two BS's do fleets fine as it is. ------------------------------ Originally by: Tovarishch flying a Scorp into a fleet battle is like parking a pink moped in front of a biker bar - you will die... quickly.
Erim Solfara Amarr House of Solfara	Posted - 2007.07.02 01:03:00 - [37] 10% to range would be lovely :D The Apoc is overshadowed after the Abaddon got both a damage and a tank bonus, leaving the Apoc with, er, a cap bonus, and another cap bonus. Nos/neuts is NOT where Amarr should be going IMO. A new tool in the fight for balance?
Museyman Amarr Without Reason	Posted - 2007.07.02 01:58:00 - [38] The Apoc used to have a 125m3 drone bay when i started playing eve around 2 years ago, i think. I remember trying to undock mine with 5 heavys in the bay and it wouldn't let me. Must of been after Castor, maybe. anyway Geddon could do with 40 more CPU or else a high slot goes to waste or some mid slot items cant be used. It would at-least allow a 24km scram to be used. Apoc could do with 10% optimal range bonus (like damnation) 10% Energy turret cap use and maybe the 125m3 drone bay. With those bonuses it would be a viable fleet sniper too. Would be nice to actually see an Apoc in combat again. flame away.
Cyan Nuevo The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.07.02 04:31:00 - [39] Why are you all saying that the Amarr shouldn't get another cap warfare ship? I don't see any problem with this after the nos nerf, whatever it is. --- Proud Amarr pilot.
DUFFMANX Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.07.02 04:32:00 - [40] Edited by: DUFFMANX on 02/07/2007 04:32:02 I have a bit of a more unique idea, some were looking for drone boat and others for nos/neut how bout a combo but not in way u think Keep the 10% per lvl to lrg energy turret cap use and make the drone bay to 150m¦, add 2 turret slots (7 turret/3 missile), remove 1 high slot and add a medium slot. Decrerase the cpu by 23 and increase grid by 220. The new bonus would be something like this - 10% bonus to neutralizer drones effectiveness per lvl amarr bs. PS: hi kessah long time no c This way ppl get good drone combo wit their nos/neuit fixation. also wit that bit of cpu removed it makes it harder to fit all nos/neuts up top wit super tank and injectors so ppl will think bout laser/nos/ missile combos in diff variations along wit neutraliser drones which i personally nvr see used. Perhaps they have give bonus like this to other tier 2 bs to promote use of other faction ew drones. Originally by: dimensionZ The biggest threat we ever had was xirtam mining plagioclase in aridia ...
Elite Marksman	Posted - 2007.07.02 04:33:00 - [41] I'm liking the 10% to range bonus... Pop some MF/Gamma into the megapulses and go afk for 4 hours while you pound the POS. (ISS/RISE really like to put unarmed POSes up )
Great Artista Purple Cloud	Posted - 2007.07.02 04:42:00 - [42] Hai kessah o/ And in total agreement, apoc is roleless at the moment. Its mainly used for missions, but it has very limited damage types making raven in allmost all situations a better choise. No more nos ships okay? There is allready a nos BS in the game (no, not domi, bhaalgorn or whatever it was called) plus curse and pilgrim. Optimal bonus, or drone bonus would be nice. ___________________________________ You can either choose to agree the above, or distribute your own opinions, if you do; please flame, I like making people angry. <3
Tiddlywink	Posted - 2007.07.02 06:18:00 - [43] Honestly, f**k the Apoc. Agreed?
vostok	Posted - 2007.07.02 06:52:00 - [44] everybody here who said increased drone bay... are you seriously kidding?! the apoc was never meant to be a damage dealer, its a cap ship, and it already is the cap king so all that about a 10% bonus... not likely, man do you even compare the ship to other ships of the same class, you give it the drone bay boost, then suddenly the megathron needs a massive power increase to make it comparable. and then what of the tempest, thats going to need an extra turret at least... the 10% range boost per level isnt going to happen... that would mean it would be as good as the rokh with a load more powergrid AND the tier below. come on guys be realistic here, even if you get the damage bonus instead of cap what do you end up with... everybody who quite happily used the apoc as a neut ship ****ed off and a bigger badder arma (which is amazing already btw). this just isnt happening, theres nothing wrong with the ship, but there is something wrong with the people who think its underpowered, you want damage use the arma or the abaddon. now come on guys, learn to pilot your ships.
Mastin Dragonfly Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.07.02 07:19:00 - [45] Originally by: vostok everybody here who said increased drone bay... are you seriously kidding?! the apoc was never meant to be a damage dealer, its a cap ship, and it already is the cap king so all that about a 10% bonus... not likely, man do you even compare the ship to other ships of the same class, you give it the drone bay boost, then suddenly the megathron needs a massive power increase to make it comparable. and then what of the tempest, thats going to need an extra turret at least... the 10% range boost per level isnt going to happen... that would mean it would be as good as the rokh with a load more powergrid AND the tier below. come on guys be realistic here, even if you get the damage bonus instead of cap what do you end up with... everybody who quite happily used the apoc as a neut ship ****ed off and a bigger badder arma (which is amazing already btw). this just isnt happening, theres nothing wrong with the ship, but there is something wrong with the people who think its underpowered, you want damage use the arma or the abaddon. now come on guys, learn to pilot your ships. You are aware that Tuxford himself said that the ship is NOT allright and needs a make over?
vostok	Posted - 2007.07.02 09:07:00 - [46] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Originally by: vostok everybody here who said increased drone bay... are you seriously kidding?! the apoc was never meant to be a damage dealer, its a cap ship, and it already is the cap king so all that about a 10% bonus... not likely, man do you even compare the ship to other ships of the same class, you give it the drone bay boost, then suddenly the megathron needs a massive power increase to make it comparable. and then what of the tempest, thats going to need an extra turret at least... the 10% range boost per level isnt going to happen... that would mean it would be as good as the rokh with a load more powergrid AND the tier below. come on guys be realistic here, even if you get the damage bonus instead of cap what do you end up with... everybody who quite happily used the apoc as a neut ship ****ed off and a bigger badder arma (which is amazing already btw). this just isnt happening, theres nothing wrong with the ship, but there is something wrong with the people who think its underpowered, you want damage use the arma or the abaddon. now come on guys, learn to pilot your ships. You are aware that Tuxford himself said that the ship is NOT allright and needs a make over? my alt flies an apoc, i have no problems with it as a cap boat.
Sylek Amarr The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.02 09:20:00 - [47] Step 1: Remove 10% bonus to energy turret cap use bonus. Make lasers use less cap or give "50% to energy turret cap use" to all ships. Step 2a: Give the Apoc a 5% damage/RoF/armor resistance and 10% optimal. Step 2b: Give the 'geddon, uh I don't know, I've never imagined what it would be like flying Amarr ships with two bonuses. More RoF perhaps? Maybe a 5% damage bonus? Something to do with lasers I think definitely, I'm not really interested in more drone/nos boats. Read the description on most amarr ships and they'll tell you that they're all for using lasers. Step 2c: Yay the Abaddon works Also the slot layouts on the Amarr BSes are quite boring. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, it's nice being able to tank in fleet battles but still, I'd love the 'geddon if it had 6 lows, 5 meds, 8 highs. Also an extra low for the Abaddon to make it a little bit better as a Tier 3 BS maybe. But oh well. Maybe in the next life.
vostok	Posted - 2007.07.02 09:56:00 - [48] Originally by: Sylek Edited by: Sylek on 02/07/2007 09:26:31 Step 1: Remove 10% bonus to energy turret cap use bonus. Make lasers use less cap or give "50% to energy turret cap use" to all ships. Step 2a: Give the Apoc a 5% damage/RoF/armor resistance and 10% optimal. Step 2b: Give the 'geddon, uh I don't know, I've never imagined what it would be like flying Amarr ships with two bonuses. More RoF perhaps? Maybe a 5% damage bonus? Something to do with lasers I think definitely, I'm not really interested in more drone/nos boats. Read the description on most amarr ships and they'll tell you that they're all for using lasers. Step 2c: Yay the Abaddon works Also the slot layouts on the Amarr BSes are quite boring. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, it's nice being able to tank in fleet battles but still, I'd love the 'geddon if it had 6 lows, 5 meds, 8 highs. Also an extra low for the Abaddon to make it a little bit better as a Tier 3 BS maybe. But oh well. Maybe in the next life. Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot - Damage types. Removing the bonus to cap usage on amarr ships is unlikely to happen as this would require lasers to be completely remodeled, since they have the extra damage already built into them (yes they do do a lot of damage, an arma can match a megathron with ion blasters using its extra low for a HS2 and btw it can do that damage a lot further than the mega can) I still dont see any problem for amarr ships. im thinking of training my main for a geddon to replace his megathron. and the abaddon wasnt meant to work, it was almost meant to ave cap problems and BTW its the highest damage sniper going.
Sylek Amarr The Fated Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.02 10:30:00 - [49] Originally by: vostok Removing the bonus to cap usage on amarr ships is unlikely to happen as this would require lasers to be completely remodeled, since they have the extra damage already built into them (yes they do do a lot of damage, an arma can match a megathron with ion blasters using its extra low for a HS2 and btw it can do that damage a lot further than the mega can) I still dont see any problem for amarr ships. im thinking of training my main for a geddon to replace his megathron. and the abaddon wasnt meant to work, it was almost meant to ave cap problems and BTW its the highest damage sniper going. Let's say I'm doing close range. The Geddon is nice, that's true. It can do nice damage with Dual Heavy Pulses and even nicer if you fit some grid rigs/RCUs to put a full rack of Mega Pulses. With BS 5 I do lots of damage. Now, I'll upgrade to an apoc, lose my 5 heavy drones, lose my RoF bonus and get some extra cap. The apoc has a lot of cap and crappy damage. So now I'll upgrade to an Abaddon. Wtf, I can't tank/shoot anymore. Ok, so I go back to the hangar, fit 3 CCC rigs, 2 cap relays, 1 heavy nos and an heavy injector. Now I can shoot again but I just wasted 3 rig slots 2 lows and 1 med to be able to do that. With 7 Mega Pulses and 5 medium drones the armageddon can easily match the Abaddon in damage. As for tank, it comes with a built-in EANMII, but after that it's only got 5 lows left for tanking/damage mods (the other two went into cap mods to sustain it, remember) Now, sniping There's the Armageddon, which can fit 7 Tachyon II's with 2 RCU II's. 6 low slots for tracking/damage mods/heat sinks. Doesn't really have any huge cap problems, nothing that an injector can't solve. There's the Apoc which is basically like the Armageddon but can keep shooting for longer (extra cap and no RoF bonus) and comes with one extra medslot and a built-in RCUII (one less low, more PG). There's the Abaddon which is extremely hard to fire for extended amounts of time and requires so many module slots for cap use that you'll have very few left for damage mods/tank. I can't say accurately but the lack of NOS also makes it hard. An injector, 3 rig slots and 3-4 lows/meds should do the trick. The extra PG makes it so that you don't need any RCU's or Ancillary Current Routers but you'll still have to fit some if you want to tank anyway and that's pretty hard when you've got so many mods in cap regen. Also, the Armageddon can almost match the Abaddon in sniping damage, it's just got one less turret slot. And if the enemy comes close you could use that dronebay for some sentries. Anyway, I just think it's stupid to have a bonus on all your ships that says "Makes lasers work". And look at the Abaddon who lost this bonus, he gained 25% resistances across the board but now he needs to dedicate oh-so-many slots to cap mods, much more than you'd normally need to gain those resistances.
Brother Tycho Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.02 11:24:00 - [50] Geddon is the only Amarr BS lives upto its name ans always has now with the tracking buff is even better. Apoc needs its cap bonus replaced with 10% opt to fill a role in the BS lineup also some extra grid would be a step in the right direction. What can i say about the Abaddon if it had the same bonuses and drone bay as the geddon it would be worthwhile but only as a step up from the geddon. SOD Killboard
kliop Wisdom Seekers	Posted - 2007.07.02 11:40:00 - [51] i think if the bonus was 7,5% cap recharge or 7,5% more cap instead of 5 more cap....u could go somewhere...or make its 2 bonues 7,5 % recharger and 7,5% more cap?:) that should give some insane capacitor i would guess? 8,4k cap without skills etc... well that should allow to use your guns long enough and should allow to get very good boost with only a few cap mods... or 10% more cap 5% recharge rate:) ...wow i am wet already with those stuff... -------------------------------- hello o/
zwerg kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.07.02 11:45:00 - [52] totally agree with kessah. when i started playing 2005, there have been a "few" pocs and geddons out there, now it is only a few 2 month old nubs with small guns and 200mm plates... tbh i havent fought an experienced apoc/geddon pilot in my whole eve-life, no joke here, and i pvp alot so boost sa poc and get free cookies from zwerg da cookie master!!!! _______________________________________________ Originally by: zwerg du wat yu wand cuz a piwad iz freeeeee.... uuuu r a piwat! hey!
Lucian Alucard Caldari Black Vice Industries	Posted - 2007.07.02 11:46:00 - [53] CPU tweak cut Large pulse fall off in half decrease turret cap use increase cap regen rate make the base cap equal to having bs 4 make the cap amount bonus a 5% to damage bonus make ALL crystals do Em AND THERMAL (Raidio should be 20 Em and 6-10 therm)
vostok	Posted - 2007.07.02 14:08:00 - [54] Originally by: kliop i think if the bonus was 7,5% cap recharge or 7,5% more cap instead of 5 more cap....u could go somewhere...or make its 2 bonues 7,5 % recharger and 7,5% more cap?:) that should give some insane capacitor i would guess? 8,4k cap without skills etc... well that should allow to use your guns long enough and should allow to get very good boost with only a few cap mods... or 10% more cap 5% recharge rate:) ...wow i am wet already with those stuff... you do understand that a 7.5 recharge and capacity would have a multiplier effect on the base cap recharge rate of 2.2, thats a 120% boost... -.- if you had a 10% capacity and 5% recharge you only get a 100% increase :P as if the capacitor on the apoc isnt good enough already, it can run 8 neuts solid already without too much trouble. it doesnt need any more cap.
Almarez Setenta Corp	Posted - 2007.07.02 15:45:00 - [55] It all boils down to cap usage of lasers. If they fixed that then this is how I see the Amarrian BS: Abaddon - same except change one of the high slots to a med slot. Geddon - rof bonus the same but give it a tracking bonus (in all honesty I would love an rof bonus and a drone damage/hp bonus but I think the that would make the Geddon overpowered and would cost an arm and a leg). Also, help with the fitting on this thing please. Apoc - optimal range and tracking/falloff/hp/anything other than stupid cap bonuses. This is what we would have then, the Geddon would be an alpha-strike short range ship. The Abaddon would be the beastly tanker but could still do some pretty good DPS, and could go either short range or long range and just some flexibility with 5 med slots. The Apoc would then be the sniper of the group. Not great DPS but nice long range. New outpost-30 bil isk, Items to save up for cap ships-700 mil isk, Going to bed early now that you don't have to work for that and realizing how much poontang you were missing-PRICELESS

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