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rodway
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Posted - 2007.07.03 00:22:00 -
[1]
I just returned from a few months break from the game and started a new gallente character. One of the parts that interested me most about the new features in the new pach was the LP store, removing the randomness of agent offers certainly makes missions more appealing at least to me anyway.
Being a new character im pretty much limited to lvl 1 and 2 missions for the time being while i train up the skills required for the bigger ships. I decided to set myself the goal of accumulating enough LP to buy myself a gallente navy comet and fit it with gallente navy modules, i did this for no other reason other than to set myself a target and keep me interested while i grind missions and improve my skills.
However after the first mission and gaining access to the LP store to see what the federation navy has to offer my plans were quickly put on hold. I went through the store a few times adding up the LP needed to fit a comet with gallente navy modules and soon learned that it would not be possable (within a reasonable amount of time) to do this as it would require between 100,000 and 150,000 LP depending on which ship offer i take to fit it out.
running level 1 and 2 missions this would take a long time, by the time i had enough points to accomplish my goal i would probably have the skills to fly battleships and run lvl 4 missions making the comet useless, And lets face it, faction frigates and alot of the cruisers are pretty useless for PVP and generally better off suited to PVE.
Due to the time required to accumulate these points its my belief that the LP cost 0f some frigate items and the frigates themselves are maybe a little on the high side and need reducing so that newer players running lvl 1 and 2 missions can gain access to them and actually put them to use.
Obviously doing this have its plus points for the newer players and some bad points aswell.
Pros to reducing LP costs:
* Newer players gain access to the faction frigates much sooner and give them something to aim for
* faction frigate prices drop to a level where they can be used in PVP without breaking the bank.
* module prices drop aswell, again allowing newer players access to the better guns etc without having to train for t2 guns.
* Come factional warfare would be fun to see an all gallente navy fleet up against an all caldari navy fleet, made possable by the reduced costs of items and ships.
* faction ships/modules become more than just a paperweight in hangers
Cons of reducing LP costs:
* generally the only con i can see is the reduction in prices that ships/mods sell for, i know alot of mission runners use the offers to boost there wallet balance.
Obviously there are some problem modules that are useable on all ships such as scramblers, webbers etc that if reduced in price effect all ship setups, but generally the navy modules arent any better than t2, so them falling in price below t2 prices isnt really a problem. There are some exceptions of course, where each navy i think has a specific module that is better than the t2 version, maybe have to leave those at a higher price to balance this.
Thats all i really have to say, i think the battleships are fine as they are as they are generally better than the t1 versions, something the frigates cant really say as the t1 versions are generally better.
feel free to flame away, although i would prefer some constructive criticism with arguements for and against LP reductions, and some reasons why you think this.
Rodway.
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Rangkai
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Posted - 2007.07.03 01:34:00 -
[2]
Actually you will gain access to your items far faster than the old way.
Because your LP will stay with you as you switch agents..
So, start out with a L1 agent, run missions until you have enough standing for a L2 agent (and by this time you can do missions in a cruiser) then a few thousand LP later.. move to L3.. each level of agent and quality you go up.. gets you more LP.. and even better.. Gang up with friends who have high standings and share LP on some L4's and you can have your comet in a few weeks.
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rodway
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Posted - 2007.07.03 02:14:00 -
[3]
Edited by: rodway on 03/07/2007 02:15:45 But the way you describe it, im having to do lvl 3 and 4 missions to get the LP required for the faction frigates, which by that time is pointless as the frigates cant run the higher missions and also you still have faction frigates with a value of around 40 - 50 million isk, and very few of them actually being used at all. By reducing there LP value you encourage there use in PVP, newer players get to use them in there lvl 1 and 2 missions which they are capable of doing and the ships dont just sit in hangers anymore gathering dust, basically making the ships more useful.
doing this would probably annoy a few people but at the moment for the newer players (ive played this game for nearly 2 years, this is just a new character) it actually gives them something decent to purchase in the LP store. Right now theres maybe the faction ammo, which is usefull, but the guns cost like 16,000 LP which again would take ages running lvl 1 and 2 missions, and some +1% implants which are kinda useless.
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Nalar Marnith
Minmatar Tetranex Consolidated
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Posted - 2007.07.03 06:12:00 -
[4]
Faction stuff is a luxury. You pay BIG for it.
Faction frigates are generally not worth the effort. For the time and effort they take to get you'd be better off in a cruiser.
I'm aiming for dual faction reps for my phoon, and while I have the isk and LP, the number of tags i'll need is insane.
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Fenren
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Posted - 2007.07.03 06:51:00 -
[5]
as is said, faction stuff are a luxury. and if small items would be sheep enough every inty would be faction fitted.
a lot of the stuff are equal or better than t2 and have fittings a lot lower. and because a lot of fittings require best namen to work because they are low on cpu/pg, the ability to use factionfitts for lower-than-t2 would be devestating.
when you really need the factionstuff it it already well worth it.
the t2 market is run by the players. we build the stuff, mine the minerals (some of it at least, loot is some too) and sell the stuff. faction parts are bought from npc's. that fact alone should be enough to keep the stuff as luxury items
Originally by: CCP Ginger Hello!
Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
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rodway
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Posted - 2007.07.03 12:58:00 -
[6]
faction stuff is a luxury yes, and for the battleships i can understand why they cost so much LP wise as they are better than the t1 version and there is no t2 variant. However the problem i have is with the smaller ships, the frigates in particular and also the cruisers.
As you have pointed out at the moment the frigates at there current cost arent worth the effort, thats why i think the LP cost should be reduced for them and there modules, to make them more viable in all roles and actually become a ship that is used and not one that just sits in a hanger all day, and also make them within reach of the newer players who dont have access to lvl 4 agents straight away.
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Mikal Drey
Angels and Demons
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:28:00 -
[7]
hey hey
I think you proved the biggest Con of all; ALTism. Regardless or not wether your a totally new player or a player using the alt system to access various items ingame its totally open to abuse.
Yes yes yes it would be nice to have cheaper faction goodies but it takes away eveerything from the long term player and spoils the exclusivity of certain faction items. Ive had a full set of RF faction ammo sitting in my hanger for a long time now and the recent addition of the LP store has taken away the exclusive (and kinda proud tbvfh) nature of my small collection.
Players have forum whined about short lifed characters flying CNR's for ages and the new CCP are bringing the gap between Vet/n00b ever closer. Everything i aspired to when i was a young nublet pilot is now achievable withing a few months of gameplay sometimes even at creation :/ We have something new in the game and to make it totally accessable to everyone just feels totally against the eve ethos. Just making everything cheap / accessable / free / easy just makes me cry.
While i also believe that the game should evolve and also try to attract the new players & more RL Iskies to CCP I firmly believe the game is sinking into the quagmire that is WOW. I helped a new guy out just yesterday and he said it wasnt a new player friendly game but i assured him things get better as they go and thats how eve should always be.
ITs a harsh world out here but its fun learning and having a decent sense of achievement when you finally get there. Lowering the difficulty of everything isnt what eve is or should be about. Work hard, get rewarded.
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Shiva Shakti
Gallente Hi-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2007.07.03 13:56:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Nalar Marnith
stuff...the number of tags I'll need is insane.
Very true indeed, especially sad as my Gallente industrial character does not bother that much with kill missions (does, production, marketing, admin and R&D etc) and therefore can only buy the tags off the market, but there are so few as everyone is saving up etc
They do need to reduce the number of tags by at least half and include belt rat/named pirates tags in the offers as well, then ratting for tags/mission running might become useful...at these levels I can't be bothered with it all and might do more PvP lol
I'm also annoyed that CCP have let the Loyalty shop become a backwards step in choice in some regards, offers seem to be race specific
...my Gallente kill missions agent has the same offers in his LP shop for my character as the University of Calle agent. The Uni of Calle agent doesn't even offer more than 2 social skill books the same as my other Gallente agents, wheres the variety here?
Visit the EvE Galactic Stock Exchange in game or out |
rodway
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Posted - 2007.07.03 16:47:00 -
[9]
Im no ALT, this is my main character now after coming back from a break.
the point im trying to make is that by the time a player is able to purchase a facion frigate the frigate itself is useless as it can not complete the lvl 4 missions they are running at the time and become giant paperweights in peoples hangers. They also are rarely used in PVP due to there high cost LP -> isk wise, which to me is just a huge waste of a ship. By reducing there otal costs to a lvl that does not make them stupid ship choices for PVP, you actually make PVP more interesting by bringing in variety and not having the same old ships o fight against everytime.
im sorry you feel cheated because you faction ammo collection isnt so rare anymore but the old random agent offer system was stupid and needed changing, and i feel it is many times better now than it was before and im sure most people would agree with me.
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thetwilitehour
Beyond Divinity Inc Blind Beavers
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Posted - 2007.07.03 16:56:00 -
[10]
Edited by: thetwilitehour on 03/07/2007 16:57:37 I think some LP costs should be reduced, but I dont know that level 1 mission runners should have access to all of them. Based on invention build costs I think faction ships and modules should be targeted at some percentage of the t2 versions. Say for frigates 80% of the build cost of a t2 frigate, and for a cruiser 90% of the build cost. Modules are more tricky, since some are significantly better than their t2 counterparts, especially when, with the addition of loads of faction ammo, t2 ammo is no longer the be all end all.
Personally I'd like to see more faction ships especially being used, so I think the costs for some of the smaller ships and frigate sized modules especially are far to high.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.03 16:57:00 -
[11]
I use my firetail in pvp all the time, don't know what eveverse you are playing in
Real turtles tank armor. Real men fly Pink.
Nerfageddon!
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rodway
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Posted - 2007.07.03 20:58:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme I use my firetail in pvp all the time, don't know what eveverse you are playing in
Thats great but the majority of people cant afford to, not at there current cost.
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BOX 7149
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Posted - 2007.07.03 21:31:00 -
[13]
well, actually not everybody is suppoesed to fly a faction firetail in pvp.
nothing wrong here.
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Khonsu
Rest home for Tired Seadogs
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Posted - 2007.07.03 22:31:00 -
[14]
Navy module offers are way overpriced. What makes me so sure, you say. Let me give you an example.
Amarr Navy Heat Sink. Price:
30k LP + 12 mill ISK + 20 mill worth of tags = 62 million ISK (tags are calculated from lowest offers on the Forge market and the LP=30 mill)
True Sansha Heat Sink. Price: 28-35 mill ISK from contracts.
Dark Blood Heat Sink. Price: 35mill+ from contracts.
These three modules are 100% identical stat-wise, only the names are different. In other words, taking the Navy offer would be utterly stupid.
I also started calculating how much it would cost to Navy fit a Hookbill. I stopped after the weapons, which would set me back roughly 150 million, just for 4 weapons for a FRIGATE (and a crappy one too). I didn't calculate the full price for the faction fitting, but I estimate it at 400 milion, likely more. Add the 30 million for the ship to that, and you're not that far away from half a billion.
That's way past the point where you can call faction fitting a "luxury" and well into the realm of insanity. Flying a faction frigate or cruiser is just a silly gimmick to begin with because they are so thoroughly beaten by the T2 versions, but to then faction fit it and USE it in combat would take a mentally challenged person with the current LP "offers".
It's not a luxury, it's a one-way ticket to the strait jacket.
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Aslann
Gallente Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2007.07.03 23:30:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Aslann on 03/07/2007 23:30:36 Your ISK/LP prices seem a bit high, if you look at stat implants offers and implants on the market the price of LP seems to be more at 500 isk/lp :(.
(Still allot of the stuff in the LP is still way to expensive, not only the tags part, but the ISK parts aswell. You pay in ISK half the price of an implant at the current prices, which will prolly only go down cause of the increased supply.)
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Arron S
Gallente Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.07.04 00:34:00 -
[16]
I like the new system:), But I am still going to pound on the lvl 4 Q15+ agents, when I get a new BS
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Nabar Phargal
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Posted - 2007.07.04 01:03:00 -
[17]
The 1000 isk per LP comes from Nexus chips. There are NPC buy orders for them at that ratio. Of course if the corp you run doesn't have nexus chips, your LP are worth less.
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Khonsu
Rest home for Tired Seadogs
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Posted - 2007.07.04 12:09:00 -
[18]
Yes, so... both with and without Nexus chips, Navy modules are overpriced (especially small/medium modules). Most of the offers should be toned down so they will actually see some use. Making them cheaper would turn them into luxury items instead of what they are now.
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Alrich
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Posted - 2007.07.04 12:31:00 -
[19]
but as it is now, it is the only bonus the traders have when they decide to go out for a little pvp... 500 mill for a nice faction fitted faction frigg can be quite fun
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