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Pink Teletubby
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Posted - 2007.07.05 14:39:00 -
[1]
Goal of this ship is to survive suicide attacks in empire.
Most likly those occur while blackscreened by undocking or getting bumped while undocking...
Thus as we take lag into account it has to be a passive Tank.
Cargo isnt an issue as we asume we haul very expensive but low volume stuff, so any ship should do.
As we haul in Empire, dont suggest Cap-Ships plz.
Furthermore guns are not needed as Concord will do the killing if we are attacked.
My first guess was a Drake, but I suppose there are better ships for the job :)
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NoNah
Marzipan Monkeys Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.05 14:41:00 -
[2]
Vulture iirc.
If youre really worried, look into the basilisk, remote repping is not a bad thing mkay?
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Alrich
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Posted - 2007.07.05 14:43:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Alrich on 05/07/2007 14:44:41 a vulture maybe? or some cind of faction ship might be better
edit: or the hulltanked domi? that one has a hell of a lot hp...
remember that you only need to survive for a short time, you dont need to tank it.
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Let Nelass
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Posted - 2007.07.05 14:45:00 -
[4]
Best passive shield tank ships:
Nighthawk > Vulture > Myrmidon > Drake
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Pry Maraai
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.07.05 14:50:00 -
[5]
This might be the only thing a navy augoror is good at =) 40-50k or so of armor on a cruiser sized ship would take a while to kill.
And with a oneiros/guardian outside the station allready it would stay alive.
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NoNah
Marzipan Monkeys Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.05 14:53:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Let Nelass Best passive shield tank ships:
Nighthawk > Vulture > Myrmidon > Drake
Does the last lowslot really make that much of a difference? Note that you cannot use active harderners in this case as no modules may be activated during the black screen of death.
Post count: 325127
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Fenren
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Posted - 2007.07.05 14:58:00 -
[7]
I would go for max hp instead of recharge.
what non-cap ship has the largest hp? remember that damage control is useless as you cant activate a module...
Originally by: CCP Ginger Hello!
Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
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NoNah
Marzipan Monkeys Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.05 14:59:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Fenren I would go for max hp instead of recharge.
what non-cap ship has the largest hp? remember that damage control is useless as you cant activate a module...
Freighter.
Post count: 694738
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Fenren
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Posted - 2007.07.05 15:01:00 -
[9]
Originally by: NoNah
Originally by: Fenren I would go for max hp instead of recharge.
what non-cap ship has the largest hp? remember that damage control is useless as you cant activate a module...
Freighter.
actually, that is a cap-ship... and it brings too much attention, and everyone knows exactley how much hp it will have.
Originally by: CCP Ginger Hello!
Ships have crews, most pod controlled frigates do not, above that they have crews of varying sizes. Hope that helps.
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zwerg
kleptomaniacs
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Posted - 2007.07.05 15:02:00 -
[10]
augoror navy issue, Dark Elf's tbh 100k armor with good resists > nighthawk
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NoNah
Marzipan Monkeys Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.05 15:03:00 -
[11]
Oh, but its not a cap ship per se.
Does it require Capital ship - The skill<tm>? Can it use jump drives or jump gates? Is it allowed in highsec? What indicates that it would be a capital ship - except for the fact of advanced spaceship command? What tells you that advanced spaceship command has anything to do with capital ships?
Everyone does now how much hitpoints it will have, thats quite true, but it will still be stronger than any other ship. You asked for maximal amount of HP, not for discretion.
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Marcus Alkhaar
Conisor Excavations Syndicate Antagonistic Assembly
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Posted - 2007.07.05 15:06:00 -
[12]
Originally by: zwerg augoror navy issue, Dark Elf's tbh 100k armor with good resists > nighthawk
setup pls
Originally by: Tanksmann just so you you know putting "Dev" or "Tux" in the topic probably lessens the dev attention your topic receives
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2007.07.05 15:49:00 -
[13]
Eos or Domi Passive shield tanking guide click here |
NoNah
Marzipan Monkeys Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.05 15:56:00 -
[14]
Edited by: NoNah on 05/07/2007 15:57:27
Originally by: Pottsey Eos or Domi
Why?
Originally by: Marcus Alkhaar
Originally by: zwerg augoror navy issue, Dark Elf's tbh 100k armor with good resists > nighthawk
setup pls
I was as sceptical as you are, decided to give it a shot in eve fitting tool, and whoa.
125k armor.
2x 1600 plates, 1x 800mm 4x Regerenative platings 3x Trimark Pump II's Slave set Akemons
Does however require either a grid implant or cosmos plates to fit, or it can be replaced by a regenerative plating for 121k armor instead.
Post count: 548426
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Pry Maraai
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.07.05 15:57:00 -
[15]
You can get a load of HP on the navy augoror with energized regeneratgive + plates + slave set and so on.
But 40-50k is a bit more realistic I guess.
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Waxau
Amarr Liberty Rogues Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.05 16:01:00 -
[16]
vultures tank is FAR better than a nighthawks - Trust me, i fly them every day, and know exactly their limits. Nighthawk exchanges its tank (in terms of a vulture) with its damage.
Nighthawk tanks slightly better than a drake.
Vulture tanks far better than a nighthawk.
Trust me there - its experience.
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NoNah
Marzipan Monkeys Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.05 16:06:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Waxau vultures tank is FAR better than a nighthawks - Trust me, i fly them every day, and know exactly their limits. Nighthawk exchanges its tank (in terms of a vulture) with its damage.
Nighthawk tanks slightly better than a drake.
Vulture tanks far better than a nighthawk.
Trust me there - its experience.
Question is, have you got any experience of tanking "afk" without any active module(IE harderners)?
Post count: 786190
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Let Nelass
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Posted - 2007.07.05 18:30:00 -
[18]
Huh. Just ran the numbers.
It seems that the Vulture's improved resistances do outweigh the Nighthawk's greater regen rate when maxing passive tank.
Nighthawk 12% better vs. EM/EXP Vulture 12% better vs. Kinetic, 33% better vs. Thermal
Vulture 11% better avg.
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Judas Lonestar
Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.05 18:34:00 -
[19]
I use a Drake with very good success. If you dont load up the highs with gear you could put any type of tank you wanted on it without a second thought.
Then again, I'm Caldari spec so I gotta play the cards I'm dealt.
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NoNah
Marzipan Monkeys Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.05 18:41:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Judas Lonestar I use a Drake with very good success. If you dont load up the highs with gear you could put any type of tank you wanted on it without a second thought.
Then again, I'm Caldari spec so I gotta play the cards I'm dealt.
No offense, but dare I ask if you understood the question correctly?
Seeing how the highs have no purpose what so ever in this scenario, and its a very rare scenario. Have you ever set up your drake to tank while you're hauling - with no control over your ship? Thus no invulnerability fields, no harderners no... you get the point.
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Lux Exterior
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Posted - 2007.07.05 19:23:00 -
[21]
Rattlesnake has THE most godly non-capital passive shield tank (if money is no object).
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NoNah
Marzipan Monkeys Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.05 19:32:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lux Exterior Rattlesnake has THE most godly non-capital passive shield tank (if money is no object).
Sounds quite likely, though, I don't suppose you would care to share the setup? Some numbers etc?
Post count: 302059
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Sedai Hara
Caldari The Forsakened Companions Storm Armada
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Posted - 2007.07.05 19:47:00 -
[23]
Vulture end of story
Nothing keeps up with its insane HP, insane resist (gang modules), and insane recharger.
Prob is it cant do much else than tank in passive mode. but no ship is near that tank, no the NH/Drake looses bigtime against it, i fly all 3 and i know their limitations.
Want to tank? get a pimped vulture, nothing beats that in passive mode. -----------------------------
Originally by: Ozzie Asrail A mega without 3 magstabs fitted is like kladdkaka without chocolate.
Kladdkaka = Chocolate cake fyi. Swede ftw! |
NoNah
Marzipan Monkeys Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.05 20:30:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sedai Hara
Nothing keeps up with its insane HP, insane resist (gang modules), and insane recharger.
Prob is it cant do much else than tank in passive mode. but no ship is near that tank, no the NH/Drake looses bigtime against it, i fly all 3 and i know their limitations.
Want to tank? get a pimped vulture, nothing beats that in passive mode.
How do you utilize the gang modules on the vulture, if you cant activate modules? What else is there to do but tank, in the given scenario? Have you compared it to the Rattlesnake? At what kind of dps would it pass the augoror for example, in tanking, seeing how most suicide ganks reach pretty high dps, and often use pretty big guns - blaster domis or torp ravens, perhaps sig radius is quite important?
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Lux Exterior
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Posted - 2007.07.05 21:00:00 -
[25]
Rattlesnake:
1 x LSE2, 3 x Shield Recharger 2, T2 Photon and Heat Resistance Amps
6 x SPR2
3 x CDFP
19218 Shield in 114 seconds with no hardwiring or gang boni.
The Vulture has much higher resists but cannot get close on recharge (170 seconds) and requires 4 x LSE2 to get similar hitpoints, but I concede that it is a very close run thing and the resists may just tip the scales in the Vultures favour.
But if you can shoot back then I'd take the Rattlesnake any day.
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Let Nelass
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Posted - 2007.07.05 21:17:00 -
[26]
Well, I'm not going to touch sig radius calculations with a 10-foot pole, seeing as we don't know the oppositin. But here is the pure raw passive tanking data on the three contenders...
Using T2 set ups, all lows SPR II, including rigs T2, maxed skills and +5 shield hp and recharge implant (only passive mods):
Vulture: 2x shield recharge II, 4x LSE II Nighthawk: 1x shield recharge II, 3x LSE II Rattlesnake: 5x shield recharge II; 1x LSE II
Vulture: Max rep, 371.3
Type: Resist: Tankable DPS: EM: 25% 495.07 EXP: 70% 1237.67 KIN: 77.5% 1650.22 THER: 85% 2475.33
Nighthawk: Max rep, 415.29
Type: Resist: Tankable DPS: EM: 25% 553.72 EXP: 70% 1384.3 KIN: 71.88% 1479.85 THER: 77.5% 1845.73
Rattlesnake: Max rep, 785.18
Type: Resist: Tankable DPS: EM: 0% 785.18 EXP: 60% 1962.95 KIN: 40% 1308.63 THER: 20% 981.475
And the winner is (drumroll) The Vulture! Although there is no huge difference between them.
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Warrio
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.05 21:20:00 -
[27]
I swear, only about 3 people who replied to this topic actually even looked at the OP's question.
Sig removed due to being too freaking awsome. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Deckard Cain |
NoNah
Marzipan Monkeys Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.05 21:33:00 -
[28]
Great, you have the regeneration rates, you do however not enlist the total amount of hitpoints. Unlike missions, this scenario really requires to survive for a while, not permanently.
This is why the Navy Augoror actually is a viable choise. 200k armor is quite alot, even if you have no regen.
So if the rattlesnake carries 20k shield, say that the opposition do 3-4k dps, 30% avg resists, so in practice the rattlesnake is actually worse off, according to the numbers presented in the thread. Obviously if the less damage they deal, the more important shield recharge will become. 20k dps and theyd alpha the shield recharge to zero anyway. =)
Also note that even though active harderners are pointless, there are passive ones wich might be handy. Just might.
Post count: 125772
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Let Nelass
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Posted - 2007.07.05 21:57:00 -
[29]
Heh. I never even considered passive hardeners
As for hp tanking... I left it out on purpose. As long as you stick with purely how much dps you can absorb, it's a nice simple equation. We all get to be a little lazy sometimes...
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Lux Exterior
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Posted - 2007.07.05 22:15:00 -
[30]
Originally by: NoNah Great, you have the regeneration rates, you do however not enlist the total amount of hitpoints. Unlike missions, this scenario really requires to survive for a while, not permanently.
This is why the Navy Augoror actually is a viable choise. 200k armor is quite alot, even if you have no regen.
So if the rattlesnake carries 20k shield, say that the opposition do 3-4k dps, 30% avg resists, so in practice the rattlesnake is actually worse off, according to the numbers presented in the thread. Obviously if the less damage they deal, the more important shield recharge will become. 20k dps and theyd alpha the shield recharge to zero anyway. =)
Also note that even though active harderners are pointless, there are passive ones wich might be handy. Just might.
It's a fair point, but you could just swap all the T2 cap rechargers on the Rattlesnake for more LSE2's and build a much bigger HP pool without sacrificing much recharge, 200k armour sounds a lot, but with no recharge your lifespan is decidedly finite. Unless the enemy are doing really silly DPS then the shield tank simply won't break, remember recharge doesn't peak until around 30% shields when it is around 2.5 times faster than base.
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