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Kirell
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Posted - 2007.07.12 10:56:00 -
[1]
For some reason server side of CCP seems to be on a constant downswing.
I've been playing for over 2 years and in the last 2 months the servers have been crashing, lagging, desyncing so much that I am seriously considering another game (no you can't have my stuff)
I even caught myself holding my WoW discs (don't worry I managed to stop myself and hid them somewhere safe [like the trash can])
yesterday I found a 7/10 plex which I warped into in a faction fitted ship, with support and we lagged out upon entrance into the plex.
By the time we came around I was at 25% shields, jammed, and webbed. Some people didn't even load. they just crashed out. so I was trying to tank, and barely surviving on my own when finally everything got into range on my ship.
well it was a long struggle (even at 25% shields) but I lost my ship.
I petitioned it and got it back of course, but that's not what should happen. We pay to play, and have been paying for several years. CCP has went from 10k peak users to over 30k which is triple subscribership in the last 2 years.
Which means if they were able to grow and expand EVE with 10k peak users, with 30k they should be so flush with cash they could slam down twice the hardware they have now and STILL have money left over.
So why are the servers lacking so much?
Everywhere on the forums and in chat channels I hear about Desync this, lag that, crashed here.... etc etc. I've no doubt alot of players have left for more "stable" games.
While I am sure CCP is working on finding an "in house" solution to optimizing EVE software side, I think it's time you guys do what your playerbase has been doing since you've gone gold and that's put up the cash.
We've been paying to play and making your company alot of money. I believe it's high time you put some of that money back into hardware (again) to vastly increase game capacity.
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Na'Kunni
Amarr RSP Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.12 11:03:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Na''Kunni on 12/07/2007 11:03:27 alt post ftl
(Im not the OP btw lol, just saying she should psot with the main)
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Jennai
The Silent Rage R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.12 11:05:00 -
[3]
they bought those really expensive RAMSAN things to improve database performance.
they improved blob war performance so it doesn't crash the node as much as it used to.
they moved agents, removed belts, etc so you can actually go through Jita at weekend primetime without getting stuck on the black screen.
it's way better than it used to be, except for the desyncs introduced with the last patch.
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Merchant Banker
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Posted - 2007.07.12 11:06:00 -
[4]
TBH they are constantly upgrade the servers, they added some more last patch IIRC and they are also updating the software constantly.
but more people come in and play the game so its a never ending battle for ccp :(
i tend to avoid playing on peek hours ( or not do much ). just as it gets rather laggy
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Kharadran Sullath
Caldari IntoXication Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.12 11:11:00 -
[5]
I don't have any of these problems, dnd I'm starting to wonder; am I really the only one or is everyone else suffering from teh lag? ------ --Don't get saucy with me Bernaise!-- |
000Hunter000
Gallente Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.07.12 11:19:00 -
[6]
Well i'm not a server wizzard of any kind but i wonder if there is a limit on how many peeps u can put on one.
Now i'm NOT advocating a sharded game at all, but mebbe something like this.
divide the universe in several parts, which are stored on several servers (hell mebbe even put single systems *cough* Jita *cough* on a seperate server.)
If u want to go from one part of the universe to another u have to travel through a special gate (in fact some form of transfer software/hardware thingy to transfer ur char from 1 server to another), if this means u get a load screen (like when u dock undock, log in/log out) that would be ok with me, i mean i don't mind having to wait a few sec for my char to be transferred to another section of the universe as i know it will happen and it's not a random event.
Anyways like i said i'm not a server wizzard by any means so i have no idea if this would be at all possible, but i think it might solve a lot of the server load and other bad things.
If u think this is wrong or impossible then please explain
CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
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LaVista Vista
Red Army Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.12 11:24:00 -
[7]
Originally by: 000Hunter000 Well i'm not a server wizzard of any kind but i wonder if there is a limit on how many peeps u can put on one.
Now i'm NOT advocating a sharded game at all, but mebbe something like this.
divide the universe in several parts, which are stored on several servers (hell mebbe even put single systems *cough* Jita *cough* on a seperate server.)
If u want to go from one part of the universe to another u have to travel through a special gate (in fact some form of transfer software/hardware thingy to transfer ur char from 1 server to another), if this means u get a load screen (like when u dock undock, log in/log out) that would be ok with me, i mean i don't mind having to wait a few sec for my char to be transferred to another section of the universe as i know it will happen and it's not a random event.
Anyways like i said i'm not a server wizzard by any means so i have no idea if this would be at all possible, but i think it might solve a lot of the server load and other bad things.
If u think this is wrong or impossible then please explain
CCP does this already. One node(A blade server) runs one or more systems. Remember when we had queues on gates? You could try to jump into a system which was empty, and get a queue. This is because the node was at 95% or more load, because it runs several solar systems.
Doing it in any other way(Maybe but the way state information is sent, which CCP is working on), any other way would be efficient.
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Dr Slaughter
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.12 11:31:00 -
[8]
Originally by: 000Hunter000 <stuff> and... If u think this is wrong or impossible then please explain
Q. Is there a limit on how many peeps u can put on a server? A. Yes. This is why things like the LV/Goon node crash happened. Although multiple servers make up a node if all the servers in a node are approaching the limit the entire thing comes down.
Q. What can CCP do to increase the capacity of each server? A. Not too much.
My personal suggestions would be for them to:
Stop using Blades as servers in the nodes and start using SERIOUSLY big servers (i.e. 4 way quad core servers with 16Gb+ memory), Evaluate using VmWares Virtual Infrastructure to automatically distribute load between blades and serious servers. Find a way to distribute grid load across multiple servers.
I guess they're looking at all of this already though. Personally I'm focused on RL work and training several lvl 5 skills while they sort things out.
Originally by: fire 59 Arguing with stupid people is like trying to bite your own elbow.
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Anew Business
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Posted - 2007.07.12 11:46:00 -
[9]
Even with some of the server issues, its not like its every 10 minutes this happens. It is somewhat embarrassing I believe for CCP to try to get new or older people to come back to the game. Then the first day they are back the server starts acting up to the point they have to log off.
Its not like we have 100,000 people on at one time. It was only like 16,000 which isnĘt a bad community that is usually constantly on and during a work day no less.
I donĘt mind it that much, but it is annoying and is one of the reasons I originally left the game. The depth of the game and especially the community is what draws me back to the game. A server that ran good would just be a huge plus.
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Necro EvilZombie
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.07.12 11:54:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Necro EvilZombie on 12/07/2007 11:54:14 yes EvE lags, we need way more servers to support this game. also if you are care bearing missions, has anyone noticed how incredibly laggy the system Saila is (the best high sec Caldari Navy Security agent)?
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Fenren
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Posted - 2007.07.12 11:57:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Necro EvilZombie Edited by: Necro EvilZombie on 12/07/2007 11:54:14 yes EvE lags, we need way more servers to support this game. also if you are care bearing missions, has anyone noticed how incredibly laggy the system Saila is (the best high sec Caldari Navy Security agent)?
the whole saila/motsu region is extremly crouded. you can most likely make more isk/h in another system with a lower grade agent. remember that the system sec effects rewards too
Originally by: GM Nova Hello everyone, senior GM Nova here. [...]A month ago we removed 380 billion ISK from the economy. This is not a typo, 380 BILLION ISK[...] We banned well over 100 accounts.
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Vorketh Mordanil
Amarr Brotherhood of Acquisitions
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Posted - 2007.07.12 11:58:00 -
[12]
There's a damned good reason they use Blades, and it's because their servers are in London and they are in Iceland. Blades are so easy to install, that they just have some on site tech pop em in when they need more, and (this is an oversimplification) they are all set. A lot bigger/better server technology can be more difficult to implement, and that would cause a greater need for CCP folks to take their time to fly over to London and oversea things or do it themselves.
Ultimately, that takes both CCP manpower (which is limited) and money from being invested into this game.
Blade server technology is not the problem. There are some inefficiencies in the code. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Dr Slaughter
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.12 12:12:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 12/07/2007 12:14:04
Originally by: Vorketh Mordanil There's a damned good reason they use Blades, and it's because their servers are in London and they are in Iceland. Blades are so easy to install, that they just have some on site tech pop em in when they need more, and (this is an oversimplification) they are all set. A lot bigger/better server technology can be more difficult to implement, and that would cause a greater need for CCP folks to take their time to fly over to London and oversea things or do it themselves.
Ultimately, that takes both CCP manpower (which is limited) and money from being invested into this game.
Blade server technology is not the problem. There are some inefficiencies in the code.
Actually I don't agree with you much at all except for the very last thing you said. Blades don't perform as well as larger servers and it's perfectly possible to make larger servers manageable by installing lights out management cards in them. There are issues with how much space is taken up in the data centre, ease of swapping stuff out, etc. but that shouldn't be an issue as they should easily be able to deal with overall capacity planing.
My point, I suppose, is that until they can distribute grid load across multiple servers, blades will generally under perform when compaired with dedicated multiprocessor, multicore, infiniband based servers.
The 'dammed good reason' for using blades is 'ease of management' The 'dammed good reason' not to use blades is 'poor performance'.
Which is most important to YOU the player?
Originally by: fire 59 Arguing with stupid people is like trying to bite your own elbow.
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Gunstar Zero
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.12 12:26:00 -
[14]
I wonder whether the proxy servers application supports multiple cpus. If it doesn't I wonder if making that happen, then dropping in some nice dual / quad core cpus would help.
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Dr Slaughter
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.12 12:34:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Gunstar Zero I wonder whether the proxy servers application supports multiple cpus. If it doesn't I wonder if making that happen, then dropping in some nice dual / quad core cpus would help.
discussion on this topic
I can't find the most interesting thread about it but somewhere there's a fairly detailed comment by the devs on why individual servers die at a certain point (think memory was one of the key issues) and the difficulties they have distributing load across more than one server.
Originally by: fire 59 Arguing with stupid people is like trying to bite your own elbow.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.12 13:14:00 -
[16]
and CCP response is... ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Dr Slaughter
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.12 14:14:00 -
[17]
Originally by: SiJira and CCP response is...
Can't help myself... SOON(tm)?
Originally by: fire 59 Arguing with stupid people is like trying to bite your own elbow.
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Nicholas Barker
MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2007.07.12 14:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Na'Kunni Edited by: Na''Kunni on 12/07/2007 11:03:27 alt post ftl
(Im not the OP btw lol, just saying she should psot with the main)
that is their main ---
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Lady Natacha
Minmatar Water and Power
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Posted - 2007.07.12 15:23:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Lady Natacha on 12/07/2007 15:31:36 Possible solutions:
1) Dedicate 1 CPU/blade per system until all systems (or most) are dedicated. This will help until enough new players join and everything lags out again. Jita is as good as it will get now unless people are forced to leave.
2) Complete rewrite of the client and server code.
CCP can buy time to work on #2 by adding hardware via #1. In the meantime they can also tune the existing code through small improvements (and sadly nerfs) to attempt to keep on top of things.
It doesn't help things in terms of appearances that CCP releases large and buggy patches right before they grant vacations to most of their staff, but I doubt many people in Iceland are clamoring to take their time off in December or January.
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Dietes Marcellus
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Posted - 2007.07.12 15:45:00 -
[20]
Bah, delete the entire game and recode it from scratch.
hehe :)
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Steini OFSI
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2007.07.12 15:48:00 -
[21]
Maybe, just maybe... they're waiting for a new productline of servers before rewamping the whole thing with a 7 day long downtime.
Just maybe...
Meanwhile ease up the system and make it more fluid and faster.
They have tripled their player base and tripled their content as well, and triple triple is a nipple or a niner
But seriously, even if I have a computer that is barely running on minimiums when upgrading I wait these 2-3 months till the new processor and screencard comes out before wasting my money on a new system to have it last longer.
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PostWithYourMain
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2007.07.12 15:59:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Na'Kunni Edited by: Na''Kunni on 12/07/2007 11:03:27 alt post ftl
(Im not the OP btw lol, just saying she should psot with the main)
Maybe that is a main
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Mari Onette
Amarr Gottland Production Transport Mines
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Posted - 2007.07.12 16:07:00 -
[23]
Desync is caused by a software bug, not a lack of processor power / slow database transactions. Hardware may be an issue in Jita (and really its your own fault for being there), but for the most part it simply isnt the bottleneck that gets people killed as of late.
I'm beginning to think CCP rushed out Revelations 2 because of the goons open letter. They broke a lot more things then usual this patch, and the only reason I can think of for things like the increasing audio problems, desync, standings bugs, is insufficient QA.
CCP needs to realign their devs to focus on fixing existing broken content rather then focusing on adding new content. After nearly a year, anyone with a realtek audio chipset is STILL out of luck for audio support. There is something wrong with that. I would MUCH rather have working audio and no desync's then something like heat.
But thats not what will happen. CCP will continue to add more content and the game will become more and more unplayable due to fundamental systemic problems caused by CCP not fixing whats broken.
------ I am in blood! Stepp'd in so far that, should I wade no more, it would be as tedious as going over. -MacBeth |
000Hunter000
Gallente Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.07.12 17:08:00 -
[24]
Well no matter what happens now, i do think atm we got enough content to last us a bit, time ccp focused a bit more on bug and server fixing perhaps?
CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
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JamesTalon
Caldari Electric Fury Corp
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Posted - 2007.07.12 17:10:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lady Natacha Edited by: Lady Natacha on 12/07/2007 15:31:36 Possible solutions:
1) Dedicate 1 CPU/blade per system until all systems (or most) are dedicated. This will help until enough new players join and everything lags out again. Jita is as good as it will get now unless people are forced to leave.
You realize that they would have to have a huge amount of hardware for that, right? A lot more than is likely affordable, not to mention have the space for. "Return with your shield, or on it." |
Senna Jones
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Posted - 2007.07.12 17:27:00 -
[26]
they constantly upgrade the servers, thats a given
bigger, faster, better
the underlying problem is the amount of information they insist on sending between client and server and the amount of information the server must process in order to do it. Eve is an old design, the basic essence hasn't altered much since launch, other things are bolted on over the top, when the foundation is rotten, it needs replaced/recoded/redesigned.
Thats what the much heralded new client could bring, but it won't, no chance it will, it'll bring new GFX bolted over rotting foundations. Find the underlying issues, redesign the server side of the code, the recode it, don;t bolt fixes over the top and lable them as improvements.
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Lady Natacha
Minmatar Water and Power
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Posted - 2007.07.12 18:11:00 -
[27]
Originally by: JamesTalon
Originally by: Lady Natacha Edited by: Lady Natacha on 12/07/2007 15:31:36 Possible solutions:
1) Dedicate 1 CPU/blade per system until all systems (or most) are dedicated. This will help until enough new players join and everything lags out again. Jita is as good as it will get now unless people are forced to leave.
You realize that they would have to have a huge amount of hardware for that, right? A lot more than is likely affordable, not to mention have the space for.
Yup, it is always much more expensive to throw a lot of hardware at a problem then to fix the code, but it buys you the *time* to fix it especially if you have a bunch of yammering customers who are expected to suffer through it.
I am not suggesting they would go out and install all of this stuff at once, but they are going to have to start dedicating a lot of the busier systems onto their own nodes sooner than later if this is not already happening.
Or they could just start mass nerfing stuff too.
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Malcanis
High4Life Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.12 18:15:00 -
[28]
Kicking out a few hundred mission farmer accounts couldn't hurt either. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.07.12 18:29:00 -
[29]
The desync problems have only been worse since the patch, so when you mention 2 years, you make it sound like its been here forever. Eve has not gotten worse and worse in these two years, its gotten better. But yes, currently there is problems. It usually is after major patches.
Personally, when im away from Eve for a while, it helps to see how amazing the game really is when I come back. Its easy to not see the good sides when you see "her" every day, know what I mean? ---
Originally by: CCP Wrangler You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
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Ddredar
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Posted - 2007.07.12 18:47:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lady Natacha Edited by: Lady Natacha on 12/07/2007 15:31:36 1) Dedicate 1 CPU/blade per system until all systems (or most) are dedicated. This will help until enough new players join and everything lags out again. Jita is as good as it will get now unless people are forced to leave.
If only this was possable. However, the cost of electricity to do this would put Eve in the hole in just a few months.
Quote: GOTTA HAVE MORE COWBELL BABY!!!
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