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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.28 23:16:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Acidictadpole The insecurity of using Jalipo that is most obvious is of course a free 200 pts to anyone who registers, meaning all that is needed is access to the internet (yahoo.com) and the knowhow on how to create a free email address. You then recieve 200 points and can watch an episode. Rinse Repeat.
Heard of Mailinator or 2prong? Don't even need to register a free email...
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Aya
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.07.29 10:42:00 -
[62]
Why not run it like www.mlb.com
You can pay per episode or join for say 30 a month (1dollar/episode) and then rewatch all present and past episodes.
MLB.com has a thing where you can get all games streaming over the internet for 140? a year. Or you can indivudally watch one game for like 3 dollars. If you pay the 140 however you can always go back and watch any past games as they archive everything.
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Acidictadpole
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.29 15:48:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Acidictadpole on 29/07/2007 15:49:32
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Acidictadpole The insecurity of using Jalipo that is most obvious is of course a free 200 pts to anyone who registers, meaning all that is needed is access to the internet (yahoo.com) and the knowhow on how to create a free email address. You then recieve 200 points and can watch an episode. Rinse Repeat.
Heard of Mailinator or 2prong? Don't even need to register a free email...
Is that supposed to make Jalipo sound like it's remotely better? If you wanted to watch a free episode you would just need about 5 minutes of extra time and there you go.
And for those who are thinking this, I am a network security student, I don't do these things to cheat people out of money. I do this so that people can realize insecurities in the programs / businesses and either fix it or take their business elsewhere. I think that should be done in this case since Jalipo is obviouly easily exploited.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.30 05:09:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Acidictadpole[quote=Dark Shikari
Originally by: Acidictadpole The insecurity of using Jalipo that is most obvious is of course a free 200 pts to anyone who registers, meaning all that is needed is access to the internet (yahoo.com) and the knowhow on how to create a free email address. You then recieve 200 points and can watch an episode. Rinse Repeat.
Heard of Mailinator or 2prong? Don't even need to register a free email...
Is that supposed to make Jalipo sound like it's remotely better? If you wanted to watch a free episode you would just need about 5 minutes of extra time and there you go.
That's my point, you don't even need 5 minutes, because there are services which let you use emails without registering them.
I use them all the time. And 2prong is unstoppable because it changes domain every two days.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
The Provisioner
Amarr Neutral Ground
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Posted - 2007.07.30 10:56:00 -
[65]
I just looked at 2prong.com - it ran a script that tried to access my clipboard - hardly re-assuring behaviour. --------------------------------- |
Acidictadpole
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.30 12:06:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Acidictadpole on 30/07/2007 12:10:40
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Acidictadpole[quote=Dark Shikari
Originally by: Acidictadpole The insecurity of using Jalipo that is most obvious is of course a free 200 pts to anyone who registers, meaning all that is needed is access to the internet (yahoo.com) and the knowhow on how to create a free email address. You then recieve 200 points and can watch an episode. Rinse Repeat.
Heard of Mailinator or 2prong? Don't even need to register a free email...
Is that supposed to make Jalipo sound like it's remotely better? If you wanted to watch a free episode you would just need about 5 minutes of extra time and there you go.
That's my point, you don't even need 5 minutes, because there are services which let you use emails without registering them.
I use them all the time. And 2prong is unstoppable because it changes domain every two days.
Ah, I misunderstood the type of sites these were. I thought they were Jalipo-like sites rather than an email trickster site.
It might come in handy in the future ^.^ Thanks.
As for how secure it is; yahoo, hotmail, gmail, zapo? and a lot of others are common knowledge (I didn't know about this 2prong doohicky yet) so it pretty much opens the exploit to 95% of the internet, even though much much less will actually use your service.
When your product is available to be exploited by more people than who is interested in using it, you have a BIG problem.
EDIT: I tried the two types of sites you used up there, and when trying to read them it just becomes a garbled message, probably due to a certain formatting.
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Death Kill
Caldari direkte
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:00:00 -
[67]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
Even **** sites lets you download
Originally by: myself The Amarr templar joke is a joke stupid people can laugh at. Its the joke any dumb person can laugh at.
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Saladin
Minmatar Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.31 17:28:00 -
[68]
I don't know what kind of pay per view you have Wrangler, but mine lets me watch the movie I ordered over and over again for 3 days. But hey, maybe that forum of antiquated technology is beyond the reach of CCP or EvE TV. You came to the wrong forum with that ppv analogy. We are not tech-illiterate fools here. ----
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RedLion
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.31 17:55:00 -
[69]
I wonder about the legal aspect of this...
sure PPV is legal, but I don't think EVETV flags it enough that you only pay for 1 time, since the common form for pay TV on internet is that you can rewatch old stuff you have bought (or if it's an active subscription you can see all new and old content).
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Acidictadpole
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.31 20:19:00 -
[70]
Originally by: RedLion I wonder about the legal aspect of this...
sure PPV is legal, but I don't think EVETV flags it enough that you only pay for 1 time, since the common form for pay TV on internet is that you can rewatch old stuff you have bought (or if it's an active subscription you can see all new and old content).
When you click on a purchase link it tells you that they charge you per minute viewed. If you watch it again you are viewing it for more minutes. So the legal part is on their side, you get what you pay for.
I just want them to realise that using Jalipo is a terrible idea as it's service is farthest from the best thing that EVETv can do to fund itself.
I would be interested to see the details of their deal with Jalipo, it could be that even though the free emails are able to watch free shows they could still be getting paid by Jalipo per minute (So why would they care whether the email was made just for that single episode or not). If so, all we need to do is constantly do that and it will eventually run Jalipo out of business, as they will be giving out money while not recieving the amount required to pay off.
Again, depending on the confidentiality of their agreement, (perhaps it's a general one for all of jalipo?) i'de like to see what EVETV gets out of it.
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joahn
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Posted - 2007.08.01 13:36:00 -
[71]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
Just for the record pay per veiw gives you access to said movie for 24 hours before you hav eto pay again. well at least in the US
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RedLion
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.01 21:01:00 -
[72]
It's the US, It's most of europe... that's why I don't think the way they do it now is legal.
Because they don't flag their poor customer treatment better :P
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The Provisioner
Amarr Neutral Ground
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Posted - 2007.08.01 21:45:00 -
[73]
Edited by: The Provisioner on 01/08/2007 21:46:23 [PPV] Pay per view is a generic marketing term. It can cover strict pay-per-view, like Jalipo, or it can mean 'pay-per-period-but-watch-as-often-as-you-want-in-that-period', like some cable channels. Hotel PPV, if a you buy a film via hotel in-house cable, is per-film, per example. If you try to rewatch, it cuts out after the first few minutes. Just because fred bloggs ltd use it in the less-strict way doesnt mean other companies need to adopt that definition. There is no legal ground for disssent.
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Acidictadpole
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.02 04:33:00 -
[74]
I find it funny that you guys are still arguing what Pay-Per-View actually means. Considering it's just a marketing term for something that you pay to watch, which all companies use since it's so well known.
In MY Opinion, PPV is exactly what the title says, you Pay everytime Per View. Which is exactly what Jalipo does, the real reason that companies allow you to keep things for 24 hours is because of possible system failure/reason may come up why you can't watch it. They just do it to avoid getting thousands of customer service calls from those people who had their cable cut out, got interupted by phone/door/kid/whatever, or any other reason they may need to start the movie again. It doesn't cost the company any extra to hold it over for 24 hours, and what are the chances of you watching a movie twice in 24 hours anyway? They don't lose anything from it, except the CS calls (which technically is a gain, since they don't need to worry about that crap).
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Lydia Browm
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.02 15:42:00 -
[75]
I had an idea, remembering something from a browser based game i used to play, which after all the costs of servers etc etc, the developers (5 of them) made about ú1000 each a week.
Simple to view this you mkae it so that you open a new window and stick 3 adds on it which change for an example of this play the free version of runescape. There is a ad and after a while another ad automatically takes its place, so its free, the EVE team make there money and everyone is happy. ___________________________________________ Cookies if you hijack or sign my sig. There tasty... |
Blue dabadee
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Posted - 2007.08.03 14:50:00 -
[76]
Paying per episode would appease those who don't want to pay to watch the same episode twice.
Episode 7 comes out. Person logs into thier Jalipoo and pays for episode 7. Their account will show they have purchased the right to view that episode whenever they want, but not to download.
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RedLion
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.06 12:48:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Acidictadpole Edited by: Acidictadpole on 02/08/2007 04:49:10 I find it funny that you guys are still arguing what Pay-Per-View actually means. Considering it's just a marketing term for something that you pay to watch, which all companies use since it's so well known.
In MY Opinion, PPV is exactly what the title says, you Pay everytime Per View. Which is exactly what Jalipo does, the real reason that companies allow you to keep things for 24 hours is because of possible system failure/reason may come up why you can't watch it. They just do it to avoid getting thousands of customer service calls from those people who had their cable cut out, got interupted by phone/door/kid/whatever, or any other reason they may need to start the movie again. It doesn't cost the company any extra to hold it over for 24 hours, and what are the chances of you watching a movie twice in 24 hours anyway? They don't lose anything from it, except the CS calls (which technically is a gain, since they don't need to worry about that crap).
Quote:
sure PPV is legal, but I don't think EVETV flags it enough that you only pay for 1 time, since the common form for pay TV on internet is that you can rewatch old stuff you have bought (or if it's an active subscription you can see all new and old content).
I don't understand how you can even come to the conclusion that something like this can be illegal. They aren't offering a service that let's you rewatch stuff, sure it's misleading the way they conveniently leave out the fact it's not like conventional movie sites. But I would like you to sit down and watch some commercials on television, especially infomercials and the odd banking one, and tell me if they say anything bad about their product/service.
Notice all the happy stuff they tell you? And there's no sad details? Yea, you got it, that's business. Read the fine print and realise all the crappy stuff about the product they have to legally tell you, but don't want to turn you away before you even spend money coming to investigate it.
I think the term / phrase I would like you to learn is "Buyer Beware", repeat it at night if you have to. But just because you spend your money on something that may not be truthful or completely legal, doesn't make it 100% definite you're getting your money back. The other party may end up getting caught eventually, but it was your fault for getting into the venture, and you could pay for it.
Do not pay for anything until you know the full extent of the product. Jalipo offers a service, that service allows you to pay per minute of their streaming bandwidth, which means that you pay for every minute that you watch the video they are hosting. So technically, those people who are downloading it / ripping it to rewatch later are breaking their ToS (I didn't read it, but I would be sure they would have something about it in there) because they aren't paying to watch minutes of a show they got from their site.
Once again EVETV.. Jalipo seems like a terrible service, if you are looking at trying to improve, I sit @ coldfront as Acidictadpole. If you PM me I will always get it, and will respond eventually. I can offer suggestions and let you know why they work above other methods, and I can also tell you which things would be bad for you as a show when it comes to propagating your videos.
It doesn't even stand PPV :)
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Dark Shikari
Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.08.06 13:07:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Blue dabadee Paying per episode would appease those who don't want to pay to watch the same episode twice.
Episode 7 comes out. Person logs into thier Jalipoo and pays for episode 7. Their account will show they have purchased the right to view that episode whenever they want, but not to download.
Of course, but Jalipo won't allow that.
Solution is obvious: dump Jalipo.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Danzig256k
Caldari Mortal Devastating Kin
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Posted - 2007.08.06 14:19:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Danzig256k on 06/08/2007 14:23:24
Originally by: CCP Wrangler As Xyliana has posted, many times now, they are looking into other ways to get you EVE TV.
Regardless, the bottom line is that EVE TV costs money and that money has to come from somewhere. Maybe there's a better way than the current one, but at the end of the day you will have to pay for EVE TV somehow, or there won't be an EVE TV.
here's a thought, how about tacking on a buck or 2 to the subscription price for any user that wants to view the evetv segments. i for one wouldn't miss the extra buck. just make an option in the acct management section for "EveTV subscription", then all proceeds from that option could go into the EveTV budget
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Sazkyen
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Posted - 2007.08.06 17:21:00 -
[80]
Why not include EVE-TV in the subscription on an optional basis?
- 1 month of subscription: 14.95Ç - 1 month of subscription + EVETV: 17.95Ç (Dunno, it's a random sum) etc.
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The Provisioner
Amarr Neutral Ground
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Posted - 2007.08.06 20:28:00 -
[81]
EveTV isnt the same company as CCP. In order to do any sort of tie-in with subscription, there'd be lots of complicated inter-company accounts stuff going on. As MMMP is unrelated, I dont think that'd ever happen. --------------------------------- |
Lord XSiV
Amarr Digital Research - Omega Protocol
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Posted - 2007.08.06 21:59:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Acidictadpole Edited by: Acidictadpole on 29/07/2007 15:49:32
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Acidictadpole The insecurity of using Jalipo that is most obvious is of course a free 200 pts to anyone who registers, meaning all that is needed is access to the internet (yahoo.com) and the knowhow on how to create a free email address. You then recieve 200 points and can watch an episode. Rinse Repeat.
Heard of Mailinator or 2prong? Don't even need to register a free email...
Is that supposed to make Jalipo sound like it's remotely better? If you wanted to watch a free episode you would just need about 5 minutes of extra time and there you go.
And for those who are thinking this, I am a network security student, I don't do these things to cheat people out of money. I do this so that people can realize insecurities in the programs / businesses and either fix it or take their business elsewhere. I think that should be done in this case since Jalipo is obviouly easily exploited.
Well now, it is time for a seasoned professional to back the student up.
He is correct on all points in the posts he has made. The lack of security employed by the service provider at the very basic foundation principles (authentication, authroization, access control) has negated any other security mechanisms that have been implemented at the higher levels. Basically, anyone with access to the internet can just create free disposable email accounts and watch as much as they want. Only drawback is the inconvieniance factor which CCP/Jalipo failed to properly estimate with the charges for the service.
Now the actual root of the problem. What should be a free service paid for by sponsors is twisted around to charging the marketbase to keep it alive. Wrong. Bad for business, proven unsuccessful in the past many times by various business ventures. The only time it does work is for live sporting events and Eve Tv can not be considered 'live' as only the tourney is actually live. So fix that problem. Let Eve Tv be free and get some sponsors. Like I said before, Intel, AMD, Nvidia; all those guys love target advertising.
If you don't start going down this path soon, Eve Tv is doomed to fail. I don't think any of us want that so maybe take some advice from those in the know.
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Acidictadpole
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.07 03:27:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Lord XSiV
Originally by: Acidictadpole Edited by: Acidictadpole on 29/07/2007 15:49:32
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Acidictadpole The insecurity of using Jalipo that is most obvious is of course a free 200 pts to anyone who registers, meaning all that is needed is access to the internet (yahoo.com) and the knowhow on how to create a free email address. You then recieve 200 points and can watch an episode. Rinse Repeat.
Heard of Mailinator or 2prong? Don't even need to register a free email...
Is that supposed to make Jalipo sound like it's remotely better? If you wanted to watch a free episode you would just need about 5 minutes of extra time and there you go.
And for those who are thinking this, I am a network security student, I don't do these things to cheat people out of money. I do this so that people can realize insecurities in the programs / businesses and either fix it or take their business elsewhere. I think that should be done in this case since Jalipo is obviouly easily exploited.
Well now, it is time for a seasoned professional to back the student up.
He is correct on all points in the posts he has made. The lack of security employed by the service provider at the very basic foundation principles (authentication, authroization, access control) has negated any other security mechanisms that have been implemented at the higher levels. Basically, anyone with access to the internet can just create free disposable email accounts and watch as much as they want. Only drawback is the inconvieniance factor which CCP/Jalipo failed to properly estimate with the charges for the service.
Now the actual root of the problem. What should be a free service paid for by sponsors is twisted around to charging the marketbase to keep it alive. Wrong. Bad for business, proven unsuccessful in the past many times by various business ventures. The only time it does work is for live sporting events and Eve Tv can not be considered 'live' as only the tourney is actually live. So fix that problem. Let Eve Tv be free and get some sponsors. Like I said before, Intel, AMD, Nvidia; all those guys love target advertising.
If you don't start going down this path soon, Eve Tv is doomed to fail. I don't think any of us want that so maybe take some advice from those in the know.
Nice to see someone else who sees the actual problem instead of debating what the legal definition of pay-per-view is.
I myself would like to know from any of the EVETV reps if this post is actually getting any recognition at all, or whether our pleas are falling on deaf ears. It would really be unfortunate if you guys had to cancel because some people with working tried and tested solutions to the issues at hand are being ignored.
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RedLion
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.07 11:50:00 -
[84]
However the legal definition is important, however since EVE is a small game compared to for example WoW it's noone who really cares.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Gallenteans must be destroyed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
Acidictadpole
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.07 11:56:00 -
[85]
Originally by: RedLion However the legal definition is important, however since EVE is a small game compared to for example WoW it's noone who really cares.
Jalipo in no way that I can tell claims to be a PPV site, the people who gave it that label are probably the ones who argued about it.
From Jalipo's site:
Originally by: "Jalipo's Site"
Jalipo is the first online marketplace for TV and video. It lets content owners use the Internet to offer their channels, video-on-demand and live events direct to viewers around the world.
Nothing in there claims PPV, and nothing about pay-per-view on their site whatsoever.
So perhaps it is important in the grand scheme of things so you guys can sue other companies who don't live up to the name of PPV (doubt it tbh). But in this thread it is entirely irrelevant.
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Ezoran DuBlaidd
Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's
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Posted - 2007.08.07 12:20:00 -
[86]
i guess my question about the payperview, not being able to re-view what you've already paid for, etc is -- is it worth a couple of dollars to watch? 30,000+ times $2 = a nice little bit of moneys.
if you have correspondents who are having to go to the forums to get information from random-joe players; then, what am i paying to watch?
is it a bikini clad hottie re-telling me what i already know from reading the forums and she gets feather tickled by another bikini clad hottie?
if it's just two dudes reading to me what i've read on the forums; then, i can dress my hottie wife in a bikini and have her read the forums to me and probably enjoy that a tad more.
yes, i know you can get free credits to watch an episode. if in good faith, you can't re-watch what you've seen already; then why would i want to waste my free view on two dudes reading items to me that i already know from ingame, or from reading the forums myself?
if there's no re-viewing, then I'd like to request that the episodes that feature nothing other than scantily clad gorgeous women-folk be marked as such and then I'll know which episode i want to see for free, one time.
thanks in advance. |
Acidictadpole
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.07 13:20:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd i guess my question about the payperview, not being able to re-view what you've already paid for, etc is -- is it worth a couple of dollars to watch? 30,000+ times $2 = a nice little bit of moneys.
if you have correspondents who are having to go to the forums to get information from random-joe players; then, what am i paying to watch?
is it a bikini clad hottie re-telling me what i already know from reading the forums and she gets feather tickled by another bikini clad hottie?
if it's just two dudes reading to me what i've read on the forums; then, i can dress my hottie wife in a bikini and have her read the forums to me and probably enjoy that a tad more.
yes, i know you can get free credits to watch an episode. if in good faith, you can't re-watch what you've seen already; then why would i want to waste my free view on two dudes reading items to me that i already know from ingame, or from reading the forums myself?
if there's no re-viewing, then I'd like to request that the episodes that feature nothing other than scantily clad gorgeous women-folk be marked as such and then I'll know which episode i want to see for free, one time.
thanks in advance.
Heh, they actually bring in well-known players for interviews and stuff. Although one of the presenters could be considered a "bikini clad hottie", from what I've seen it can be pretty informational (all the episodes so far seem to have good reviews from what I've read). I've only seen two myself though.
My big idea
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FarScape III
Journey On Squad
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Posted - 2007.08.07 16:55:00 -
[88]
I want to watch some of the episodes again because there is allot of info to take in, but do not want to pay again.
TV news keeps repeating the same stories and i pay the same amount every month for cable TV. ***
A Minmater City... Cool! |
Popsikle
Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.08.08 06:58:00 -
[89]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler It's like pay per view, you pay to watch the movie, if you want to watch it again you have to pay again. Which is just what you'd have to do if you go rent a movie.
I know you guys might have different kinds of pay per view, but that's really not the point.
No matter what pay per view you have, theres always a f'in VCR to record it to. ____ <t20> i want to be in a manager potition at Hooters <SaraDawn> Garthagk, do you have it up ? <Garthagk> I can get it up anytime. |
Abram
Caldari Master Miners Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.08 08:21:00 -
[90]
I agree with the pay per view point of view, it being like a movie etc but lets not loose site of the fact this is a "news channel" Their is no news channel in the world accept EVE TV that is pay per view, yes i agree with movies and major sport events this is acceptable but doing this for a news channel is not.
Keep stating your point of views and arguments people it will force change in time otherwise they will loose credit subscribers.
BTW i really enjoy EVE TV and my respect to those who organise it.
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