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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Sandra Jones
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Posted - 2007.07.18 23:43:00 -
[31]
Dear CCP, please make all Weapons automatic inactive as long as there are Mining Lasers/Stripminers set to active in a System, so we poor poor carebears can mine 23/7 in all 0.0 Systems...
go highsec carebearing if you cant defend your carebears
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Sandra Jones
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Posted - 2007.07.18 23:52:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Sandra Jones on 18/07/2007 23:51:53
Originally by: HeadWar
I'd say it's a lot more common with either a BS or a HAC/Recon/Command ship, neither of which can be easily taken care of with five drones.
and none of 'em can warp cloaked, so how does this thread even apply to 'em?
Originally by: HeadWar
(Unless of course it's a Covert Ops, but then it won't be that ship that attacks, it'll only be the warp-in point for the gank squad that enters system.)
0.0 Survival, Lesson 1 a) if mining in a system, have a scout at least in all neighbouring systems, be on TS, watch Intel Channels. have a defense gang ready. b) if ratting in a system, have a scout at least in all neighbouring systems, be on TS, watch Intel Channels closely, fit for PVP, be ganged up
If there happens to be a gang one system ahead that jumps in and waprs to a covert ops in your belt - then you got a intel problem, not a cov ops one.
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Ansuru Starlancer
The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.07.19 03:51:00 -
[33]
I bookmarked a succinct and to the point remark that I would have difficulty topping on this matter. Here's the quote:
Originally by: Neuromandis
Originally by: Blue Pixie
As I said before, either you believe it's reasonable for players to take advantage of stealth to attack when you least expect it, or you don't. It's fairly obvious you don't think it's reasonable. Why not just admit it?
It is reasonable to take advantage of stealth to attack an unprepared foe. It is unreasonable to be immune to attack from ANY foe yourself while waiting for a suitable target. The second is A LOT stronger than the first - no aggressor should ever be immune to aggressing, end of story.
What he said.
And yes, I loves my recons (when I can afford them -_-)
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MonwrathDisortium
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.07.19 03:56:00 -
[34]
Using this same logic it would seem to me that you would be opposed to people going afk in pos'es and stations as well. "OMG there is a neutral in the system, I cant carebear, He is at a pos, what if he comes after me, I am incapable of moving on, NERFNERFNERF.
Deal with it, everyone else does.
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Verite Rendition
Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.
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Posted - 2007.07.19 06:17:00 -
[35]
Originally by: MonwrathDisortium Using this same logic it would seem to me that you would be opposed to people going afk in pos'es and stations as well. "OMG there is a neutral in the system, I cant carebear, He is at a pos, what if he comes after me, I am incapable of moving on, NERFNERFNERF.
Deal with it, everyone else does.
POSs aren't a big deal. If the enemy has a POS in your system and you're not destroying it, you have bigger problems. Stations are the same thing really since it's easy to see if they've undocked(and they're not going to be redocking). ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic |
sakana
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.07.19 07:25:00 -
[36]
perhaps you could nerf cloaking on ships that are not designed to fit them... ------------
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doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.19 07:36:00 -
[37]
Originally by: sakana perhaps you could nerf cloaking on ships that are not designed to fit them...
That's one thing, and arguably much more reasonable than ships with very limited purpose beyond doing exactly what the OP is upset about. being "in ur base killin ur doods" is the whole freaking point.
Personally I think non-covops cloaking ships are just fine, I kill the revered cloaking ravens of fountain frequently with little to no issues. You just need 1) patience 2) be scary good at stalking targets
Steel Rat > if they only knew we make this **** up as we go |
MrTriggerHappy
Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.19 07:42:00 -
[38]
Originally by: doctorstupid2 You just need 1) patience 2) be scary good at stalking targets
Or to ***** off the old chesnut
"Good things come to those who wait" --------------------------------
My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance |
Tekumze Wolf
Minmatar Blueprint Haus Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.19 10:59:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Tekumze Wolf on 19/07/2007 11:02:24 As Rendition said POS and stations are not an issue. If you're ratting in a system with hostile POS you're either a bait or have a deathwish. You can see people being docked in a station. They aren't exactly "cloaked".
Deal with it? You can't really. That's the point. You can find ways around it (like going somewhere else) but you can't deal with it.
Be in gang or whatever: Yea sure. A gang of 5 ratting BS in a system is a big threat to 5 recons. Most of the time they won't even fire a shot as they will be damped. And please don't try to tell me that keeping all your online PvPers in a ratting system(or close by) to catch a cloaker is a good idea. There's not many people willing to just sit there for an extended period of time for the odd chance that cloaker is online and getting ready to strike. I don't play the game to sit around waiting for somebody to come back from afk.
Reading about local and how all are seen there. Maybe there's an easier fix to all this without nerfing the cloak. Just make people that haven't moved their mouse in game for over an our vanish from local.
Problem solved. You know cloakers are there. You see them online. But they are not showing in local so they are afk.
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fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.19 11:07:00 -
[40]
There is grounds for change i'm sorry to say. The amount of farmers who ss and cloak in space is just getting silly now and there is NO way of getting them without blind luck, ie thee warp scrambled by rats, just warped in , get caught on roid etc.
Make T2 probes able to find the filthy farmers, or make cloaks only viable on cloaking ships. Maybe make all weapon systems offline on a non cloaking specced ship so that there is a negative etc.
All the afk cloaking fanbois will whine that it's not fair bla bla bla but if you are behind the wheel, you can move around still and not be caught and if you were going to go afk overnight, you would log anyway yeah ^^
Something that does need fixing i'm sorry to say. Just heavily penalise non cloak specced ships ( not by a targetting delay, i mean something painful like all weapons offlined, squirm piggy squirm )
GOONIES = OMNIPOTENCE INCARNATE |
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Tekumze Wolf
Minmatar Blueprint Haus Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.19 11:18:00 -
[41]
Your grounds for the nerf are entirely different.
Nerfing a cloak would not solve your problems though. All they need is SS and log. You'd have to be lucky to probe them out in time.
Even taking their "logout" tactic you'd still have trouble getting them if they keep moving between several safespots.
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fire 59
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.19 11:23:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Tekumze Wolf Your grounds for the nerf are entirely different.
Nerfing a cloak would not solve your problems though. All they need is SS and log. You'd have to be lucky to probe them out in time.
Even taking their "logout" tactic you'd still have trouble getting them if they keep moving between several safespots.
AAIIEE . Heh, good point though, hopefully make npcs cause aggro ^^ (j/k )
GOONIES = OMNIPOTENCE INCARNATE |
3ungle
Antipodean inc. Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.19 14:53:00 -
[43]
Edited by: 3ungle on 19/07/2007 14:56:03 What goes around comes around. Deal with it.
Perhaps CCP could look at once again, another extention on POS's that could work as a system wide or 200Au Radius EMP so to speak that knocks all cloaked ships out of cloak for say 45 seconds. That way if they are truly AFK in the system they wont re-cloak and wallah, you can probe and remove the threat. Making cloaking ships scannable is destroying their only real "special" ability, well you could still nerf it so you cannot scan covert ops cloaks.
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Red Harvest
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Posted - 2007.07.19 15:26:00 -
[44]
Having cloaked hostiles in the system is nothing but a nuisance if your mates are prepared to help as soon as you are atttacked by the cloakers.
The only thing that bothers me is that there is no way to counter those cloaks! You have to wait for the cloaker to engange or do something stupid to have a chance to kill him. The increasing numbers of ppl fitting a cloak gets annoying if even t1 frigs have them fitted there really is something wrong.
I think we really need some advanced scanner array or probe that has a good chance to find cloaked ships. (recons are like submarines and those can be found with activ sonar np too)
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hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.19 15:58:00 -
[45]
/me waves to Tekumze Wolf in local channel "hi there"
Off-topic: You started it, every action has a reaction (although the reaction can sometimes be 10 times as big )
On-topic: I agree that AFK cloaking is overpowered and needs to go. Like you said "playing" the game while AFK is just wrong. Same applies to people hauling tons of stuff in freighters AFK in empire making billions in profit per run, while affectively not doing anything at all. Or people warping into a mission in a perma-tank, getting all agro, releasing the drones and going AFK just to come back later to a cleared out stage. There are a lot of things like this in EvE, and they all have to go. But lets focus on AFK cloaking.
The problem with AFK cloaking is that currently cloaking is "maintenance free". You click it once and that's it. No need to reactivate, no cap use, nothing.
Simplest solution to fix this is: make it so that cap does not recharge while cloaked and cloaking takes a tiny bit of cap every minute or whatever. Adjust it so that you could stay cloaked for an hour or something before you cap completely drains. This way, the cloaker will need to go to a safespot once in a while, uncloak and recharge his cap. At this time he could be probed out, so he will have to be cautious at all times.
This also puts a plug on cloaking ratters. They could only stay cloaked for so long before losing it. Someone that wants to get them will have a chance to do so, while they (the ratters) will still have protection from the random pirate flying by, as those usually won't stick around for an hour just to wait for them to lose cloak. This also works in favor of single parents (i've heard them complain that they often need to warp to SS and cloak, in order to take care of the children), cause it will give them enough time to take care of their stuff before the cap dries up
Other solution is already in-works by CCP: make cloakers probable. Maybe have another "special" probe like the Observator probes (but with short range) that has lvl5 skill requirement. It was already in the patch notes.... but was pulled just before deployment. This will not affect active recon/covert-ops pilots, and they will be constantly moving around (and probing itself does not decloak you). By the time someone gets a probe result on them, they will be out of decloak range. However this will solve the issue with AFK cloakers.
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Negotiate with them
*wink wink*
== Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
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Red Harvest
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Posted - 2007.07.19 17:38:00 -
[46]
Nice idea, nerfing the cloaks with adding some cap needs for running them + stopping cap recharge. An activ player shouldnt be bothered by it all that much and the afk ones have 15-30min to come back or face the consequences.
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Nightbird
Neogen Industries Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.19 22:18:00 -
[47]
(/me also waves at Hydra ppl in local)
Ah'm in yur bace, killin' ur doodz!
But on a more serious note, force recon cloaking is not a major issue. This is what they were designed for.
However... non-covert ops cloaks should require heavy water to use.... which will eliminate the "cloaking ratters" problem.
And to Hydra.... you were in our capital system first... playing the cloak and AFK game. Like it or not, you started it. You didn't see us starting whine threads on the forums when you did it to us :)
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Balendin
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Posted - 2007.07.19 22:18:00 -
[48]
Hydra complains about the afk cloakers after sitting 2 hydra members in sparta space for 2 weeks straight! Sparta returns the favor by putting 15 recons in hydra space ( not afk) and rdy to kill. Try negotiatng a way out of your currenyt dilema instead of crying on the forums.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.07.19 22:27:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 19/07/2007 22:28:02
Originally by: hydraSlav
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Negotiate with them
*wink wink*
It really can be that simple sometimes, yes?
*reads the previous couple of posts and nods* <-----------> Factional Warfare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
Tekumze Wolf
Minmatar Blueprint Haus Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.20 05:48:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Tekumze Wolf on 20/07/2007 05:53:15 I don't really care who started it. AFK threat is still wrong in my book.
And if you read my first post I changed it so the idea I like now is to just remove afk people from local so you know they are afk.
Solves all problems for me (and for you) and it doesn't really nerf anything.
I don't care much about afk hauling. When you do it you're in space visible to everybody and slow as hell (the 15km warp in). Not to mention that people sometimes make mistakes and end up slowboating through lowsec or even 0.0 :)
Oh and BTW. I am not really that bothered by you guys. You never seem to "attack" when I am at the keyboard or in a system I am in.
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Beastofburden
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Posted - 2007.07.20 06:49:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Beastofburden on 20/07/2007 06:49:49 This boils down to 2 major points:
- 0.0 should be unsafe, and you need to have friends etc. around, UNLESS you are a cloaker, then 0.0 should be as safe as an empire station (i earned it, i spent 200m !) - anyone should be forced to be careful and watch everything all the time, UNLESS he¦s a cloaker, who must never be bothered with even beeing anyway near his PC (he spent 200m, after all)
Basically, those that release the sadest whines around here are the guys cloaking in systems for hours w/o being at the PC, because the idea of having to actually PLAY the game to do something is way too stressful.
Imho, the whole cloaking ECM idea should be tied to sov levels. After all, if an Alliance has Sov 3, you can¦t expect to be invulnerable to them because you can cloak. I¦m all for cloaking and stuff, but let¦s be reasonable - demanding the right to be invulnerable in 0.0 space, even in sov 3 & 4 systems is simply BS.
Give the Alliances a POS based tool with sov 3 requirement, which can scan cloakers under certain circumstances, for example "chance over time at same spot", maybe with some additions so moving at 0.5m/s etc. won¦t render it useless. That would force cloakers to actually be playing their chars to be safe without breaking cloak-ship-classes, while at the same time making tougher for people that try to "abuse" the benefits of a cloak on a HAC or BS. Or do you really want to tell me moving your ship every 15/30/whatever minutes destroys the use of a recon ?!
With a choice like that, no real recon pilot that has an idea of what his role is will be hurt, let alone complain w/o outing himself as afk-lamer.
Go camp unclaimed systems, they are really 0.0, but a sov 3+ system should be a slightly more challenging field to spy on.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Riggers Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.07.20 10:05:00 -
[52]
Must say I love the cap use idea. Best solution offered yet.
I see the cloaked ship as Submarines in many ways. They are hard to detect and they allways have the element of surprise. So, any lone straggler will ofcourse be attacked and thats how it should be. The allies in WWII used convoys to protect the ships, because they could not see the subs.
in eve you got the advantage of knowing there is a "sub" in the system, you also know how many subs there is and can therefor gather an appropiate convoy force. If there is only 1 "sub", gang up with a friend and both of you go rat. If there are 3 "subs" get 3 friends.
But the WWII Submarines also needed to go up to the surface to get air from time to time and for repairs. That is the most dangerous time for a Submarine, as it will be visible by planes (probes in EVE terms).
Cons and pro's in EVE with the freezed cap: A BS with a cloak move slowly. If the hunters know the approximate location of the cloaker, they can just go there and wait him out or search that area. The cloaker sill has the option to try and run/warp somewhere. Advanced cloaking ships, like Recon and Covert Ops, can just warp cloaked and be even more happy.
Or even better, just remove local. If you don't know there are 7 cloaked AFK recon's in your system, you will happily rat along and curse you bad luck when one of them suddenly decloaks and kills you. Which you didn't have any problems with in the first place
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hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.20 13:17:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes I see the cloaked ship as Submarines in many ways.
Haha, when i was writing my ideas on stopping cap recharge while cloaked and making cloaking slowly use up cap, i was thinking of submarines myself, but wasn't sure how often they had to resurface for air, so didn't mention it
== Above comments are my personal views Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
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Giamilton
Synergy Evolved Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.20 16:00:00 -
[54]
Originally by: hydraSlav
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes I see the cloaked ship as Submarines in many ways.
Haha, when i was writing my ideas on stopping cap recharge while cloaked and making cloaking slowly use up cap, i was thinking of submarines myself, but wasn't sure how often they had to resurface for air, so didn't mention it
I was actually thinking of them needing to come near the surface to start their diesel engines to recharge their batteries. That is a good idea, the cap recharging seems like it allows everyone to do what they want to do while eliminating the metagaming aspect of attacking someone at the station, cloaking then off to the Pub for 4 hours,
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Paddlefoot Aeon
Neogen Industries Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.20 16:21:00 -
[55]
Originally by: hydraSlav
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes I see the cloaked ship as Submarines in many ways.
Haha, when i was writing my ideas on stopping cap recharge while cloaked and making cloaking slowly use up cap, i was thinking of submarines myself, but wasn't sure how often they had to resurface for air, so didn't mention it
I like the consumption idea too... but I must admit I prefer using heavy water as opposed to cap. Of all the ice mins, Heavy Water is dirt cheap, and useful only for one thing. If cloaks used heavy water, it would increase the value of this ice mineral, and eliminate the problem of cloaking ratters and ISK farmers.
There could be a modifier for the covops cloak (versus the prototype and T2 cloak), and a further modifier for the recon and covops class ships (covops and recons)... so that ppl cannot be forward deployed and cloaked for days on end. -----------------------------------------------
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.07.20 18:29:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Giamilton
Haha, when i was writing my ideas on stopping cap recharge while cloaked and making cloaking slowly use up cap, i was thinking of submarines myself, but wasn't sure how often they had to resurface for air, so didn't mention it
I was actually thinking of them needing to come near the surface to start their diesel engines to recharge their batteries. That is a good idea, the cap recharging seems like it allows everyone to do what they want to do while eliminating the metagaming aspect of attacking someone at the station, cloaking then off to the Pub for 4 hours,
Uhm, we are several thousand years in the future remember...
Modern submarines can stay submerged for MONTHS. Diesel-electric subs were decommissioned 25-30 years ago for most major powers. <-----------> Factional Warfare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
Freaky Bare
Blueprint Haus Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.20 23:28:00 -
[57]
Tekumze never whines about anything in this game. He works on how to get around problems. I realize it is not possible in this game to suggest a change without being asked to go play Sims Online. Now Tek knows that too!
His concern here is perfectly valid. No one can pacify any system in this game right now. Not because someone is talented or because they trained a skill to V. Becoming invincible in this game requires less than a days training.
I think it says something that the guys currently cloaked in our system are (mostly) in agreement that some change is needed. The current climate has many people doing this that never have before. (me) I can guarantee you that no one will stop on their own.
I don't personally like the 'leave local' idea, and the idea of 8k range de-cloaks are ... weird. (Unless he was referring to drones? That might cover 8k.) I don't know what the solution is. I do know that my Tempest should not be able to cloak in your system while I am at work.
I think we could make a fair dent in public opinion (of the 0.0 crowd anyway) if we could solve both the afk campers AND the cloaked ratter problems. (Yes - I do that too now) How many of us like not being able to scan out macro-ratters? They don't bother to log anymore - they just cloak.
I actually don't see a fair way to change the Recons and CovOp ships. They ARE supposed to be able to fly around cloaked and nothing should damage that. The HAC's and BS etc. are another story.
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Freaky Bare
Blueprint Haus Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.20 23:30:00 -
[58]
Originally by: fire 59
Originally by: Tekumze Wolf Your grounds for the nerf are entirely different.
Nerfing a cloak would not solve your problems though. All they need is SS and log. You'd have to be lucky to probe them out in time.
Even taking their "logout" tactic you'd still have trouble getting them if they keep moving between several safespots.
AAIIEE . Heh, good point though, hopefully make npcs cause aggro ^^ (j/k )
Yes, but at least when they log out you have a chance to catch them. Now to get the timer extended .... CCP??
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Freaky Bare
Blueprint Haus Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.20 23:38:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Nightbird (/me also waves at Hydra ppl in local)
Ah'm in yur bace, killin' ur doodz!
But on a more serious note, force recon cloaking is not a major issue. This is what they were designed for.
However... non-covert ops cloaks should require heavy water to use.... which will eliminate the "cloaking ratters" problem.
And to Hydra.... you were in our capital system first... playing the cloak and AFK game. Like it or not, you started it. You didn't see us starting whine threads on the forums when you did it to us :)
/me waves I agree any nerf should not effect Force Recon or CovOp ships. He is not whining - just a bit naive. He actually thought coming to the ideas forum would bring about a discussion.
Yes, our guys DID start the Sparta/HYDRA cloaking thing, but we did not start the trend. I have no idea if this has been effective for either side - that really has no bearing on this thread. It is annoying and cannot be stopped within normal game mechanics.
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Giamilton
Synergy Evolved Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.21 00:24:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Originally by: Giamilton
Haha, when i was writing my ideas on stopping cap recharge while cloaked and making cloaking slowly use up cap, i was thinking of submarines myself, but wasn't sure how often they had to resurface for air, so didn't mention it
I was actually thinking of them needing to come near the surface to start their diesel engines to recharge their batteries. That is a good idea, the cap recharging seems like it allows everyone to do what they want to do while eliminating the metagaming aspect of attacking someone at the station, cloaking then off to the Pub for 4 hours,
Uhm, we are several thousand years in the future remember... Modern submarines can stay submerged for MONTHS. Diesel-electric subs were decommissioned 25-30 years ago for most major powers.
It was the method you hater, not the technology. Jesus you'd think I thought that the US was still using Gato class subs.... always one in every thread, nothing constructive, just the spell check police come round to show they are smarter than someone else.
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