Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
DamienUPB
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
|
Posted - 2007.08.10 18:00:00 -
[121]
This is funny. Attacking ccp over rewards for the tourney. Take them out completely if you want. We'd like a reward but we want to do this more for PR for the alliance and to do it for fun. If your in it for the isk value of the reward it's rather sad. Do it to do it and be able to say that was me or my alliance.
As for the rules we all have to abide by them. Some have more money to blow then others but such is life. Be the underdog and beat them with less and have pride. Our alliance deals in boosters and you don't see us complaining about the choice on that rule.
|
Alias11
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.08.10 22:55:00 -
[122]
You know I pointed out how stupid and abusable these rules were at least four times already and I'm not going to bother with it again.
|
d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.08.11 01:03:00 -
[123]
Originally by: GM Nova
Originally by: Sli'co Scoser
Originally by: StarLite I think it's a bit strange rigs are not allowed, their widely available, quote affordable, can fit on every ship, are not imbalanced etc.
What reason is there to disallow them?
GM Nova stated that "it would make tanking too effective" which of course makes perfect sense when they allow pirate implants that provide supertanking beyond what most rig combinations can offer.
Here is the main reason for allowing implants:
Majoroty of pilots have implants, while only a portion of those that do have jumpclones. If we were to prohibit implants we would be forcing players to either get a jumpclone or in cases where that is not possible, destroy their implants. We do not want to force players to take actions which will disrupt their normal gameplay or limit their ability to participate in the tourney.
I hope you understand this from our perspective.
no?
|
Ophichius
Es and Whizz
|
Posted - 2007.08.11 06:52:00 -
[124]
Will there be post-combat looting of wreckage allowed?
In addition, about the tournament prize, I have only this to say: Needs more exotic dancers. (T2 exotic dancers anyone?)
-O
|
Zuquar Bonaparte
|
Posted - 2007.08.11 11:27:00 -
[125]
Originally by: d026
Originally by: GM Nova
Originally by: Sli'co Scoser
Originally by: StarLite I think it's a bit strange rigs are not allowed, their widely available, quote affordable, can fit on every ship, are not imbalanced etc.
What reason is there to disallow them?
GM Nova stated that "it would make tanking too effective" which of course makes perfect sense when they allow pirate implants that provide supertanking beyond what most rig combinations can offer.
Here is the main reason for allowing implants:
Majoroty of pilots have implants, while only a portion of those that do have jumpclones. If we were to prohibit implants we would be forcing players to either get a jumpclone or in cases where that is not possible, destroy their implants. We do not want to force players to take actions which will disrupt their normal gameplay or limit their ability to participate in the tourney.
I hope you understand this from our perspective.
no?
cant understand that part either, seing that about every alliance probable has a char in there alliance that could make a corp for the day and have standings to make j/c . it favours lrg alliances that has the funds to outfit there teams with the best and most expencive implants. j/c,s are cheap , easy to get and is not the trouble to achieve as u make it. also if ccp can move us the day the matches takes place, then im sure it cant be such a big problem for ccp to ask ppl to have the skills for a j/c to enter the tournament, and then give them 1 for the day? apart from that id like to say , its so sad to see how ppl are *****ing about the prizes, this is for hounor and glory, then again maybe these ppl need it to pay for those expencive implants. if u dont like it then dont play, u read the rules b4 signing up. zuq
|
Jasmine Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2007.08.11 11:54:00 -
[126]
1. I can't believe there are more than a tiny majority of people entering characters into this tournament who don't have access to jump clones.
2. I simply don't believe there are ANY pilots with Pirate Implant sets entering this tournament who don't have access to jump clones.
Hence the argument that banning implants would force people to damage their normal manner of gameplay is somewhat void.
(and it in no-way explains why we aren't allowed to use rigs)
Star Fraction is recruiting
|
Ladel Teravada
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2007.08.11 12:08:00 -
[127]
Here's a first.
I agree with Jasmine.
Commodore Ladel Teravada Executive Officer, Fleet Operations
|
DHB WildCat
BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.
|
Posted - 2007.08.11 15:14:00 -
[128]
Edited by: DHB WildCat on 11/08/2007 15:15:19 Guys in all seriousness stop. Im sorry but I've been fighting to get changes and have offered good alternatives and reasons to why they need to be made. However no matter how much you will argue or explain your reasoning you will not get them to alter thier point of view. They believe they know everything there is to know about every single alliance and how the game is in general. You cannot hope to change thier POV. My suggestion is to just do the thing, then when its over pray they get a committee of players to set the rules for the next one.
Oh and to Jame's reply since he cant help but smack my every post.... stfu.
Edit for spelling
|
Twisted Joe
|
Posted - 2007.08.12 19:44:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Twisted Joe on 12/08/2007 19:46:13 Edited by: Twisted Joe on 12/08/2007 19:44:57 Here is my tuppence worth.
Hold the tourney on the test server. That way all rather than a few have access to all implants. No Alliance has any advantage over the others, except in terms of the relevant skill base - if u can't USE a Snake Omega then the point is moot anyway.
The Alliance's playing the tournament have to supply a set of roster of say 10 pilots and 10 reserves, who's toons are updated at midnight evetime on the SiSi server - so special factional ships not necessarily available on SiSi in the market that pilots wish to fly are imported, and as well as faction ammo supplies, so they are on the test server at the beginning of that day and can be set up accordingly.
Rather than overpowering a limited few who can afford complete HG implant sets, this balances everybody on the same playing field, due the low cost of all items on SiSi.
It also potentially makes the playing arena more stable due to it running on a much smaller server and a lot fewer pilots.
Rewards are given out on the normal server and the 'copy' of a pilot that is on the test server is updated when needed - and left to be copied over on the future after the tourney is over
Rigs are another issue to implants altogether, and personally feel that as long as there is a rule that everybody is capable of following then it does not matter a great deal.
|
Pilk
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2007.08.12 19:48:00 -
[130]
Originally by: DHB WildCat Edited by: DHB WildCat on 11/08/2007 17:39:25 Edited by: DHB WildCat on 11/08/2007 15:15:19 Guys in all seriousness stop. Im sorry but I've been fighting to get changes and have offered good alternatives and reasons to why they need to be made. However no matter how much you will argue or explain your reasoning you will not get them to alter thier point of view. They believe they know everything there is to know about every single alliance and how the game is in general. You cannot hope to change thier POV. My suggestion is to just do the thing, then when its over pray they get a committee of players to set the rules for the next one.
8)
Edit for spelling
The already-existing committee says hi, and asks if anyone can please send a liferaft, or at least some food, to the island on which we've been marooned for half a year. We're starving.
--P
Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. |
|
Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities
|
Posted - 2007.08.13 02:15:00 -
[131]
So i take it we're getting no further explanation/admissal/apology/refutation of the useless logic used to set out this year's rules?
I'll be totally honest here. I can see a widespread boycott happening next time if it carries on then in the same way it has here. I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason many teams are competing this time is simply because they've invested 6 months of training and preparation that they don't want to be a total waste.
|
Aurious
|
Posted - 2007.08.13 23:49:00 -
[132]
Originally by: GM Nova
Originally by: Sli'co Scoser
But from that perspective as well, what if you want to bring a faction battleship that currently has expensive (T2) rigs on it? Now you would have to either destroy the rigs or go out and buy an identical ship without rigs to use instead of the one with rigs on it.
You know these are not remotely identical situations. You don't HAVE to bring that ship. On the other hand, with only one clone, you HAVE to bring your current body.
Your reasoning fails tbh. You dont HAVE to you use that pilot. You dont HAVE to enter at all. |
Pilk
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 03:50:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Aurious
Originally by: GM Nova
Originally by: Sli'co Scoser
But from that perspective as well, what if you want to bring a faction battleship that currently has expensive (T2) rigs on it? Now you would have to either destroy the rigs or go out and buy an identical ship without rigs to use instead of the one with rigs on it.
You know these are not remotely identical situations. You don't HAVE to bring that ship. On the other hand, with only one clone, you HAVE to bring your current body.
Your reasoning fails tbh. You dont HAVE to you use that pilot. You dont HAVE to enter at all.
Okay, this seems to have generated some controversy, considering it was the topic of a conversation in Jita Local, of all places, earlier today. There are two statements involved:
1) All pilots have the FUNDAMENTAL ability to change ships at will, and lose nothing by doing so (even true for mothership/titan pilots, if considered in a vacuum, but that's a bit of a corner case, anyway). 2) All pilots have the innate ability to change implant sets around (or to forgo implants entirely) by destroying their old implants. 2a) Jumpclones (largely) negate this, but pilots do not INHERENTLY possess the capability to create jumpclones. 2aa) Even if they did, or if you argue it's sufficiently cheap to get jumpclones that it shouldn't matter, pilots cannot necessarily have an implant-free jumpclone available for the tournament without destroying existing implants.
CCP is working off of the goal that pilots should not lose anything other than what they choose to undock* in. As soon as you force someone to destroy implants in order to participate in the tournament, you've failed this requirement. And, before someone says it couldn't happen, I know of one tournament participant whose jump clones consist of two +5 sets (one in his active clone), a Slave set, a Snake set, a Crystal set, and a +4 "suicide ops" set (with 5% hardwirings). Yes, I hate him too.
Now, do I agree with this ruling? I'd have to think about it some more. For the time being, it exists by fiat, and I'm planning my tournament strategy accordingly. But those attacking it as illogical need to try to see it from Nova's perspective.
--P
*: Slight lie; you don't undock in the ship, you get /tr'd straight from the station to space.
Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. |
Pilk
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2007.08.14 03:53:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Ophichius Will there be post-combat looting of wreckage allowed?
Last tournament, you could loot as long as the match was still ongoing. This led to some boring matches on EveTV where the team left a single enemy ship alive (often even remote-repping it!) long enough to loot all the other wrecks. I'd strongly suggest a rules change allowing a few minutes after the match to loot cans (first come, first served) to forestall this unappetizing display.
--P
Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. |
Alias11
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.08.15 02:44:00 -
[135]
Ok I have a question for GM Nova
so we have our brackets of four teams.
Lets call them alliances A, B, C, and D.
Now lets say that alliances A, B, and C are all real buddy buddy and hate Alliance D, and that Alliance D stands a real good chance on winning the whole thing on their own.
So lets say alliances A, B, and C are all talking and stuff comes up and everyone agrees on it.
So lets call the first matchup A versus B.
Lets say both of them bring eight caracals each with identical characters that were all started at the same time explicitly for this tournament a week or so prior. So we have sixteen identical ships and pilots on the field. Now lets say they go fight and seven people on each team get killed. And then the last two are exchanging missiles at standoff range and both die simultaneously. In this case both teams would be awarded 150 points, yes?
Well then we move to Teams C and D fighting and Team C just brought a pile of remote repping ships that really can't be stopped but have laughably little in the way of firepower and are only there to keep team D from blowing up ships and scoring points.
around this time Alliances A and B send a couple billion isk to alliance C and they all kinda laugh for a bit.
At the end of C and D's fight very little has been accomplished so alliance C has 20 points and alliance D has 35 points.
So alliances A and B advance to the next round. \
I guess my question is how could you people be so incompetent as to leave this loophole in the rules despite the fact that I pointed it out several times, at least once specifically to you, GM Nova
|
|
GM Nova
Game Masters
|
Posted - 2007.08.15 13:15:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Alias11 Ok I have a question for GM Nova
so we have our brackets of four teams.
Lets call them alliances A, B, C, and D.
Now lets say that alliances A, B, and C are all real buddy buddy and hate Alliance D, and that Alliance D stands a real good chance on winning the whole thing on their own.
So lets say alliances A, B, and C are all talking and stuff comes up and everyone agrees on it.
So lets call the first matchup A versus B.
Lets say both of them bring eight caracals each with identical characters that were all started at the same time explicitly for this tournament a week or so prior. So we have sixteen identical ships and pilots on the field. Now lets say they go fight and seven people on each team get killed. And then the last two are exchanging missiles at standoff range and both die simultaneously. In this case both teams would be awarded 150 points, yes?
Well then we move to Teams C and D fighting and Team C just brought a pile of remote repping ships that really can't be stopped but have laughably little in the way of firepower and are only there to keep team D from blowing up ships and scoring points.
around this time Alliances A and B send a couple billion isk to alliance C and they all kinda laugh for a bit.
At the end of C and D's fight very little has been accomplished so alliance C has 20 points and alliance D has 35 points.
So alliances A and B advance to the next round. \
I guess my question is how could you people be so incompetent as to leave this loophole in the rules despite the fact that I pointed it out several times, at least once specifically to you, GM Nova
Wow, that's quite a loophole. Let's see...
There will actually be five teams in each bracket, not four. For a draw, you will not receive the win bonus. Does the "loophole" still apply? If so, how likely is this? Seriously.
Anyone care to calculate the odds? Would you care to tell me how exactly we could prevent anyone from taking a fall for money?
Is Pro Wrestling real?
|
|
Alias11
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.08.15 23:15:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Alias11 on 15/08/2007 23:20:29
Originally by: GM Nova Wow, that's quite a loophole. Let's see...
(a)There will actually be five teams in each bracket, not four. (b)For a draw, you will not receive the win bonus. Does the "loophole" still apply? (c)If so, how likely is this? Seriously.
Anyone care to calculate the odds? Would you care to tell me how exactly we could prevent anyone from taking a fall for money?
Is Pro Wrestling real?
(a)
Originally by: GM Nova
Rules 1. This is a bracket tournament with eight brackets, four teams in each bracket, for a total number of 32 teams.
(b) Add a throwaway frigate to team A in the match, it is the last one standing, Team A gets 150 points, Team B, having destroyed everything but the frigate, gets 97 points.
You know what, lets simplify it, lets take out team C from the equation, so A and B are buddies who both want to go ahead, and C and D are completely unrelated to the event, they're just here for pew pew.
So because A and B have collaborated together, we now have team A automatically going ahead and team C or D must destroy the entirety of the enemy team to advance. (c) As for the odds, I'd say the odds of this sort of thing happening are right about the odds of two teams who are friends going up against eachother in the first round.
|
Pilk
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2007.08.16 03:57:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Alias11 (a)
Originally by: GM Nova
Rules 1. This is a bracket tournament with eight brackets, four teams in each bracket, for a total number of 32 teams.
That rule has been changed. There are 40 teams in the tournament now.
--P
Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. |
Alias11
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.08.16 05:14:00 -
[139]
you know I can't help but think that's be a good thing to update the stickied thread posted by the organizer called "Alliance Tournament Rules - Final" about.
That really does nothing to my point. The fact remains that two teams can collaborate to severely hamper a third teams chances of winning by rigging a match that has nothing to do with the third team whatsoever
|
Pilk
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2007.08.16 13:23:00 -
[140]
Since you asked for odds, the odds, in a 40-team tournament with 5-team brackets, that your buddy will share your bracket are simply 4 (the number of slots remaining in your bracket, after you're assigned to it)/39 (the number of slots remaining, period), or 10.26%. Obviously, the more buddies you have, the higher the odds.
That said, I'm of the opinion that, given that Eve allows ultra-capitalist competition in many other areas of the game, if I want to spend 40b (+alliance reg fees, if needed) to win this tournament (which, let's face it, is the final tally for a guaranteed win), I should be allowed to do so.
--P
Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. |
|
ookke
|
Posted - 2007.08.16 15:45:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Alias11 you know I can't help but think that's be a good thing to update the stickied thread posted by the organizer called "Alliance Tournament Rules - Final" about.
That really does nothing to my point. The fact remains that two teams can collaborate to severely hamper a third teams chances of winning by rigging a match that has nothing to do with the third team whatsoever
It has always been like this, nothing in particular to do with these rules.
|
NereSky
Gallente Domination. KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.08.24 07:08:00 -
[142]
I think the prizes are great tbh , mirrored to the game design well with a lot of time and thought put into them,
After all this is a tourney to promote interaction between players and Alliances not to appease greed,
to have a medal pinned to your Char' in the future is a fantastic idea :)
N1
|
Yokan Daifuku
Gallente The Flaming Sideburn's Hedonistic Imperative
|
Posted - 2007.08.24 21:03:00 -
[143]
Will there be a visible timer to the combatants? ---- Yo-con Die-foo-koo |
|
EVETV spiralJunkie
|
Posted - 2007.08.24 22:28:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Alias11 you know I can't help but think that's be a good thing to update the stickied thread posted by the organizer called "Alliance Tournament Rules - Final" about.
That really does nothing to my point. The fact remains that two teams can collaborate to severely hamper a third teams chances of winning by rigging a match that has nothing to do with the third team whatsoever
such is life. People throw matches (hi Tyrrax) and people get upset. _
|
|
Yorick Downe
|
Posted - 2007.08.26 03:32:00 -
[145]
Trying to wrap my head around one of the rules: "7. If a player warps out/leaves the arena, His/her ship will be destroyed." -- Is that to be taken literally? A ship that tries to snipe at range and ABs away from others and gets to 125.1km off the beacon and thus "leaves the arena", as the arena is 125km radius around the beacon, will go up in flames? That'd lead to some interesting accidental deaths, potentially.
I personally wouldn't have issue with that literal an interpretation, nor with a less literal interpretation. I'd like to know, though. It's good to be alive.
As for the JC discussion - it is what it is, maybe it'll be different next year. JCs are, however, currently available to all for a 100k fee in EC-P8R, courtesy of the alliance holding the outpost there. So, they are potentially available to any pilot, though, this being EC-P8R, having a scout before jumping into system is advised.
|
ookke
|
Posted - 2007.08.26 14:47:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Yorick Downe Trying to wrap my head around one of the rules: "7. If a player warps out/leaves the arena, His/her ship will be destroyed." -- Is that to be taken literally? A ship that tries to snipe at range and ABs away from others and gets to 125.1km off the beacon and thus "leaves the arena", as the arena is 125km radius around the beacon, will go up in flames? That'd lead to some interesting accidental deaths, potentially.[/br]
You obviously didn't watch EVE TV last tournament :P One match was down to Ishkur vs. Megathron. Thron was capped out and in structure and then the ishkur drifted a bit outside the arena and got heal zeroed, thron wins.
|
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.08.27 00:07:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Pilk Since you asked for odds, the odds, in a 40-team tournament with 5-team brackets, that your buddy will share your bracket are simply 4 (the number of slots remaining in your bracket, after you're assigned to it)/39 (the number of slots remaining, period), or 10.26%. Obviously, the more buddies you have, the higher the odds.
Since the draws have been done now, it's worth pointing out, at first glance:
Group A: Afermath Alliance and IAC are allies.
Group F: MC and AXE are allies (I think).
Group G: Atlas and R0ADKILL are friends.
Could be more, but I'm too tired to call up every alliances political situation from my memory right now
Not that I'm saying any of the above would ever dream of doing any such thing, just that the loophole would apply.
And I'm of the opinion that, despite what the competitors would like to be able to do in this ultra-capitalistic world, it should be the Competition Organiser's job to make the rules as fool-proof as possible.
And personally, I think the points-for-kills system is ridiculous. A win should be whoever holds the field at the end of the match, not who managed to grind enough kills. It's highly un-EVE-y. And it'll lead to some occasions where the team that it looks and feels like lost is walking away the winner- and thats never a good thing in a budding sport.
I sincerely hope it does lead to some stupid results or trickery, since at least that way the next tournament might be arranged a little more sensibly... --------
|
JaegerX
Quam Singulari M. PIRE
|
Posted - 2007.08.27 00:35:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Patch86 I sincerely hope it does lead to some stupid results or trickery, since at least that way the next tournament might be arranged a little more sensibly...
... or, at least that way, we won't think of you as a paranoid schizophrenic. Yay...
|
Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.08.27 01:19:00 -
[149]
Originally by: JaegerX
Originally by: Patch86 I sincerely hope it does lead to some stupid results or trickery, since at least that way the next tournament might be arranged a little more sensibly...
... or, at least that way, we won't think of you as a paranoid schizophrenic. Yay...
This is also true, and a happy bonus. --------
|
Ladel Teravada
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2007.08.27 05:42:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Patch86
Since the draws have been done now, it's worth pointing out, at first glance:
Group A: Aftermath Alliance and IAC are allies.
Saaaaay what, what (in the butt)?
Commodore Ladel Teravada Executive Officer, Fleet Operations
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |