Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Red Crown
Kudzu Collective
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Posted - 2007.07.17 14:00:00 -
[1]
....and Gun spam has just begun! Welcome to Rev 2.0, an evolution in alliance warfare. It now takes 150% longer to destroy an enemy starbase.
Lemme give you some stats. My alliance recently seiged a couple of towers, and by and large the most mind numbing and time consuming part was first disabling and then destroying the guns.
Small Guns of all sizes have roughly 1 Million HP from my dead reckoning. Checking the DB, structural data isn't given.
This is, roughly how much, slightly smaller than a full blown Small POS. On one gun. By my calculations, you could fit up to 20 small guns on a POS if you were smart.
Wait, what? 1 X 20 = 20....Milllion!
But wait, wait Red...you can just disable the buggers.
True! They won't shoot at you then. But the magic behind Rev 2.0 is that You can't anchor another starbase until all the structures have been cleared.
This effectively makes it so that you can hold down a moon for a lot of extra time.
Large towers also have potential. It took my Alliance an extra 7 or 8 hours to finish off [b]30 guns that were spammed on an enemy tower once they realized we were going to win.
Large guns can have up to 5 Million hull HP. It is now fully possible and feasible to make killing a POS take nearly twice as long as it used to.
CCP, you need to rethink this. Gun spam is a tactic in use that makes the blob all the more necessary. Its a timesink, a way of holding a moon without doing anything more than paying for guns (I don't forsee it being long before moons are covered in small towers and guns as methods of Sov. Spam).
True, an alliance may be able to gain Sov. in a system by destroying the starbases - but it will be tough to hold Sov. When you have to spend hundreds of man hours clearing guns in a system to put your own towers up.
Sign if you think this needs to be redone.
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Moon Kitten
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.17 14:04:00 -
[2]
Finally a boost to Amarr. |
Rashmika Clavain
Gallente Revelation Space
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Posted - 2007.07.17 14:18:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Moon Kitten Finally a boost to Amarr.
lol
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shivan
Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.07.17 14:19:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Moon Kitten Finally a boost to Amarr.
Amarr are OMGWTFBBQKITTENFISHSTICKS over powered, boost Minmitar. ------------------
RAM KB |
Entreri Finwe
Raptus Regaliter Pride - Honor - Duty
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Posted - 2007.07.17 14:24:00 -
[5]
Originally by: shivan
Originally by: Moon Kitten Finally a boost to Amarr.
Amarr are OMGWTFBBQKITTENFISHSTICKS over powered, boost Minmitar.
Boost civilian railguns!!!
Originally by: jarack I de-synced in my bathroom once, now i have no where to wash my hands
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.07.17 14:26:00 -
[6]
how about removing all of the guns altogether and letting you walk inside the stations with men - ambulation is coming ____ __ ________ _sig below_ the jet cans are made so that people that dont mine can get free ore
miners ritually donate the ore to anyone wishing to take some |
Splagada
Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.17 14:29:00 -
[7]
Originally by: SiJira how about removing all of the guns altogether and letting you walk inside the stations with men - ambulation is coming
i really hope we can anchor some Large artys INSIDE the station ------
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Galmar Grief
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Posted - 2007.07.17 14:32:00 -
[8]
Awsome thread.
I'd love to hear an official response to this, POS warfare just got even duller =D.
Why not though just an idea... make stuff unanchorable if its offline and drastically lower hp of these things? I understand the whole "we don't want solo gangs to knock out all defences" but if its taking fleets multiple hours to secure a moon thats kinda wtf.
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Nicho Void
Gallente Hyper-Nova
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Posted - 2007.07.17 14:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Red Crown ....and Gun spam has just begun! Welcome to Rev 2.0, an evolution in alliance warfare. It now takes 150% longer to destroy an enemy starbase.
I fail the see where this is a problem. POS sieging should be just that, a siege.
siege ûnoun 1.the act or process of surrounding and attacking a fortified place in such a way as to isolate it from help and supplies, for the purpose of lessening the resistance of the defenders and thereby making capture possible. 2.any prolonged or persistent effort to overcome resistance. ---------------
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.17 14:40:00 -
[10]
Yeah, I'm with the whole 'make it longer' thing. Someone said it would increase blobs, fair enough, but it also means more people pansying around trying to find the correct system for the gank, which means roaming gangs are more effective, thus you've split up one blob already, and at least reduced the size of the second blob.
I like the new way. It makes sovereignty mean something now.
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.07.17 14:45:00 -
[11]
I read "POS Spam is at an end" and it made me excited, then I read your post and realized that it was a whine. You really got my hopes up, man. Also - when a POS is destroyed, can't it's structures be unanchored and scooped? Seems faster than destroying everything. ------------ ULTIMATE LAG SOLUTION IBTL! IBDS/DC! IBTC! 1st in a BoB post! And other such forum tom-foolery. |
Ral Ulgur
Helion Production Labs
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Posted - 2007.07.17 14:46:00 -
[12]
Isn't the idea to disable gun, then pop tower which gives resistance bonus to guns and then finish off guns? Or was that already taken into account?
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Natalia Fachiri
Minmatar Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.07.17 14:46:00 -
[13]
dont forget the flipside, wich is just as bad.
On a normally set up POS you will have 10-20 things outside the shield, guns, warp scrams, damps, whatever. If the POS is sieged and all those things are shot till they are disabled, you will have to repair them all if you then save the POS.
Do the math on how long it takes to repair all that armor...its sad.
Basically these changes have prolonged POS warfare for both defender and attacker by a huge ammount.
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Admiral Shallow
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.07.17 14:47:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Moon Kitten Finally a boost to Amarr.
lmao
BTW You Suck |
Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.17 14:47:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tarminic Also - when a POS is destroyed, can't it's structures be unanchored and scooped? Seems faster than destroying everything.
Not at the moment, though it would be nice if they added that. -----
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Derran
Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.07.17 14:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Galmar Grief
... but if its taking fleets multiple hours to secure a moon thats kinda wtf.
Isn't that the point? Sieges are supposed to be long and hard on the attacker, not the other way around. Now the defender has the advantage, not the attacker, like it should be.
I'd say this system makes you more careful in your choice of targets instead of just taking a blob on down the line destroying many, many structures one by one in less than a week.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.07.17 14:49:00 -
[17]
I think the problem is that gun structure bonus is NOT reset to zero when tower gets destroyed. And I think it's a bug.
Char creation guide | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Mashie Saldana
Hooligans Of War
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Posted - 2007.07.17 14:50:00 -
[18]
I hope you didn't try to destroy the guns before the tower though or you would waste a lot of time and ammo on 90% structure resists given by the tower.
We're sorry, something happened.
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Red Crown
Kudzu Collective
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Posted - 2007.07.17 14:56:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana I hope you didn't try to destroy the guns before the tower though or you would waste a lot of time and ammo on 90% structure resists given by the tower.
Nope.
As was mentioned, some people think that the resists are retained even after the POS dies. This is not true - they just have as much Armor/Hull HP as the POS itself.
This is actually a Nerf Caldari thread if you look closely.
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Cammulos
Shadow Of The Light R i s e
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Posted - 2007.07.17 14:56:00 -
[20]
@OP, maybe you need to get together more than a 10man BS gang? I have np with the new system.
Btw... Cap ship Fleets are your friends.
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Mithfindel
Amarr Ordo Crucis Argenteus
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Posted - 2007.07.17 15:22:00 -
[21]
How well would bombs/smartbombs work? Specially on the spammy case if there are, say, ten structures in a blob and a bomb makes 8000 hp worth damage on one, you'd have 80k hp bombs, essentially. With more structures, more damage. On small POS's a few carriers should be able to cover the whole POS site with AoE damage, speeding the demolition process.
I admit that I didn't count the signature ratio on the bomb against small structures, but smartbombs should work, still. Also bombs may not be very cost-effective, at least if you can get enough smartbombing carriers to deal with the junk.
Though admittedly, if there's no control tower present, scooping the junk up would be rational. If someone thinks that it's too easy a solution, then let it be repaired first, free POS modules, anyway. Or, have a "hacking" type module that lets you gain the ownership of the structures (when no hostile control tower present) and then allow anchoring a control tower in the old one's stead.
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Popperr
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.17 15:22:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Cammulos @OP, maybe you need to get together more than a 10man BS gang? I have np with the new system.
Btw... Cap ship Fleets are your friends.
Yes because Rise have been killing poses left, right and centre. Maybe you can leave the discussion to people who understand the issues instead of being overly concerned with increasing your post count.
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Alerce
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Posted - 2007.07.17 15:25:00 -
[23]
Pretty Realistic stuff, if you ask me.
Demolition work, always cost a lot of time and efford. Maybe in this way, small alliances can survive a bit longer, when one of the big HORDES want to try to roll them up, for not paying their bills....... And it will slow down the bigger alliances as well.
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Red Crown
Kudzu Collective
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Posted - 2007.07.17 15:44:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Alerce Pretty Realistic stuff, if you ask me.
Demolition work, always cost a lot of time and efford. Maybe in this way, small alliances can survive a bit longer, when one of the big HORDES want to try to roll them up, for not paying their bills....... And it will slow down the bigger alliances as well.
FYI the Small guns are the same models as racial sentry guns.
Except they have 1 Million HP. Kinda wrecks the realism when you have 60 battleships firing on an object no larger than a frigate.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.17 16:29:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Cammulos @OP, maybe you need to get together more than a 10man BS gang? I have np with the new system.
Btw... Cap ship Fleets are your friends.
The whole idea of new system was no need of CAP do do everything, and you cannot jump Capital ships when there is a Cyno Inhibitor. Pretty much looks you never read the PAtch notes.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Hohne
Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.18 13:23:00 -
[26]
Point is it's quicker to destroy a tower with BS than it is to destroy the guns of the same tower, with the same BS. Which is kinda sucky. Now unless you want to re-use that moon, there's no reason to destroy them. Infact if the 'enemy' wants to reuse that moon themselves.... They will have to kill the guns themselves...
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Deacon Diatribe
Fluid Motion
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Posted - 2007.07.18 21:37:00 -
[27]
Just make the things scoopable once the tower is down. Problem solved.
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XiticiX
Gallente Kudzu Collective Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.07.18 21:52:00 -
[28]
That'd work. ~~~ This is my sig. Do you like it? ~~~ |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.07.18 21:56:00 -
[29]
yeah what was the logic behind 5mil hull hp... I can understand making guns impossible to kill...wait that's it...
why not makes guns go offline and have 100% resists on hull. I'm sry ccp but even 99% would make more sence than 5 million on a gun. does this mean the guns on our ships have 5 million hull?
wait a damn minute CCP, does make guns and pos structures the ONLY thing in eve with more hull than armor and shields? doesn't that seem... wrong? to you?
once the tower is down 5 million hull is HARD to bite into. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP |
Arachidamia
Matari People's Front
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Posted - 2007.07.18 22:02:00 -
[30]
Just make it so all the left over damaged structures blow up when the tower goes. Make it all go *boom*
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