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Yanjul Slagenhoffen
NovaeDyne Industries Frontier Trade League
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Posted - 2007.07.19 20:33:00 -
[1]
LP store requirements for a caldari navy missile launcher for example;
1 X Heavy Missile Launcher II 131 X Gallente Captain Tags (40M to buy or so on the market) 21 X Gallente Major Tags 9.6M
I mean, it will cost 67.2M in total just to fit a drake with these launchers, just for the isk you need to add to get the launcher. THats not even without the tags!
I know they are good, I know they are better than t2, but still too high and needs to be changed.
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.19 20:51:00 -
[2]
dg heavys were 80-120mil so I have no clue what's wrong with price -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
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Crystalyne
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Posted - 2007.07.20 00:39:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Crystalyne on 20/07/2007 00:39:38 Navy Cruise is the same issue. It's much cheaper to go for the BPC if you have Caldari Navy LP.
I wanted 5 Navy Cruise launchers and went for the BPC. The cost to get BPC and build is like 40% of market.. I built 5 and fitted to my CNR for 156 million.
Cost on contract or as finished module would have been 350-400 mil easy.
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R Ramjet
Caldari Deathshead Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.20 01:59:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Crystalyne Edited by: Crystalyne on 20/07/2007 00:39:38 Navy Cruise is the same issue. It's much cheaper to go for the BPC if you have Caldari Navy LP.
I wanted 5 Navy Cruise launchers and went for the BPC. The cost to get BPC and build is like 40% of market.. I built 5 and fitted to my CNR for 156 million.
Cost on contract or as finished module would have been 350-400 mil easy.
I did the same The market for these launchers is rapidly falling tho as more people are buying the bpc and selling them for this great markup
Originally by: Asmosis Lowsec is kinda like the run-down industrial slums between the law abiding city (hi-sec) and the free open country side (0.0).
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Riggers Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.07.20 09:24:00 -
[5]
They should reduce it just a little.. or increase the missions with tags a bit (hopefully coming with faction warfare).
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Chainsaw Plankton
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Posted - 2007.07.20 09:28:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton on 20/07/2007 09:28:32 cost about 90mil to fit up a drake with arby launchers using 13 mil each as thats what i remember them being
would think faction would cost at least double that
edit oh yes that and i would like to be able to get cn launchers and such without completely owning my standings with gallente. or paying for tags/other peoples lp+tags
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Yanjul Slagenhoffen
NovaeDyne Industries Frontier Trade League
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Posted - 2007.07.20 09:37:00 -
[7]
You cant get a BPC for the launchers, or am I just missing it?
These launchers shouldnt be so so expensive to get, you've earned it after all through missions.
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Mastin Dragonfly
Absolutely No Return The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.07.20 10:18:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Yanjul Slagenhoffen
You cant get a BPC for the launchers, or am I just missing it?
These launchers shouldnt be so so expensive to get, you've earned it after all through missions.
The more combat orientated corps like the Navies offer bpcs for certain mods. I also have them in the Ministry of Internal Order corp (Amarr), so not just the Navies.
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Phileasfogg
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Posted - 2007.07.20 11:45:00 -
[9]
These are high end rewards for dedicated mission runners do you seriously expect them to be freely avaliable for everyone at low prices? Don't be silly, you should be thanking CCP that they have made a system where you can actually get them at all. The only valid complaint you might have is that there is no Heavy Missile Launcher BPC.
I find all those faction items to be very cheap and would like to see the prices on them raised a bit. Since the LP store has come out I think nothing of fitting a Raven with faction launchers on it, 1 month ago that would have been an extravagence.
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Ares Lightfeather
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.07.20 14:13:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Phileasfogg
Get a clue. For the same item, one method costs 3 or 4 times more than the other. -> Obvious imbalance. -> Need fix. Either make BPC more expensive, or missiles launchers less expensive, or both.
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evs
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Posted - 2007.07.20 16:14:00 -
[11]
its all in the tags........whoever decided the amount of tags musta been drunk and/or high at the time
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.07.20 17:52:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 20/07/2007 17:52:08
Originally by: evs its all in the tags........whoever decided the amount of tags musta been drunk and/or high at the time
More simply it has sayd "missions drop a lot of tags, so the price must be in line", without ever looking the numbers of tags dropped in missions. The number of missions to get 1 launcher, doing only the best missions for those tags is around 10, without getting any bounty , as the tag are the mission bounty.
Balanced?
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Phileasfogg
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Posted - 2007.07.21 02:41:00 -
[13]
Couldn't you just um I don't know buy the tags? Have a little common sense and put up a buy order for tags and in less than a day you will have the tags you need.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2007.07.21 02:52:00 -
[14]
Many of them are available cheap too. Though I suspect for the most popular you'll have to pay more and go further out of the way. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.07.21 06:07:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 21/07/2007 06:07:49
Originally by: Phileasfogg Couldn't you just um I don't know buy the tags? Have a little common sense and put up a buy order for tags and in less than a day you will have the tags you need.
Use your common sense too: if to get the tags for 1 of those module a so high number of missions is required, what you think will be the final player price for the tags?
Currently we have a decent number of tags around as people like me has keep his tags for a year without selling them, but the stockpile is very low and will disappear fast.
1 year of missions has got me enough tags for 1 module, then I will be lacking some of the most requested and less dropped tags (nice move requiring a lot of middle level tags, as those drop very little).
So probably I will sell them at a inflated price, as people will need them and get little of them. But that mean that the prices that CCP has thought as about right for the modules change completly.
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Matriarch Prime
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Posted - 2007.07.21 06:14:00 -
[16]
I've I've comented on this ina another thread, but it was sightly off topic.
Most of the modules don't scale in cost properly. Small turrets are almost the same cost as large. You can get similar performance at slightly higher skill requirment from Tech2 at a fraction of the cost (which more than makes up for the extra skill time, especially on the small but maybe medium modules too). Granted, large turrets are probably in line as the skill training for large arty turret spec V + 1200/1400mm arty II to beat out a republic fleet, not considering fitting reqs, are fairly daunting. But look at the cost for a small republic fleet turret and tell me something isn't wrong.
Try and tell me that a frigate pilot is going to earn enough LP to fit his ship doing only L1 missions.
Now I am just newly back to the game and I'm not an expert, but I don't see why they (small and medium modules) cost so much.
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Toria Nynys
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.07.21 19:32:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Matriarch Prime
Now I am just newly back to the game and I'm not an expert, but I don't see why they (small and medium modules) cost so much.
Because the person assigning the tag cost to offers was drunk/stoned/sleep deprived, all at the same time. Or just too busy to look at ALL the thousands of offers -- a more likely explanation.
The more popular modules were balanced against current market prices for pirate faction modules. Others got the same costs, decreasing slightly for smaller sized modules.
While I would have liked LP to be the determining factor in module cost, not rare tags I can see the thinking behind the current costs. If all corps got a way to cash out LP without having to buy tags then the rarity of faction modules would be a good thing.
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DubanFP
Caldari Four Rings D-L
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Posted - 2007.07.22 02:10:00 -
[18]
Dude, don't tell anyone this secret... but Faction isn't supposed to be cheap! ______________________
DubanFP> I stopped capitalizing the g in goonswarm a little while back. I find they no longer deserved the little bit of extra effort required to press the shift key. |
twit brent
Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.07.22 04:48:00 -
[19]
Was thinking of getting a rack of amarr navy lasers till I found out that tech II were way better.
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Matriarch Prime
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Posted - 2007.07.22 05:44:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Matriarch Prime Now I am just newly back to the game and I'm not an expert, but I don't see why they (small and medium modules) cost so much.
Update: Well, the large arty's were tit for tat on performance, with (at least republic fleet) faction gear (clearly) coming out on top from a skill investment standpoint.
I feel really stupid though, because the fit requirments make fitting those faction turrets (instead of T2) a piece of cake. Which, at least on the ships I've set up, make them much more powerful in the tank vs gank baslance department.
I'm gonna keep looking into it, but anyone knows a good reason (a real one, not 'because CCP wants to make LP grinds impossible' or whatever) as to why medium modules, and especially small modules remain at such high costs. All this without considering the other compoents of cost (tags, isk) which can be quite significant in and of themselves.
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Yanjul Slagenhoffen
NovaeDyne Industries Frontier Trade League
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Posted - 2007.07.22 17:13:00 -
[21]
Well see the t2 guns seem to be better than the faction ones, due to very helpful t2 ammo.
Caldari navy launchers are about 10% better than t2 (something like that), so they are better, still though, it takes a while to earn 1 nevermind 5-7. Thats the imbalance in the current requirements.
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Matriarch Prime
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Posted - 2007.07.22 19:42:00 -
[22]
Well, I really don't think they should be balanced on the number a person is likely to buy. But I am of the opinion that the costs are a little high considering the throwaway nature of eve's item economy. I have some confidence that many of these items are going to recieve some cost adjustements in the future. I think that the current problem is just due to macroing the item costs into the system to get them setup and ready for deployment.
The dveleoeprs are getting a lot of feedback, so I think so long as we continue to voice our opinion on specific modules, we might see some changes inn the works. I for one won't buy anything except implants until something is done.
Maybe someone should put together a thread to detail specific item/cost balances between different modules. Some modules are even further out of line on cost because they are underpowered. Like the repulbic fleet shield boost amp or some of the resist modules are well below their T2 variants in performance, they instead have easier fitting requirements on modules that don't need reduced fittgin reqs.
Getting specific is likely to get us results in a more tiemly manner.
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Weeka
Amarr Krieger des Lichts
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Posted - 2007.07.22 20:11:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Yanjul Slagenhoffen Well see the t2 guns seem to be better than the faction ones, due to very helpful t2 ammo.
Doesn't hold true for med amarr pulse laser though.. with the specialization skill reasonable high the t2 version beats amarr faction fast.
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Feng Schui
Minmatar The Ninja Coalition New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.07.22 22:12:00 -
[24]
Domination Stasis Webifier: 200 million ISK (rounded up... 20 mill or so up)
Republic Fleet Stasis Webifier: 520 million ISK (rounded down iirc).
My opinion is my own, not of my corp or my alliance. If you have problems, we can have a "who can do L4 missions faster" duel >:) |
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.07.23 04:22:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Matriarch Prime Some modules are even further out of line on cost because they are underpowered. Like the repulbic fleet shield boost amp or some of the resist modules are well below their T2 variants in performance, they instead have easier fitting requirements on modules that don't need reduced fittgin reqs.
While at first glance it might seem so but easier fitting requiments are useful. Not as useful as better stats ofc. For example Domination/Republic siege launchers let you let you pull off some setups CPU wise you will not manage with T2/Caldary Navy launchers. Granted they take a bit more power so at the end of day you get better setup with faction CPU as one of your fitting mods (need 2 fitting mods for proper siege launcher raven anyway).
Then again I have to admit that missile launchers are indeed a bit special case, as they are better than T2 (at least in case of caldary) and so quite worth their price while in minmatar case domination/fleet versions are not as attractive as rewards as you will need them not as often 'to make it fit'.
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Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This
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Posted - 2007.07.23 04:26:00 -
[26]
I took one look at the tag requirements for some of those offers, went , then , and closed the loyalty shop.
Not balanced and a bit disappointing, tbh.
Originally by: Dian Cecht Don't talk to me about NHS waiting lists!
My wife got pregnant and we had to wait 9 months before they would deliver it! And don't be fooled, they don't even deliver it! |
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.07.23 06:41:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Mr Friendly I took one look at the tag requirements for some of those offers, went , then , and closed the loyalty shop.
Not balanced and a bit disappointing, tbh.
Most tag requiments are fine. I have accepted in total 14 caldary navy launcher offers and quite happy with results. It gets even cheaper if you work for navy and can accept 5 run BPC's. Price per launcher comes down to something like 40 mil / unit then. Even at accepting just module offers they are bargain with under 60 mil / unit price.
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Lord Loom
Loom Service
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Posted - 2007.07.23 09:36:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Matriarch Prime [...]
Try and tell me that a frigate pilot is going to earn enough LP to fit his ship doing only L1 missions.
Now I am just newly back to the game and I'm not an expert, but I don't see why they (small and medium modules) cost so much.
I totally agree with you but the part I quoted strikes me as interesting. Basically, it seems CCP in no way intends the "newbie" to profit from LP offers for his L1 or L2 mission running (with the exception of low-end implants and maybe small ammo), the whole LP system (even before the shop) is aimed at collectors and "veterans" who can grind L4 missions for the money and LP that's required even for frigates and frigate mods.
A faction frig is worth about 80M (via BPC 40) at 1LP = 1k ISK, a faction cruiser 240M (120). To me this is wrong, but obviously the frigate pilot you mention isn't supposed to fit his ship with faction mods from L1 missions, let alone get faction ships according to his mission level, he is supposed to run L4s until he can afford the frigate stuff for comedy value
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.07.23 09:48:00 -
[29]
Well. 'Frigate pilot' is rather short period in the beginning of every pilot's career. It passes with few weeks with expection of few who like it enough to skill up for T2 frigates.
'Frigate pilot' is good suicide tackler. Thats about it for 'frigate pilot'. If He is in T2 ship then he can also shoot some 0.0 NPC's altho a lot less effectively than bigger ships. So no wonder LP offers are not tuned for small ship pilots on L1 and L2 missions.
It is not fault of LP system tho (as otherwise faction frigates would be as cheap as T1 regular ones if I can get 20 of those for each lev 4 mission I complete) but more issue of low level missions giving practically no rewards at all. It takes what - around 40 to 60 level 1 missions even to get enough LP for faction rocket ammo offer.
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Jaketh Ivanes
Amarr Riggers Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.07.23 10:39:00 -
[30]
Sorry, but frigates are not made obsolete by being able to fly battleships. It is in PvE, but not by a long shot in PvP. EVE is a PvP oriented game, so the balance is probably made based on that.
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