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William Hamilton
Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.20 02:43:00 -
[31]
CCP HELP!
I can fit 4 signal distortion amps on a scorpion abd it's better than having the ship bonus at level 5!
PLS give scorp +50% ecm strength per level!11111!11
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xHalcyonx
Amarr EmpiresMod Koroshiya Buntai
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Posted - 2007.07.20 03:15:00 -
[32]
Needs more Bluebell. ------------------- ნỊs uʍop əpỊsdn |
Corwain
Gallente Kamite
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Posted - 2007.07.20 03:50:00 -
[33]
Originally by: William Hamilton CCP HELP!
I can fit 4 signal distortion amps on a scorpion abd it's better than having the ship bonus at level 5!
PLS give scorp +50% ecm strength per level!11111!11
Right, 4 loslots that are vital slots on a Scorp, vs 1 non-turret hislot on a droneboat that doesn't really use his hislots for anything really.
I can see how it relates, really...
And yes, his sig refers to the fact that to fit a Neutron plate mega with decent resists you need to have very expensive implants, faction gear, and insane SPs and even then it will get killed by the first nos-heavy low SP ship of equal class that comes along.
Unlike, say, a Vaga or Curse or Huggin with snakes that allow you to keep your expensive investment intact.
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steveid
Templar Securities and Holdings Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.20 04:13:00 -
[34]
i hear what you are saying and in a way your correct but atm its already a fairly overpowered ship due to its amazing versatility.
Makes a great lvl 4 ship, good tank ship, good speed fit ship, the last thing it needs really is a boost.
If i HAD to pick another bonus for it that would make it inline with other ships the only one that i could think if that wouldn't overpower it is an increase per level in drone speed.
Drone speed would be a nice addition imo, make level 4's a little easier and make a speed tanked ishtar able to move with ogre II's instead of having to either dropoff or use mediums.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.07.20 04:27:00 -
[35]
Originally by: murder one Edited by: murder one on 20/07/2007 01:23:20 It's a non-bonus. I can fit one drone link augmentor and get 20km increased drone range, the same as having HAC 4. Every other HAC gets four useful bonuses, while the Ishtar only has two: Drone bay bonus and Drone HP/DPS bonus. [snip]
What the hell is wrong with you? Please stop doing this, it is at the point where it is impossible to determine whether or not you are trolling or if you area really out of your freaking mind.
The Ishtar is one of the most damaging HACs, it gets two damage bonuses[more drones=more damage], and a damage bonus to a secondary weapon[hybrids]. The freaking ship does more damage, with better damage types, with a better tank, at all ranges, with no cap use, without even fitting any freaking guns, than a Zealot.
It performs similarly compared to all other HACs but the Deimos and the Muninn. And you are complaining that one of its bonuses isnt perfectly in tune with the ship?
Go away, you arent helping.
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Mr Rourke
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Posted - 2007.07.20 04:32:00 -
[36]
of all of the HACs the Ishtar is the only one that uses BS sized weapon systems. It doesn't need a double damage bonus. A range bonus is present on each sheep, the Ishtar does not need to be an exception.
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doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.20 07:44:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Mr Rourke of all of the HACs the Ishtar is the only one that uses BS sized weapon systems. It doesn't need a double damage bonus. A range bonus is present on each sheep, the Ishtar does not need to be an exception.
I've heard this BS sized weapon thing before, if heavy drones are battleship class, why is their signature resolution the same as medium turrets?
Anyway, personally I'd settle for 5% drone MWD speed per HAC level instead of 5km range. Medium hybrid bonus can stay where it is for all I care. So my drones can fly 77km? whoopdefreakindooo, too bad it takes them over a minute to get there, at which point they forget what they're doing and spend a minute coming back while getting killed because I can't recall them fast enough. Remember the ishtar's metaphorical guns can be shot down, smartbombed, bugged, left behind, etc, a modest boost to their speed instead of range would go a long way without making the ship itself any better (because let's face it, it's so good it's almost cheating).
Steel Rat > if they only knew we make this **** up as we go |
mikaelim
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Posted - 2007.07.20 07:48:00 -
[38]
Edited by: mikaelim on 20/07/2007 07:49:15 Well i could agree that this bonus isnt hot at all. On the other side you claim zealot is fine. (although zealot misses 1 bonus and sac arguably 2) So from that point i just have to ask me if you are a little biased?
I don't really get it how is a bonus so that you are actually able to use your racial guns better than drone control range? How is it "great stuff" or "useful" as you put it in contrast to others being able to use their weapons anyway and getting extra-tracking, range or tank. You speak as if you had never flown an amarr ship. If that is the case i think you are a little bit fast with stating that only ishtar needs help, aren't you?
Also you decide to ignore reality in the first place:
"This thread is not a discussion about what is the best HAC, or what works and what doesn't."
Yes it is lol. You are just saying you want your ship improved no matter what the consequenses are for game balance. But that is just wrong. Ishtar might have one not so great bonus but it's still 2nd best hac. Now giving it insane boosts like another dmg bonus (how can you even *think* of it - 5 x double bonused t2 heavies on a cruiser - what did you smoke?) or a tank bonus would just make it too good. Quite obvious and you know it.
Point is you are crying all day about how overpowered nos is and how curse should be nerfed etc although its really the only strong ship amarr have. On the other hand you come here and whine for making some of the best of your ships even better. You are just working on your agenda to get even easier kills. Maybe get some skills?
And as somebody else said Deimos need real love. Your Mega-whine was really ok and i think it has problems. But ishtar? Thats over the top. And about half of minnie/amarr/caldari could need some too way more urgently than any gallente ship.
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doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.20 07:52:00 -
[39]
Originally by: mikaelim Well i could agree that this bonus isnt hot at all. On the other side you claim zealot is fine. (although zealot misses 1 bonus and sac arguably 2) So from that point i just have to ask me if you are a little biased?
Personally, if the zealot had a 5th gun and didn't lose it's drone bay, I'd fly one, like, tomorrow.
I don't beleive murder said anything about not fixing the other HAC's, god knows the sac is hurting, muninn is kind of an all around weird ship (double range bonus would be uber), zealot doesn't have the output it should, cerberus could probably use an extra midslot so it can do something radical like tackle and not die as easily as a caracal as a result, so on and so forth. This thread is just about the ishtar, and it's goofy little drone range bonus, don't think anyone here is trying to claim the other HAC's don't need just as much tweaking (if not considerably more)
Steel Rat > if they only knew we make this **** up as we go |
ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.20 07:53:00 -
[40]
+5% to drone mwd speed and +7.5% to drone tracking per lvl doesn't seem bad to me to replace that bonus (or even replace the turret bonus to make it drone-only). (mind you I fly all hacs so not realy gallente biased like some other ppl here)
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doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.20 07:57:00 -
[41]
Edited by: doctorstupid2 on 20/07/2007 07:56:48
Originally by: ElCoCo +5% to drone mwd speed and +7.5% to drone tracking per lvl doesn't seem bad to me to replace that bonus (or even replace the turret bonus to make it drone-only). (mind you I fly all hacs so not realy gallente biased like some other ppl here)
Hadn't thought of tracking, good idea. 5% all around speed boost and a tracking bonus to boot; make them harder to shoot down and easier to use effectively.
If it'll make the "OMG FIX ___________ INSTEAD OF ISHTAR" crowd happy I can start 3 or 4 new threads for each of the gimped HAC's...
Steel Rat > if they only knew we make this **** up as we go |
n0thing
omen.
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Posted - 2007.07.20 07:58:00 -
[42]
Well, even tho Ishtar is quite balanced and has great versatility. Yeah, bonus isnt used all the time like Vagabond uses its 4 all the time.
Well, if to look for an alternative to that bonus, then maybe:
- 5% drone volume decrease. - 5% drone signature radius reduction. - 5% drone signature resolution reduction. - 5% thermal drone damage increase(50% overall, 75% for ogres/hammerheads/hobgoblins). - 5% drone speed or tracking or etc.
Not going to argue if current bonus is good or bad, but those are just variations I thought about. ---
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Litus Arowar
Amarr Obsidian Asylum Pure.
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Posted - 2007.07.20 08:03:00 -
[43]
Originally by: n0thing Well, even tho Ishtar is quite balanced and has great versatility. Yeah, bonus isnt used all the time like Vagabond uses its 4 all the time.
Well, if to look for an alternative to that bonus, then maybe:
- 5% drone volume decrease. - 5% drone signature radius reduction. - 5% drone signature resolution reduction. - 5% thermal drone damage increase(50% overall, 75% for ogres/hammerheads/hobgoblins). - 5% drone speed or tracking or etc.
Not going to argue if current bonus is good or bad, but those are just variations I thought about.
the apoc doesn't use its bonus when it fits artilleries... and other such ridiculous crap
vagabond uses none of its bonuses when you fit it with 2 missile launchers only...
stop this thread, this is NOT a ship that needs fixing
Benn Helmsman> Could a mod give this guy a snip for constant insulting without giving any point to the topic? |
mikaelim
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Posted - 2007.07.20 08:19:00 -
[44]
Originally by: doctorstupid2 Personally, if the zealot had a 5th gun and didn't lose it's drone bay, I'd fly one, like, tomorrow.
Unfortunately it has neither a drone bay nor a 5th turret. And on top of that a useless bonus. But as murder said its a fine ship with "great" bonuses. Yeah Zealot is a monster. Nothing to see here, move along. And no he is *obviously* not biased at all.
Originally by: doctorstupid2
I don't beleive murder said anything about not fixing the other HAC's, god knows the sac is hurting, muninn is kind of an all around weird ship (double range bonus would be uber), zealot doesn't have the output it should, cerberus could probably use an extra midslot so it can do something radical like tackle and not die as easily as a caracal as a result, so on and so forth.
Well, he stated it's all ok with the other hac bonuses. Except for *maybe* the sac. To me this sounds exactly as if he wants to *NOT* boost/change the other hacs, especially zealot and sac which both (blatantly obvious) have problems with their bonuses.
Originally by: doctorstupid2
This thread is just about the ishtar, and it's goofy little drone range bonus, don't think anyone here is trying to claim the other HAC's don't need just as much tweaking (if not considerably more)
Well as i said above, he does. Also it was murder who brought the other hacs in here. I wouldn't have mentioned zealot/sac if he had only spoken on ishtar. In that case i had just stated how ishtar is 2nd best hac and doesn't need a boost. But he *did* state Zealots/sacs bonuses would be ok and better than ishtars. Thats just plain stupid and ignorant and it implies theres nothing to fix there. So he opened Pandora's Box. Not my problem at all.
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Kua Immortal
RSP Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.20 08:25:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Horza Otho /signed.
Repair amount bonus plx
Well i agree that other ships are more needy than the Ishtar. But if it had this bonus, I would probably actually fly one :P.
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doctorstupid2
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.07.20 08:36:00 -
[46]
Originally by: mikaelim
Originally by: doctorstupid2 Personally, if the zealot had a 5th gun and didn't lose it's drone bay, I'd fly one, like, tomorrow.
Unfortunately it has neither a drone bay nor a 5th turret. And on top of that a useless bonus. But as murder said its a fine ship with "great" bonuses. Yeah Zealot is a monster. Nothing to see here, move along. And no he is *obviously* not biased at all.
Wow, um, way to stumble right through the point. My point is that other HAC's absolutely need fixing, buffing, tweaking, whatever you want to call it, especially of the amarr variety. I do fly amarr, for the record. The fact the zealot doesn't have a 5th gun and loses it's drone bay are rather severe issues.
Originally by: mikaelim
Originally by: doctorstupid2
I don't beleive murder said anything about not fixing the other HAC's, god knows the sac is hurting, muninn is kind of an all around weird ship (double range bonus would be uber), zealot doesn't have the output it should, cerberus could probably use an extra midslot so it can do something radical like tackle and not die as easily as a caracal as a result, so on and so forth.
Well, he stated it's all ok with the other hac bonuses. Except for *maybe* the sac. To me this sounds exactly as if he wants to *NOT* boost/change the other hacs, especially zealot and sac which both (blatantly obvious) have problems with their bonuses.
Not really, you missed his point. I'll be the first to point out that murder's points are frequently over-complicated, but I think he was using the other ships as a comparison, e.g. the vagabond has 4 very practical boni, arguably so does the zealot, while the sacriledge and muninn are missing quite a bit. Shift your focus from what's wrong with other ships for a minute, we all know the problems are there, this is about 1 of 4 boni on one ship that murder flies, and thusly has had experience with. It's not an "OMG SO UNDERPOWERED BUFF BUFF BUFF WTFHAX" thread, it's a "why the crap does my ship have a stupid bonus" thread.
Originally by: mikaelim
Originally by: doctorstupid2
This thread is just about the ishtar, and it's goofy little drone range bonus, don't think anyone here is trying to claim the other HAC's don't need just as much tweaking (if not considerably more)
Well as i said above, he does. Also it was murder who brought the other hacs in here. I wouldn't have mentioned zealot/sac if he had only spoken on ishtar. In that case i had just stated how ishtar is 2nd best hac and doesn't need a boost. But he *did* state Zealots/sacs bonuses would be ok and better than ishtars. Thats just plain stupid and ignorant and it implies theres nothing to fix there. So he opened Pandora's Box. Not my problem at all.
See above, references to other HAC's were comparisons to put what he was proposing into context. Zealots boni ARE more useful then the drone range bonus on the ishtar, it's boni are not its problem. The sacriledge is a whole other cluster**** I don't even want to start discussing at present, we can all agree it need help. The point of this thread, if you can move past semantics for just one momnent, is NOT that the ishtar is underpowered or in desperate need of fixing; no, the point is it has an obscure bonus as do several other HAC's, and could use a minor tweak when they get their fixes as well.
If he opened pandora's box and you have a short attention span, not my problem.
Steel Rat > if they only knew we make this **** up as we go |
Steini OFSI
Gallente Minigame
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Posted - 2007.07.20 08:46:00 -
[47]
You get it all wrong, fit 2-3 drone augmentories, 2 sensor booster whatyacallitanyway. Have a webi/warp scrambly frig at gate and let your drones orbit it, and you have a sniper setup with Ishtar or SNISHTAR as I like to call it
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Dread Phantom
Caldari Project-Chaos
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Posted - 2007.07.20 09:02:00 -
[48]
More noobs calling heavy drones BS weapons
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mikaelim
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Posted - 2007.07.20 10:24:00 -
[49]
Edited by: mikaelim on 20/07/2007 10:24:26
Originally by: doctorstupid2
I do fly amarr, for the record. The fact the zealot doesn't have a 5th gun and loses it's drone bay are rather severe issues.
Yep, we totally agree here as far as i can tell.
Originally by: doctorstupid2
Not really, you missed his point. I'll be the first to point out that murder's points are frequently over-complicated, but I think he was using the other ships as a comparison, e.g. the vagabond has 4 very practical boni, arguably so does the zealot, while the sacriledge and
One of the Zealots bonus is cap usage to lasers. Calling this bonus useful is a bit meh. Its *necessary* and not useful in opposite to *all* other hac bonuses which give an edge and don't make your ship *just* barely usable. So how all of Zealots bonuses are fine is kind of a mystery to me. Whatever. Ofc. this is a more general problem with amarr ships lacking a 2nd or 4th real bonus. Devs said they might give us real bonuses (like cap warfare etc) and gave us pulse tracking instead. Bad luck.
Originally by: doctorstupid2
muninn are missing quite a bit. Shift your focus from what's wrong with other ships for a minute, we all know the problems are there, this is about 1 of 4 boni on one ship that murder flies, and thusly has had experience with. It's not an "OMG SO UNDERPOWERED BUFF BUFF BUFF WTFHAX" thread, it's a "why the crap does my ship have a stupid bonus" thread.
No, you are wrong. I already told you that i see the not so cool bonus thingie. Yes, drone control range is not what i would want for this ship either. However he proceeds to propose a *second* damage bonus to drones or a *repair amount* bonus. And now tell me its not about making the isthar more powerful. LOL.
So he then said he would settle with kind of a utility bonus like drone speed or something. Well this brings him at least back to reality from my point of view. (still he obviously *thinks* a double dronebonus or rep amount bonus would actually be ok - again in what world do you live?)
And again. You cannot just state oh this bonus isnt so cool, so hey lets change it but lets don't talk about how this compares to other hacs at all etc. It's called balance. You want to discuss a bonus change? Fine, but then accept people will ask if that puts isthar even more ahead of certain other hacs. Can't see how this is bad.
On the other hand if you are not going to change ishtar then why discussing it at all? And if you want to change it why not discussing how this changes it pvp capabilites? (i.e. putting out more damage than da domi or myrmi with drones lol @the op - the more i think about it the more it must be pure comedy)
Originally by: doctorstupid2
Zealots boni ARE more useful then the drone range bonus on the ishtar, it's boni are not its problem.
Every Amarr ship has problems with its bonuses except for curse and pilgrim. I see where you are coming from and again YES DRONE CONTROL RANGE BONUS IS NO FUN.
Originally by: doctorstupid2
underpowered or in desperate need of fixing; no, the point is it has an obscure bonus as do several other HAC's, and could use a minor tweak when they get their fixes as well.
A minor tweak? Like say double drone damage bonus or rep amount bonus? You are talking like murder is giving a concert for world peace. Maybe you should read his op again? He just wants one of his ships improved *no matter* if it is balanced at all or not. That being said minor change like drone speed etc. would be ok with me too. But not all proposals were *that* reasonable and i think you must have missed that.
Originally by: doctorstupid2
If he opened pandora's box and you have a short attention span, not my problem.
So now we are resorting to personal attacks? Well you apparently have an academic degree in stupidity - so why bother?
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n0thing
omen.
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Posted - 2007.07.20 11:07:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Litus Arowar
Originally by: n0thing Well, even tho Ishtar is quite balanced and has great versatility. Yeah, bonus isnt used all the time like Vagabond uses its 4 all the time.
Well, if to look for an alternative to that bonus, then maybe:
- 5% drone volume decrease. - 5% drone signature radius reduction. - 5% drone signature resolution reduction. - 5% thermal drone damage increase(50% overall, 75% for ogres/hammerheads/hobgoblins). - 5% drone speed or tracking or etc.
Not going to argue if current bonus is good or bad, but those are just variations I thought about.
the apoc doesn't use its bonus when it fits artilleries... and other such ridiculous crap
vagabond uses none of its bonuses when you fit it with 2 missile launchers only...
stop this thread, this is NOT a ship that needs fixing
Ok, I didnt say that this ship needs a change. Read my post correctly. I said that if that bonus *might* need a change then heres *ideas* for new one. I wasnt saying ship needs it for sure.
As for rest of your post, it doesnt make any sense. What did you try to say with Apoc with projectiles and Vagabond with missles? I mean you think that Ishtar using drones is like Vagabond using missles? In that case....well...I only can ---
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Akiman
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Posted - 2007.07.20 12:35:00 -
[51]
imo op is right. Since deimos got good bonuses but crap and ishtar has a little crap bonuses but it rocks. so bonuses dont make much issue here. therefore it wont make ishtar a god.but ccp wont do it. thats for sure.
how about fixing covertop ships bonuses
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Neena Valdi
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.07.20 12:54:00 -
[52]
Try using sentry drones if you think the bonus is useless...
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Fuglife
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.07.20 13:00:00 -
[53]
Oh god, you again.... are we gonna see this sort of thread everytime you learn to fly a new ship?
Looking at your chars age we could be in for a very long ride.
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maarud
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.20 13:14:00 -
[54]
More dmg.. NO More rep.. NO
Make the bonus a 5%-10% increase in drone speed or something. That would be cool. Ogre's zooming around like Hammerheads and Hobgoblins that eat inties up.
Maarud.
Proudly a Ex-BYDI member |
Susan Acid
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.07.20 13:28:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Neena Valdi Try using sentry drones if you think the bonus is useless...
The range bonus does not apply to Sentrys.
Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus: +5 km bonus to Scout and Heavy Drone operation range.
It's a pretty useless bonus when it comes down to PvP but the ship itself is fine.Maybe a bonus to Drone speed would be nice but I'm happy as it is.
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DEREK OMGPRIMARY
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Posted - 2007.07.20 14:12:00 -
[56]
I keep returning to EveO just to reply to Murder One threads.
Hai!
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Beef Hardslab
The 5 Amigo's LLC. NxT LeveL
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Posted - 2007.07.20 14:14:00 -
[57]
Poor weak ***lente... will no one help the frenchies? They are so nerfed.
<insert middle-finger emoticon here X 50> Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve:
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.
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Pax Uranus
Sofa.Kingdom
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Posted - 2007.07.20 15:20:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Fuglife Oh god, you again.... are we gonna see this sort of thread everytime you learn to fly a new ship?
Looking at your chars age we could be in for a very long ride.
This post is full of win.
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Zkillz kun
Beets and Gravy Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.20 15:36:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Czcibor Przemo This thread is now about Chocolate ice cream and how to improve it. Sure Vanilla has it's strong points but ignore that ok guys?
Originally by: Czcibor Przemo I clearly stated that this thread was strictly about chocolate ice cream.
Originally by: PWNERIZE Chocolate is an established flavor, pistachio is more of an underdog. Shouldn't we improve pistachio before worrying about chocolate?
ITT we sum up threads in 3 posts
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Rania Serlia
World Order The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2007.07.20 16:00:00 -
[60]
As you said in your first post, all other HACs get a range bonus to their primary weapons system, so I say why should the ishtar be any different?
OMG, I can fit a tracking comp to get the range I get on teh munin, boost munnin with 3rd damage bonus! OMG, I can fit velocity or flight time rigs to get the same range on a cerb, boost cerb with moar rof!
Is the drone range control underpowered compared to other range bonuses? Perhaps. What does it greatly help with? Sentry drones/T2 sentry drones/lights/possibly mediums.
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