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Kronooo
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Posted - 2007.07.22 08:44:00 -
[1]
*Report comming in*
Ferrogel price are at a all time high of 12000 isk p/unit. Material cost of running the advanced reaction ferrogel:
100*Hexite@2100isk j/price 100*Hyperflurite@5500isk j/price 100*FerroFluid@6300isk j/price 100*Prometium@5800isk j/price total cost :1.970.000 isk
Produces: 400 units of ferrogel. sell for 400*12000=4.800.000 isk
Profit per cycle=2.830.000isk daily profit =24*2.83m=67.92m isk
Netto profit around 60m per day per large tower if the fuel costs are included. You'ill make your pos equipment investment back within 2 weeks.
*Report out*
(donated iskies are always nice)
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EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans Zzz
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Posted - 2007.07.22 09:52:00 -
[2]
Nice way to promote your Hexite,Hyperflurite,FerroFluid and Prometium
But yeh, prices are up, and my POS's are in highsec, so I cannot even do reactions (trust me, I tried anchoring them)
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Grim Fantago
Hybrid Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.22 15:43:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Grim Fantago on 22/07/2007 15:43:08 Why not go and build some poses and get uber profit?
Or are you only interested in bringing down ferogel prices?
Also forgot to mention you need like 4x towers to get it done. ____________________
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Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2007.07.22 15:57:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Grim Fantago Also forgot to mention you need like 4x towers to get it done.
That's the part where you buy his intermediates, and/or bring down the price of ferrogel so he can build more cheaply. Still, it's a tip.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.07.22 16:33:00 -
[5]
Kronooo, don't worry. This is a temporary price hike caused by major t2 producers buying up all availible stock on the market. It happens once every week on a small scale and once every month on a large scale because the bigger businesses buy a monthload at a time. Prices will always return to normal within a week or two and if you just put up a buy order around 10,000, it'll probably fill within a week. If prices remain consistently high, as they often do with some of the raw materials, it's just price-fixing by resellers and buy orders are not majorly affected if you don't mind playing the 0.01 isk game for a bit.
These changes are too short-term to make a profit by stepping in to start a new ferrogel reactor. By the time you've got a week's produce ready, the prices will have reset back to normal.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.07.22 17:33:00 -
[6]
hummm prometium for 5800...? and that is still profitable to brew? /raises an eyebrow - putting the gist back into logistics |
Algorithm 5
Caldari Hakata Group Blade.
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Posted - 2007.07.22 18:01:00 -
[7]
You're forgetting that the reaction market runs really laggy.
Because the POS fuel cycles are about a week on reaction pos, it often takes a week for something or another to adjust.
This is also why it can be tricky picking what to react sometimes, because you need to plan for what you think the prices will be in a week from now, not just what the prices are now.
So if it's at 5800 it's probably not profitable NOW, but it might have been last week, or something like that. :)
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Ramblin Man
Empyreum
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Posted - 2007.07.23 00:16:00 -
[8]
To make it easy for the mods. Cross-post
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Kirex
Gallente Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.07.23 01:15:00 -
[9]
Why a week? Couldn't you just empty the silo once a day? Of is that inefficient somehow?
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2007.07.23 02:58:00 -
[10]
Hmmmm
1. Stop manufacturing things needing Ferrogel. 2. Ferrogel gluts and prices drop to normal. 3. Shortage of items using ferrogel goes up in price. 4. cheap ferrogel + expensive items = $$$
thanks for the tip :) Improve Market Competition! |
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.07.23 09:36:00 -
[11]
Ferrogel prices are now back down to 10k and it didn't even take a full day. See what I mean?
As I said, the market goes in phases based on the large buyers eating out the market on a weekly basis for small corps and a monthly basis for large ones. The demand is still there from small fish between purchases to keep the market churning away so you can in fact sell at these highpoints and could make isk purely through market speculation on advanced materials.
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Kronooo
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Posted - 2007.07.23 10:10:00 -
[12]
Well you're right that the prices will come down again, but I cant fully explain the theory that big t2 producers buy up once a month, the market graph doesnt show an quantity spike to justify that at the moment for ferrogel (prehabs a bug). But probaly somebody trying to manipulate the market.
Also I believe that big producers have contracts for that there requirements, safes allot alone on avoiding the slight 1% tax on large quantitys. And still it costs 5000 isk in metarials to react for a unit of ferrogel while it bring between 7000 isk and 10000 isk, thats a 150 to 200% profit, not bad at all.
Note that I didnt post this thread on day one that the price spiked so it has been going for +- 5 days to a week now. Anyway thanks for the helpfull comments sofar, if anybody has other good input, (apart from the people trying to get the thread locked because there bis. is getting harmed) I would like to hear it.
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Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2007.07.23 11:48:00 -
[13]
Quote:
Also I believe that big producers have contracts for that there requirements, safes allot alone on avoiding the slight 1% tax on large quantitys. And still it costs 5000 isk in metarials to react for a unit of ferrogel while it bring between 7000 isk and 10000 isk, thats a 150 to 200% profit, not bad at all.
Uh,, I'd like to know who your math teacher was :/
You get a 150-200% return, but only 30-100% profit.
And besides, 5000 isk in materials doesnt factor in the PoS running costs, which, if i recall correctly, will add another 160 isk to manufacturing costs. It's not much, but it's still an additional cost.
For the record, I'm *assuming* you're only running one reactor here simply coz when I reacted some more basic things I could only hook up 5 silos, a large reactor and a medium reactor. Improve Market Competition! |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.07.23 19:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kronooo Well you're right that the prices will come down again, but I cant fully explain the theory that big t2 producers buy up once a month, the market graph doesnt show an quantity spike to justify that at the moment for ferrogel (prehabs a bug).
Actually, if you check the volume on the market at reasonable prices against the sale volumes per day, you'll note that approximately 300-500k of ferrogel per day is sold and not much more than double that is actually on the market for reasonable prices at any one time. This shows that the market doesn't retain a ton of ferrogel as it does with things like trit but the market throughput is quite high. Ferrogel is typically placed on the market and sold within the week.
Now look at the price history and you'll see that around the times when the max purchase price rises high, there are purchases far in excess of 500k. In this case, two different days one day apart saw over 1m ferrogel sold, depleting the market temporarily and raising the lowest sale price. Inventors and small-time manufacturers are willing to pay whatever is charged, so there is sale capacity before prices return to normal.
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Algorithm 5
Caldari Hakata Group Blade.
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Posted - 2007.07.24 20:28:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kirex Why a week? Couldn't you just empty the silo once a day? Of is that inefficient somehow?
Ultimately (assuming stable prices and ignoring tower costs) the competition in reactions is a game of chicken.
It gets less and less profitable on a per-playing-hour basis, until eventually people start bailing out. First time I tried, before invention, using only a badger II, I bailed out when my profits went under 5m per playing hour.
Apparently there were other people doing it more efficiently than me :)
Moon logistics is also not fun at all, it's high volume (in m3 terms) stuff. Anyone doing it without a freighter has my sympathy.
Anyone can make money in a glut, but the only way you stay profitable in the end game is by being as time-efficient and silo-efficient (for those that understand what I mean) as you possibly can, much in the same way that in PVP you are adding up a 5% bonus here, and a 5% resist there.
If you emptied the silos daily, you would increase the amount of work involved by a significant margin.
Instead of one weekly visit to a tower, taking in fuel and reaction inputs and removing reaction outputs, you end up with seven visits to the tower.
7 times the work and 7 risky extra trips (or carrier jumps) across the high-sec to 0.3 boundary, just so you can ride the market a little better.
Maybe for a one-off spike I'd take the time, but otherwise it's just too much work to do it at any sort of scale.
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