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Kage Psychodin
Caldari The Empire Nation Knights Of Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.07.23 09:45:00 -
[1]
Can sometime in the forseeable future, can we get a Drake Hull Command ship? Seriously, I love my drake, but the nighthawk just lacks the extra highslot missile hardpoint, and the vulture as well to be even comparable. the powergrid and shield base is inferior, even if we get better damage out of it. (the 6/4 med/low also means the drake can technically still tank better) Another one bites the dust. |
Gee'Kin
Tha Specialz
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Posted - 2007.07.23 09:48:00 -
[2]
uh no. .and uh no.. NH is fine as it is.. Would be nice tho to swap the drake hull for the NH :P
Luv ur idee.. but nono from ccp for sure. --------------------------------------------> Plz tickle my brain. I wanna have a Brainfart ! -------------------------------------------->
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NoNah
Marzipan Monkeys Distant Star Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.23 09:51:00 -
[3]
It might just me becoming paranoid or something, but is this actually people posting these threads or some kind of internet worm? Have the space whales finally gotten the upper hand? Or is it just random people logging in, finding it a good idea to post a random thread, that given its been 8 months for it to breed, theres always a thousand copies of?
Drake and T2 Drake threads are making Mission runner raven threads a minor issue. Makes T2 BS threads look non-existant and threads about tiller rare!
Post count: 297995
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ImMerely Avessel
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Posted - 2007.07.23 20:52:00 -
[4]
NH is fine, if you want to feel uber fly a titan.
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Sedai Hara
Caldari The Forsakened Companions Storm Armada
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Posted - 2007.07.23 21:53:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Kage Psychodin Can sometime in the forseeable future, can we get a Drake Hull Command ship? Seriously, I love my drake, but the nighthawk just lacks the extra highslot missile hardpoint, and the vulture as well to be even comparable. the powergrid and shield base is inferior, even if we get better damage out of it. (the 6/4 med/low also means the drake can technically still tank better)
1# the Nh is hte ultimate PVE mobile, only a faction pimped CNR can out-dmg it, but if you do same to it, the NH will treat you even better. Nh looks sweet too, very sweet.
2# Never look down on the vulture, its a great ship just that it needs skills, player skills and time to get it right. + it got the best tank sub-capital in game for a very cheap price. also it cna snipe with the BSes in a fleet battle while giving bonuses, an it can solo too with blasters and a faction active tank. only thing i would love is another high-slot + turret hardpoint + the PG to handel it, but that goes for all caldari rail boats exept rohk :/. Also a vulture looks sweet, and tanks waaaaaaaaaaay better than a drake.
yes i fly all 3 ships as a side note.
And who can complain on a full neutron II / NOS and heavy tank on a command ship without any fitting modules?? its very easy to fit. (vulture that is) -----------------------------
Originally by: Ozzie Asrail A mega without 3 magstabs fitted is like kladdkaka without chocolate.
Kladdkaka = Chocolate cake fyi. Swede ftw! |
slothe
Caldari 0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.07.23 22:09:00 -
[6]
sure, if we get a hurricaine and myrmidon..
mmm myrmidon with ishtars bonus.. yummy.
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Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2007.07.23 22:12:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Kage Psychodin Can sometime in the forseeable future, can we get a Drake Hull Command ship? Seriously, I love my drake, but the nighthawk just lacks the extra highslot missile hardpoint, and the vulture as well to be even comparable. the powergrid and shield base is inferior, even if we get better damage out of it. (the 6/4 med/low also means the drake can technically still tank better)
Do you fly the Nighthawk? Your post makes me seriously doubt that. If you need confirmation that the Nighthawk is better than a Drake, let me know and I will be happy to 1 vs. 1 with you. Actually, that would be pointless, since neither of us could break the other's tank 1 vs. 1, so ignore that. However, as a pilot of both Caldari command ships (and minnie ones), saying that the Drake is in the same class is incorrect. It's a nice ship, but it doesn't have the tank of a Nighthawk, let alone the Vulture. I would like to see the command ship shields brought even with the new battlecruisers, and would definitely like to see another turret on the Vulture and Ferox, but adding another missle launcher to the Nighthawk would probably overpower it. It already outdamages the Drake by a fair amount, especially vs. small targets.
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Stargazed
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Posted - 2007.07.23 22:16:00 -
[8]
The NH is fine...spend some more skillpoints in missile support and CS5 and this ship will show u some love.
As for the Vulture..all I ask is one more turret point..is it too much to ask for the love of god and all things holy?
Let us pray: grant us the gift of one more turret point for the vulture, peace be with you
amen
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LaCoHa
The Carebear Stare
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Posted - 2007.07.23 22:22:00 -
[9]
NH is fine. It is a great ship...
The vulture on the other hand - well... it just can not do enough damage imo. And anyone who says blasters on a vulture is the PVP solution is just plain wrong.
+ 1 turret on vulture please.. or give it a damage bonus.
thanks,
LaCoHa
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lofty29
Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2007.07.23 22:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: slothe sure, if we get a hurricaine and myrmidon..
mmm myrmidon with ishtars bonus.. yummy.
Drool ---
Project Mayhem WTS : Faction Lewt |
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KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.07.23 22:28:00 -
[11]
Quote: Never look down on the vulture, its a great ship just that it needs skills, player skills and time to get it right. + it got the best tank sub-capital in game for a very cheap price. also it cna snipe with the BSes in a fleet battle while giving bonuses, an it can solo too with blasters and a faction active tank. only thing i would love is another high-slot + turret hardpoint + the PG to handel it, but that goes for all caldari rail boats exept rohk :/. Also a vulture looks sweet, and tanks waaaaaaaaaaay better than a drake
Actually the rokh has the best non capital tank in game.
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Stargazed
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Posted - 2007.07.23 22:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy
Quote: Never look down on the vulture, its a great ship just that it needs skills, player skills and time to get it right. + it got the best tank sub-capital in game for a very cheap price. also it cna snipe with the BSes in a fleet battle while giving bonuses, an it can solo too with blasters and a faction active tank. only thing i would love is another high-slot + turret hardpoint + the PG to handel it, but that goes for all caldari rail boats exept rohk :/. Also a vulture looks sweet, and tanks waaaaaaaaaaay better than a drake
Actually the rokh has the best non capital tank in game.
it got the best tank sub-capital in game for a very cheap price. quoteunquote! hence its got the best tank sub-capital in game for a very cheap price - cheaper in total due it its 75m price tag versus the rokhs 145m price tag. You want the truth? YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH
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KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.07.23 22:57:00 -
[13]
How exactly is a vulture cheaper then a rokh.... you loose the vulture and you don't get half its value in insurance back, while rokh will pay you 150 mil in insurance. If you ask me the cost is the same.
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Stargazed
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Posted - 2007.07.23 23:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy How exactly is a vulture cheaper then a rokh.... you loose the vulture and you don't get half its value in insurance back, while rokh will pay you 150 mil in insurance. If you ask me the cost is the same.
i was being pedantic
altho u will be primaried more often than not in a tier 3 bs, so it really depends
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DarkElf
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.07.23 23:12:00 -
[15]
no, just no. They have ridiculous tanks that can function with zero cap. yes caldari CS's are the lowest dps but they more than make up for it with the tanks.
DE
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Waxau
Amarr Liberty Rogues Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.23 23:16:00 -
[16]
Trust me here - Vulture outtanks a rokh.
They're all fine, although the vulture (being the split off from the ferox) does need to be updated (extra turret) just as the ferox does. But its tank, and therefore in general is fine. Just could do with a tweak. But the Nighthawk?! Dear god man, fly the ship, then complain!
And whilst we're at it, ALL field command ships are slightly gimped to their tier 2 variants minus the hurricane, but i could be wrong there. Drake does similar dps to the nighthawk, with a similar tank, with 10x less skill investment. Myrmidon outdamages an Eos i believe. Harbinger does similar damage to an absol if im not mistaken too (i think?)
So dont get confused between one needing a boost, and others needing a nerf. And no im not screaming for a nerf, just pointing stuff out.
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ForumPosterAlt
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Posted - 2007.07.24 01:11:00 -
[17]
2 extra turret hardpoints ffs. Ferox is a either or ship. So you couldn't rightly call it a railboat. Vulture though, come on, DOUBLE bonus to rails. Its a rail boat, and severely lacks behind even an Eos in DPS simply because of its lack of turrets. I wouldn't be surprised if people still fit it with 5x launchers. :P
For level 4 missions in a command ship, if you use any missiles at all it had better be a nighthawk or you won't land a single missile on those enemy battleships. Meaning if you fly the vulture you might as well just go 5 launchers 2 rails or 5 rails/blasters and nos.
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KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.07.24 01:25:00 -
[18]
Edited by: KD.Fluffy on 24/07/2007 01:28:30
Quote: Trust me here - Vulture outtanks a rokh.
They're all fine, although the vulture (being the split off from the ferox) does need to be updated (extra turret) just as the ferox does. But its tank, and therefore in general is fine. Just could do with a tweak. But the Nighthawk?! Dear god man, fly the ship, then complain!
And whilst we're at it, ALL field command ships are slightly gimped to their tier 2 variants minus the hurricane, but i could be wrong there. Drake does similar dps to the nighthawk, with a similar tank, with 10x less skill investment. Myrmidon outdamages an Eos i believe. Harbinger does similar damage to an absol if im not mistaken too (i think?)
So dont get confused between one needing a boost, and others needing a nerf. And no im not screaming for a nerf, just pointing stuff out.
Nope waxxu, rokh out tanks vulture by a good amount. Show me your setup that can out-tank a rokh please.
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Waxau
Amarr Liberty Rogues Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.24 06:47:00 -
[19]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy Edited by: KD.Fluffy on 24/07/2007 01:28:30
Quote: Trust me here - Vulture outtanks a rokh.
They're all fine, although the vulture (being the split off from the ferox) does need to be updated (extra turret) just as the ferox does. But its tank, and therefore in general is fine. Just could do with a tweak. But the Nighthawk?! Dear god man, fly the ship, then complain!
And whilst we're at it, ALL field command ships are slightly gimped to their tier 2 variants minus the hurricane, but i could be wrong there. Drake does similar dps to the nighthawk, with a similar tank, with 10x less skill investment. Myrmidon outdamages an Eos i believe. Harbinger does similar damage to an absol if im not mistaken too (i think?)
So dont get confused between one needing a boost, and others needing a nerf. And no im not screaming for a nerf, just pointing stuff out.
Nope waxxu, rokh out tanks vulture by a good amount. Show me your setup that can out-tank a rokh please.
All Meds = large shield extenders, 1 active em hardener, 4 spr II, 2 purger rigs. Tanked 3 thanatos in it before, and held at 23% shield.
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FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.07.24 07:23:00 -
[20]
Vulture is teh sex <3
I agree that it could potentially do with an extra turret slot though.
Drake is fine. Not flown the Nighthawk (yet).
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.07.24 07:41:00 -
[21]
One more turret wouldn't do much good, you're supposed to use three gang mods with a vulture...
------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
Marcus Starr
Chosen Path FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.24 07:42:00 -
[22]
Currently flying the Nighthawk and it's awesome. Anyone who thinks a Drake can spew out more dmg. is sorely mistaken. As for the Vulture, I can't wait until I have the skills to use it. An extra turret slot or two for the Vulture would be nice in small gangs, but for fleets, I'd probably end up with at least 3 warfare link modules. Also, a Vulture might actually be cheaper than a Rokh wouldn't it? Rokh's insurance cost and fittings can be more expensive than the cost of a Vulture and fittings, right?
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Bentula
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Posted - 2007.07.24 09:59:00 -
[23]
Nobody even got what the op meant imho. He isnt saying the nighthawk is bad or should be changed. He just points out that the nighthawk clearly isnt based on the drake but on the ferox instead which hurts it more than others. Also he points out that the NH has inferior fitting, hp and even weapons compared to drake. Those are all facts, most apply to all CS vs tier 2 BCs, not much to discuss about it.
I also would prefer a little bit of consistency in this issue.
For example a sleipnir has more guns, much more alpha, more grid and cpu, t2 resists and a tanking bonus, aswell as same amount of slots. Also it basicly doesnt have less slots for tanking due to being able to fit oversized shield booster vs the canes dual rep.
Summary: Major dps increase(yes you can count a falloff bonus as a extra damage bonus in most situations), major tank increase(shares weakness in cap though), both 18 slots.
However nighthawk has less pg(even after fitting the one launcher drake has over the NH it still got more pg), less weapons(less alpha, in many gang situations you will only get one volley off at a target), less tanking slots much less hp in the tanked part and even 1 less slot overall.
Summary: Major damage increase(quite comparable to what the sleip gains over the cane), minor tank increase if passive tanked, drake has 18 slots, NH only 17
Say what you want but the difference between a NH and a drake is smaller than between any other tier 2 BC and its combat CS counterpart. And thats not due to the nighhawk being bad but due to the drake being very good.
Most of that stirrs from three things:
1. NH has 1 tanking slot less, thats quite a big deal. Its not able to fit a 3 LSE + 2 invul + em hardener tank and has less shield hp with same recharge to start with. This is cumulative with 2: 2. The nighthawk has less rigslots like every t2 ship, however they play a significant role for passive shieldtankers. 3. The drake shares the nighthawks tanking bonus, which reduces the tanking difference between the two ships to the NHs t2 resists.
Drake tanks 430 dps on its weakest resist and 580dps average while having over 25k shields in a DD proof fit that i like. 700dps average tanked with 17k shields in a max recharge fit not DD proof.
Similar fit on NH tanks(one less rig and extender due to grid and less slots) about 540 dps on weakest resist and 716 dps average with 17k shields, and is not DD proof. If we go max recharge fit we get 843dps average tanked with 13k shields.
So in many case you will die faster in a NH than in a drake due to the much bigger shields, the NH only shines in sustained tank situations, which could be summed up to pve and the small dps window mentioned above. Arguably the NH is the better ship but it hurts to see it outdone in even one aspect by its "little brother".
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Rinaldo Titano
Caldari Domus Fatalis FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.24 11:05:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: KD.Fluffy Edited by: KD.Fluffy on 24/07/2007 01:28:30
Quote: Trust me here - Vulture outtanks a rokh.
They're all fine, although the vulture (being the split off from the ferox) does need to be updated (extra turret) just as the ferox does. But its tank, and therefore in general is fine. Just could do with a tweak. But the Nighthawk?! Dear god man, fly the ship, then complain!
And whilst we're at it, ALL field command ships are slightly gimped to their tier 2 variants minus the hurricane, but i could be wrong there. Drake does similar dps to the nighthawk, with a similar tank, with 10x less skill investment. Myrmidon outdamages an Eos i believe. Harbinger does similar damage to an absol if im not mistaken too (i think?)
So dont get confused between one needing a boost, and others needing a nerf. And no im not screaming for a nerf, just pointing stuff out.
Nope waxxu, rokh out tanks vulture by a good amount. Show me your setup that can out-tank a rokh please.
All Meds = large shield extenders, 1 active em hardener, 4 spr II, 2 purger rigs. Tanked 3 thanatos in it before, and held at 23% shield.
Agree with Waxau, the Vulture can outtank the rokh. dont have the exact number, but i would deliver soon :) http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9741/rinaldo2ir8.jpg |
Cs3Sl2
Caldari Apogee Group Ultio Animi Causa
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Posted - 2007.07.24 11:41:00 -
[25]
O.o
Personally i love the Nighthawk and Vulture
The Vulture Puts on a mean tank for close up combat and a is a good sniper for gang support
Granted i died in the end but with: 5 x Heavy missile launcher 1 x med NOS 1 x Shield Harmonizing Link
1 x Scram 4 x Large Shield Extender II's 1 x Passive EM II thing
1 x BCS 3 x Shield Recharge for Cap recharge II's
1 x Shield extender rig 1 x Shield Recharge Rig
Bare in mind i was in a small gang and This lil' nut tanked a DOMI(Armour) - HUNGIN - CERB - Istar all with damn TII Orges lol
Its tanked held at 50 - 55% until they swithced to EM missiles and they destroyed my CAP so my warfare link shut off. This ship can solo tank (any that iv found) any other non-cap ship, it even sat there and laughed at 3 pirates in T2 drakes. Its not meant for DPS at all so dont use it for it. You could sit at 120KM out Sniping you enemies while boosting your gang...
A TII fitted Nighthawk Can solo level 4's as good as any other ship out there BAR a faction fitted CNR / Raven but hey im not one to spend a bil on a 100 mil ship...
And for PvP the NH is a great Ship, it has about the same DPS as the Drake and with its T2 resists it has a good tank. Im not saying that its as good as the other races command ships but give it the right Role and its a great ship...
If you want to go Solo'ing then train Gallente
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VaderDSL
Caldari Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:11:00 -
[26]
Originally by: LaCoHa NH is fine. It is a great ship...
The vulture on the other hand - well... it just can not do enough damage imo. And anyone who says blasters on a vulture is the PVP solution is just plain wrong.
+ 1 turret on vulture please.. or give it a damage bonus.
thanks,
LaCoHa
Nah, they need the command ship weapon bonus removing and replacing with a bonus to reduce cap use on warfare links on all Fleet command ships.
Fleet command ships should be specialised in warfare links, they aren't at the moment, it is hard work fitting 3 warfare links a tank and guns, they fleet command ships also need the hit point increase like the T2 battlecruisers got
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