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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Rrebel
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Posted - 2007.07.23 23:20:00 -
[1]
Yes this is a great idea get rid of these macro miners. Those of us that real spend time in Eve and having a hard time in empire to mine to build thing with all the macro miners around. You can almost all the time spot a macro miner toon by his name.It usually something like they just hit keys on the keyboard in most cases. We have reported this to CCP but they say they will check into it but never do one thing about it. Sure your rules are no Macro miners but it would actually be nice if you guys and gals at CCP would actually enforce it or are these macro miners CCP personnels friends or employees and it why nothing is being done. I hate to say this but when me and my friends see this we let the macro miner get going a bit then when we think he afk we destroy his can or move his ore to another can breaking the chain. Its a shame when CCP WILL NOT enforce its own rules and the players have to take action. Do the land of EVE a favor CCP do something please or strike that rule from ccp and aloud everyone to macro mine and not just a chosen few ! ! This would improve EVE greatly !
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Tolomea
Gallente 5th Front enterprises New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.07.23 23:27:00 -
[2]
a lot of them arn't actually macros, they are sweat shop workers running multiple accounts, these people arn't technically violating the rules until they sell their profits, also given the simplistic nature of mining it can be quite hard to tell the real players from the farmers
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Professor Wilkins
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Posted - 2007.07.23 23:31:00 -
[3]
I think this game has become corrupt and the EULA is not being enforced, I have many times told CCP about macro miners and they do nothing. So does CCP condone macro mining? if so, then the EULA is a load of rubbish. The game needs a clean sweep and new coding put in place that will stop people breaking the rules. Come on devs please do something good for all of us who love this game. The few spoil it.
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Professor Wilkins
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Posted - 2007.07.23 23:35:00 -
[4]
well even that is not condoned as the isk is sold for real life currency, so it is still EULA violation and should be banned. I know this happens in other MMO games, but it is down to the companies to sort this out.
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Benn Helmsman
Caldari Helmsman Engineering Company
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Posted - 2007.07.24 02:21:00 -
[5]
Always remember:
ISK=GTC GTC=$ ISK=$
Perfectly legal
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2007.07.24 02:25:00 -
[6]
CCP will not comment on specific actions taken against specific players.
If you report someone for anything and still see him around later the only thing you know for sure is that he wasn't banned. You have no way other than asking that player what the results were.
In other words, it's impossible for you to back your claim that CCP does not enforce their EULA and TOS other than by breaking it yourself and have someone report you. You could report yourself but that would be an admission of guilt and let CCP skip the investigation part.
Quote: Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Itto'Ryu
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2007.07.24 03:59:00 -
[7]
Macro miners are hard very hard for ccp to deal with. Many people here have 2-3 accounts. The only thing i can suggest is kill them often and make sure you can live though concords agro.
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Professor Wilkins
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Posted - 2007.07.24 05:10:00 -
[8]
i understand what you are all saying, but characters with funny letters, it proves what they are doing. if it is going to be hard to stop them, then why not CCP design there own macro facility that all can do it then. Other games have it with limited functions so no one is taking liberties.
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xRazoRx
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2007.07.24 11:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Benn Helmsman Always remember:
ISK=GTC GTC=$ ISK=game time
Fixed for ya :\
Death is only the beginning... |
WGAnubis Marrith
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Posted - 2007.07.24 14:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Professor Wilkins I think this game has become corrupt and the EULA is not being enforced, I have many times told CCP about macro miners and they do nothing. So does CCP condone macro mining? if so, then the EULA is a load of rubbish. The game needs a clean sweep and new coding put in place that will stop people breaking the rules. Come on devs please do something good for all of us who love this game. The few spoil it.
You want to see a corrupt game and non inforced EULA? Go spend some time in games operated by SOE. Compared to them EvE and CCP should be the templete that all MMO's should be run under.
Whats interesting though is that the macro miners myself and my corp have reported in our area of interest have all dissapeared within days of us reporting them. This is in empire space mind you and we have the system practicaly to ourselves now so they do take care of the macro miners/afk/sweat shop miners, though admittedly it may have something to do with the GM that you get to take care of your case. Is he going to do his job or just blow it off and assume the players arnt going to notice.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
MetaForge Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.07.24 14:17:00 -
[11]
Being AFK miner is completely legal I think. Sweat shop too. Its just bannable to sell ISK for real $. AFK mining has so low profit potential that I herbly doubt many ISK traders do that.
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.07.24 15:40:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Professor Wilkins i understand what you are all saying, but characters with funny letters, it proves what they are doing. .
No it doesn't.
We live in the Yahoo generation. Sometimes it seems like 1/2 the people born this year had numbers in their names:
Name: Susy1276 Christenson Born: July 22rd, 2007 Weight:
(well, you get the idea)
Numbers and odd spellings are NORMAL due to so many people trying to have different "nicknames" than others, those names will spill into the game even though it is like a dagger in some of us that try to at least put some creativity and thought into it.... <-----------> Factional Warfare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
Professor Wilkins
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Posted - 2007.07.24 16:45:00 -
[13]
Yes I have played SOE games and I am aware of what goes on there, the problem is that whatever the isk seller motives, it stops other players who enjoy mining for pleasure and if a player is into manufacturing then we are forced to buy their mins. Ok I could go to low sec and mine, but then it is legal for a player to come and long and pirate, so I do stay in high sec for low ends. I enjoy eve, I think it is a great game, i think CCP need to implement something that will appeal to everyone, either increase spawn rates, make new players join a player corp after a certain amount of time(not popular i know). If a genuine player is mining belts, then fair play.
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Yamichi Wiggin
Caldari Rising Knights SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.24 17:29:00 -
[14]
A: An actual macro is a EULA violation B: Most of the "macros" aren't macros- as said, they're sweat shop players. C: With a quarter million accounts, each account with 3 characters possible, how exactly do you expect people to NOT come up with oddball names? Your name has TWO R's!! Are you a macroer? That's obviously a fake name... see where this is going? D: The fact that stealing from jet cans is not criminal flagged and not preventable is CCP's response to macros. Basically, they want the players to enforce the rules. E: I'm a carebear with a fully loaded Hulk and I can make tons of cash even though the macros exist. Competition is good for you.
your /cry button is stuck. ------ Pain is weakness leaving the body.
There is no love in fear |
Rrebel
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Posted - 2007.07.24 20:46:00 -
[15]
Any program that automatically mines or moves the minerals from ship to can or automatically does anything in Eve repeatedly that is normally done with your mouse or keyboard and is not of the original Eve client is a macro and not sweat shop. Personally I do not know what a sweat shop is in Eve but if it is anything at all like what I mentioned above then it is still a macro just calling it another name does not change that fact and is against Eula rules. As for the funny names this is an example of a macro miner name ( hjfgde ) not a name with symbols around it in most cases.
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Cornucopian
Gallente Dutch Omega
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Posted - 2007.07.24 21:21:00 -
[16]
ccp could learn from blizzard in this area. (bear with me)
blizzard posts news every now and then that they banhammered 10k accounts, confiscated x millon gold etc: this is a good way to show they ARE doing things. The community would enjoy these messages every now and then.
CCP is doing stuff, we just dont hear about it. ----------------------------------------------- "Yes... I sleep with my myrmidon. It's nothing to be ashamed of!" |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.07.24 21:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Rrebel Any program that automatically mines or moves the minerals from ship to can or automatically does anything in Eve repeatedly that is normally done with your mouse or keyboard and is not of the original Eve client is a macro and not sweat shop. Personally I do not know what a sweat shop is in Eve but if it is anything at all like what I mentioned above then it is still a macro just calling it another name does not change that fact and is against Eula rules. As for the funny names this is an example of a macro miner name ( hjfgde ) not a name with symbols around it in most cases.
We full well know what a macro is, we are doubting you are capable of identifying them. Most of the "macros" are actaully someone running 4-5 computers which (as long as they don't use macro software) is NOT against the rules.
As for funny names like you just listed, even they are no indication for sure. I personally know three players that used that type of name just because they didn't know what else to do; and have identified plenty of potential macros that have ordinary names.....
Why are so many "macros" alive and well? Most likely because they respond to CCP's GMs when they get convo'd (hence no proof) and they can't prove they are selling the ISK. Without proof you can't ban them without ****ing off legitimate customers. <-----------> Factional Warfare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.07.24 21:25:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Cornucopian ccp could learn from blizzard in this area. (bear with me)
blizzard posts news every now and then that they banhammered 10k accounts, confiscated x millon gold etc: this is a good way to show they ARE doing things. The community would enjoy these messages every now and then.
CCP is doing stuff, we just dont hear about it.
CCP could post next week that they banned 5k players too, to what end? It "proves" nothing other than publicity. Especially when you can find hundreds of them on Blizzard's servers a week after they make the announcements (hence I don't believe them). <-----------> Factional Warfare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
Lemptie
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Posted - 2007.07.24 21:54:00 -
[19]
CCP only have to make a program,that will scan your pc for macro programs. When you have one you can`t play EVE . A game like american army uses a program called punkbuster,thats a anti macro program.
CCP needs to do someting about it ,not we.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
MetaForge Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.07.24 22:03:00 -
[20]
Scanning peoples computers is against law in some countries and preferences of large portion of player base. There's too little diffrence to troian horse and quite serious risk of causing problems in some systems. And macroers making real money on their venture, can just get or create undetectable (unknown by detector) macro programs.
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Plekto
Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.25 00:16:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Plekto on 25/07/2007 00:21:45 Simple solution: - 1 connection per DNS address. - can only fit civilian miners on trial acounts. - One account per credit card. - Timecards require ID verification through Verisign or similar) or a credit card to work with the account in question.
It needs to stop, because the load and lag it creates is going to just get worse and worse. this does inconvenience some players, but it's a nerf I'd be willing to take to make farmers and macroers gone from the game.
Note - legitimate players could still get two accounts running with a verified timecard and a credit card. Or possibly by applying for a second account with CCP/getting approval. The whole idea is that CCP has verified identities for every player to make sweatshopping and macroing as difficult as humanly possible.
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Verkieg
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Posted - 2007.07.25 06:12:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Verkieg on 25/07/2007 06:12:46 I imagine that isk sellers use trial accounts to transfer the funds. It would be a good idea to limit the amount of isk going into a trial account to 10 millions per week and no more than 1 mil per transfer.
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Plekto
Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.25 22:04:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Plekto on 25/07/2007 22:04:12 Better yet, NO ISK TRANSFERS for trial accounts.
This is supposed to give potential players a feel for the game, nothing more. It's a bit drastic, but no isk transfers and no fitting mining modules on trial accounts would force them to actually pay for full accounts(and greatly cut into their margins). Which CCP could track much easier.
Normal newbie players wouldn't care. You have skills, missions, the tutorial, pvp, complexes... not like they are going to get bored by not being able to mine quickly.(plus it's a TRIAL - not the full thing)
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Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.07.25 22:12:00 -
[24]
my solution: link _________________________________________________
For more players and action in lowsec
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Plekto
Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.25 22:52:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Plekto on 25/07/2007 23:01:43 I thought about my suggestion overnight and I have a more complete/better set of changes:
the problem is free/trial acounts. $15USD is a lot of money in China, which hugely hampers them. In fact, I'd also be tempted to get rid of timecards entirely. They cause far more problems than they solve. And any moron can get an ATM card at a bank that works like a credit card these days. That's how I pay, in fact. My credit is miserable and I can't get credit - but I can do everything with a debit card that I need to do.
CCP knows who I am and I have no problem with that. I've been a (more or less - lol) happy customer for two years. It's the people that they can't verify that are a problem.
- No timecards.
Trial accounts: - No transfers of any kind on a trial account. - No market orders. - No buying t2 equipment. - No buying named modules. - No buying BPOs. - No ability to access contracts. No buying or selling. - One character max on a trial account. - ISK, items, and minerals on a trial account set to *zero* when you become a full account(say give them all 5 advanced learning skillbooks to compensate, plus maybe a Cruiser)
The idea is to strip out the ability to make money off of trial accounts in any way whatsoever. Even if you stockpile money or make a ton of it, you can't transfer it or turn it into anything that ever makes it into the real game. All you keep are your skills. You do get a bonus, though, which is worth maybe 30-50 mil.(well less than the cost of the subscription if the items were converted to money online, but huge for a starting legitimate character)
It's free - they don't like it? Well, pay up like we all did. Any loophole is just going to be exploited, after all - so close them ALL for trial accounts.
Paid accounts: - Phone number required with a full account as well. Or like I said, ID through Versign or similar. Make sure you know that the person paying is a real person. Obviously this will nerf China and a lot of other places, but it needs to be done, IMO, to retain a quality game. No real player is going to be concerned with more security and some identity verification. - No change to multiple accounts for now. Deal with alts and accounts later on.(too big to tackle right now)
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Alexander Sharp
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Posted - 2007.07.26 01:38:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Plekto Edited by: Plekto on 25/07/2007 00:21:45 Simple solution: - 1 connection per DNS address. - can only fit civilian miners on trial acounts. - One account per credit card. - Timecards require ID verification through Verisign or similar) or a credit card to work with the account in question.
It needs to stop, because the load and lag it creates is going to just get worse and worse. this does inconvenience some players, but it's a nerf I'd be willing to take to make farmers and macroers gone from the game.
Note - legitimate players could still get two accounts running with a verified timecard and a credit card. Or possibly by applying for a second account with CCP/getting approval. The whole idea is that CCP has verified identities for every player to make sweatshopping and macroing as difficult as humanly possible.
1 connection per DNS address,One Account Per Credit Card that is stupid I have 3 accounts going. One is my Main I use to do missions when I do mission I log on my Miner and do A little mining and the 3rd one I use to Kill the Rats for my miner Theres no way I would Open up 3 Bank accounts just to pay for Eve that is stupid.
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Nian Banks
Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir
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Posted - 2007.07.26 05:45:00 -
[27]
I think the best way for real players to avoid been called macro/sweat shop miners is for them to avoid calling their ORE pilots, KFMGA1 KFMGA2 KFMGA3 KFMGA4... You see if your a legitimate user and name your characters like that, then you deserve to be banned. Even if its just for been lame.
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Verkieg
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Posted - 2007.07.26 05:51:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Verkieg on 26/07/2007 05:52:27 I like Plekto ideas, very good and elaborate. They should stick some thorns in their wheels.
I also agree with Alexander Sharp. I have two accounts and I'm paying with one credit card. Where I live GTC are sold with 20$ and I can't use PayPal .
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Plekto
Priory Of The Lemon R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.07.27 00:07:00 -
[29]
In an other thread I admitted that the DNS/etc stuff wouldn't work, so it's been officially dropped as too large a ball of wax to deal with now(and an explosive one at that)
But the rest - it boils down to how sweatshops work. They rely on time cards and trial accounts to keep the money flowing. Making trial accounts seriously limited is a big fix. And something that nobody is going to have a problem with, really.
The time card issue, well, we need a way for CCP to know that humans are using them and not trading them. I don't think it's possible, so the easiest method would be to get rid of them. Find another way to deal with it if possible.
Thinking off the top of my head here, so this probably sucks(lol)...
Maybe make it so that in order to redeem time cards, you have to do so via CCP. Call them(800 number(or equivalent in the EU) - and they of course require you to unblock caller ID or something.
They won't authorize cards outside of Europe and North America, regardless. "Ah - I see you are calling from China... we can't authorize this transaction. Please return the card to the store for a refund."
Players in Europe wouldn't have any problem, of course.(don't know if such a system exists in the EU as far as phones go) Cell phones might also be a way to get around it as well. I know, speaking of cell phones, that prepaid phones don't have problems with bogus time cards, so somehow they are keeping it secure. Maybe CCP needs a system like they use.
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Ellaine TashMurkon
MetaForge Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.07.27 07:23:00 -
[30]
Most effective way to harm ISK traders would be banning a lot of their clients and posting a big news about this every week so everybody knows. Also, post about how complex and smart techniques to hide the ISK trade were solved by CCP via reading logs, so no, You are not smarter then other and You will not get away easily by droping expensive implants in cans in space.
People would be affraid to buy, fin.
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