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Oki Riverson
Amarr Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2007.07.24 11:57:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Oki Riverson on 24/07/2007 11:57:00 Well...Have they? Has anyone deployed them in combat to any sort of effect yet? Let me know.
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Waxau
Amarr Liberty Rogues Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.24 11:59:00 -
[2]
Without offending ccp, these bombs were doomed to start - Whilst they looked good on the stats front, it was much like the hawk. Hawks when they were boosted, had a huge price increase, and were known as the Cerb AF, due to their RoF etc.
Bombs are the same thing. Looked good, were needed, but to be quite frank (you can be george if ya like), they lacked purpose, and the excuse given (blob warfare) wasnt viable.
Damn i feel mean busting chops
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jam6549
Iron Hammer Academy Ultio Animi Causa
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Posted - 2007.07.24 11:59:00 -
[3]
not that I can see . they're not that cost effective you see...attempts have been made tho
Jam6549
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duckmonster
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:00:00 -
[4]
Cut them in price by a half and give a big speed boost so the bombers that drop them have a fighting chance to gtfo, then maybe just maybe it'll be worth it.
And give the manticore a forth Cruise missile slot Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected][orange] with a link to your signature (file |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:01:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Waxau Without offending ccp, these bombs were doomed to start - Whilst they looked good on the stats front, it was much like the hawk. Hawks when they were boosted, had a huge price increase, and were known as the Cerb AF, due to their RoF etc.
Bombs are the same thing. Looked good, were needed, but to be quite frank (you can be george if ya like), they lacked purpose, and the excuse given (blob warfare) wasnt viable.
Damn i feel mean busting chops
4 bombs make a raven go POOF. which is kinda fun. but I don't know, because it's useful on sisi, I haven't tried on the main server. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: duckmonster Cut them in price by a half and give a big speed boost so the bombers that drop them have a fighting chance to gtfo, then maybe just maybe it'll be worth it.
And give the manticore a forth Cruise missile slot
actually I agree that ship should be better :P ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP |
Kiyano
Caldari Pilots Of Honour
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:01:00 -
[7]
They're far from cost effective at around 20 mill a bomb. Until a way of reducing the price comes along I sure wont be using them.
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R3dSh1ft
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:01:00 -
[8]
I think the main reason they failed is - double pre-nerf.
They were nerfed in build cost (20m on the market) and in effectiveness vs. small targets - they will take a frigate to about half shield, but they don't have the damage to really hurt a fleet fit battleship, so they can hurt all targets a little, but not enough to make any real difference to the game.
If they un-nerfed it one way or the other (make it so it can hurt small ships more, or quarter the build cost) then they would probably see a lot more use.
DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine |
ReaperOfSly
Gallente Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:02:00 -
[9]
It doesn't help that they're somewhat tricky to use. It's difficult to get 4-5 SB pilots competant enough to deploy the bombs properly. Any less than that, and you're not going to kill anything. --------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally by: F'nog Reaper wins the thread.
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gfldex
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:02:00 -
[10]
Bombs are meant to be used in laggy situations but the ships that drop them don't work in laggy situations. If bombs go off after the ship that dropped them died there may be a use for them. As it is for now they are wasted afford and skill time.
--
There are countless games in the world. There are at least as many ppl that dont like one or more rules of said games. That never stopped smart game designers from creating good games.
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Kappas.
Galaxy Punks
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:02:00 -
[11]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Waxau Without offending ccp, these bombs were doomed to start - Whilst they looked good on the stats front, it was much like the hawk. Hawks when they were boosted, had a huge price increase, and were known as the Cerb AF, due to their RoF etc.
Bombs are the same thing. Looked good, were needed, but to be quite frank (you can be george if ya like), they lacked purpose, and the excuse given (blob warfare) wasnt viable.
Damn i feel mean busting chops
4 bombs make a raven go POOF. which is kinda fun. but I don't know, because it's useful on sisi, I haven't tried on the main server.
4 bombs would also cost you 80m to kill a 100m ship lol
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R3dSh1ft
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Waxau Without offending ccp, these bombs were doomed to start - Whilst they looked good on the stats front, it was much like the hawk. Hawks when they were boosted, had a huge price increase, and were known as the Cerb AF, due to their RoF etc.
Bombs are the same thing. Looked good, were needed, but to be quite frank (you can be george if ya like), they lacked purpose, and the excuse given (blob warfare) wasnt viable.
Damn i feel mean busting chops
4 bombs make a raven go POOF. which is kinda fun. but I don't know, because it's useful on sisi, I haven't tried on the main server.
4 bombs? to kill an npcer? thats just a waste of isk at 80m. To kill actual pvp setups though is going to take you 10-15 bombs - which will include the loss of all your stealth bombers without VERY careful trap pre-planned. But as always such traps are boring time consuming and to be frank its more fun to shoot each other with lasers :)
DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:04:00 -
[13]
Originally by: ReaperOfSly It doesn't help that they're somewhat tricky to use. It's difficult to get 4-5 SB pilots competant enough to deploy the bombs properly. Any less than that, and you're not going to kill anything.
that is why when the first elite bomber wings show up people are going to **** their pants when their navy raven has 6 bombs around them, ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP |
Oki Riverson
Amarr Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:04:00 -
[14]
So are they just another Propergander tool like the Titans?
Example: "Zomg they have a squadron of Bombers coming" etc?
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:05:00 -
[15]
Originally by: R3dSh1ft
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Waxau Without offending ccp, these bombs were doomed to start - Whilst they looked good on the stats front, it was much like the hawk. Hawks when they were boosted, had a huge price increase, and were known as the Cerb AF, due to their RoF etc.
Bombs are the same thing. Looked good, were needed, but to be quite frank (you can be george if ya like), they lacked purpose, and the excuse given (blob warfare) wasnt viable.
Damn i feel mean busting chops
4 bombs make a raven go POOF. which is kinda fun. but I don't know, because it's useful on sisi, I haven't tried on the main server.
4 bombs? to kill an npcer? thats just a waste of isk at 80m. To kill actual pvp setups though is going to take you 10-15 bombs - which will include the loss of all your stealth bombers without VERY careful trap pre-planned. But as always such traps are boring time consuming and to be frank its more fun to shoot each other with lasers :)
10, no. they do... 4000 damage each about, so 5-6. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP |
R3dSh1ft
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: R3dSh1ft
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Waxau Without offending ccp, these bombs were doomed to start - Whilst they looked good on the stats front, it was much like the hawk. Hawks when they were boosted, had a huge price increase, and were known as the Cerb AF, due to their RoF etc.
Bombs are the same thing. Looked good, were needed, but to be quite frank (you can be george if ya like), they lacked purpose, and the excuse given (blob warfare) wasnt viable.
Damn i feel mean busting chops
4 bombs make a raven go POOF. which is kinda fun. but I don't know, because it's useful on sisi, I haven't tried on the main server.
4 bombs? to kill an npcer? thats just a waste of isk at 80m. To kill actual pvp setups though is going to take you 10-15 bombs - which will include the loss of all your stealth bombers without VERY careful trap pre-planned. But as always such traps are boring time consuming and to be frank its more fun to shoot each other with lasers :)
10, no. they do... 4000 damage each about, so 5-6.
with a PROPER setup fleet ship you are getting 120-150k effective HPs
DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: R3dSh1ft
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: R3dSh1ft
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Waxau Without offending ccp, these bombs were doomed to start - Whilst they looked good on the stats front, it was much like the hawk. Hawks when they were boosted, had a huge price increase, and were known as the Cerb AF, due to their RoF etc.
Bombs are the same thing. Looked good, were needed, but to be quite frank (you can be george if ya like), they lacked purpose, and the excuse given (blob warfare) wasnt viable.
Damn i feel mean busting chops
4 bombs make a raven go POOF. which is kinda fun. but I don't know, because it's useful on sisi, I haven't tried on the main server.
4 bombs? to kill an npcer? thats just a waste of isk at 80m. To kill actual pvp setups though is going to take you 10-15 bombs - which will include the loss of all your stealth bombers without VERY careful trap pre-planned. But as always such traps are boring time consuming and to be frank its more fun to shoot each other with lasers :)
10, no. they do... 4000 damage each about, so 5-6.
with a PROPER setup fleet ship you are getting 120-150k effective HPs
heh nvm ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP |
eve warrior
Minmatar Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:09:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kappas.
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Waxau Without offending ccp, these bombs were doomed to start - Whilst they looked good on the stats front, it was much like the hawk. Hawks when they were boosted, had a huge price increase, and were known as the Cerb AF, due to their RoF etc.
Bombs are the same thing. Looked good, were needed, but to be quite frank (you can be george if ya like), they lacked purpose, and the excuse given (blob warfare) wasnt viable.
Damn i feel mean busting chops
4 bombs make a raven go POOF. which is kinda fun. but I don't know, because it's useful on sisi, I haven't tried on the main server.
4 bombs would also cost you 80m to kill a 100m ship lol
BUT can u imagine when u have a group of 20+ bs sitting on a gate in your system and u deploy afew bombs. If 4 can kill a raven, you would rip that entire gang apart with bombers. I dont see what the problem is here, They are supposted to be expencive or ppl would just spam them away.
Eve warrior
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:11:00 -
[19]
Originally by: eve warrior
Originally by: Kappas.
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Waxau Without offending ccp, these bombs were doomed to start - Whilst they looked good on the stats front, it was much like the hawk. Hawks when they were boosted, had a huge price increase, and were known as the Cerb AF, due to their RoF etc.
Bombs are the same thing. Looked good, were needed, but to be quite frank (you can be george if ya like), they lacked purpose, and the excuse given (blob warfare) wasnt viable.
Damn i feel mean busting chops
4 bombs make a raven go POOF. which is kinda fun. but I don't know, because it's useful on sisi, I haven't tried on the main server.
4 bombs would also cost you 80m to kill a 100m ship lol
BUT can u imagine when u have a group of 20+ bs sitting on a gate in your system and u deploy afew bombs. If 4 can kill a raven, you would rip that entire gang apart with bombers. I dont see what the problem is here, They are supposted to be expencive or ppl would just spam them away.
Eve warrior
the problem is that bombs are new and we just wait for people to gain experience with them and for the price to come down due to ME ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP |
Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:17:00 -
[20]
reasons for not using bombs:
1st: too expensive 2nd: their damage is not OMFGWTFBBQ! 3rd: their visual effect is more of a *plop* than a "KAPLAW!"
in sum: they preform horribly for too much of a cost and they aren't cool to watch. For that price I would want a massive explosion gfx effect at least, but as it remains, for 20mil, I prefer to use T2 drones ktxbai. ---
truth about EVE: Quote: "Guns are fine, boost players"
Quote: "Players are fine, boost guns"
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Splagada
Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:18:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Oki Riverson Edited by: Oki Riverson on 24/07/2007 11:57:00 Well...Have they? Has anyone deployed them in combat to any sort of effect yet? Let me know.
i really like your sig :D ------
Proud Janitor of Tides of Silence |
Ulair Memmet
ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:19:00 -
[22]
Originally by: eve warrior
Originally by: Kappas.
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Waxau Without offending ccp, these bombs were doomed to start - Whilst they looked good on the stats front, it was much like the hawk. Hawks when they were boosted, had a huge price increase, and were known as the Cerb AF, due to their RoF etc.
Bombs are the same thing. Looked good, were needed, but to be quite frank (you can be george if ya like), they lacked purpose, and the excuse given (blob warfare) wasnt viable.
Damn i feel mean busting chops
4 bombs make a raven go POOF. which is kinda fun. but I don't know, because it's useful on sisi, I haven't tried on the main server.
4 bombs would also cost you 80m to kill a 100m ship lol
BUT can u imagine when u have a group of 20+ bs sitting on a gate in your system and u deploy afew bombs. If 4 can kill a raven, you would rip that entire gang apart with bombers. I dont see what the problem is here, They are supposted to be expencive or ppl would just spam them away.
Eve warrior
This group of 20+ BS will most surely have a good tank on them which makes the bombs much less effective.
From what i heard here i guess CCP nerf'd bombs on purpuse to see how they will be used etc and prevent ppl from eventually exploiting them. This happened before ->rigs, salvage, Invention(Hulks...).
I will go for bombs as i love stealth bombers :) And the rest should try them too first, before posting in the forums about how bad they are
I never used Ctrl + Q and im PROUD OF IT |
Oki Riverson
Amarr Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:20:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Oki Riverson on 24/07/2007 12:20:27 i really like your sig :D
Ta ^_^
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Delerium Primus
M. Corp M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:22:00 -
[24]
The way to fix the bombs is quite simple. Un-nerf them so they can instapop frigs etc (as frigs should be able to get the hell outta there anyway when a bomb is dropped).
"But then we'll just have fleets of bombers dropping on a gang and dropping multiple bombs - this is just blobbing with stealth bombers instead"..I hear you cry... Yes thats true but the simple way around that is to nerf the bomb so they cannot be launched within 0.5 AU of another bomb, just like probes. So you can launch several bombs, but you need to wait for the first one to explode first.
Del
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R3dSh1ft
Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:22:00 -
[25]
ME research can only give a maximum of 10% reduction in cost.
Lets do some quick calculations on the feasability of bombers in fleet.
Say we have the ability to field at 15-man bomber wing in our fleet.
Each bomber has 3 bombs (2 in launcher, 1 in cargo) -60m Cost of stealth bomber and fit - 10m approx (conservative) Cost of Capsule - varies but 8m as an average
Now warping in your wing of bombers and dropping your bombs is going to cause them all to die. Why? Because the enemy will warp out when you come in - for this reason you need them to be dictored. So your stealth bombers come in, drop bomb, mwd away - but wait its all lagged to hell, damn there go all the bombs, there go all the ships and wake up in station.
So net cost of the tactic is 78m * 15 = 1170m (assuming none of the bomber pilots had implants)
On the other hand we could of used a wing of tackle close range hard hitting Battleships to do the same job, and probably take minimal losses with sniper support. - Much lower ISK loss.
So at what point does it become worthwhile to suicide your 15 bombers? Considering the net loss of a T2 fit insured rigged battleship is around 100m and the close range battleship wing could probably take on 2-1 odds quite successfully, you'll need about 30-40 enemy battleships before it becomes worthwhile. Also doing this would put your wing out of action if you are abroad in hostile space.
DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine |
Waxau
Amarr Liberty Rogues Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:23:00 -
[26]
The only good useage is as throwaway suicide frigs
Scenario : Gate camp on the other side of said gate. You get 8-10 bombers to each jump through, and decloak at once. At which point they all drop a certain type of bomb, and poof - Vaporises the 50+ ships on the gate.
However this in itself is flawed, due to lag.
So imo, CCP making a problem, with a fix, to a problem, which should have been easy to fix.
Confused? I am
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Leika Sinn
Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.24 12:52:00 -
[27]
If a battleship can tank a doomsday blast with one active hardener, and maybe a armor plate, what the heck is a few bombs going to do?
I think CCP kinda messed up the logic on this one.
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Stitcher
Caldari legion of qui Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:07:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Stitcher on 24/07/2007 13:09:56 Edited by: Stitcher on 24/07/2007 13:07:40 It amazes me that people are actually complaining about losing the bomber to its own bombs.
here's a hint - the key is in straight-line hit-and-run warping. You come in from a staging point on one side of your target fleet, drop the bomb, and warp to a safespot, gang member or stellar feature directly in front of you. Most stealth bombers will easily get up to speed and warp out before the bomb goes off, especially if you're smart enough to align before dropping the bomb. Oh, and here's a nice thing - bombing runs work better with warp core stabs, because you don't need to lock anything. Use a covert ops ship as a "spotter" to help you land where you'll do the most damage
basically, a gang of ten pilots - eight in stealth bombers, two in covops or recons - could conceivably become exceptionally deadly, and it'll all be down to piloting skill, not blobbing. Bombs, basically, require actual player piloting skill (and, okay, a fragton of money) to use properly. They're not as easy to use as other weapons.... I like them. ^_^
I would, however, like to see their effective cost drop to something a bit more manageable - like, say, two or three million ISK per bomb. ***
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:15:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Waxau The only good useage is as throwaway suicide frigs
Scenario : Gate camp on the other side of said gate. You get 8-10 bombers to each jump through, and decloak at once. At which point they all drop a certain type of bomb, and poof - Vaporises the 50+ ships on the gate.
However this in itself is flawed, due to lag.
So imo, CCP making a problem, with a fix, to a problem, which should have been easy to fix.
Confused? I am
doesn't work the bomb will kill each other.
bombs have a 95% resisit only to the damage type they deal. ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:21:00 -
[30]
I thought the price of the bombs on market is like a, umm, buy one and bomb away kinda deal...but it's SERIOUSLY 20mil a pop?
So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have. |
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