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Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:28:00 -
[31]
Bombs have there uses.
However its only useful for killing people who are either lagged out to hell, blowing away piles of fighters/drones/frigswarms or for killing idiots.
The problem is this item is ment to kill a blob - but the problem has never been the blob - its been server performance. And the bomb is only really going to kill anything lagged out, so its kinda self defeating. --
Billion Isk Mission |
Kai Lae
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:35:00 -
[32]
Problem with the bomb, is that the build amount per run is 1 bomb, and not 10 bombs. Because of this, the cost is way too high to bother. To compare, a fighter costs about the same amount, however, it's reusable. Way more effective too. Or for that matter you could get 3 T1 cruisers (ruppy, thorax) for the cost of 1 bomb and likely do a better job.
Cruise missiles are the real weapon of bombers, just like before.
Raptor and Ares Fix |
MolRob
Caldari HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:43:00 -
[33]
The problem with bombs is that they dont even denote if the bomber gets destroyed. So the most effective way to counter bombs is to kill the bombers witch dropped them in less than 15 seconds.
Witch on the other hand isnt too hard at all since bombers doesnt tank too well. So there isnt even a point in suiciding. The bomber pilot has so survive.
The only way would be to drop the bombs alligned and warp the f*@k out. Now in this case you cant bubble them and they will just warp.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.07.24 13:48:00 -
[34]
Originally by: R3dSh1ft
with a PROPER setup fleet ship you are getting 120-150k effective HPs
So the Armageddon can't be a proper fleet ship?
------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
Goberth Ludwig
eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.07.24 14:07:00 -
[35]
Half the people in this thread have onviously never used bombs and are embarassing themselves.
The reason bomb are useless is, as said by others, that if the bomber dies the bomb does not go off. Now the problem isnt the other fleet shooting the bombers its the bombs themsleves because right now in eve, if theres anything worth bombing (50+ players) you lag too much to be guaranteed ALL bombers will manage to get out. All it takes is 1 bomber lagging or desync'in and your blast damage will not be enough to kill even a sniper battleship.
- Gob
Now with 20% extra emo! |
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.07.24 14:37:00 -
[36]
No one here is mentioning some of the nastier non-damage-dealing bombs yet - what about the bombs that drain 2000 cap each? Drop ten of those on an enemy fleet and not only do they have absolutely no tank, but they can't even warp out coherently due to their lack of any capacitor to warp to a common celestial object. Combine with a few 'dictor bubbles and lockbreaker bombs (allowing the bombers to get out) and you instantly WTFBBQPWN a fleet. ------------ ULTIMATE LAG SOLUTION IBTL! IBDS/DC! IBTC! 1st in a BoB post! And other such forum tom-foolery. |
cuteboylookingatyou
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Posted - 2007.08.19 21:41:00 -
[37]
I want to launch my own bombs.
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Arenis Xemdal
Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.08.19 21:57:00 -
[38]
Not really. Though I have seen a few interesting (and hilarious) ways to abuse Bombs. I for one, am glad they are fairly irrelevant. AOE weapons are a stupid way to balance broken combat mechanics. Maybe the developers will learn to scale their decision making more.
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Thargat
Caldari S-44
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Posted - 2007.08.19 22:06:00 -
[39]
It would be nice to know if bombers can be put to use during POS warfare.... it might be really nice to drop a few of those off at the anchored structures... like the "lock-breaker" (though I can think of a few more ways to use them).
There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius. |
Sgt Blade
An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.08.20 04:17:00 -
[40]
yeah the changes id like to see on bombs would be
1) make it alot cheaper. not so cheap that you wil lspam them everywhere and insta pop near to everything but worth the time and effort to using them. somwhere around the 10mill mark
2) change how you use them...by making them depolyable your basicly saying to risk your SB which probley has more of those expensive bombs in it cargo not mentioning mods is not cool. that and if the SB is not speed fit its goin to blow up its own ass if not wound it pretty badly leaving it easy pickings for any ships who were watching.
now i can think of 2 ways how they could be used..... lock target, shoot, boom or use it like a "dumb" missle so it shoots out the front of the SB and explodes after 10 secs no lock required but it more of a shoot the bomb out withough locking and it travels on its own and then boom. generally if your goin to shoot it at a blob all you need to do is make sure your at the right distance away from them to shoot it and then your all good
Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5 |
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CCCP lalalalalla
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Posted - 2007.08.20 05:30:00 -
[41]
Fellow nubs a group of smartbombing ravens do a better job of this.
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UGWidowmaker
Caldari The Ankou The Reckoning.
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Posted - 2007.08.20 07:34:00 -
[42]
make the bomb work aslong as the pilot is in the system would help a lot.. atm if the ship is killed wich is quite posible the bomb dies... maybe make it so that if the ship gets killed the bomb detonates imidiatly. and then buff the damage a bit up! should solwe all the props with em. OMFG
I am the widowmaker stay tuned.
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Seph Res
PPN United Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.08.20 08:02:00 -
[43]
main problem seems to be the decreased dmg in order to signature radius, why should i use a 20 mill thing when i do 300gmd to a frig with it, tbh teh good olde smartbomb is the better way to go, as long as a large smartbomb does full dmg to even a ceptor sized craft, there is no use for the dmg bombs,
the fact of energy neutralizers or ecm bombs, well i havent tested it on live server for now but maybe the neutralizerbomb can do some havoc against small compounds of hac sized crafts...
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Lady Caeser
Open Fist of Castallus
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Posted - 2007.08.20 08:09:00 -
[44]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Waxau Without offending ccp, these bombs were doomed to start - Whilst they looked good on the stats front, it was much like the hawk. Hawks when they were boosted, had a huge price increase, and were known as the Cerb AF, due to their RoF etc.
Bombs are the same thing. Looked good, were needed, but to be quite frank (you can be george if ya like), they lacked purpose, and the excuse given (blob warfare) wasnt viable.
Damn i feel mean busting chops
4 bombs make a raven go POOF. which is kinda fun. but I don't know, because it's useful on sisi, I haven't tried on the main server.
4 bombs also cost 80m isk???
the ammo a vagabond uses to kill a raven costs... 40k isk
not to mention that any battleship that actually fits a proper tank/resists will take 10 or more bombs to kill it, and 15km radius is too small to be effective. -------------------------------------- What are you looking at? -------------------------------------- |
murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.20 08:56:00 -
[45]
Bombs are the most useless pile of crap on the planet.
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships |
Ninsoku
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Posted - 2007.08.20 09:11:00 -
[46]
Speed: The speed (cloaked and uncloaked) and agility of Stealth Bombers needs to be substantially increased as it takes too long for them to get in position and/or get out of the blast radius.
Cost: The cost of bombs should be reduced, I would suggest 10 bombs per manufacturing run, effectively taking their cost down to a decent 2 mil isk per bomb.
I'd also like to point out that those saying 4 bombs will kill a battleship are mistaken. Even with base resistances alone and the HP boost you will not take out a decent fitted battleship piloted by a decent skilled player.
Targets of best opportunity are cruisers and battlecruisers.
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Adaris
D-L
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Posted - 2007.08.20 11:16:00 -
[47]
There not cost effective at all to be used on a widescale operation. 20 mil worth of minerals to make each? (rough estimate) EACH! I might as well fly a fitted 20m cruiser that could actually have a chance of taking out a hostile ship. Bombs don't do that much damage by themselves. And en masse its just too expensive a tactic to use to be worth the isk and coordination.
So until something changes... its still blobs in business. *******
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Corporal Clue
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Posted - 2007.08.20 11:28:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Stitcher Edited by: Stitcher on 24/07/2007 13:09:56 Edited by: Stitcher on 24/07/2007 13:07:40 It amazes me that people are actually complaining about losing the bomber to its own bombs.
here's a hint - the key is in straight-line hit-and-run warping. You come in from a staging point on one side of your target fleet, drop the bomb, and warp to a safespot, gang member or stellar feature directly in front of you. Most stealth bombers will easily get up to speed and warp out before the bomb goes off, especially if you're smart enough to align before dropping the bomb. Oh, and here's a nice thing - bombing runs work better with warp core stabs, because you don't need to lock anything. Use a covert ops ship as a "spotter" to help you land where you'll do the most damage
basically, a gang of ten pilots - eight in stealth bombers, two in covops or recons - could conceivably become exceptionally deadly, and it'll all be down to piloting skill, not blobbing. Bombs, basically, require actual player piloting skill (and, okay, a fragton of money) to use properly. They're not as easy to use as other weapons.... I like them. ^_^
I would, however, like to see their effective cost drop to something a bit more manageable - like, say, two or three million ISK per bomb.
It's been a while since I played around with them, but I believe the bombs don't work when you warp out? Either way, they're still not powerful enough for their cost and difficulty of use. The basic idea has a lot of merrit, but they do need to be fiddled with to make them effective generally. Cost definately needs to be looked at, they shouldn't be throw aways but the cost of using enough to kill say a battleship should certainly not be damn near equal to the battleship. As anti blob weapons, their range is too short to really do a lot of damage to a blob that isn't powerballing. If you could warp a stealth bomber out and still have the bomb go off, and maybe double the range, they could become very useful ships for disrupting the enemy as they were intended to be used.
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Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2007.08.20 11:51:00 -
[49]
bombs would be nice if they were like mines ;-P
(then again I would *normally* expect them to be exploding moving *missiles* of some sort)
this is a free post provided to you by a member of the EVE community.
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prathe
Minmatar Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.08.20 17:15:00 -
[50]
tbh bomb should have been mines with proximity fuses and a 5 minute life span they should cost about 1000/isk per
.02
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.20 18:31:00 -
[51]
bombs need to be like torpedoes were in the old days with their current stats of course you launch them and if destroyed on the way there they still deal all their damage as intended - like a failsafe mechanism that activates the bomb on destruction of the shell
mines need to be brought back and work like mines work with the exception that they are very cheap but blowing up one mine would blow up any mines that get affected by blast radius since a disturbance is all it takes to set them off ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn |
MrTripps
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.20 19:13:00 -
[52]
We had an engagement last weekend where the successful use of a bomb turned the fight to our favor. It is a weapon with a small strategic niche, but that is what makes it so useful. I agree with previous posters about the cost and method of deployment. Maybe give stealth bombers a high resistance to bomb damage.
"They must find it difficult... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather then truth as the authority." - Gerald Massey |
CCCP lalalalalla
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Posted - 2007.08.22 17:07:00 -
[53]
Id like the bomberpilot to be a kamikaze auto detonation.
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Rhaegor Stormborn
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Posted - 2007.08.22 17:08:00 -
[54]
No.
You can not lead nor win a war from the forums. |
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.22 17:39:00 -
[55]
Originally by: MrTripps We had an engagement last weekend where the successful use of a bomb turned the fight to our favor. It is a weapon with a small strategic niche, but that is what makes it so useful. I agree with previous posters about the cost and method of deployment. Maybe give stealth bombers a high resistance to bomb damage.
Can you elaborate? I'm interested. ------------ Whiners - Unite! | Posting and You Tarminic - Forum Warfare Specialist. |
Kylegar
Caldari Shadow Of The Light R i s e
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Posted - 2007.08.22 17:45:00 -
[56]
Electron Bomb belonging to Bull Frog hits you, doing 188.1 damage.
Didnt even kill my Pod...
Seriously, Bombs are more expensive to fire than Doomsdays. Maybe if they were 10mil, they would be more useful
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voogru
Gallente Massive Damage
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Posted - 2007.08.22 17:48:00 -
[57]
I think one way to help the bombers is to give the bombers immunity from their own damage type, much like the bombs themselves, so that the bombers dont commit instant suicide by launching a bomb.
If the bombs can have immunity against their own damage type, so should the bomber.
This would also encourage packs of bombers using the same type of bomber for a damage type so they dont blow each other up.
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Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.08.22 18:01:00 -
[58]
Bombs are disappointing, before even going into mechanics, where are the graphical effects for them??
Anyhow my experiance has mostly been testing them on Sisi, my one encounter on TQ - a bomber de-cloaked 8km from my Domininx, he didn't try to run, so I started to lock him him...
Then he exploded.
And for his effort, took 40% off my shields. So yeah, uum, bombs eh?....
(Fix blob mechanics by attacking the causes, not through adding gimmicks such as bombs) ----------
Video - 'War-Machine' |
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.22 18:05:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Gabriel Karade (Fix blob mechanics by attacking the causes, not through adding gimmicks such as bombs)
What do you suggest (Not a flame, honestly, you sound like you have some ideas)? ------------ Whiners - Unite! | Posting and You Tarminic - Forum Warfare Specialist. |
Gabriel Karade
Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2007.08.22 18:46:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 22/08/2007 18:49:15
Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Gabriel Karade (Fix blob mechanics by attacking the causes, not through adding gimmicks such as bombs)
What do you suggest (Not a flame, honestly, you sound like you have some ideas)?
ok, well apologies for what may be percieved of as a thread hi-jack but...
The problem:
æPowerballÆ û a cluster of ships so closely packed they act as one, same range, damage focused onto one target. No manoeuvring, warp in-> align->fire ->warp out.
Chief culprit is clearly the ægang warpÆ û why oh why do ships, mid warp, suddenly bunch together into the powerball? û changing this alone would help significantly, however there are a whole plethora of things can be done:
1/ Change gang warp mechanics, ships become more spread out, as the gang size increases, such that, in large fleets separations of hundreds of Km/s can occur.
2/ Change the warp to ægang mateÆ mechanic û a fixed time delay is a possibility, though this still allows the gang to morph into the powerball û again I think randomisation to the warp-in is required, increasing inaccuracy with increasing ships in one area.
3/ Boost Afterburners significantly. Make them the tool for manoeuvring, keeping transversal up whist keeping the signature radius down. Microwarpdrives would still be desirable for æcharge down the barrels of the gunsÆ setups a.k.a medium and large-sized blaster boats
4/ÆWarp outÆ mechanics.
Controversial this one. But I donÆt believe CCP intended for you to overcome the delay to warping by simply aligning to a celestial object. Soà. remove it, introduce a fixed time delay (your warp engines are charging up) regardless of alignment, probably dependant on ship type (frigates ænippyÆ, Battleships æsluggishÆ, Capitals positively ælumberingÆ), possibly enhanced by skills/modules
5/ Fix the tracking calculations.
Currently no effort is made to model misses at range due to small target cross sections. I refer you to THIS:
Signature radius becomes non-static, at long range smaller target û smaller cross section û reduced hit chance. At point blank range, you canÆt miss a big target. As illustrated in the figure, weapons should have a genuine æcone of accuracyÆ.
(modelling the effects of orbiting and rotation of the hull needs adding too)
6/ Line-of-sight
Whatever it takes to get this needs to be implemented, even if its æquasiÆ-line of sight through some trick û you should not be able to fire through your own powerball and everything else in the path of your target.
7/ Target identification.
This has always been a touchy subject, one of the most common arguments against removing player names is the æit makes it impersonalÆ. Maybe it will, but aside from the RP-aspect (why am I broadcasting a bullseye?) having only æship typeÆ makes it much harder to focus fire on one target (ônearest æScorp!ö only works if everyone is in a powerball with the FC) apart from those æspecialÆ occasions ôPrimary = Titan!ö. Have squad leaders as the only ones doing the tagging û if you identify an enemy squad leader, judicious use of ECM reduces the effectivness of that squad û oh my, tacticsà
8/ Collisions.
Well in the last dev blog they pretty much wrote off looking into the physics engine, but it does need looking into. Collisions should be something to be wary of û further reducing the incentive to pack ships into a small volume
9/ Formations.
Please do something cool with this (itÆs already on the cards)
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Video - 'War-Machine' |
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