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Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
2744
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Posted - 2012.01.11 10:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Think about it.
If you make ores the absolute only source of minerals in the game youll beging to start popualting eve with more targets at least because people will beforced to go out and mine to keep the supply in ships up.
You cant mine for everything yu need in high sec on dmeand thats for darn sure so the only resource option would be low and null.
Though i do realize that yes some alalicnes would probably abuse the hell out o the fact they may control the rights to one mineral but what else more can you do?
Modules and SHip refining you say?
Ships get broken down into thier rig parts, tech 2 ships for tech 2 rig parts, amount of parts will be a bit more of a confettie and more in volume verses a wreck salvage.
Modules when scrapped turn into meta-level parts used to build the metalevel modules for where ever thier bpcs can be dropped or bought at. Which would require the original part to be manufactured still.
And remove all meta 0 loot form npcs replace with no drops or tags or other metalevel items.
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Jafit McJafitson
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
132
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Posted - 2012.01.11 10:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote:Think about it.
If you make ores the absolute only source of minerals in the game youll beging to start popualting eve with more targets at least because people will beforced to go out and mine to keep the supply in ships up.
If rats didn't drop sh*t loot then your idea might have merit, but there's only so many uses for survey scanners, 75mm railguns, and 100 iron charges,
Therefore I consider ratting to be a form of mining, except you get paid for it.
Also no, we get the bulk of our minerals from empire markets, and empire markets probably get it from mining bots, or drone ratting bots |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
40
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Posted - 2012.01.11 12:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
[quote=Nova Fox]Think about it.
If you make ores the absolute only source of minerals in the game youll beging to start popualting eve with more targets at least because people will beforced to go out and mine to keep the supply in ships up.[/quote=Nova Fox]
The only way you seem to be boosting low and null here is trying to force people who dont want to be there, to go there.
From what I can see, this is simply a way to get more carebears and industrial ships into low/null for PvP (well, PvUnarmedBear) players to kill.
While I agree that low sec needs something, this is not going to make the game better for anyone.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Droxlyn
TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate
39
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Posted - 2012.01.11 13:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Reprocessing things should result in no more than 50% at max skills of the 100% efficient BPO input. You should never get 100% back out of useful things, there should be real waste.
If they wanted to be really mean, they would use the volume of the item to determine the maximum volume of minerals recovered and use that %. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
2746
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Posted - 2012.01.11 17:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Well it wouldnt be a silver bullet but it would be a start and a part of a larger solution.
Droxlyn brings up a good comprimise the tax rate should be much higher in high sec for the 'safety' it provides.
Now as for people going to low it seems one of the biggest anti factor is the wall of death syndrom some idiots have created there.
To fix that would be to add gate police and more guns to prevent blockaiding access from high to low. What happens in the belts and in mission sites are sitll the same deal player can get ganked there.
Broader solution was to bring FW to all low sec in one form or another and give additional perks for being a contributing member of the area. Then give pvp missions that encourage going into the neighboring low sec to smash thier players and npcs.
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Droxlyn
TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate
39
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Posted - 2012.01.11 17:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote:Well it wouldnt be a silver bullet but it would be a start and a part of a larger solution.
Droxlyn brings up a good comprimise the tax rate should be much higher in high sec for the 'safety' it provides.
No, I said the full reprocess would be less than the perfect build cost. If a perfect builder takes 100 trit to make it, you'll only get 50 back in the first column. The station efficiency and your tax and skill efficiency would take their cuts from that.
Mineral compression after this would be a real cost trade off since you'll be immediately doubling your per-mineral cost if you do it. |
Goose99
664
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Posted - 2012.01.11 17:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote:buff mining bots
No. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
2746
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Posted - 2012.01.11 18:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
That's a big rash there goose.
I would love to revamp mining into a career that would not only make it hard to bot but hopefully stupid to bot too however this runs the risk of making it too hard for humans.
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TrollFace TrololMcFluf
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
61
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Posted - 2012.01.11 18:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Try forcing people to do something = guess what happens
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
138
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Posted - 2012.01.12 00:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Hi there. I have a nullsec industry alt. I import compressed minerals from highsec, because mining is awful.
You want to make it impossible for me to do this, so I use a jump freighter to haul the finished goods from Jita instead of actually building anything, right? I don't quite get how making doing this mandatory is going to help industry, could you maybe explain it?
Well, this or botting, like the others already said. |
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Callic Veratar
Power of the Phoenix
126
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Posted - 2012.01.12 22:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Droxlyn wrote:No, I said the full reprocess would be less than the perfect build cost. If a perfect builder takes 100 trit to make it, you'll only get 50 back in the first column. The station efficiency and your tax and skill efficiency would take their cuts from that.
Mineral compression after this would be a real cost trade off since you'll be immediately doubling your per-mineral cost if you do it.
I'm not sure where you got the idea that you get 100% of the build cost back from reprocessing. It's closer to 75% as it stands. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
252
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Posted - 2012.01.12 22:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
When/If mining is made less "Stab-Self-in-Eye-With-Spork" then perhaps .. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
2753
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Posted - 2012.01.12 22:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Callic Veratar wrote:Droxlyn wrote:No, I said the full reprocess would be less than the perfect build cost. If a perfect builder takes 100 trit to make it, you'll only get 50 back in the first column. The station efficiency and your tax and skill efficiency would take their cuts from that.
Mineral compression after this would be a real cost trade off since you'll be immediately doubling your per-mineral cost if you do it. I'm not sure where you got the idea that you get 100% of the build cost back from reprocessing. It's closer to 75% as it stands.
I have a near perfect BPO of a product. It almost matches refine rate and its only 1 megacyte short of matching refine.
Either way by making items a lackluster source of minerals would be ideal in forcing others to expand out of highsec.
Overall Ill state it again though this would be a porition of the solution, the incintive portion.
We still need to work on the invitation into low security space because I feel that the 0.5 to 0.4 drop is extremly too steep of a drop of 'omg lack of protection' I mean gate guns should not be an excuse why its a 0.4. That should be like 0.1's excuse. 0.4 should have npc police at the gates at least possibly local and albit delayed police response in the belts that will not be uber wtf like concord and being able to escape those cops if a crime is commited.
I mean I would love to acutally see a chart from 1.0 to -1.0 security and a list of protections that are removed every level down then perks that are added every sec point down.
For example 1.0 No hostile actions allowed. 0.9 Hostile actions allowed. 0.8 Scan Probes allowed. 0.7 ? (cant think of one atm) 0.6 ? (cant think of one atm) 0.5 POS anchoring allowed 0.4 Concord No longer responds, police duties taken over by local police. 0.3 Cynos allowed. 0.2 Stationslose guns. 0.1 Gates lose guns. 0.0 Local Police do not respond, security hits do not happen.
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Misanthra
Alternative Enterprises
29
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Posted - 2012.01.12 23:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote:[quote=Callic Veratar][quote=Droxlyn]Either way by making items a lackluster source of minerals would be ideal in forcing others to expand out of highsec..
how so? it make em say screw indy more likely. Low/0.0 ops need a bit more than an badger II. talking JF support if done right or they could spend half their time camp dodging in tranports. JF costs and training has it well out of reach of 1-2 year players. If not the jf, actual experience to live out of empire and not die as much. Hell even a good blackbook of bm's out of empire can be months in the making. And thats after you have bitter vets show you the ropes.
You'll be forcing people somewhere. Forcing them to find a new game that doesn't blatantly cut off a major aspect of a game to new players. MArkets and "auction houses" usually a key feature of any mmo that can be make or break for continued subs. Most games have this open access for that reason. Noob wants gold, they spam craftingand sell to make some side money. Players gets added content usable day 1, game company gets a customer for 1 more month so its win win. Eve has this as well. Best if kept that way really imo.
And what of drone space? Your rat alignment doesn't affect them. Rogue mining drones drop minerals, in a somewaht compressed format. You aren;t changing that. Rogue mining drone fluff and technical wise can drop nothing else but minerals. One day ordinary mining drone, next day circuits cross and weapon of destruction. With a fresh load of crystal it had when it went berzerk. Want to make the botters of drone space richer this a damn good way to make that happen. Fix mining however you want...drone space will still have mining by blowing up ships. JF filled with crystals...hits empire and voila nice russian and pet injections of high ends that were easy to carry in. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
2753
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Posted - 2012.01.13 02:29:00 -
[15] - Quote
Misanthra wrote:Nova Fox wrote:[quote=Callic Veratar][quote=Droxlyn]Either way by making items a lackluster source of minerals would be ideal in forcing others to expand out of highsec.. how so? it make em say screw indy more likely. Low/0.0 ops need a bit more than an badger II. talking JF support if done right or they could spend half their time camp dodging in tranports. JF costs and training has it well out of reach of 1-2 year players. If not the jf, actual experience to live out of empire and not die as much. Hell even a good blackbook of bm's out of empire can be months in the making. And thats after you have bitter vets show you the ropes. You'll be forcing people somewhere. Forcing them to find a new game that doesn't blatantly cut off a major aspect of a game to new players. MArkets and "auction houses" usually a key feature of any mmo that can be make or break for continued subs. Most games have this open access for that reason. Noob wants gold, they spam craftingand sell to make some side money. Players gets added content usable day 1, game company gets a customer for 1 more month so its win win. Eve has this as well. Best if kept that way really imo. And what of drone space? Your rat alignment doesn't affect them. Rogue mining drones drop minerals, in a somewaht compressed format. You aren;t changing that. Rogue mining drone fluff and technical wise can drop nothing else but minerals. One day ordinary mining drone, next day circuits cross and weapon of destruction. With a fresh load of crystal it had when it went berzerk. Want to make the botters of drone space richer this a damn good way to make that happen. Fix mining however you want...drone space will still have mining by blowing up ships. JF filled with crystals...hits empire and voila nice russian and pet injections of high ends that were easy to carry in.
I didnt mention rogue drones becuase ccp said they are seriously considering removing the standard mineral guts from the drones and supplimenting a regular bounty on them as well as infusion of module/part drops. So that entire last paragraph nullified.
Now onto the second paragraph the concept of forcing people to do things. Currently we do have a group of players playing this part already they're called high sec gankers. We could argue semantics about what thier forcing of these gankers are trying to get players to play 'thier' game but one point remains; High sec gankers have it better than any low sec pirate want to be when it comes to activly engaging targets. I want low sec to experince this more than high sec.
Overall there is an inherient conveyance problem. Miners at the moment are led to belive that they should earn some sort of magical blanket that protects them. I want to get rid of that blanket entirely because the reality is they dont have this blanket at all and it was never there in the first place.
Also it wouldnt screwing over industry with some of the conbulative stuff that could easily just be countermanned with I dunno ideas that would help fix things overall?
Compact Isogen? Arranged Tritanium?
True the idea would make it seem to dumb down eve a slight bit but convenince is one way to making the 'quality' of life better in eve.
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Wolodymyr
Mando'a Navy Controlled Chaos
21
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Posted - 2012.01.13 08:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
or just make highsec rats loot drops not reprocess into nullsec only minerals.
But I think that bots are ruining the mining profession more than me reprocessing my haven / sanctum leftovers. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
498
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Posted - 2012.01.13 10:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Quote:Remove minerals from reprocessing.
Hahaha... Nice one. |
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