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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Zaethiel
Murder-Death-Kill Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.12 20:30:00 -
[1561]
If im not mistaken Serpentis are weak vs Therm and Kin. You used EM missiles with EM + Therm Crystals.
Try shooting an object with 0 resists and see what they do. All in all the new changes to MK2 wih HAMs are worse off than if they left them alone. Without being able to armor tank + fit damage mods Caldari ships will be extremely more effective DPS wise than the new MK2 ships. I want my Lasers back too. _________________________________________
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Mack Dorgeans
Camelot Innovations
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Posted - 2007.08.13 00:05:00 -
[1562]
Actually, they used terror missiles according to the quotes, and those are kinetic. I don't know why they said torrent above that. I'm guessing the log quotes are more accurate.
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Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.13 01:33:00 -
[1563]
Edited by: Aramendel on 13/08/2007 01:34:53
Originally by: SencneS Pulse lasers Shoot faster, do more damage have greater range.. Why in EVE would anyone want to give up SO MUCH... it's ridiculous.
Actually HAMs have a greater range, you ignore that you get a FAR greater range bonus from skills for missiles compared to turrets. You get effective ranges of 13k for t1 and 60k for t2 jav hams. The HAM damnation has below 12k worse dps than a (current with +50% range bonus) pulse damnation, but above that better dps. And it can also boost that dps more efficiently with damage mods.
Originally by: Zaethiel Without being able to armor tank + fit damage mods Caldari ships will be extremely more effective DPS wise than the new MK2 ships.
Not a fair comparsion.
A cerb has after MWD, scram & injector 2 free slots free for a tank. A sacriledge has after 3 damagemods also 2 free slots for a tank.
After those modules the cerb has 1 free low for a damage control or PDU and the damnation 1 feee med for a web or cap recharger.
Althogether I would say they are pretty well balanced vs each other.
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SencneS
Amarr Balsarferskratchin Inc Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2007.08.13 04:44:00 -
[1564]
Edited by: SencneS on 13/08/2007 04:44:51
Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 13/08/2007 01:34:53
Originally by: SencneS Pulse lasers Shoot faster, do more damage have greater range.. Why in EVE would anyone want to give up SO MUCH... it's ridiculous.
Actually HAMs have a greater range, you ignore that you get a FAR greater range bonus from skills for missiles compared to turrets. You get effective ranges of 13k for t1 and 60k for t2 jav hams. The HAM damnation has below 12k worse dps than a (current with +50% range bonus) pulse damnation, but above that better dps. And it can also boost that dps more efficiently with damage mods.
LOL thank you for this because I wanted to wait until someone posted about the Almighty range of the HAM missile with skills.
T1 missiles the Range is 13,500 with level IV skills (I have these as well)
What is a real joke here and the reason why I wanted to wait is because I can fit... HEAVY BEAM LASERS!
Out of the box stats for Heavy Beam Laser Rate of Fire - 6.000s Optimal Range - 20,000 Fall off - 8,000 With skills it's range is - 33,600, Using Multifreq Lenses - 14,800
That's a good 1km longer then a HAM Missile with skills. So it shoots faster then HAM, has longer Range then HAM (This is not including the Current Damnation's 5% bonus to Optimal Range per level) It can actually shoot up-wards of 70km without mods and rigs. (Radio M Lenses)
Still has higher DPS then a HAM.
So thank you Aramendel for pointing out the superior range of the HAM missile
Come again!
Edit:- Spelling
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Send ISK to SencneS for good Kama! |
Jurgen Cartis
Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2007.08.13 07:20:00 -
[1565]
Yes, and you'll be doing oh so much damage with those Radio M crystals. . . Javelin sacrifices a good bit less DPS.
Damnation may be kinda borked, but the Sac is actually improved in terms of DPS over its old version. -------------------------------------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales |
Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.13 09:11:00 -
[1566]
Edited by: Aramendel on 13/08/2007 09:13:44
Originally by: SencneS That's a good 1km longer then a HAM Missile with skills. So it shoots faster then HAM, has longer Range then HAM (This is not including the Current Damnation's 5% bonus to Optimal Range per level) It can actually shoot up-wards of 70km without mods and rigs. (Radio M Lenses)
Still has higher DPS then a HAM.
Actually, nope.
A HAM with the 25% damage bonus of the damnation and jav hams does 32.4 dps per launcher with t2 launchers and maxed skills (spec at 4). 38 dps with t1 ammo. A heavy beam does with conflag 36.2 dps.
85 (jav hams) * 1.25 (HAM skill bonus) * 1.25 (damnation bonus) * 1.1 (warhead upgrades) /6.4 (t2 ROF) /0.9 (missle launcher op) /0.85 (rapid launch) / 0.92 (HAM spec 4) -> 32.4
3.6 (HB damage mod) * 28 (gleam) * 1.25 (med laser) * 1.15 (surgical) * 1.08 (spec at 4) / 6 (ROF) /0.9 (gunnery) / 0.8 (rapid fire) -> 36.2.
Heavy beams outdamage HAMs only between 13-16k. And this is WITH the range bonus. Which is 50% btw, not 25%. The description is wrong, if you fit lasers on it you get a 50% rangebonus on them. Before that t1 HAMs outdamage HB with gleam and above that jav HAMS do the same since its falloff will have reduced its dps. They only start to outdamage them again past 60k. And then you can use HEAVY MISSILE LAUNCHERS. Yes, you'll loose the HAM damage bonus. But HM still outdamage beams without it at that range.
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That being said, the damnation HAS problems, but not because of the HAMs. But because of its grid reduction. It is nice and fine if you want to use it as weapon plattform, but if you use it as gang bonus ship it runs into problems due to warfare links using 200 grid.
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Rinaldo Titano
Caldari Domus Fatalis FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.13 12:34:00 -
[1567]
Maybe is possible to get an answer on a 55 page thread from devs pls? If u think to change something or what conclusion u made from the response, etc. Pls communicate with your customers [IMG SRC="http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/9741/rinaldo2ir8.jpg"] |
Lisento Slaven
Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.08.13 15:37:00 -
[1568]
Does anyone know when the patch is coming out that includes the NOS+Khanid changes? ---
Put in space whales!
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Cyan Nuevo
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.08.13 17:21:00 -
[1569]
Can you hurry up and release the patch? I'd like to enjoy PvP a bit for once. --- Proud Amarr pilot.
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Zaethiel
Murder-Death-Kill Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.08.13 18:02:00 -
[1570]
Originally by: Cyan Nuevo Can you hurry up and release the patch? I'd like to enjoy PvP a bit for once.
Your sig says your an amarr pilot... Itd be better if they shot the Dev that came up with the idea and never release the patch. 1/2 of the Amarr ships are getting downgraded and 2 of the best Amarr ships are geting nerfed beyond uselessness. _________________________________________
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Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.13 18:07:00 -
[1571]
Originally by: Lisento Slaven Does anyone know when the patch is coming out that includes the NOS+Khanid changes?
The dev blog about the tourney states it will be at the 31st august partly because they want to do it *after* the rev 2.2 patch (which is the one with the current changes).
So its sometime between now and the 30th. I would guess either on the 21st or 28th.
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Perry
Amarr The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2007.08.13 21:02:00 -
[1572]
The new Damnation Stats and Boni are awesome. Just awesome. More Grid then i ever can spend on Lasers, more Hitpoints then... oh. forget it. its all balanced now!
shhhhh... ________________ Kali 3.0 Patchnotes: Amarr Oompf!
-Armageddon: +1 Missile Slot -Omen: Autocannon RoF Bonus -Apocalypse: 5% Mining Bonus
-Zealot: +10% more golden hull |
Cyan Nuevo
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.08.14 04:48:00 -
[1573]
Yep, I'm Amarr and I'm really looking forward to this patch for two reasons: Khanid changes and nos nerf.
Imagine that! --- Proud Amarr pilot.
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Bellac
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Posted - 2007.08.14 09:03:00 -
[1574]
hmmm - well I have to say I am not sure about the cambat logic of the damnation bonuses - but I wonder if anyone with more experience could offer some feedback.
I dont see the logic behind having a really big slow ship, and giving it a bonus to missiles with a 10km range. OK it can withstand the pounding, but surely will never be able to keep in range of any target long enough to do any sustained damage. If the bonus is supposed to be heavy/assault missiles then thats really no problem but if its assault only I really do not see this working out at all, and would rather stick with lasers.
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Mr Smooth
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Posted - 2007.08.14 11:47:00 -
[1575]
So, having heard nothing from CCP for ages on this thread, is it safe to assume that the patch will be going ahead as initially stated at some time this month?
If that is the case, taking into account all of the not-so-positive-comments in this now rather large thread, can i just ask why CCP bothered with this dev-blog? Were they expecting that everyone would say "yes CCP that is a great idea" and "please go ahead and shaft the Amarr Recons"? It would appear that CCP is going to do what it wants anyway and of course, EVE being their game, they have every right to do so. What upsets me is the fact that they "pretend" to consult with their paying customers and then totally disregard the feedback that has been offered in good faith.
Come on CCP at least let us know what is happening with these proposed changes and hopefully prove me wrong.
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Borasao
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Posted - 2007.08.14 13:09:00 -
[1576]
Originally by: Bellac
I dont see the logic behind having a really big slow ship, and giving it a bonus to missiles with a 14km range. OK it can withstand the pounding, but surely will never be able to keep in range of any target long enough to do any sustained damage.
No tacklers in your gang to hold the target down for you? It's a "fleet" command ship, after all
Quote: And as for reducing the powergrid by 200 - well that just makes it difficult to fit 3 gang modules if thats the way you want to go with your setup.
Yup... fitting 3x gang modules on the current Damnation makes me compromise a lot... dropping the grid is going to make it tough.
The devs said they were looking into things a while back... it would be nice to hear what they've found and any new ideas they may have, modified changes, etc.
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Damned Force
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Posted - 2007.08.14 15:00:00 -
[1577]
Originally by: Mr Smooth So, having heard nothing from CCP for ages on this thread, is it safe to assume that the patch will be going ahead as initially stated at some time this month?
If that is the case, taking into account all of the not-so-positive-comments in this now rather large thread, can i just ask why CCP bothered with this dev-blog? Were they expecting that everyone would say "yes CCP that is a great idea" and "please go ahead and shaft the Amarr Recons"? It would appear that CCP is going to do what it wants anyway and of course, EVE being their game, they have every right to do so. What upsets me is the fact that they "pretend" to consult with their paying customers and then totally disregard the feedback that has been offered in good faith.
Come on CCP at least let us know what is happening with these proposed changes and hopefully prove me wrong.
R U surpriced? I never saw other response from CCP. They make something. lot of peoples disagree, and they do it even than. They are like small childs. I would have right and right and right.......
U r just a paymachine, u dont have the rights communicating with them or make suggestions. U should just pay
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Wyliee
Taurus Inc Karnal Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.08.14 15:45:00 -
[1578]
my guess is that these changes are going to go though no mater what.
i fly amarr, and in alot of cases i think the noz fixes wil help most ammar ships, but i would like to suggest some changes.
curse = stay the same..it is still usable with the noz nerf.
pilgrim = needs a powergrid increase so we can now fit medium cap boosters to keep the neuts alive.
zealot = loose the utility slot in high..im never gonna want to put a noz or neut there.. instead let it fit another lazer
Khanid ships = stop making us use ham's. let us get bonuses to heavy missiles too. (i get the feeling that ccp brought in ham's no one liked them so they are going to try to make some use for them by forceing them on amarr pilots.)
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Wizzkidy
Demonic Retribution Pure.
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Posted - 2007.08.14 15:56:00 -
[1579]
Originally by: Wyliee Khanid ships = stop making us use ham's. let us get bonuses to heavy missiles too. (i get the feeling that ccp brought in ham's no one liked them so they are going to try to make some use for them by forceing them on amarr pilots.)
This is exactly what they are doing, No one liked HAM's there DMG is quite poor and there range is poor also, this is WHY no one used them even the caldari.
Yet Amarr are now forced to use HAM's cause we get a bonus even though HAM's suck in general - Devs - "I know what we will do, no one likes HAM's they where are new toy, since no one likes them lets force a race to use them - I have got it! Amarr they always complain about being gimped we will give them HAM's to use and make our new toy to be put in use" - even though HAM's are POOR POOR POOR.
Nice one CCP - good work
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Borasao
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Posted - 2007.08.14 19:23:00 -
[1580]
Originally by: Wyliee Khanid ships = stop making us use ham's. let us get bonuses to heavy missiles too. (i get the feeling that ccp brought in ham's no one liked them so they are going to try to make some use for them by forceing them on amarr pilots.)
You do realize that if they open the bonus up for HML and HAML, the damage bonus will be limited to EM only, right? The HAML only bonus (as it is currently proposed) is a bonus to *all* damage types, which is kind of nice and should be obvious as to why. Plus, the dev post said that they'd revisit HAMs at some point to make them 'better' somehow.
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Cyan Nuevo
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2007.08.14 19:25:00 -
[1581]
Not like it hasn't been pointed out many times already, but HAMs with the new Khanid ships' damage bonus are actually pretty nice... --- Proud Amarr pilot.
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Nyxus
GALAXIAN RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.14 19:45:00 -
[1582]
Damnation cap use bonus changed to a +10% per lvl armor amount bonus.
This bonus is GREAT! It's fairly unique, it aligns nicely with the Amarrian backstory of thier ships being hulking chunks of floating armor, it's good racial variety, it's a noticeable difference for fights and it's not overpowering! Perfect!
Now can we please get all the cap use bonuses on Khanid changed to armor amount bonuses? These are the "close range" fighting ships, and it's really a much better bonus for a close range fighter.
There are so many mods that can increase cap. +Armor amount is so much better. Honestly, the last thing Amarrian ships need is another bonus to cap.
Amarrians For Armor!!!
Nyxus
The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships. |
Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.14 20:12:00 -
[1583]
Would be a bit too powerful on the sacriledge IMO.
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Nyxus
GALAXIAN RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.14 20:19:00 -
[1584]
Edited by: Nyxus on 14/08/2007 20:18:48
Originally by: Aramendel Would be a bit too powerful on the sacriledge IMO.
How so? I am overall less leery of a +amount hp bonus on armor since a)you cant passively regen or permatank with it, and b) Lots of armor never killed another ship.
It will let you last longer....but considering these ships will be skirting webrange unless using javs/long range T2 ammo would lead me to believe a bit more overall armor would be appropriate.
Nyxus
The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships. |
Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.14 20:50:00 -
[1585]
No, lots of armor never killed another ship, but the sacri also has lots of dps. 400-500 lots of dps.
It is a shortrange ship, yes, but so is the deimos. The zealot in a pulse config also does not have a much better range either. The sacri would easily outlast these ships with an HP bonus.
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Philip Stark
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Posted - 2007.08.15 03:53:00 -
[1586]
What happaned to the armor resist bonuses on the Damnation? Over all I dont like the changes, I thought the ships were fine just the way they were, I had no problem using them, Since I could fly T2 Amarr ships ive been flying nothing but the Khanid versions. Also Devs if your going to remove turrent slots from ships then how about making the look more asymmetrical. I got into my Maldiction today and one side theres gun down to the bottom and on the other theres one up at the top, Maldiction only looked right if you had 3 guns, So please make sure ships look correct when fully fitted.
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Damned Force
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Posted - 2007.08.15 07:26:00 -
[1587]
Originally by: Philip Stark What happaned to the armor resist bonuses on the Damnation? Over all I dont like the changes, I thought the ships were fine just the way they were, I had no problem using them, Since I could fly T2 Amarr ships ive been flying nothing but the Khanid versions. Also Devs if your going to remove turrent slots from ships then how about making the look more asymmetrical. I got into my Maldiction today and one side theres gun down to the bottom and on the other theres one up at the top, Maldiction only looked right if you had 3 guns, So please make sure ships look correct when fully fitted.
Who cares about looking if the Scarli can tank a half fleet, and the Damnation now have +50 armor with +25% resist and can spam missiles from 120km :)
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Borasao
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Posted - 2007.08.15 13:04:00 -
[1588]
Originally by: Nyxus Damnation cap use bonus changed to a +10% per lvl armor amount bonus.
Any changes to the other Khanid Mk II ships? That change is OK but I think the grid change and the HAM only bonus were the main complaints for the Damnation (not that I don't like the +10% armor amount bonus... it fits in line with the logistic ships, notably the Augoror).
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.15 22:46:00 -
[1589]
just as long as we dont expand it to specialized ships in every race for every weapon - that would be no fun ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn |
Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.16 00:57:00 -
[1590]
Pilgrim got +100 grid.
How that will make it useable with the nos changes kinda escapes me though. Can fit 3 named nos/neut, named MWD, named med injector and 2 MAR2 with 16.5 grid to spare, but thats still with web & scram only 1 med for EW and the problem that it needs to invest cap to kill its targets cap AND tank. It basically got one "free" RCU.
No other changes to the amarr recons, at least no visible ones.
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