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Netzoka
Gallente IntoXication Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.31 05:46:00 -
[1]
I'm a semi-new player, 1.5m skill points, and I'm trying to get into PvP. I'm currently flying cruisers, and was wondering what to upgrade to next, battle cruisers or battleships.
Any advice to help my decision?
Thanks
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Linnth
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Posted - 2007.07.31 05:51:00 -
[2]
I'd say play around with battlecruisers while training up necessary skills for battleships. You don't wanna go around losing expensive battleships just because your skills are low. In my early days, I flew Apoc's with not even 2 million skill points. Yeah, I lost quite a few of them :P
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Tamoko
Damage Unlimited Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.31 06:38:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Tamoko on 31/07/2007 06:42:10
Originally by: Netzoka I'm a semi-new player, 1.5m skill points, and I'm trying to get into PvP. I'm currently flying cruisers, and was wondering what to upgrade to next, battle cruisers or battleships.
Any advice to help my decision?
Thanks
First, let me get this out of the way: Stay well, well away from Battleships until you're much higher skilled. You'll just end up with a very expensive wreck.
That said, if I had to re-roll and start fresh, I'd do the natural progression from Frigates > Interceptors > Assault Frigates > Cruisers > HACS, and on... However, that's a whole 'nother can of worms.
What race are you flying? That might help me give an idea what we're dealing with, here. (edit:) Also, are you planning on solo PvPing (very, very challenging) or joining a small/large group of pilots.
Cheers.
Khanid Mk-II: http://i13.tinypic.com/688zvjk.jpg http://i11.tinypic.com/5ycekb8.jpg |
Bo Bojangles
Minmatar Unity of Infinity
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Posted - 2007.07.31 06:58:00 -
[4]
Yeah, I'm also new at just a shade over 3mil sp now, and the more I look at the skilltree, the more I realize that my skills won't really support flying a BS anywhere near it's best capabilities.
I'll probably train up to fly an Assault Frigate, Interceptor, Cov Ops and maybe even a HAC before I ever buy the book.
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tarin adur
Gallente Einherjar Rising
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Posted - 2007.07.31 06:59:00 -
[5]
Edited by: tarin adur on 31/07/2007 06:59:11 i would avoid battleships like the plague, i'm currently a year old,and just now finishing training for t2 Blasters,i've tried but failed miserably, don't fly bs for a good long time mate, last couple weeks i've been flying interceptors and had tons of fun
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Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2007.07.31 07:02:00 -
[6]
Don't rush into bigger ships, it's counter productive.
The best characters I've encountered specialise in smaller ship classes first, and train up for a cap stable full T2 setup on frigates and cruisers before moving on. Once you're confident in a Cruiser, move into Battlecruisers. Only once you've nailed battlecruisers should you contemplate moving onto Battleships.
As was stated above, rushing into larger ships will result in you staring at a rather large wreck and being sorely out of pocket!
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AntonioBanderas
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Posted - 2007.07.31 08:34:00 -
[7]
i absolutely agree with all of you. I'm little over 6 mil sp and i have absolutely NO wish to fly battleships. BUT. To effectively earn money in 0.0 by ratting you ABSOLUTELY NEED battleships. I've ratted battleships in rupture, i'm doing it now in hurricane. And it's SLOW. it's doable, but its so ******* slow and it takes a lot of time and a ****load of ammo. My corpmates are earning loads of money in their ravens and i'm ******* broke all the time. So, as much as i don't want to fly one, my absolute priority is ti sit in a battleship My 2 cents
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.07.31 08:38:00 -
[8]
Originally by: AntonioBanderas i absolutely agree with all of you. I'm little over 6 mil sp and i have absolutely NO wish to fly battleships. BUT. To effectively earn money in 0.0 by ratting you ABSOLUTELY NEED battleships. I've ratted battleships in rupture, i'm doing it now in hurricane. And it's SLOW. it's doable, but its so ******* slow and it takes a lot of time and a ****load of ammo. My corpmates are earning loads of money in their ravens and i'm ******* broke all the time. So, as much as i don't want to fly one, my absolute priority is ti sit in a battleship My 2 cents
Rat in an Ishtar. Faster, safer (pvp wise) and cheaper (no ammo use).
Originally by: Goumindong it is at the point where it is impossible to determine whether or not you are trolling or if you area really out of your freaking mind.
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Raekone
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Posted - 2007.07.31 08:53:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Raekone on 31/07/2007 08:56:06
I think people here are confusing ingame skillpoints with actual play skill. Because skillpoint wise, battleships are easier to fly than anything else out there, due to better accommodation in regards to power/cpu/slots when you're lacking in terms of engineering/electronics etc.
Also, they're in fact not expensive at all compared to HAC's or assault ships etc. A tier 1 battleship is like 60 mil.
If you get a cheap battleship you'll have it for a long time and it will allow you to grow with it (if you like you could even use frigate sized guns on your battleship at start), and meanwhile you'll be learning how to actually use battleships instead of farting around in frigs doing absolutely f-all. Unless you find it amusing to go around ONLY warp scrambling things 24/7, then by all means go ahead.
I think when people say "omg start with frigs u noob" it's because their clueless CEO's forced them to do so back in the day, not because battleships actually take skill flying. Frigates on the other hand take SKILL flying, both real skill and skillpoints to be able to fit them at all.
edit Just as a point, this char had a Hyperion as FIRST ship after the noob ship. After getting the learning skills up I did gallente BS to 5. I couldn't use large armor reppers or big guns, but I sure as hell could do more with it than I would have managed in a battlecruiser or frig or anything else!
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AntonioBanderas
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Posted - 2007.07.31 08:57:00 -
[10]
Edited by: AntonioBanderas on 31/07/2007 09:01:35
Originally by: murder one
Rat in an Ishtar. Faster, safer (pvp wise) and cheaper (no ammo use).
now if only i could fly Gallente. ******* hate them, they can do EVERYTHING better than anyone. Uf there IS solopwnmobile, it's Gallente. If they nerf that, the next one will still be Gallente. (me goes to buy some Gallente skillbooks)
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Agalantiri
Caldari Deadworlds Infrastructure Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.31 08:57:00 -
[11]
Definately, without a doubt Battlecruiser.
The Tier 2 variety. Which, if you've trained Gallente up, means the Myrmidon.
Myrmidon is one of the best ships for running around in small scale PvP. It's a touch more expensive than the Brutix, but tanks so much more hardcore.
Plus it's great. And yes, train BC to around 4, then go and perfect your small, then medium ships, fly around in them. I've been playing for over a year, and I have yet to undock a single Battleship.
That doesn't mean that undocking my Nighthawk is any less fun.
Smaller(ish) ships FTW. They're cheaper (apart from the Nighthawk) and it's not just massive ships just sitting there.
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iiOs
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.07.31 08:57:00 -
[12]
if he wanna fly BS, let him fly bs, i would recomend to start in frigs tbh, much cheaper lessons
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Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2007.07.31 09:04:00 -
[13]
Quote: I think when people say "omg start with frigs u noob" it's because their clueless CEO's forced them to do so back in the day, not because battleships actually take skill flying. Frigates on the other hand take SKILL flying, both real skill and skillpoints to be able to fit them at all.
Or they could be speaking from experience in having rushed into battleships. Given that at a low level, one can earn impressive money ratting in a Caracal or Vexor, there's simply no reason to move higher than that when your skills and experience do not merit it.
That said, by all means buy a battleship. Targets of that magnitude look good on the killboard, and seeing them fitted with small t1 guns is always good for a laugh.
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AntonioBanderas
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Posted - 2007.07.31 09:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Agalantiri Definately, without a doubt Battlecruiser.
The Tier 2 variety. Which, if you've trained Gallente up, means the Myrmidon.
Myrmidon is one of the best ships for running around in small scale PvP. It's a touch more expensive than the Brutix, but tanks so much more hardcore.
Plus it's great. And yes, train BC to around 4, then go and perfect your small, then medium ships, fly around in them. I've been playing for over a year, and I have yet to undock a single Battleship.
That doesn't mean that undocking my Nighthawk is any less fun.
Smaller(ish) ships FTW. They're cheaper (apart from the Nighthawk) and it's not just massive ships just sitting there.
how do you make money in 0.0???
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SellYaStuff
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Posted - 2007.07.31 09:08:00 -
[15]
Originally by: AntonioBanderas how do you make money in 0.0???
Ah, stupid me, you're Gallente
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Agalantiri
Caldari Deadworlds Infrastructure Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.31 09:10:00 -
[16]
Originally by: AntonioBanderas
Originally by: Agalantiri Definately, without a doubt Battlecruiser.
The Tier 2 variety. Which, if you've trained Gallente up, means the Myrmidon.
Myrmidon is one of the best ships for running around in small scale PvP. It's a touch more expensive than the Brutix, but tanks so much more hardcore.
Plus it's great. And yes, train BC to around 4, then go and perfect your small, then medium ships, fly around in them. I've been playing for over a year, and I have yet to undock a single Battleship.
That doesn't mean that undocking my Nighthawk is any less fun.
Smaller(ish) ships FTW. They're cheaper (apart from the Nighthawk) and it's not just massive ships just sitting there.
how do you make money in 0.0???
Trade, leave a few agents gettting RP for cash, PvP for fun.
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Zeknichov
Amarr Life. Universe. Everything. Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.31 09:14:00 -
[17]
Okay guys he said he has 1.5M skill points and he's trying to get into PVP. That is the key here. At 1.5M skill points it's best to move to battle cruisers not battleships. BS's take A LOT more skillpoints to fly effectively in PvP than battle cruisers.
For ratting move straight to BS's don't waste your time in BCs. BS's do the same job faster and safer for less skill points than BCs.
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n0thing
omen.
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Posted - 2007.07.31 09:15:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tamoko
That said, if I had to re-roll and start fresh, I'd do the natural progression from Frigates > Interceptors > Assault Frigates > Cruisers > HACS, and on... However, that's a whole 'nother can of worms.
Totally wrong. You cant fly T2 ships without sitting in t1 for a while.
You shouldnt even get near HACs till you flew BCs and BSes at least few times. HACs are very skill intensive ships, thus when hopping into one without even flying heavier ships, your gonna get shot.
---
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AntonioBanderas
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Posted - 2007.07.31 09:20:00 -
[19]
/\ / \ / \ -| |- ---- stupid alt
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FT Diomedes
Gallente Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2007.07.31 13:55:00 -
[20]
If I were you, I would keep PvPing in frigates/cruisers and train for ships to make you ISK more quickly.
All the support skills you need to make any ship useful will apply to almost all ships. Engineering, Electronics, Drones, Navigation, etc - all needed regardless of what you fly. Then specialize in a primary weapons system and either shield or armor tanking.
You can fly a BC or BS quite capably for ratting and mission-running with low SP - if you learn what you are doing. You will get wrecked if you use that big ship in PvP with low SP and low real experience.
If you want to do primarily PvP, I suggest following the small ships route. You'll make less ISK, but maybe have more fun.
If you want to PvE first, I suggest following the Frigate->Cruiser->Battlecruiser->Battleship route. This is a great way to make enough income to support a PvP habit. ------------
Improvize. Adapt. Overcome. |
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Netzoka
Gallente IntoXication Inc
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Posted - 2007.07.31 17:38:00 -
[21]
Wow, thanks for all the help! I got much more responses than I thought I would. I appreciate it guys!
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Elvhera Luvulontime
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Posted - 2007.07.31 17:56:00 -
[22]
Originally by: AntonioBanderas i absolutely agree with all of you. I'm little over 6 mil sp and i have absolutely NO wish to fly battleships. BUT. To effectively earn money in 0.0 by ratting you ABSOLUTELY NEED battleships. I've ratted battleships in rupture, i'm doing it now in hurricane. And it's SLOW. it's doable, but its so ******* slow and it takes a lot of time and a ****load of ammo. My corpmates are earning loads of money in their ravens and i'm ******* broke all the time. So, as much as i don't want to fly one, my absolute priority is ti sit in a battleship My 2 cents
yes i agree totally, i had no wish to fly anything but frigs for a long time but moving from level 2 missions to level 3`s required me to train crusers to get a bc, i didnt want to but i did as i did not want to grind boring l2`s to be able to run l4`s.
then when i finally was able to use a l4 agent i realised that i now needed a bs
i decided to forgo bs`s anyway and just continue ratting 0.1 in a frig for cash instead of doing l4`s and by now i was bored of l3`s.
then the inevitable happened and i moved to o.o and i want to rat, so its either miss all the good spawns and use my cyclone or finally make the switch to bs`s.
but ill only be using these larger ships for moneymaking, im sticking to frigs / af, maybe cruisers, for pvp for a good while yet!!
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SellYaStuff
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Posted - 2007.07.31 18:04:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Elvhera Luvulontime
yes i agree totally, i had no wish to fly anything but frigs for a long time but moving from level 2 missions to level 3`s required me to train crusers to get a bc, i didnt want to but i did as i did not want to grind boring l2`s to be able to run l4`s.
then when i finally was able to use a l4 agent i realised that i now needed a bs
i decided to forgo bs`s anyway and just continue ratting 0.1 in a frig for cash instead of doing l4`s and by now i was bored of l3`s.
then the inevitable happened and i moved to o.o and i want to rat, so its either miss all the good spawns and use my cyclone or finally make the switch to bs`s.
but ill only be using these larger ships for moneymaking, im sticking to frigs / af, maybe cruisers, for pvp for a good while yet!!
my story exactly
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Anubis Xian
Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.07.31 18:08:00 -
[24]
If you dont want to fly anything bigger than a Frig...why would you say you were 'forced to'?
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Agent Li
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Posted - 2007.07.31 18:19:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Netzoka I'm a semi-new player, 1.5m skill points, and I'm trying to get into PvP. I'm currently flying cruisers, and was wondering what to upgrade to next, battle cruisers or battleships.
Any advice to help my decision?
Thanks
A lot of people go right to battleships, without having the necessary skills (read: there are more skills than the minimum required to do well in a battleship).
It can also be more expensive to lose your BS. Fly what you can afford to lose. ------------------
"Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all." |
Mudkest
MetaForge Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.07.31 19:33:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Mudkest on 31/07/2007 19:34:41 Do you have engineergin and electronics 4 or 5, advanced weapon upgraeds 2-4? primary weapon skills and support skills at 3-4(turrets/missiles, and good drone skills help too)
getting a battleship with lvl1 and cruiser sized weapons *can* be usefull for missions(even then its debatable) going into pvp with poor fitting skills and undersized weapons on your battleships, please give me the ISK you was going to spend on a battleship instead, I'll put it to much better use and you'll save time as well as you dont have to find your killer and then die ;)
or get a t1 cruiser and spend 30-40M on t2 modules for it, will do a lot better then 80-120M on a battleship with 1-2% of its value in modules
-Huzzah for punctuation in LP store! |
J Valkor
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.07.31 19:41:00 -
[27]
Edited by: J Valkor on 31/07/2007 19:44:24 Edited by: J Valkor on 31/07/2007 19:44:10 I'm at 23 million SP and I don't have a rank in any BS trained.
Of course, as we approach T3 and Tech 2 BS's I will train Caldari BS to 5. But it is pretty low on my priority list. Somewhere past training HACs to 5.
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Vitrael
Warriors of the Einherjar Fimbulwinter
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Posted - 2007.07.31 19:49:00 -
[28]
At 1.5m sp (less than 1 month skill training) you should absolutely not fly a battleship for any reason.
I flew a rifter for the first 4 months of the game and I'm thankful for it. You're gallente? Fly the Incursus until you get your head around the PVP scene.
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Jezala
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.07.31 19:53:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Jezala on 31/07/2007 19:54:59 I disagree with the majority response here. They make it sound like you have to train separate skill paths for either battleships or battle cruisers when in truth much of the skills you have to train are the same for both end goals.
Go for the battleship, but take a couple of weeks and branch off to train the battle cruiser related skills. No need to rush into T2 weaponry immediately, you can be just as effective with name T1 gear and as you gain pvp experience you'll learn how to diminish your opponent's T2 performance gains.
Focus on getting your BS, BC, cruiser and support related skills to lvl 4 before you decided whether you want to specialize primarily in BS or BC. Frankly, there's no need for you to commit to a decision this early in your game life. Get like 5 or 6 mil SP before you decide on which +30 days skills you want to train
edit: btw, the only reason you should not be flying a BS, or any other ship for that matter, is if you can't afford to lose it. My personal rule of thumb, don't fly it into pvp if you can't afford to replace it 5 times over. Also, never ever fly your isk-making ship into combat.
...and yes, we do sell and deliver ammo. 425 Express Delivery is available upon request, please see Hans Gates and Marcus Grisbius regarding this option. |
Boomhaur
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.07.31 19:54:00 -
[30]
Personally I go with the Cruiser or Frigate for PVP with your current skils. I start out with frigates to get down the basics with T1 or cheapest parts fitted (and hope you dont have implants) and learn from there. You will lose A LOT of ships, but it will be worth it, you will gain experience.
Than from there go to cruisers, im recomending this over battlecruisers since its cheaper to lose. Dude that Scammer just ninja'ed that Carebare's wallet!! |
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