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Whats with the impossible missions?

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Linkex Caldari Unholy Crusader Mining Corp	Posted - 2007.08.02 20:01:00 - [1] I've just tryed my first level III mission. Let me start by saying that up untill now, I have been running level II's in a caracal with heavy missiles. I've never had a serious problem. i I get my first mission for a lev III, its one of those destroy everything, use gate, destroy everything, use gate etc etc type missions. So I clear the first gate with no problems. Jump through, and BAM, a good 15-20 enemys, I lock one, start to fire. After 2 volleys of 5 scourges, I'm about a quater of the way through his sheilds, whilst I'm at half sheilds. I hit warp, by the time I'm out, I'm half way through my hull. I try one more time, thinking maybe there are some easier ones to take out first. Nope. Again, down to the hull by the time I escape. Ok, so I grab a mate in a drake, also with heavys. We manage to take out the first lot by doing 4 or 5 hit and runs. We hit the next gate, him first to take the heat. I'm only getting the occasional missile, and I still have to warp out before I even get through a ships sheilds. He has to warp out, only it won't let him. He ends up having to log, because of this, 3 mil repairs to his ship. Then, to cap it all off, I have to abort the mission (He won't risk his drake again, which is fair enough) lose 0.20% standing, and now the lev III agent won't talk to me. Now as much as anything, this a rant, but the simple fact is that there were so many rats that the whole thing lagged up. Anyone on a slower computer/connection than me prob would have lost a ship simply from not being able to get out in time. But I have to ask, why does this happen? In such a carefully designed game, why are there such HUGE jumps between a level II Q18 and a Level III Q-15? Surly if I can do one with reletive ease, I ought to be able to at least do the other at a push. And I should certainly be able to do it with a drake backing me.
RuriHoshino Minmatar The Mission Guys	Posted - 2007.08.02 20:04:00 - [2] What mission is this, that is Lvl 3 and nigh-impossible? I seem to have missed it... _
Saaitar	Posted - 2007.08.02 20:06:00 - [3] OK What is the mission name? What are the rat specific hardeners? Did you use them? www.eveinfo.com is ur friend
Linkex Caldari Unholy Crusader Mining Corp	Posted - 2007.08.02 20:27:00 - [4] Edited by: Linkex on 02/08/2007 20:30:31 Ok, just looked on http://eveinfo.com I believe it was this mission http://eveinfo.com/missions/112/eve-online-pirate-invasion Same name and description. However, the screenshots shown only show a few ships per area, I was facing around 15-20 (Didn't count exactly, but overview was pretty much full) If thats just when the screens were taken then fair enough, but is it possible that a bug created more NPCs than there should have been? I've just realised the eveinfo actually lists the number of each enemy, and there were way more than it lists. If this is a bug, would I be able to get my standing back? It feels rather unfair to have lost it for something like this (3-4 times hard than it should have been after all)
Mastin Dragonfly Absolutely No Return The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.08.02 20:44:00 - [5] A: you don't do lvl 3 missions in a caracal B: in lvl 3-4 missions fitting the right resists for your opponent matters a lot C: I could ask you to give your ship set-up but see A
Saaitar	Posted - 2007.08.02 20:57:00 - [6] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly A: you don't do lvl 3 missions in a caracal B: in lvl 3-4 missions fitting the right resists for your opponent matters a lot C: I could ask you to give your ship set-up but see A true, true...get a battlecruiser - less pain :P
Sari Teku	Posted - 2007.08.02 21:00:00 - [7] Edited by: Sari Teku on 02/08/2007 21:01:05 A you know, each successive level of missions gets harder. Ships to use, in case you didn't know: L1: frigate/destroyer L2: Cruiser/BC L3:BC/BS L4:BS L5: (I won't even go there at this point) That mission data from eveinfo doesn't seem right. It sounds like you were shooting at a BC. For an L3 you need to use a BC, a cruiser doesn't cut it. Unfortunately, a Drake can easily do all L3 missions, it sounds as if your friend doesn't have a complete/working Drake setup. He should have used repair modules to repair his ship, not the station. 15-20 rats isn't that bad, if you have lag issues you need a better computer, it's not a connection issue. If 15-20 npc rats bother your computer, god forbid you get involved in fleet or POS warfare. And, a computer any worse shouldn't even be playing an online video game. Addressing the huge jump, if you ever did L1 missions before the L1 worlds collide nerf, you would realize that there have always been varying difficulties in missions even of the same Level. Much more so in missions of different levels. Especially L3 and L4.
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.08.02 21:35:00 - [8] Level 3 missions are approximately 3x harder than level 2s. Once you get good at them, you'll discover that they are all laughably easy. The Caracal is a fine ship for level 2s, and can do Level 3s in the hands of an experienced pilot. With that said, it is light years worse than the Drake, which is the queen of Level 3 missions. I've used several different BCs, and none of them compares with the Drake for running Level 3 missions. I have found this setup can complete every single level 3 mission without any trouble: 7x HML (best you can fit or afford) 1x tractor beam or drone link augmentor 2x LSE II 4x Rat Specific Hardener IIs 1x BCU II 3x SPR II 3x Shield Purger Rigs 5x Hobgoblins in drone bay Train Battlecruisers up to level IV. Use Kinetic missiles against everything (damage bonus). If you cannot fit all the tech II, use tech I until you can fit the tech II. Eventually get your drones up to Hobgoblin IIs. Use the drones to kill frigates while you use missiles on the cruisers and BCs. Read the mission guides before going on the mission and fit appropriate hardeners, e.g. against Serpentis fit 2x Kinetic and 2x Thermal, against Angels fit one of each. Learn which rats trigger new spawns. Learn to manage aggro (i.e. learn not to make the entire room attack you at once). If your specific shield compensation skills (EM, Thermal, Kinetic, Explosive) are good, you can use the passive resistance amplifiers instead of the active hardeners. Your tank won't be as good, but it will still be more than sufficient. It will also be "user-friendly" - you just have to lock targets and press F1-F7. That's very handy if you have a laggy connection or old computer - you don't have to turn anything on to make it give maximum protection. As others have said, use hull/armor repairers to fix your ship if all else fails. It will save you a ton of ISK. Good luck! ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Manic Smile Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.08.02 22:15:00 - [9] Originally by: Sari Teku Edited by: Sari Teku on 02/08/2007 21:01:05 A you know, each successive level of missions gets harder. Ships to use, in case you didn't know: L1: frigate/destroyer L2: Cruiser/BC L3:BC/BS L4:BS L5: (I won't even go there at this point) L1: Drake L2: Drake L3: Drake L4: Drake L5: Drake + Remote shield rep / NH? *courtesy of www.flickr.com I hate the jpeg format.
Ambo 2nd Outcasters	Posted - 2007.08.03 11:27:00 - [10] Originally by: Linkex He ends up having to log, because of this, 3 mil repairs to his ship. Just so you (and your friend) know, he could have bought and fitted basic hull/armour repairers, sat outside a station for a few mins and repaired the ship for almost nothing... As for the rest, caracals are not going to be able to handle many lvl3s without a very good fit and a skilled pilot. Drake can do any easy, sounds like your friend has a crap fit for the mission. Check the ships/modules forum for recommended setups.
vanBuskirk Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.03 11:29:00 - [11] Another point; many missions now have several waves of rats in each room, the reinforcements being triggered by blowing up a specific ship. The elFarto database is your friend. The simple solution is often to make sure that you don't attack the trigger ship until the rest of that wave is dead. Having said that, level 3 in a caracal is chancy and some of them probably aren't possible. ---------------------------------------------- "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."
Roy Gordon Caldari The Star Wolves Aunni Ti Tsuun Consortium	Posted - 2007.08.03 15:18:00 - [12] From what you are saying I bet you were attempting to do a lvl 3 mission called 'The Blockade'. That is a very tricky mission even for experienced mission runners and only someone with an insane desire to lose ship after ship would attempt it in a Caracal! That which does not kill us makes us stronger. The Universe is ruled by three basic principles- Matter, Energy and Enlightened Self-Interest!
Klasanov	Posted - 2007.08.03 16:15:00 - [13] The setup Diomedes gave is very sound. I would suggest changing the T1 to arbalests (or, failing that, Xr-3200s) for the extra damage, and the second rat specific hardeners to shield recharger IIs. The extra recharge equalizes the extra damage you'll receive with from not having the second hardener. If you can get your shield regen/sec above 40 you'll be able to tank lvl 3, even the hard missions. However I could be a little off here because when I ran lvl 3s in a drake I was fighting Guristas. Sansha were a little harder, but still quite doable.
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2007.08.03 17:58:00 - [14] I swear, if they nerf L3's because of your ineptitude and whining I'm going to pod you. If all I have left to get decent standing increases with research corps is Courier missions I'll sacrifice a pair of Domis just to see you go pop. That said, eve-info will at least tell you what damage to expect even if the ships are wrong and LP reward should tell you how hard it is. If you can't fly a BC decently you shouldn't be attempting L3's, the same goes for BS's and L4's. It sounds like you are triggering new waves before you've cleared out the old ones. By the way, once you get some experience all L3 missions will are easy. I can AFK many of them with FoF missiles and an auto targeter. ---------------------------------------- This Thread needs some Dev lovin but it will take a bump from anyone
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.08.03 19:26:00 - [15] Originally by: Manic Smile Originally by: Sari Teku Edited by: Sari Teku on 02/08/2007 21:01:05 A you know, each successive level of missions gets harder. Ships to use, in case you didn't know: L1: frigate/destroyer L2: Cruiser/BC L3:BC/BS L4:BS L5: (I won't even go there at this point) L1: Drake L2: Drake L3: Drake L4: Drake L5: Drake + Remote shield rep / NH? QFT All you do is adjust the missile size. Lights in assault launchers for 1's & 2's, Heavies for everything else. That and just add a few wingmen for added DPS, in level 4's & 5's. The only trick is balancing the tank vs gank of your setup. Quote: No misfortune is so bad that whining about it won't make it worse
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.08.04 00:37:00 - [16] Yeah I'd say you need to upgrade your ship first off and then tell your friend to look up passive tanking for a drake. There are tons of threads about them so I won't go into it here, but suffice to say I'm running level 4s in mine right now with no troubles at all. Takes forever and a day to kill anything, but it does work until I can afford a raven.
Pedronicus Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.08.04 09:27:00 - [17] Hehe seems like Linkex is having similar problem like me but i overcame it with little thinking :) I was doing level 1 missions till now in my kestrel and when i got my first level 2 mission and tried to do it in kestrel i was lucky to warp back to the station before getting blown up that's when i decided i need a better ship, race specific hardeners etc. and moved on to cruiser and some specific hardeners and now it seems simple enough. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves, and goodness
Weles Paene	Posted - 2007.08.04 10:33:00 - [18] Originally by: Roy Gordon From what you are saying I bet you were attempting to do a lvl 3 mission called 'The Blockade'. That is a very tricky mission even for experienced mission runners and only someone with an insane desire to lose ship after ship would attempt it in a Caracal! The OPer said it was "Pirate Invasion", hence the condescending tone regarding his misguided friend in a Drake. Happiness is a warm gun, Mawma!
Solomunio Kzenig Amarr Ordo Ministorum	Posted - 2007.08.05 07:54:00 - [19] Edited by: Solomunio Kzenig on 05/08/2007 07:55:26 Edited by: Solomunio Kzenig on 05/08/2007 07:54:50 Edited by: Solomunio Kzenig on 05/08/2007 07:54:03 Step up from Lvl2 to Lvl3 can come as a shock, casue Lvl3's are where you actually have to think about what you are doing (you have to fit a proper tank and if possible set danage type for the rats etc., along with proper aggro management). When i went to Lvl3's from Lvl2's it was a bit of a shock allright, but once i'd chatted to some ig mates, they set me right (mainly regarding the joys of passive tanking). And as has been mentioned, there are Lvl3 missions that are harder than others, some are a cake walk, others are more difficult (read time consuming). One Empire, One Emperor, One People, Forever under Heaven. Amarr Aeternus.
CogInTheWheel	Posted - 2007.08.05 12:24:00 - [20] Originally by: Manic Smile Originally by: Sari Teku Edited by: Sari Teku on 02/08/2007 21:01:05 A you know, each successive level of missions gets harder. Ships to use, in case you didn't know: L1: frigate/destroyer L2: Cruiser/BC L3:BC/BS L4:BS L5: (I won't even go there at this point) L1: Drake L2: Drake L3: Drake L4: Raven L5: Multiple Ravens + Basilisk fixed it for ya
Jacob Holland Gallente 19th Star Logistics	Posted - 2007.08.06 15:37:00 - [21] The point is, don't move to level 3 missions just because you have the standings to get a level 3 agent. EVE demands a certain intelligence in its players and she isn't forgiving of those who assume she'll lead you by the hand. It is possible to do most (if not all) level 3s in a Caracal but you do need to be reasonably skilled and more importantly you need to know the limits of your ship, skills and set-up. Learning how to manage agro, how to run quickly when you aren't certain of superiority and how much to expect from a level 3 are half the battle but a well set-up battlecruiser will get you a good chunk of the way. -- Originally by: cordy Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.06 16:07:00 - [22] I know there is one LVL3 mission where you have to take out a pirate repair station. The first time I tried it I was shooting the ships first and almost lost a Brutix. Then I realized that what you really had to do was tank the ships just long enough to take out the repair station then get the hell out. Unless you are a masochist you will want a BC for LVL3s. "Life is nothing but a competition to be the criminal rather than the victim." - Bertrand Russell
Chainsaw Plankton	Posted - 2007.08.06 22:32:00 - [23] Originally by: Manic Smile Originally by: Sari Teku Edited by: Sari Teku on 02/08/2007 21:01:05 A you know, each successive level of missions gets harder. Ships to use, in case you didn't know: L1: frigate/destroyer L2: Cruiser/BC L3:BC/BS L4:BS L5: (I won't even go there at this point) L1: Drake L2: Drake L3: Drake L4: Drake L5: Drake + Remote shield rep / NH? the man speaks the truth. although one of the level 5s doesn't need the remote shield rep... well until 20ish fighters warp in. 10ish neut towers = drake ftw slight adjustment L1: assault frig L2: assault frig L3: assault frig/drake L4: raven/drake L5: drake with logistic support. might need a battleship or two for more damage.
Manic Smile Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.08.06 22:55:00 - [24] Originally by: CogInTheWheel Originally by: Manic Smile Originally by: Sari Teku Edited by: Sari Teku on 02/08/2007 21:01:05 A you know, each successive level of missions gets harder. Ships to use, in case you didn't know: L1: frigate/destroyer L2: Cruiser/BC L3:BC/BS L4:BS L5: (I won't even go there at this point) L1: Drake L2: Drake L3: Drake L4: Raven L5: Multiple Ravens + Basilisk fixed it for ya No with the current state of the game I really meant what I posted. A bil+ CNR setup doesn't get to count. Honestly the Drake + Alt is cheaper and faster then getting a CNR anyway and you can always sale the account later when you can fly a NH. The last time I desynced with my 400mil Raven I said forget it's paper tank. I do acknowledge that the Raven is the fastest lvl 4 runner. *courtesy of www.flickr.com I hate the jpeg format.
Redflare Caldari SwEaTy ArMpIT RaIDeRs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.08.17 07:45:00 - [25] Well, if you had a caracal i'm STILL puzzled as to how you died... Unless you have utterly crap cap and ab skills or skills that give negatives to those two, I can't see how you are dying. This is how to do level 3's in a caracal (never tried lv 4s with it but i can solo 1.4 mil BS spawn x2 + 4-6 500k bc): HI: any HEAVY launchers (NOT HEAVY ASSAULT!). I solo the BS spawn with limos and a BCII, but your mission could be done in full T1 launchers MED: 1x AB. Preferably T2. Preferably faction. Preferably Officer xD. but t1 will cut it. 1x Large Shield Extender. You can't fit a T2 LSE I think, but get highest named. This gives you a nice 4-6K shield 'buffer' in case things go wrong. 1x sensor booster. Only get this if you can shoot missiles up to at least 80 KM, which only a level one in every skill cannot do. fill the rest with passive/active hardners depending on shield and cap skills. LOW: 1BCUII and 1PDS or RCU. PDS is if you can fit all of this, RCU/RCUII if you cannot. And if you cannot fit BCUII, then put a T1 in it, or, since your skills are probably crap, put another PDS in it, rip out the LSE, and snap in a medium booster II or small booster II. I've found the amount of damage taken in a long range caracal to be managable by a small T2 shield booster. So there you have it. If you were charging into battle spewing rockets...then you must have hit self destruct in order to die. And yes, this does solo The Blockade, but it solos it so slowly that your best bet is to 0.0 rat until you can afford a ferox/drake, as every1 here suggests. And yes, contrary to popular belief a ferox is a viable missile platform. AKITAS!!!11
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.17 11:01:00 - [26] Originally by: Redflare Well, if you had a caracal i'm STILL puzzled as to how you died... Unless you have utterly crap cap and ab skills or skills that give negatives to those two, I can't see how you are dying. This is how to do level 3's in a caracal (never tried lv 4s with it but i can solo 1.4 mil BS spawn x2 + 4-6 500k bc): HI: any HEAVY launchers (NOT HEAVY ASSAULT!). I solo the BS spawn with limos and a BCII, but your mission could be done in full T1 launchers MED: 1x AB. Preferably T2. Preferably faction. Preferably Officer xD. but t1 will cut it. 1x Large Shield Extender. You can't fit a T2 LSE I think, but get highest named. This gives you a nice 4-6K shield 'buffer' in case things go wrong. 1x sensor booster. Only get this if you can shoot missiles up to at least 80 KM, which only a level one in every skill cannot do. fill the rest with passive/active hardners depending on shield and cap skills. LOW: 1BCUII and 1PDS or RCU. PDS is if you can fit all of this, RCU/RCUII if you cannot. And if you cannot fit BCUII, then put a T1 in it, or, since your skills are probably crap, put another PDS in it, rip out the LSE, and snap in a medium booster II or small booster II. I've found the amount of damage taken in a long range caracal to be managable by a small T2 shield booster. So there you have it. If you were charging into battle spewing rockets...then you must have hit self destruct in order to die. And yes, this does solo The Blockade, but it solos it so slowly that your best bet is to 0.0 rat until you can afford a ferox/drake, as every1 here suggests. And yes, contrary to popular belief a ferox is a viable missile platform. Even if most people disagree (mostly because they don't train rails), the ferox is a decent gun plataform too (even if 1 more turret hardpoint would be nice). The range advantaga is very good in some mission. The caracal suggestion work only for some missions. Before using it he need to know the missions. Your set up will not give an high surviviability if the gate put you at 3 km from the enemyes.
Asmosis	Posted - 2007.08.17 12:14:00 - [27] Edited by: Asmosis on 17/08/2007 12:15:36 on a more realistic note L1: frigate->destroyer L2: destroyer->cruiser L3: battlecruiser L4: BC-BS size depending on age/skills. for a low skills char growing up. Only L2 mission that gave my dest a problem with T1 LSE's was blockade due to its length (and me not knowing much about triggered spawns). Also suggesting that a new player get faction/T2 fittings is a bit of a joke really.
Artthana Minmatar Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.08.17 14:41:00 - [28] Edited by: Artthana on 17/08/2007 14:41:54 Originally by: FT Diomedes Train Battlecruisers up to level IV. Use Kinetic missiles against everything (damage bonus). If you cannot fit all the tech II, use tech I until you can fit the tech II. Eventually get your drones up to Hobgoblin IIs. Use the drones to kill frigates while you use missiles on the cruisers and BCs. The only thing that I disagree with is the use of Kin missles for all missions. Using the right damage type for the correct spawn. For example thunderbolts (EM) do more damage to Sansha targets than Scoruge (Kin) missiles even with the drake bonus. Anyway Drake is Sex for all lvl 3 missions. My setup is- H = 7 x Named HM 1 Tractor Beam M = 2 Hardeners, 2LSEII, 1xLSB, 1xBosst Amp L = 3 x BCII, 1xDCUII
mortitia sith The Adamite Inheritance	Posted - 2007.08.17 17:33:00 - [29] also dont forget the engineering skills seems you need more in defens abilities

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