Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 22 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
Marie Mahro
Conflagration Mining
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 10:43:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Marie Mahro on 04/08/2007 10:43:32 ThatÆs a long time to make a copy
A lot of people seem to think this tread is a wish list for the ideal industrial Capital Ship. The perfect industrial Capital ship will mine like 5 hulks, be EWar immune, can jump across EVE, have a clone vat bay, mobile refinery, tank 50 carriers and have its own doomsday device.
So now we know the best industrial that everyone wants, lets now think of a viable industrial that won't crash the market, is an industrial counter-part the current line of capitals (i.e. Carriers and Dreads), and has the same advantages and disadvantages as its capital brothers.
If we are to create a mining ship that is on the same level as carrierÆs and dreadnoughts, we have to carry the same benefits and floors to this new design. Also, since there are multiple types of carriers and dreadnoughts, there should also be multiple types of industrial class capital ships.
What bonuses do current capital ships have within the game?
Carriers: 1) Heavy damage, beating its little brother the battleship by maybe 2-1.
2) Heavy tanking, with the right setup, it could tank and light force (2-3 battleships) until downtime.
3) Jump drive over large distances (only with good skills)
4) Good cargo space (especially with a rigged Iteron mark 5)
5) Versatile (can be used for attacking, defending, hauling and mining)
Dreadnoughts: 1) Very nice damage, although the target has to be very slow (under 20 m/s)
2) Very nice tank, although its not unlimited and if youÆve lost the fight, then kiss your dreads good bye.
3) Cheap to kit, when it comes to dreads, its all down to DPS and alpha strikes.
Now the counter balance, what are the negative aspects of capital ships?
1) No EW immunity
2) Expensive to the average corp or small alliance.
3) CanÆt jump into High sec (but can dock at stations)
4) Needs an alt/gang member to jump to.
Of course each race has advantages and disadvantages on top of these, but thatÆs the way the PVP world works. Now we have to design an industrial equal to the carries and dreads.
Possible types of industrial capital ships?
1) Low jump distance but high end mining and tanking. (this option could have a large cargo bay, 200,00m3)
2) High jump distance but low end mining and tanking (small cargo bay, 100,000m3)
3) Support capabilities with mid range jump and mid range mining and tanking. (this option could have a mid range cargo bay, 150,000m3)
The option should be available to the industrialist to choose what he wants to do, whether it is fleet based or solo.
With regards to earlier points brought up in this topic:
1) A ship that is an industrial counter to the carrier and dreadnought class ship, should not be immune to EW.
2) If the ship has little way of defence (and I agree with this), it should make up with it in its designed role. For example, large cargo bay thatÆs unable to carry ships.
3) The industrial class carrier should be similar to 2 or 3 hulks in its mining yield. (this will make it similar to the carrierÆs 2-1 damage output over its battleship rival)
4) An industrial class capital ship should not be able to equip fighter drones.
5) This new industrial capital ship class should be similar in cost to its combat equivalent.
|
Marie Mahro
Conflagration Mining
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 10:45:00 -
[152]
This, I believe, is an industrial counterpart to the current Capital line.
Name: Behemoth Mk I (although I like the name Laviathon)
Bonuses: 5% bonus to all shield resists per level 8% to Capital Mining Array cycle time per level 20% increase in cargo bay per level (at max skill the cargo space will be 500,000m3) 3% increase in jump drive activation range per level -99% bonus to Gang link modules
Statistics:
CPU: 725 PG: 750,000 High slots: 5 Medium slots: 4 Low slots: 4 Rig upgrade slots: 3
shield capacity: 130,000 Shield Em Damage Resistance: 0 Shield Explosive Damage Resistance: 60 Shield Kinetic Damage Resistance: 40 Shield Thermal Damage Resistance: 20 Shield recharge time: 17,000.00 sec
Armor Hitpoints: 80,000 Armor Em Damage Resistance: 70 Armor Explosive Damage Resistance: 10 Armor Kinetic Damage Resistance: 25 Armor Thermal Damage Resistance: 35
Maximum Velocity: 75mps Drone bay capacity: 450 m3(canÆt use fighters) Cargo bay capacity: 250,000m3(canÆt carry ships) Mass: 692,500,000 kg Inertia modifier: 0.06 Volume: 25600000 m3 packaged Capacitor recharge time: 3,387.50 sec Capacitor Capacity: 50000
Maximum targeting range: 68 km Signature radius: 1500 m Max locked targets: 6 RADAR Sensor Strength: 0 LADAR Sensor Strength: 0 Magnetometric Sensor Strength: 60 Gravimetric Sensor Strength: 0
Kinetic dmg resistance: 0 Thermal dmg resistance: 0 Explosive dmg resistance: 0 EM dmg resistanceem dmg resistance: 0
Fusion Propulsion Strength: 0 Ion Propulsion Strength: 0 Magpulse Propulsion Strength: 0 Plasma Propulsion Strength: 6
Jump Drive Consumption Amount: 1000 Jump Drive Capacitor Need: 0.95 Calibration: 400
This could be one of four different types of industrial capitals, each one specialising in a different field. One could increase gang bonusÆs, another could have a shorter jump distance but stronger mining potential.
It will not affect high sec mining as it canÆt enter 0.5 and above, also it has no defences so itÆs not able to help in a fight. The tank is enough to hold of a small attack or large spawn, but not enough to withstand a focused assault.
It would be useful as a transport for Ore, but has less than half the cargo space than a freighter and is twice the cost. Most alliances would chose to use freighters in friendly space because it holds more, and can carry ships.
|
Marie Mahro
Conflagration Mining
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 10:46:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Marie Mahro on 04/08/2007 10:47:38 Edited by: Marie Mahro on 04/08/2007 10:47:26 A siege module that allows the ship to compress ore would be the cherry on top.
All of what I just wrote was covered in an older thread http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=508872&page=3
|
74l0nz
Gallente MetaForge Ekliptika
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 11:29:00 -
[154]
i noticed clone vat module will be added to this, only ships that can use those are motherships and titans. Does this mean that the Mining capital will be in the same class as MS's and Titans and have to be built at a pos with sov ?
|
Fatsam
Madhatters Inc. M. PIRE
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 11:51:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Fatsam on 04/08/2007 11:50:57 I would like to see this ship's role as a 0.0 logistic ship, as well as a 'mining command ship'. Its large ship/corp array will make for hauling supplies into 0.0 potentially much less time consuming than using carriers.
Not asking for anything overpowered, just that I would like to see it jump as far as carriers. Carrier hauling is such a boring, but unavoidable, part of 0.0 life. I don't think anyone would care if it's jump drive consumes 6-10 times as much isotopes; everyone agrees its just such a tedious feature of the game. And we do play this game for entertainment. The recent giant can nerf to carrier hauling made the game 30% less fun to play.
Might not fit in with the backstory but would increase the games fun factor a great deal in my opinion.
|
Fatsam
Madhatters Inc. M. PIRE
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 11:52:00 -
[156]
Originally by: 74l0nz i noticed clone vat module will be added to this, only ships that can use those are motherships and titans. Does this mean that the Mining capital will be in the same class as MS's and Titans and have to be built at a pos with sov ?
They can dock, so could be built in outposts/stations the same way dreads/carriers can be I would suggest.
|
Ishina Fel
Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 13:56:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Fatsam
Originally by: 74l0nz i noticed clone vat module will be added to this, only ships that can use those are motherships and titans. Does this mean that the Mining capital will be in the same class as MS's and Titans and have to be built at a pos with sov ?
They can dock, so could be built in outposts/stations the same way dreads/carriers can be I would suggest.
Correct. The ORE capital ship is not a supercapital class ship. It is in no way related to motherships or titans and does not gain supercapital bonuses such as immunity to electronic warfare.
Also, if you can fit battleship sized weapons on a frigate that specializes in this for combat purposes (cruise launchers on stealth bombers), then I don't see why you can't put a 'supercapital' module like the clone vat bay on a normal capital ship that specializes in having a clone vat bay for logistics purposes. As is, that module is hardly ever used anyway, and greatly limited in capacity (woo, 5 jump clones max).
The one thing I want to know more about is how the compressed ore is handled.
-According to the screenshot, one unit of Compressed Scordite takes about 5% the space of one unit of Scordite (0.15 becomes 0.0075). How many units of Scordite have been compressed into one unit of Compressed Scordite, though? I am expecting a one to one conversion here (and even then it will be powerful), but who knows. Also, does this compression formula hold true for all ores, cutting their size to 1/20th? Or are all compressed ores the same size of 0.0075, and just contain different amounts of the original ore?
-Can you trade compressed ore on the market?
-Can you un-compress ore again? (Not terribly worried about this of course, just out of interest.)
-Will there be cargo operations possible from the ORE capital to a Freighter, or do you have to employ a POS for this purpose? Hauling with a Freighter directly from the belt would be a tremendous possibility. There are balance considerations here though. I'll just throw this to you as a suggestion and let you Devs sort it out
|
Lucio Joe
Amarr
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 14:16:00 -
[158]
Nobody is going to use this ship for ninja mining. Who is going to risk 1b or 2b jumping to a place where you haven't intel about enemies and putting the ship in some kind of siege mode?
It will have a clone bay to help in this ninja mining sessions? I dont know how this work exactly, but If you do a clone jump to the ship then you have to wait 24 hours to do a new one?. As I read in this post the ship sould be dockable (miners docking inside the ORE capital) for this purpose of ninja mining.
The ship can't fit any kind of strip miners. I think that the people that will use this ship are the people that now have exhumers to lvl 5, the top miners. Please let us mine like a hulk in this new ship. And about the new siege mode... do we need to have it always active for the bonus? this is not a dread, we will not use this only 1 or two times a week to kill a pos, this ships will be working every day. How many stront are we going to need?
If this ship is like the dev says, I hope the devs do it the new transport of fuels and stuff between empire and 0.0, and remove carriers and dreads from this carebear role. otherwise this ship look like useless.
PD: Sorry for the awfull english.
|
Bagehi
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 15:42:00 -
[159]
Two things:
I like Nyphur's idea about a mobile shield bubble. This ship shouldn't have much for offensive weapons, it is an industrial ship after all. The mobile shield bubble would be the ship's "uber" device.
I think the hangar should be smaller, with the caveat that mining barges take up less space in them than they do elsewhere. It isn't too far fetched to imagine a ship like this, which is designed to carry mining barges carry them better than other ships could (think docking them on the hull or something of that nature). If it can haul more fighting ships, haul more cargo, and have clone vats, it leaves the combat carriers in a "almost" role. The combat carriers would be almost dreadnoughts in their fighting capacity and almost industrial carriers in their carrying capacity. A capital ship shouldn't be almost anything. A capital ship should have a specific role and do that role better than any other ship. |
Maya Rkell
Third Grade Ergonomics
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 15:46:00 -
[160]
Heh. Pretty much what I argued a mining capital should be (heavy support, not a direct miner). Neat.
//Maya |
|
Royaldo
Gallente KVA Noble Inc. Institute of Cooperative Education
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 16:05:00 -
[161]
finally a new thing for miners coming out. wtf ccp???? fixed deimos, fixed khanid, fixed nos, fixed some amarr ships
are you mad? you are actually fixing stuff again!
|
Friedrich IX
Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 18:00:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Friedrich IX on 04/08/2007 18:01:18 Well the defensive ability shouldn't be a POS shield on the Capital, i would suggest it would use a gang mod that only boosts the industrial ships (barges, exhumers, haulers) Resistances drastically, so they could recive some damage or seeing as the siege mod is a industrial core, that might aswell boost the industrial ships resistances while working.
Well that also means that the capital industrial should have/recive some good resistances. No point in well protected ships if the base itself can't handle any damage.
If the Capital Industrial would have a POS shield thingie it most likely will be used more in a battle as a mobile safe haven then a industial ship.
IF the capital tractor beam could tractor in ships (barges, exhumers, haulers) then it could be even used for a quick get away by pulling in all the non-combat ships, by quick i mean as quick as possible with the 10min siege mode. And you could probably annoy the hell out of the miners with that
I don't speak english so no need to point out my spelling mistakes :)
---
|
Ahkii
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 19:07:00 -
[163]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis Some quick answers,
can this ship use normal stargates or is it limited to low sec?
It is a capital ship so is limited to low sec (0.0 - 0.4) and has to use a jump drive and a gang mate with a cynosural field to move between systems.
Will the ship be able to dock?
yes.
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Originally by: Rid**** Valer I think Chribba should be given permission to operate one in high-sec.
There are still a few capital ship assembly arrays in high sec space. Would it be considered an exploit to build and operate an ORE capital ship there?
=========================
an answer here would be most appreciated....
|
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 19:11:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Royaldo finally a new thing for miners coming out. wtf ccp???? fixed deimos, fixed khanid, fixed nos, fixed some amarr ships
are you mad? you are actually fixing stuff again!
This is not a new thing for "miners", it is a new thing for 0.0 Alliances and large Corps in 0.0/LowSec.
Since it can't enter Empire and costs over 1B your "average" miner will never even see one of these. So for some 70-75% of your mining characters this is no help at all. Instead we get broken named mining upgrade modules that get stacking nerfs so our production will be even lower <-----------> Factional Warfare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 19:18:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Since it can't enter Empire and costs over 1B your "average" miner will never even see one of these. So for some 70-75% of your mining characters this is no help at all. Instead we get broken named mining upgrade modules that get stacking nerfs so our production will be even lower
Did you just claim that 70-75% of all miners are solo highsec miners? This ship won't even be useful for solo miners since it doesn't actually mine.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 19:37:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Since it can't enter Empire and costs over 1B your "average" miner will never even see one of these. So for some 70-75% of your mining characters this is no help at all. Instead we get broken named mining upgrade modules that get stacking nerfs so our production will be even lower
Did you just claim that 70-75% of all miners are solo highsec miners? This ship won't even be useful for solo miners since it doesn't actually mine.
I know it won't be, that is why I'm dissapointed. Not surprised, but still disappointed.
I would be willing to bet that 70-75% of all miners in EvE are HighSec based, and/or in Corps that don't have the resources to use one of these ships (including NPC Corps in that). Hence it is NOT a boost to miners as many people are claiming, including CCP and instead a boost to very large corps and 0.0 Alliances.
Very nice ship, I'm glad its added, but it is far from "giving love" to the mining profession and instead a tool for making 0.0 Alliances even stronger. <-----------> Factional Warfare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
Maya Rkell
Third Grade Ergonomics
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 19:53:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Originally by: Royaldo finally a new thing for miners coming out. wtf ccp???? fixed deimos, fixed khanid, fixed nos, fixed some amarr ships
are you mad? you are actually fixing stuff again!
This is not a new thing for "miners", it is a new thing for 0.0 Alliances and large Corps in 0.0/LowSec.
Heh. It's for mining corps. Like all the capitals, it requires cooperation to use. Oh gee, you might have to work with others :)
//Maya |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 20:01:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Very nice ship, I'm glad its added, but it is far from "giving love" to the mining profession and instead a tool for making 0.0 Alliances even stronger.
Seems to me that it's designed to encourage people to move to lowsec and 0.0 with the end to encourage PvP just like pretty much every other addition to the game.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 20:31:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Heh. It's for mining corps. Like all the capitals, it requires cooperation to use. Oh gee, you might have to work with others :)
Just because my main is in a NPC Corp don't assume that my other characters and accounts aren't.
And not one of them is going to spend 1B in a ship that can't defend itself, gives bonuses that will years to actually get a "profit" from and then take it into LowSec or 0.0 How many cycles of how many strip miners will it take a semi-casual corp of 25 to make back their 1+ billion (closer to 3B after fitting and counting skills) ISK from buying this? It is outside the range of the majority of Corps in EvE and suitable only to very large corps and alliances. The ones that don't need it nearly as much.
Look at the map. 70-75% of all players are in Empire at all times and the majority of them aren't going anywhere else soon. How about giving something to US too? <-----------> Factional Warfare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
Thufir'Hawat
Caldari MOON-STAR INC.
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 20:32:00 -
[170]
Originally by: maarud Will there be mining fighters?
A bunch of retrievers would be really fine :)
|
|
Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 20:35:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Nyphur
Seems to me that it's designed to encourage people to move to lowsec and 0.0 with the end to encourage PvP just like pretty much every other addition to the game.
And without being able to mount offensive modules or fighters, plus its cost, will do absolutely nothing in that goal. It is too expensive for most Empire-based Corps to risk moving into LowSec with, and too vulnerable to other PCs who can and will bring larger ships against it if they find it.
Instead it will make 0.0 Alliances richer and HURT smaller/Empire-based miners who will then leave rather than play in a style they don't have any desire to do. <-----------> Factional Warfare:
The LowSec wars which never happened. |
Tyeson Rai
Caldari Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 21:02:00 -
[172]
I appreciate that you are looking at mining as an area of EVE to receive some improvements.
Please reconsider your gang mining mod that will decrease cap use. I have never had an issue with cap and never met someone who has complained about it while mining. It has never been an issue and hopefully never will be. This mod is a total waste and will go un-used. Please change it to give a boost to mining as others have suggested or figure something else 'useful' out.
As a very dedicated miner myself with 3 accounts cenetered around 0.0 mining, I would never use the currently designed cap reduction gang mod, but I would enjoy one that further increases my mining yield.
__________________________________________________
Also, please either take out the named mining upgrades or fix them. I almost bought a couple of the best for 1 billion each, but lucked out and heard they are deactivated and do nothing. I would also love to see some tech 2 mining upgrades that possibly do 10% of a mining yield increase.
|
Imhothar Xarodit
Minmatar Wolverine Solutions Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 21:37:00 -
[173]
I find it extremely interesting, that the ship will have assembly lines.
Could this be a hint that there "might" be some kind of capital manufacturing ships as well in the future?
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 22:04:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Tyeson Rai
Also, please either take out the named mining upgrades or fix them. I almost bought a couple of the best for 1 billion each, but lucked out and heard they are deactivated and do nothing. I would also love to see some tech 2 mining upgrades that possibly do 10% of a mining yield increase.
From what I read abouth them, they will be rewoeked and give increments increasing in a 1% scale, not at 5% for every new steep, i.e. the worst named will give 6%, the best 10%. At the same time the miningr upgrades will become stackign nerfed.
So, unless at least the worst named mining upgrades become fairly common, mining get a nerf (granted only a 1% or so for people mining in barges/exumers, much more for BS mining).
|
Nisse Owned
The Order of Chivalry
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 22:10:00 -
[175]
Still no timer on how long is left on the cycles on lasers?
|
Draekas Darkwater
Moons of Pluto
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 22:12:00 -
[176]
I don't see the usefulness of the mining laser cap reduction link either. I've mined for a long time, and have never had a problem.
Change that to a link that adds to barge resistances, and that would be more useful for going into low sec. To promote the ship actually being present in the belt with the miners, perhaps it should be a targetable module that can only be activated while the ship is anchored. You'd have to fit several of these to cover more than one miner.
I stress, that it would only work on barges, exhumers and maybe indies and transports. So it couldn't be used as a tactical weapon (unless suicide transports are available one day =D).
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.08.04 22:36:00 -
[177]
Some question about the ore compression:
It is possible only in "siege" mode?
The BPO for ore compression has a wastage level, like a normal BPO, and is subject to the same skills?
To decompress the ore any station is usable, or it is necessary to use the mining capital in "siege" mode?
If a "special" process is necessary to decomprime ore, like it is necessary to comprime it, it will require BPO to? (if so, the first Veldspater BPO should be given to Cribba, framed in gold)
I would be possible to comprime and decomprime ore even in "normal" station and with some structure in POS?
|
Mona X
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.08.05 00:23:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
From what I read abouth them, they will be reworked and give increments increasing in a 1% scale, not at 5% for every new steep, i.e. the worst named will give 6%, the best 10%.
9%
|
Stephen HB
Mystical Knights Legionnaire Services Ltd.
|
Posted - 2007.08.05 02:27:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Venkul Mul To decompress the ore any station is usable, or it is necessary to use the mining capital in "siege" mode?
If a "special" process is necessary to decomprime ore, like it is necessary to comprime it, it will require BPO to? (if so, the first Veldspater BPO should be given to Cribba, framed in gold)
I would be possible to comprime and decomprime ore even in "normal" station and with some structure in POS?
The link on p5 http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0708/ore.jpg shows compressed ore as having a refine amount, just like regular ore. This would imply that compressed ore can be reprocessed in the normal fashion, with proportionately higher yield (20x in this case). ----------
Signature core stabiliser II activated. This sig is immune to mod tampering! Rawr!
EVE Tracking Guide |
Callthetruth
Caldari Drunken Ratbags Inc New Eve Order
|
Posted - 2007.08.05 05:30:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Fatsam Edited by: Fatsam on 04/08/2007 11:50:57 I would like to see this ship's role as a 0.0 logistic ship, as well as a 'mining command ship'. Its large ship/corp array will make for hauling supplies into 0.0 potentially much less time consuming than using carriers.
Not asking for anything overpowered, just that I would like to see it jump as far as carriers. Carrier hauling is such a boring, but unavoidable, part of 0.0 life. I don't think anyone would care if it's jump drive consumes 6-10 times as much isotopes; everyone agrees its just such a tedious feature of the game. And we do play this game for entertainment. The recent giant can nerf to carrier hauling made the game 30% less fun to play.
Might not fit in with the backstory but would increase the games fun factor a great deal in my opinion.
thats what freighters are for just make sure u escort em
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 22 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |