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So i fly Amarr *whine*

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Arcturus Lynx	Posted - 2007.08.08 11:29:00 - [1] So after several million SP later i'm sitting in a fully teched out t2 harbinger. I think to myself, yeah 2 cap rechargers and a capacitor power relay should be enough to keep my gold plated battlecruiser afloat. (Almost 30 cap a sec at 50%) So i skip out merrily to begin another level 3 mission. I jump in and start blasting indiscriminately at anything that moves. About half way through a few missiles have gone through to armor so i decide to start up the med repper. In less than 20 seconds my cap dropped to 40% and kept dropping. I decide to shut down my lazers and rep up again while mobs slowly creep up and hammer me with missiles until i have to jump out because i can't run my guns and my repper at the same time. Forgive me for my ignorance but... how is that balanced. I mean lasers suck, they don't have anywhere near the same damage potential as other weapons and suck the most cap and have the worst range (well almost). Amarr only get 2 damage types EM and therm and our ships are so heavily reliant on cap that...without it we are mince. So i was thinking... Why can lasers only do EM and therm damage. I mean lasers literally explode on impact (explosive damage. This is scientifically proven) and the force of a concentrated laser beam hitting 800mm of titanium armor would have to create some sort of kinetic damage? And if we are supposed to use specialist cap modules like cap injectors why don't amarr ships have extra cargo room??? It's really hard to fly Amarr. (And no i don't want to retrain)
Viktor VonCarstein Amarr Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2007.08.08 11:42:00 - [2] http://hell-raisers.xippy.co.uk
Siyanamar	Posted - 2007.08.08 11:47:00 - [3] Can you give a link to a scientific (i.e, non-wikipedia) article that says lasers explode on impact? Sure, they'd superheat something (thermal damage) to the extent where the massive thermal input might make it pop, but that isn't the same as setting off (as an example) an artillery shell right next to the target. Same for kinetic - in EVE, kinetic implies a solid object hitting a surface (shield/armour/hull) - lasers aren't -that- solid.
Gozmoth Amarr Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.08.08 11:50:00 - [4] Amarr is the hard mode of playing Eve. It should be precised when buying these skills. I think EVERY player who has Amarr skills and Gallente/Caldari/Minmatar skills can approve this. Everything is difficult when being Amarr, from fitting to PvE.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.08 12:00:00 - [5] What the heck is your setup? I don't have a single cap recharger or anything cap related and my harbinger runs smoothly as a babys' bottom. So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have.
Julius Romanus Free Space Development Cartel	Posted - 2007.08.08 12:11:00 - [6] Were you using conflagration crystals?
Arcturus Lynx	Posted - 2007.08.08 12:16:00 - [7] Heres my setup: High 5x heavy beam lasers t2 [Aurora M] 1x focused medium beam laser t2 [Aurora M] Mid Afterburner t2 Webber t2 Cap recharger t2 Cap recharger t2 Low Med Repper t2 DC t2 EANM t2 EANM t2 Cap Relay t2 HS t2
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.08 12:26:00 - [8] Edited by: NoNah on 08/08/2007 12:27:56 Originally by: Siyanamar Can you give a link to a scientific (i.e, non-wikipedia) article that says lasers explode on impact? Sure, they'd superheat something (thermal damage) to the extent where the massive thermal input might make it pop, but that isn't the same as setting off (as an example) an artillery shell right next to the target. A well calculated and calibrated laser could move in a circular motion to cause heat and not as much damage as melt the alloys forming the surface of armor or hull of the hostile ship, and thus causing a cloud of unstable metal-particles that which can be ignited by a short pulse of extracharged lazurs. The laser would thus use the same kind of technology used in Mining lasers today, with the exception that it would not cause as much of a vacuum due to the expanding gas as the miner does to Veldspar - thus there would be no attraction to the ship. Thus using both ingame theories and princips but also stealing bits and pieces from L P Markelova, I V Nemchinov, L P Shubadeeva, "Evolution of a "laser explosion" near a surface", SOV J QUANTUM ELECTRON, 1987, 17 (9). Or simply.. some time reality just have to make room for balance. Is this the way? Perhaps not, but it should not be disregarded as it's not scientificly proven in real life. Need I remind that there's a difference? EDIT: And this was more in response to your post than in agreement of OP. I'd like to see his sources aswell. =) Post count: 673452
Theron Gyrow Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.08.08 12:30:00 - [9] Were you fighting against nossing rats? -- Gradient forum
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.08 12:40:00 - [10] I don't know what your problem is, since with that setup, you should be able to run all modules(armor repper even from start) for 5 to 6 minutes So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have.

Koryvarn Amarr Liberty Rogues	Posted - 2007.08.08 12:50:00 - [11] Edited by: Koryvarn on 08/08/2007 12:50:57 Use rat specific hardeners instead of an omni tank. Damage resiststed is damage you don't have to repair. Something like Mids: 4 Cap Rechargers Lows: 2 x T2 hardners (rat specific) 2 x T2 hardeners (rat specifc) 1 x T2 heatsink 1 x T2 MAR Should give you 80+ in two resists, depending on who you're fighting. Also, your capacitor has the best regen at around 30%. So run your repper until you hit 30, then let it recharge to 40-45 rep up again, to maximize your cap regen.
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.08.08 12:53:00 - [12] Edited by: Shevar on 08/08/2007 12:53:31 Originally by: Sheriff Jones What the heck is your setup? I don't have a single cap recharger or anything cap related and my harbinger runs smoothly as a babys' bottom. Odd.... No implants, no rigs and no cap modules and max cap skills will give you 17 cap/s peak recharge. 3 t2 hardeners, 1 t2 med rep and 7 heavy beam lasers needs 34 cap/s (or 30 cap/s for heavy pulses). And thats without counting the medium and low slot left overs. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Riho Gallente Magnificent Beavers Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.08.08 12:55:00 - [13] dunno.. my alt doesnt have problems running harb setup :) you must have gone against blood nossing ships. those are a pain :( my alt isnt uber maxed amarr char... she has 15m sp and about half of it is in industry/sience and she has 2x races industrial 5 :P i like amarr alot :) lasers do thermal mostly.. cause they do dmg by overheating stuff :) dunno much about electro magnetic stuff :P --------------------------------------- Sig killed by MODs.... reworking it Great being Gallente... aint it ? ----------------- YARRRR, sig hijack! -HornFrog -----------------
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.08.08 13:00:00 - [14] Edited by: DarkElf on 08/08/2007 13:01:34 Ok you're wrong on a few factors. firstly the harbinger from it's guns can doa helluva lot of damage. your ammo lasts forever therefore saving u money on ammo and space in ur cargo. the range of heavy pulse is one of the best ranges of any close range weapons. if ur struggling that much for cap then i suggest improving ur cap skills tbh. DE
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.08 13:05:00 - [15] If one day Ammar receive some sort of explosive damage it cannot, and won't be a high percentage. Maybe a crystal with 80% EM and 20% Explosive... (but would need to be the type that eats EXTRA cap) If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Skaaj Thunderstruck.	Posted - 2007.08.08 13:06:00 - [16] Well I fly a Harbinger in LVL 3 amarr navy missions, and I use 7 Heavy pulse tech II's this I can run with armour rep for 10 mins easily... and pulse lasers do more damage and hit frigs easier. I think you should switch to pulses, also are you using drones? P.S. In real life explosive damage and kinetic damage are the same thing
Sheriff Jones Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.08 13:20:00 - [17] Originally by: Shevar Odd.... No implants, no rigs and no cap modules and max cap skills will give you 17 cap/s peak recharge. 3 t2 hardeners, 1 t2 med rep and 7 heavy beam lasers needs 34 cap/s (or 30 cap/s for heavy pulses). And thats without counting the medium and low slot left overs. Well i didn't mean i run forever, or that i run all mods all the time, but i've never had any cap problems nor problems with having to warp out. Might be also 'cause i don't use beams at the moment, or the way i use my ship. Hmh. Guess piloting does go over skills/equipment Never thought i'd be good at it though. Nobody actually runs a mission with all mods on all the time do they? So yeah, i have a problem with being serious, but it's the almost smallest problem i have.
Skaaj Thunderstruck.	Posted - 2007.08.08 13:29:00 - [18] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Nobody actually runs a mission with all mods on all the time do they? I do in my Retribution... but that happily sits at 43% ish cap even running all activatable mods
Kather Evil Proctologists	Posted - 2007.08.08 13:34:00 - [19] its important you say what level you battlecruiser, controlled bursts and cap skills are at (they should all be atleast 4 tbh) as for laser damage types, its a game, there are more pressing realism discrepances if you really wanted to go into the finer points of the game --------------------------------------------- Long live the Evil Proctologists!
Deva Blackfire Viziam	Posted - 2007.08.08 13:42:00 - [20] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Nobody actually runs a mission with all mods on all the time do they? My Abaddon holds 24/7 with all mods working (8x megapulse, 3x hardeners, LAR + MAR). To OP: try installing 3x CCC rigs (capacitor control circuit). Should give you enough cap/s.

Heelay Ashrum Caldari Santhe Sienar Technologies	Posted - 2007.08.08 13:43:00 - [21] CAP PROBLEMS? --------------------------- Alternative idea to NOS
Amnika MonSulu DROW Org Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2007.08.08 14:38:00 - [22] Originally by: Siyanamar Can you give a link to a scientific (i.e, non-wikipedia) article that says lasers explode on impact? Sure, they'd superheat something (thermal damage) to the extent where the massive thermal input might make it pop, but that isn't the same as setting off (as an example) an artillery shell right next to the target. Same for kinetic - in EVE, kinetic implies a solid object hitting a surface (shield/armour/hull) - lasers aren't -that- solid. Aside from the fact that this is a game....are you seriously going to argue Amarr can't have anything aside from EM and Therm unless it can be proven to work in RL? Here, let me take this jumpgate to the next system first...(AKA faster than the speed of light)....oh wait, that is a scientific impossibility! There is a TON of stuff in this game that is not possible without breaking LAWS of science and you want to gripe about the fact that Amarr lasers shouldn't be able to have Exp or Kin dmg? At least there is no scientific law that prevents it in the first place. lol
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.08.08 14:41:00 - [23] Originally by: Sheriff Jones Nobody actually runs a mission with all mods on all the time do they? There are enough level3 missions you can't do without warping out or doing it very ineffecient by flying miles away with the cap recharge you propose. So yes if you want to maximize mission running you do want to run all your stuff nearly constantly, and using heavy pulses instead of beams only saves 4 cap/s. But hey if you call that mad piloting skillz good for you . --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
LilttleJimmy Amarr Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.08 14:50:00 - [24] You should be fine without using conflag or 2 reps with poor cap skills, just ensure your engi skills are at least level 5(yes at least )
Rafein	Posted - 2007.08.08 15:11:00 - [25] Originally by: Kagura Nikon If one day Ammar receive some sort of explosive damage it cannot, and won't be a high percentage. Maybe a crystal with 80% EM and 20% Explosive... (but would need to be the type that eats EXTRA cap) Well, technically, Amarr is getting the ability to do all damage types, with the Khandid Mk II changes, that make Khandid ships into missile boats. So some Amarr ships will be able to do all damage types at will. Of course, many Amarr are agains this change. .
Amnika MonSulu DROW Org Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2007.08.08 15:13:00 - [26] Originally by: Skaaj Well I fly a Harbinger in LVL 3 amarr navy missions, and I use 7 Heavy pulse tech II's this I can run with armour rep for 10 mins easily... and pulse lasers do more damage and hit frigs easier. I think you should switch to pulses, also are you using drones? P.S. In real life explosive damage and kinetic damage are the same thing I agree on the pulses, swap in some heavy pulse IIs and some Amarr Navy Micros/UVs and you can cut the amount of cap used by half or more. While not a lot (from about 3 per turret to 1.6 per turret) it does add up in a long battle. As for the Explosive and Kinetic damage thing being the same.....that is not true at all. Kinetic damage is solid shot that does its dmg from impact only. Explosive rounds are shells that contain an explosive and while they do some kinetic dmg, its is relatively light and only from the round moving...the real dmage is from the explosive head going on and throwing shrapnel around. Ex. Many tanks in WW2 carried 2 types of rounds. A high velocity Kinetic round that was used on armored targets and simply hit and depending on the target would slice right through a target and out the other side but was nearly useless agasint soft targets and a HE round that did not have a tip strong enough to allow penetration of armor, but was packed with explosives designed to explode and send a concussion wave and fragments out in a large radius and was perfect for use on soft targets but would bounce off armored targets or simply explode on impact and break things on the outside of the tank like tools and supply boxes. In reality, the game has the resists on armor and sheilds reversed....armor should be more resistant to kinetic damage, not EM. Which sheilds should actually have the most resist to. Explosive and Thermal should be the two middle resists.
Alatari Winterdawn	Posted - 2007.08.08 15:18:00 - [27] Edited by: Alatari on 08/08/2007 15:23:50 Edited by: Alatari on 08/08/2007 15:23:34 Originally by: Arcturus Lynx I jump in and start blasting indiscriminately at anything that moves. L3 missions are where you need to stop doing that and start thinking about what you're doing. At the moment the Harbinger is my L3 mission running ships of choice (over the Brutix and Drake). Don't look at me like that! Current setup: 7 x Heavy Modulated Energy Beam (Microwave/Standard/X-Ray) 1 x Drone Link Augmenter 1 x 10MN Afterburner II 2 x Cap Recharger II 1 x Tracking Computer 2 x EANM II (or 1 EANM, 1 rat specific) 1 x Medium Armor Repairer 2 x Heatsink II 1 x Reactor Control Unit 5 x Hammerhead II Tactics are simple - warp in, get the aggro from the first group, deploy drones and keep your distance to 28km or so (with X-Ray crystals). The DPS is high enough that I normally don't even hit armour; 'Mordus Headhunters' is the only mission I have to regularly warp out on. - nothing wrong with Drake, its just boring .. zzz -- You can't do that with a Planet.
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.08.08 16:31:00 - [28] Originally by: Rafein Well, technically, Amarr is getting the ability to do all damage types, with the Khandid Mk II changes, that make Khandid ships into missile boats. So some Amarr ships will be able to do all damage types at will. Of course, many Amarr are agains this change. Technically they've always been able to - as they have droneboats. Afraid you missed the point entirely though. =/ Post count: 796822
VanNostrum Perkone	Posted - 2007.08.08 17:09:00 - [29] It sucks that most amarr ships have 1 less turret/launcher slot than it's counterpars like you can fit max 7 turrets on harbinger, while 6 turrets+2 launchers on hurricane or zealot with only 4 turret slots when vagabond can fit 5 turrets+1 launcher (or 4+2) while of course laser does more dmg on paper, projecitles and missiles dont use cap, so u have to use rechargers, rigs, CPR etc to be able to fire lasers, which blows! you can easily have a 600+ DPS Drake with 14-19k shield and not worry about cap or tracking amarr ships are more artsy and sci-fi with the awesome looking lasers and all, but the price you pay is having the worse ratting/mission ships
Rhuu Gallente Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.08.08 17:19:00 - [30] I ran a level 4 vengeance vs. sansha with this setup, just to prove to myself that it could be done: High: 7x Heavy Modulated Pulse (AN Multi) 1x Diminishing Nos Med: 1x 10MN ABII 1x Fleeting Web 2x Cap recharger II Low: 1x MAR II 3x EAN II 1x DC II 1x HS II Rigs: 1x Aux Nano I 1x Nano Accel I 1x Aux Thrusters I Drones: 5x Hammer II This should run 23/7 (as long as the changed nosses still work the same on NPCs); the key to staying alive in this setup is to never, ever sit still long enough for guns to track you.



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