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Toria Nynys
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.08.15 19:04:00 -
[1]
So, I'm grinding L3s for alt standings, and I got to thinking about real newbies. You know, the ones who aren't doing the grind with 2 battleships and a battlecruiser at a clip of 10+ an hour.
My powergrind is making life pretty miserable for the new guys.
So wouldn't it be nice if I could just bribe my agent for standings? Let's say it takes 100 missions to get to L4s from L3s, or ~10 hours of grinding. The target income in empire is about 10M an hour. Why not allow me to bribe a single agent for say 200M ISK to get straight to L4s? That way I'm not swimming in the little guys soup so much and competing with others at my level instead.
Low level mission grinding is just a mind numbing timesink. So is gathering ISK. How about it, why not let me buy my way out of a grind I don't find as entertaining and help out the newblets struggling to get started at the same time?
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Kitex
Caldari Blacktag Test Labs
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Posted - 2007.08.15 19:13:00 -
[2]
How do you figure that you're competing with new players by running low level missions? In fact, how is the mission PVE aspect of the game a competition between players at all?
As for the ability to bribe your way to higher standings, I do agree that it is a nice idea. But timesinks are a integral part of all MMO's. I have yet to find one without grinding in one form or another, and that is by design.
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Toria Nynys
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.08.15 19:20:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Kitex How do you figure that you're competing with new players by running low level missions? In fact, how is the mission PVE aspect of the game a competition between players at all?
It's not meant to be a competition, that's why I suggest bribery. It's a competition because mission rewards are dynamic -- reward is based on number of shots, time taken, etc. As a newbie I remember taking half an hour to an hour to get through a L3. Now, with alts, I blow through the same missions in one reload.
There's a huge difference between the new guy with 1.5 million sp in his first BC struggling to survive a L3 and me with a total over 30M sp in 3 alts flying faction & T2 fitted battleships doing the same thing.
Quote:
As for the ability to bribe your way to higher standings, I do agree that it is a nice idea. But timesinks are a integral part of all MMO's. I have yet to find one without grinding in one form or another, and that is by design.
As I said, gathering ISK is a grind as well. There is plenty of grindable content in Eve, the standings grind is pretty much the only mandatory one. I'm just saying give me the ability to choose my own grind rather than having to OMGWTFBBQPWNing the same L3 for the 3000th time.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.08.15 19:30:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Toria Nynys So, I'm grinding L3s for alt standings, and I got to thinking about real newbies. You know, the ones who aren't doing the grind with 2 battleships and a battlecruiser at a clip of 10+ an hour.
My powergrind is making life pretty miserable for the new guys.
So wouldn't it be nice if I could just bribe my agent for standings? Let's say it takes 100 missions to get to L4s from L3s, or ~10 hours of grinding. The target income in empire is about 10M an hour. Why not allow me to bribe a single agent for say 200M ISK to get straight to L4s? That way I'm not swimming in the little guys soup so much and competing with others at my level instead.
Low level mission grinding is just a mind numbing timesink. So is gathering ISK. How about it, why not let me buy my way out of a grind I don't find as entertaining and help out the newblets struggling to get started at the same time?
Bad idea, the standing grind is the only thing that keep everyone and their dogs from having 5 lv4 R&D agents, par character.
Do anything to make standing gain easier, and you'll ruin the datacore market. ------------------------------------------
What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
Toria Nynys
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.08.15 19:42:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Shadowsword
Do anything to make standing gain easier, and you'll ruin the datacore market.
Have you noticed how datacore prices are steadily trending down? Everyone WILL have those R&D agents sooner or later anyway, if all they do is feed their low level R&D agents tritanium. They keep getting storylines, and standings improve over time.
This would speed up the datacores heading to nearly free, nothing more.
There are already far more datacores being produced than people with ship data interfaces can soak up. That's why copying labs are starting to free up all over empire as well. I predict the datacore supply will continue increasing faster than the number of ship interfaces. So, the DC gravy train will stop, it's just a matter of how many months till we get there.
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GonzoWCS
The Shadow Order
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Posted - 2007.08.15 19:56:00 -
[6]
Of all the things to want to change. I would put this on very low. The system is a well thought out system.
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MrDetermination
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.22 19:18:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Toria Nynys Do anything to make standing gain easier, and you'll ruin the datacore market.
The vast majority of the 0.0 living people in the game have access to far more riches than you. Right now, they only come up to empire to rest in their expensive implants or buy crap like books and such. Do you really want them jumping up with their fat wallets and completely flooding the datacore market via bought standings?
Quote: Everyone WILL have those R&D agents sooner or later anyway
I think you underestimate the large % of people who never want to talk to an agent again for fear of death by boredom.
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FT Diomedes
Gallente Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2007.08.22 19:27:00 -
[8]
You can also skill your way out of most of the grind. Social and Connections cuts down on the need for most of the low level grinding. ------------
Improvize. Adapt. Overcome. |
Richy Young
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Posted - 2007.08.22 19:50:00 -
[9]
im fairly new and rubbish the grind yes is boring but it is helping me learn the game, to my eventual rise to the top where all your bases will belong to me
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.08.22 22:25:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Akita T on 22/08/2007 22:29:32
Most of our "corp newbies" have now insane standings with the corp we're running missions with.
The "secret" ? Make a gang of up to 5 people, containing at least ONE member with good corp (or just faction) standings and the rest the ones you want "leveled up". Take only L4 missions. Finish them ASAP. Turn them in as "gang effort".
Voila, insane standings gains for the "new guys". Obviously works best with one member that can take the mission and another single pilot that needs standings helping eachother out with the mission (to finish faster).
As for the ISK/LP gains, I'm pretty sure you can think of a way to compensate your "standings benefactor", if appropriate. He does get storyline missions faster that way, even if he doesn't do anything else but start the mission, bring the gang to the mission entrance, and go AFK afterwards until the mission is done.
_
Complaint vs whine | Char creation guide | Stacknerfs explained |
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Rafein
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Posted - 2007.08.23 09:50:00 -
[11]
actually, you can push this even faster, having multiple mission runners running missions for one gang member. Simply need to keep reorganizing the gang so before someone completes a mission, the newbie is in the gang.
Would work easiest with fleet command one, as the commander can move players as needed, ad keep a gang of runners going as well.
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Khan Dhu
Khan Dhu Research and Cloning
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Posted - 2007.08.23 10:26:00 -
[12]
Being able to bribe agents is a bad idea. Right now there are already hundreds of L4 mission isk farmers for both kill missions and courier missions. 200m could be made up inside of an hour or two this way.
The standings grind sucks, I know. I just hit 9.91 Gallente tonight and got my 2-run Navy Mega BPC from the COSMOS agents.
Now I'm just ****ed I'm so high up and I've reached the ultimate "standings" achievement I can get - there's nothing else left.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.23 11:18:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 23/08/2007 11:21:53 I think all of the posts have missed a non secondary problem that the OP as evidenced.
Not the request to bribe to get a standing, but the effect that power leveling the standing has on the new players.
The autobalancing system for the missions rewars is calibrated on a single player doing the mission and the bonus time and rewards are adjusted to give a balanced reward for 1 player.
As long as single players were running missions with overpowered ships to increase standing when switching corporations, the result was fairly minor, now whole corporations are power leveling new members fast running missions in group, at the same time players new to level 3 and 4 missions are doing them in groups to get faster rewards.
While all the above is very nice and constructive for group play, the end results is that the reward, time to get the bonus and time bonus reward are decreasing as the autobalancing feature don't notice when the mission is done alone or by a group.
That has strong negative effect on the level 5 missions too. As those are done always in group, the autobalancing feature will never get the right reward for them as long as it isn't corrected to include the number of player doing the mission.
One of the results of this limit of the auto balancing feature is that new players that start level 2+ mission will get less reward than the reward an equivalent player would have received some months ago, meaking more difficult for them to get to larger ships and a financial acceptable situation (essentially they will need more grind).
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FT Diomedes
Gallente Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2007.08.23 13:15:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 23/08/2007 11:21:53 Some good stuff...
I think this may actually be a stealthy way of lowering the rewards of high-sec mission running. ------------
Improvize. Adapt. Overcome. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.23 13:45:00 -
[15]
Originally by: FT Diomedes
Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 23/08/2007 11:21:53 Some good stuff...
I think this may actually be a stealthy way of lowering the rewards of high-sec mission running.
In reality it will lower all missions rewards, with the possible exception of some low frequented pirate group.
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RaidenMagmus
Ryder Interstellar Fuel Services
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Posted - 2007.08.28 01:42:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Toria Nynys Low level mission grinding is just a mind numbing timesink. So is gathering ISK. How about it, why not let me buy my way out of a grind I don't find as entertaining and help out the newblets struggling to get started at the same time?
All I can see from that is 12 year olds buying isk online, and then using it to fit a CNR to do level 4's.. I don't like the standing grind either. But that's what we have social skill books for.
Originally by: Shadowsword Bad idea, the standing grind is the only thing that keep everyone and their dogs from having 5 lv4 R&D agents, par character.
*6 R&D Agents :)
Only datacore market I can really see going downhill in the future is Mechanical Engineering. (1.5m a pop is a bit crazy if you ask me.) I think the real market limitation is the limits of 0.0 Explorations reducing the type of data interfaces you can buy in empire.
Originally by: Toria Nynys There are already far more datacores being produced than people with ship data interfaces can soak up.
Ditto, those skill books, and interfaces are still very expensive. But t2 market was so overpriced before invention, it'll take a really long time before prices stabilize like t1 gear.
Originally by: Toria Nynys That's why copying labs are starting to free up all over empire as well.
I don't at all agree with this. If anything even more blueprint R&D is happening, 5-6 day wait times where I did empire research :/
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Zaqar
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Posted - 2007.08.28 11:27:00 -
[17]
Visiting the data centers will help.
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