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Mr fRostiE
Minmatar Blood-Adders
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Posted - 2007.08.16 14:19:00 -
[1]
Probably a very noobish question, but i just thought about it now?
why does it need downtime ?
surely the hamsters pedaling the server are done in a relay team, 1 man on 1 man off (hence the lag spikes) is it for a hamster health check?
hmmm...
Mr fRostiE |
Major Stallion
Four Rings D-L
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Posted - 2007.08.16 14:24:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Mr fRostiE Probably a very noobish question, but i just thought about it now?
why does it need downtime ?
surely the hamsters pedaling the server are done in a relay team, 1 man on 1 man off (hence the lag spikes) is it for a hamster health check?
hmmm...
daily updates to the Database...but im sure someone wil say thats not the case. Theres other reasons that escape me at the moment.
does this affect your goal of playing 24 straight hours or something?? =P
________________________________ High Sec PvP |
Cornucopian
Gallente Dutch Omega United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.16 14:25:00 -
[3]
its a banking scheme.... an EVE Zeitgeist, if you will.... as soon as downtime hits, all the devs, ISD and GMs converge on all the contracts without price, and divvy up the loot. also they loot every 10/10 complex FULL of untouched wrecks. While they are doing this, their mining alts mine all the remaining arkonor in the ENTIRE GALAXY.
then the staff set up juicy market orders, and restart tranq.
TADA!
its a conspiracy I tell you..... a conspiracy!!! ----------------------------------------------- "Yes... I sleep with my myrmidon. It's nothing to be ashamed of!" |
Fearmax
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Posted - 2007.08.16 14:26:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Mr fRostiE Probably a very noobish question, but i just thought about it now?
why does it need downtime ?
surely the hamsters pedaling the server are done in a relay team, 1 man on 1 man off (hence the lag spikes) is it for a hamster health check?
hmmm...
40. Oh I get it... like humor... but different.
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Mr fRostiE
Minmatar Blood-Adders
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Posted - 2007.08.16 14:26:00 -
[5]
no, i barely play an hour a night.. like i said i was just wondering :)
Mr fRostiE |
Wild Rho
Amarr Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.08.16 14:29:00 -
[6]
It's CCP's happy hour. Lots o' drinkage and running around in the nuddy.
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Mr fRostiE
Minmatar Blood-Adders
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Posted - 2007.08.16 14:31:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Fearmax
40. Oh I get it... like humor... but different.
like a useful post, but not ?
Mr fRostiE |
MrTripps
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.08.16 14:36:00 -
[8]
I imagine the SQL databases are easier to back up and modify when they don't have 30,000 clients connected to them.
"They must find it difficult... those who have taken authority as the truth, rather then truth as the authority." - Gerald Massey |
Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.16 14:38:00 -
[9]
There are some things that can't be done while the server is live - converting eggs into full-fledged outposts, adjusting sovereignty, stuff like that. ------------ Whiners - Unite! Tarminic - 26 Million SP in Forum Warfare. |
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CCP John Proctor
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Posted - 2007.08.16 14:45:00 -
[10]
I think I can aswer this question as I am usually the one doing the down times
EVE is a rather large game running on a large server cluster comprising of 2 "farms" You have your proxy servers that you directly connect to, then you have your sol servers where your session is directed too and where all your interactions are carried out at (flying around in space etc...)
We have server processes that run as services on these boxes and are constnatly generating logs and consuming resources on the box, and restarting these services clears there memory and allows us to save there generated logs.
Normally our down times in the past were 20 minutes with Tuesdays and Thursdays reserved for maintiance. But with a larger customer base the needs for maintiance has grown and we have 1 hour downtimes now Monday through Friday and stay with the normal 20 minute downtimes during the weekend.
Now why does maintiance need 1 hour you ask? For 20 minutes of every downtime we have downtime jobs that run. These jobs do everything from reseeding asteriods (there are millions of them) too cleaning up space by deleting corpses (I shed a tear everytime a corpse gets deleted ) to clearing out old logs, deploying outposts, and conducting statistical gathering...
While the server crunches the numbers we do not conduct any normal maintiance as we dont want to lock tables and interfere with the normal downtime jobs so our maintiance must occur outside of this 20 minute window.
Maintiance that needs to be done includes defragmenting the index's that we have on our database... (with over 150 million transactions per day that leads to quite a bit of logical fragmentation) We also delete junkyards on a constant basis... We have designed EvE so that when you get your ship blown up or you refine your ore or you delete an item in your hanger those items are not deleted but instead moved to a junkyard, in this way it allows our Customer Support staff to easily give your items back or allows us to see if something abnormal is happening.
But we need to manually delete junkyards that are more then a month old, with over 30 thousand people constantly logged in every day, with over 100 thousand unique users logged in every day those are a lot of items that are created and deleted every day that accumulate over time.
This is only a tip of the ice berg if what we do during these downtimes but we are trying to create ways to eliminate these and have maintiance done dynamicly as needed automaticly by the system.
In the words of our Cheif Operating Officer here at CCP "I want no downtimes... make it happen!"
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.16 14:54:00 -
[11]
Hrm...interesting post. Out of curiocity, do you guys plan on doing another network/nerdspeak-related devblog about desync or the servers in general? As you've probably realized, I'm quite enjoy them. ------------ Whiners - Unite! Tarminic - 26 Million SP in Forum Warfare. |
Mashie Saldana
Hooligans Of War
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Posted - 2007.08.16 14:57:00 -
[12]
Originally by: CCP John Proctor Maintiance that needs to be done includes defragmenting the index's that we have on our database... (with over 150 million transactions per day that leads to quite a bit of logical fragmentation)
Impressive, that's 1800+ transactions per second on average, no wonder you need a beefy database server. Btw, how big is the full database?
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Cornucopian
Gallente Dutch Omega United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.16 15:00:00 -
[13]
to john proctor:
- you must cry a lot :-) - thanks for the work - couldnt much of the re-seeding be done by procedural software? just set some parameters, and hey presto it gets DONE. ----------------------------------------------- "Yes... I sleep with my myrmidon. It's nothing to be ashamed of!" |
Mr fRostiE
Minmatar Blood-Adders
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Posted - 2007.08.16 15:24:00 -
[14]
ive been honnored with a dev responce and i didnt even ask for one,
thankyou :) its a fantastic insight into what happens, and is possibly even more interesting for me than most as i am from a computing background
thanks again :)
Mr fRostiE |
Tao Han
Synthetic Frontiers
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Posted - 2007.08.16 15:31:00 -
[15]
Sticky this sucka! ------
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theteck
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Posted - 2007.08.16 15:52:00 -
[16]
that a good answer :) thanks john
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Jago Kain
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.08.16 15:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Wild Rho It's CCP's happy hour. Lots o' drinkage and running around in the nuddy.
I think I'm going to be sick.
Oh no, Wild Rho has beaten me to it.
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BLAIYNE
Goats With Aqualungs Derek Knows Us
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Posted - 2007.08.16 16:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: CCP John Proctor We have designed EvE so that when you get your ship blown up or you refine your ore or you delete an item in your hanger those items are not deleted but instead moved to a junkyard, in this way it allows our Customer Support staff to easily give your items back or allows us to see if something abnormal is happening.
Mmmmm..... me wants access to junkyards - I'll help you clear them out!
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Amy Tr'ader
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Posted - 2007.08.16 16:30:00 -
[19]
This thread is getting bookmarked since this question comes up at least once every other week...
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Occara
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Posted - 2007.08.16 17:19:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Cornucopian to john proctor:
- you must cry a lot :-) - thanks for the work - couldnt much of the re-seeding be done by procedural software? just set some parameters, and hey presto it gets DONE.
much h8 for the buzzword "procedural software"
you think he manually creates millions of roids...?
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.08.16 17:22:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mr fRostiE Probably a very noobish question, but i just thought about it now?
why does it need downtime ?
surely the hamsters pedaling the server are done in a relay team, 1 man on 1 man off (hence the lag spikes) is it for a hamster health check?
hmmm...
it is usually over within half an hour often within 20 minutes or less and very rarely is there some extra 5 minutes unannounced downtime ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn |
Rhaegor Stormborn
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Posted - 2007.08.16 17:23:00 -
[22]
Originally by: CCP John Proctor I think I can aswer this question as I am usually the one doing the down times
EVE is a rather large game running on a large server cluster comprising of 2 "farms" You have your proxy servers that you directly connect to, then you have your sol servers where your session is directed too and where all your interactions are carried out at (flying around in space etc...)
We have server processes that run as services on these boxes and are constnatly generating logs and consuming resources on the box, and restarting these services clears there memory and allows us to save there generated logs.
Normally our down times in the past were 20 minutes with Tuesdays and Thursdays reserved for maintiance. But with a larger customer base the needs for maintiance has grown and we have 1 hour downtimes now Monday through Friday and stay with the normal 20 minute downtimes during the weekend.
Now why does maintiance need 1 hour you ask? For 20 minutes of every downtime we have downtime jobs that run. These jobs do everything from reseeding asteriods (there are millions of them) too cleaning up space by deleting corpses (I shed a tear everytime a corpse gets deleted ) to clearing out old logs, deploying outposts, and conducting statistical gathering...
While the server crunches the numbers we do not conduct any normal maintiance as we dont want to lock tables and interfere with the normal downtime jobs so our maintiance must occur outside of this 20 minute window.
Maintiance that needs to be done includes defragmenting the index's that we have on our database... (with over 150 million transactions per day that leads to quite a bit of logical fragmentation) We also delete junkyards on a constant basis... We have designed EvE so that when you get your ship blown up or you refine your ore or you delete an item in your hanger those items are not deleted but instead moved to a junkyard, in this way it allows our Customer Support staff to easily give your items back or allows us to see if something abnormal is happening.
But we need to manually delete junkyards that are more then a month old, with over 30 thousand people constantly logged in every day, with over 100 thousand unique users logged in every day those are a lot of items that are created and deleted every day that accumulate over time.
This is only a tip of the ice berg if what we do during these downtimes but we are trying to create ways to eliminate these and have maintiance done dynamicly as needed automaticly by the system.
In the words of our Cheif Operating Officer here at CCP "I want no downtimes... make it happen!"
Nice Post.
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Price Watcher
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Posted - 2007.08.16 17:37:00 -
[23]
In my real-life job as chief of the Cruelty Labs division of WeSaySo Ltd. I have found that hamsters are particularly sensitive to massive electric shocks.
Originally by: CCP John Proctor In the words of our Cheif Operating Officer here at CCP "I want no downtimes... make it happen!"
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Miki Fin
Gallente Independant Union of Rangers
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Posted - 2007.08.16 17:44:00 -
[24]
Originally by: CCP John Proctor
But we need to manually delete junkyards that are more then a month old, with over 30 thousand people constantly logged in every day, with over 100 thousand unique users logged in every day those are a lot of items that are created and deleted every day that accumulate over time.
If you want a hand with that process, just direct the junk to my hangar and I'll recycle it to help with the environment
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000Hunter000
Gallente Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.08.16 17:57:00 -
[25]
Originally by: CCP John Proctor We also delete junkyards on a constant basis...
hey just give the junk, to me, if that solves the problem.
*gets visions of all the stuf thats beeing refined and recycled and blownup that ends in the junkyards*
but seriously, must be a tough job so keep up the good work John
CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
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Larshus Magrus
Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada
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Posted - 2007.08.16 18:50:00 -
[26]
"We have server processes that run as services on these boxes and are constnatly generating logs and consuming resources on the box, and restarting these services clears there memory and allows us to save there generated logs."
Read: Windows leaks memory like a #%$%^ sieve and after 24 hours you either run or of memory, and bluescreen, or just plain bluescreen.
Hint: There exists a multitude of other OS's that run these same type of processes that are taken down once a quarter, or year only to do hardware upgrades. In fact, look at any large financial institution and you will see these OS's and their hardware in operation.
Quite frankly, having to take large compute and sql clusters offline one hour a day amounts to 4.17% downtime... which would be laughable in any other industry, simply because the machine is "using too many resources"... which is a cop out for either bad implementation of the software running and/or the OS.
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Sayuri
Deathbringers
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Posted - 2007.08.16 19:03:00 -
[27]
To the microsoft hater above me:
Note he said that there were many other things that had to happen, and if you had to stop everything once a day to perform those major operations & backups; Why not enjoy the benifit of a restart?
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An Anarchyyt
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.08.16 19:07:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Larshus Magrus Read: I am king of the entire computer world. Listen to me, I know everything.
And I said it in a much more conscise way than you did.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Taedrin
Gallente Mercatoris Technologies
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Posted - 2007.08.16 19:10:00 -
[29]
Originally by: CCP John Proctor I think I can aswer this question as I am usually the one doing the down times
EVE is a rather large game running on a large server cluster comprising of 2 "farms" You have your proxy servers that you directly connect to, then you have your sol servers where your session is directed too and where all your interactions are carried out at (flying around in space etc...)
We have server processes that run as services on these boxes and are constnatly generating logs and consuming resources on the box, and restarting these services clears there memory and allows us to save there generated logs.
Normally our down times in the past were 20 minutes with Tuesdays and Thursdays reserved for maintiance. But with a larger customer base the needs for maintiance has grown and we have 1 hour downtimes now Monday through Friday and stay with the normal 20 minute downtimes during the weekend.
Now why does maintiance need 1 hour you ask? For 20 minutes of every downtime we have downtime jobs that run. These jobs do everything from reseeding asteriods (there are millions of them) too cleaning up space by deleting corpses (I shed a tear everytime a corpse gets deleted ) to clearing out old logs, deploying outposts, and conducting statistical gathering...
While the server crunches the numbers we do not conduct any normal maintiance as we dont want to lock tables and interfere with the normal downtime jobs so our maintiance must occur outside of this 20 minute window.
Maintiance that needs to be done includes defragmenting the index's that we have on our database... (with over 150 million transactions per day that leads to quite a bit of logical fragmentation) We also delete junkyards on a constant basis... We have designed EvE so that when you get your ship blown up or you refine your ore or you delete an item in your hanger those items are not deleted but instead moved to a junkyard, in this way it allows our Customer Support staff to easily give your items back or allows us to see if something abnormal is happening.
But we need to manually delete junkyards that are more then a month old, with over 30 thousand people constantly logged in every day, with over 100 thousand unique users logged in every day those are a lot of items that are created and deleted every day that accumulate over time.
This is only a tip of the ice berg if what we do during these downtimes but we are trying to create ways to eliminate these and have maintiance done dynamicly as needed automaticly by the system.
In the words of our Cheif Operating Officer here at CCP "I want no downtimes... make it happen!"
Awesome post there. I love it when devs are actually open enough about their game that they are willing to show us what's under the hood, so to speak. I <3 CCP.
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Solan
Dreamscape Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.08.16 19:10:00 -
[30]
Originally by: CCP John Proctor I think I can aswer this question as I am usually the one doing the down times
EVE is a rather large game running on a large server cluster comprising of 2 "farms" You have your proxy servers that you directly connect to, then you have your sol servers where your session is directed too and where all your interactions are carried out at (flying around in space etc...)
We have server processes that run as services on these boxes and are constnatly generating logs and consuming resources on the box, and restarting these services clears there memory and allows us to save there generated logs.
Normally our down times in the past were 20 minutes with Tuesdays and Thursdays reserved for maintiance. But with a larger customer base the needs for maintiance has grown and we have 1 hour downtimes now Monday through Friday and stay with the normal 20 minute downtimes during the weekend.
Now why does maintiance need 1 hour you ask? For 20 minutes of every downtime we have downtime jobs that run. These jobs do everything from reseeding asteriods (there are millions of them) too cleaning up space by deleting corpses (I shed a tear everytime a corpse gets deleted ) to clearing out old logs, deploying outposts, and conducting statistical gathering...
While the server crunches the numbers we do not conduct any normal maintiance as we dont want to lock tables and interfere with the normal downtime jobs so our maintiance must occur outside of this 20 minute window.
Maintiance that needs to be done includes defragmenting the index's that we have on our database... (with over 150 million transactions per day that leads to quite a bit of logical fragmentation) We also delete junkyards on a constant basis... We have designed EvE so that when you get your ship blown up or you refine your ore or you delete an item in your hanger those items are not deleted but instead moved to a junkyard, in this way it allows our Customer Support staff to easily give your items back or allows us to see if something abnormal is happening.
But we need to manually delete junkyards that are more then a month old, with over 30 thousand people constantly logged in every day, with over 100 thousand unique users logged in every day those are a lot of items that are created and deleted every day that accumulate over time.
This is only a tip of the ice berg if what we do during these downtimes but we are trying to create ways to eliminate these and have maintiance done dynamicly as needed automaticly by the system.
In the words of our Cheif Operating Officer here at CCP "I want no downtimes... make it happen!"
You should copy and paste this and make it a blog. I'm sure there are lots of new folks who would love to read this but won't find it buried in this post.
-Solan
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