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Nyack
GREY COUNCIL Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.08.24 06:21:00 -
[1]
well with the development in teh rest of the gaming industry were physics is getting more and mroe important i feel that eve will be put behind if they dont do anything..
i know eve woudl feel alot more alive if we get new pshysics.
for example:
damage type effects on the way your ship explodes. like if you are killed by mostly em damage your ships fries up leaving burnt out but fairly intact hull. kinetic damage rips your ship apart, thermal melts your wreck and explosive makes a nice explosion.
shields effects when guns hits your shields there is visual effect (always dreamt of that one)
scorchmarks on battle scared ships.
capital ships tearing apart slowly and a grand way, in a random way depending on speed, damage types, direction of damage etc.
i feel the new gfx, models and skins will make it all look better but eve will not feel more alive until we get better effects, and physics
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Gus Morgan
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2007.08.24 08:40:00 -
[2]
those things you listed have nothing to do with physics, Those are just cosmetic clientside addons.
proper physic upgrades, which would be VERY demanding and code intensive would be:
Trajectory calulations of missiles to curve and go arround astroids. Line of sight calculations so you cant pew pew people hiding behind objects. Mass calculations and collision handling between ships-ships and ships-random object. gravitation pull by planets and other objects. PROPER speed implementation in frictionless space, calculated by propulsion strength in relationship to inertia and mass. (a ship running its engines would constantly accelerate)
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Kempeth
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Posted - 2007.08.24 09:17:00 -
[3]
and don't forget bumping...
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MaDeX
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Posted - 2007.08.24 11:13:00 -
[4]
Ah, how can we forget bumping
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Loyal Servant
Caldari Viper Intel Squad Pure.
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Posted - 2007.08.24 12:31:00 -
[5]
Bumping another ship or object should cause you to take damage.
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Sleepkevert
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.24 13:04:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Loyal Servant Bumping another ship or object should cause you to take damage.
Lol, i already see the headlines: "Shuttle gang bumps empire freighter to death, CONCORD nowhere to be found."
One more try, then it's over: Sign my sig |
Breal D'nie
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Posted - 2007.08.24 19:00:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Gus Morgan those things you listed have nothing to do with physics, Those are just cosmetic clientside addons.
proper physic upgrades, which would be VERY demanding and code intensive would be:
Trajectory calulations of missiles to curve and go arround astroids. Line of sight calculations so you cant pew pew people hiding behind objects. Mass calculations and collision handling between ships-ships and ships-random object. gravitation pull by planets and other objects. PROPER speed implementation in frictionless space, calculated by propulsion strength in relationship to inertia and mass. (a ship running its engines would constantly accelerate)
My poor cpu! no one with-out the newest dual cores could handle that. but having said that, it would be sweet! especially the hiding behind things, although that would make interceptors alot more resiliant.
Practice safe eating... Always use condiments! |
Valea
Wrath Of Khaine Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.24 19:34:00 -
[8]
The whole "top speed" thing in eve has always bugged me, and I would love to see it somehow removed, but have speed based ships retain their ballance. Maybe a battleship going in a straight line for 100km to get to a can or something would reach 1km/s, but in a fleet battle with lots of orbiting and trajectory changes, it would stay at a lumbering 150m/s.
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Pjotr Gandini
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Posted - 2007.08.24 21:33:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Breal D'nie
Originally by: Gus Morgan those things you listed have nothing to do with physics, Those are just cosmetic clientside addons.
proper physic upgrades, which would be VERY demanding and code intensive would be:
Trajectory calulations of missiles to curve and go arround astroids. Line of sight calculations so you cant pew pew people hiding behind objects. Mass calculations and collision handling between ships-ships and ships-random object. gravitation pull by planets and other objects. PROPER speed implementation in frictionless space, calculated by propulsion strength in relationship to inertia and mass. (a ship running its engines would constantly accelerate)
My poor cpu! no one with-out the newest dual cores could handle that. but having said that, it would be sweet! especially the hiding behind things, although that would make interceptors alot more resiliant.
Not only that but the server will have to control everything your clients sends to the server. That means the server has to recalculate all of those calculations! No server would handle that especially not with the 100vs100 battles in Eve.
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Beastofburden
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Posted - 2007.08.25 16:47:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Pjotr Gandini
Originally by: Breal D'nie
Originally by: Gus Morgan those things you listed have nothing to do with physics, Those are just cosmetic clientside addons.
proper physic upgrades, which would be VERY demanding and code intensive would be:
Trajectory calulations of missiles to curve and go arround astroids. Line of sight calculations so you cant pew pew people hiding behind objects. Mass calculations and collision handling between ships-ships and ships-random object. gravitation pull by planets and other objects. PROPER speed implementation in frictionless space, calculated by propulsion strength in relationship to inertia and mass. (a ship running its engines would constantly accelerate)
My poor cpu! no one with-out the newest dual cores could handle that. but having said that, it would be sweet! especially the hiding behind things, although that would make interceptors alot more resiliant.
Not only that but the server will have to control everything your clients sends to the server. That means the server has to recalculate all of those calculations! No server would handle that especially not with the 100vs100 battles in Eve.
I agree, the load for the server and for some slower PCs could ruin the game, esp. in large scale battles. The idea of having more up-to-date physics is, however, very appealing. LoS and a proper bumping calculation might add a whole new level of tactics (although missles might benefit a bit too much in comparison when you dogfight in a belt, for example).
A more accurate bumping is maybe the most practical of it all, and maybe even the least cpu-hungry, since bumping is calculated already anyway, just not logical.
I¦m curious how a bumping-dmg would affect the game (prolly it¦d be a desater, but hey:) ) .. like, a ship with a total of 3k HP across shield/armor/hull runs into a large 20k-HP ship at full speed, it would destroy the small ship and cause the same amount of dmg (3k) on the bigger one. Or maybe better, same thing based off of mass & speed. Yes, most likely that would totally screw the whole game, but I¦m sure it would be fun to see kamikaze Badgers impacting on a titan *gg*
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SheriffFruitfly
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Posted - 2007.08.25 18:55:00 -
[11]
Gravity and a pathing AI *would* be nice.
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Thulazgu
Caldari Asguard Security Service
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Posted - 2007.08.26 18:59:00 -
[12]
speed times mass equals force which is converted in to pure kinetic dmg for both of the bumping parties :D ---- Live to win, 'till you die, 'till the light dies in your eyes Live to win, take it all, just keep fighting till you fall ~~[Thulazgu Lo'Fayinoq]~~ |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2007.08.26 19:13:00 -
[13]
I forgot who, had said they didn't have the means to upgrade the physics engine (Duality, I believe), at the moment.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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TheJLobes
Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.08.26 20:28:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sleepkevert
Originally by: Loyal Servant Bumping another ship or object should cause you to take damage.
Lol, i already see the headlines: "Shuttle gang bumps empire freighter to death, CONCORD nowhere to be found."
/SIGNED!!!
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Gus Morgan
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2007.08.26 21:53:00 -
[15]
Originally by: An Anarchyyt I forgot who, had said they didn't have the means to upgrade the physics engine (Duality, I believe), at the moment.
oveur?
but yes, the big tax wouldnt be on the individual computer which could handle those calculations really well (see any 1st person shooter), But on the server.
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Mule Maus
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Posted - 2007.08.27 09:41:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Gus Morgan
PROPER speed implementation in frictionless space, calculated by propulsion strength in relationship to inertia and mass. (a ship running its engines would constantly accelerate)
While i agree with your suggestion i have to disaapoint you, a ship flying in space only accelerates to its engine's exhaust speed. The time it needs to accelerate is calculated on the thrust provided by the engine and the mass of the ship itself. Modern ion-drives reach exhausts speeds of up to 40km/s (chemical engines are limited to about 6km/s) but at very little thrust, that is why those are used for satellites and discovery probes but not for our space shuttles.
However, i'd love to have a more realistic physics engine... an interceptor flying with 5km/s against a mothership would scatter at the shield/hull and leave a nice dark mark but not have any effect on the mothership's velocity/alignment. Somebody already mentioned that at least a few people are looking into those issues for kali3.
Secondly EVE certainly needs more graphical effects for shields and explosions. Despite the age of Trinity, even Earth2150 made heavy use of shield effects back in 1999 but from what i know all 3d guys are busy preparing trinity2 for launch later this year... perhaps we could get our shield impact effects after the gfx relaunch ;)
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Gus Morgan
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2007.08.27 10:27:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Gus Morgan on 27/08/2007 10:26:46
Originally by: Mule Maus
Originally by: Gus Morgan
PROPER speed implementation in frictionless space, calculated by propulsion strength in relationship to inertia and mass. (a ship running its engines would constantly accelerate)
While i agree with your suggestion i have to disaapoint you, a ship flying in space only accelerates to its engine's exhaust speed. The time it needs to accelerate is calculated on the thrust provided by the engine and the mass of the ship itself. Modern ion-drives reach exhausts speeds of up to 40km/s (chemical engines are limited to about 6km/s) but at very little thrust, that is why those are used for satellites and discovery probes but not for our space shuttles.
However, i'd love to have a more realistic physics engine... an interceptor flying with 5km/s against a mothership would scatter at the shield/hull and leave a nice dark mark but not have any effect on the mothership's velocity/alignment. Somebody already mentioned that at least a few people are looking into those issues for kali3.
Secondly EVE certainly needs more graphical effects for shields and explosions. Despite the age of Trinity, even Earth2150 made heavy use of shield effects back in 1999 but from what i know all 3d guys are busy preparing trinity2 for launch later this year... perhaps we could get our shield impact effects after the gfx relaunch ;)
yeah that actually makes sense about the propulsion thing.
I would also love shield effects, it would not only be cool, but it would help in a strategic point of view.
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SheriffFruitfly
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Posted - 2007.08.29 04:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Thulazgu speed times mass equals force which is converted in to pure kinetic dmg for both of the bumping parties :D
Um, nothing equals speed (a scalar) times mass (another scalar). The closest meaningful thing to what you said is kinetic energy, which is: k=1/2 mv^2.
If you were after Newton2, then it would be f=dp/dt, where p=mv (a vector).
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Ares Helix
Gallente NunyaBizzness Phobos Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.29 07:32:00 -
[19]
'Orsileus' Federation Navy Flagship, Megathron class (federate issue)...
Surveillance officer: "Sir! We have multiple incoming contacts!" Lord Admiral Supreme: "On Screen! That's all? Five Atron class frigates?" SO: "They've got overdrives sir AND afterburners!!!" LAS: "My God. WEAPONS, TAKE THEM DOWN!" Weapons Control: "Their too fast, our blasters won't catch them!" LAS: "All hands, this is Command, abandon ship, I repeat, Abandon ship!"
teeheehee
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Nyack
GREY COUNCIL Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.08.30 11:03:00 -
[20]
gaah to many geeks in eve..
could have figured out that mentioning physics the math geeks would come out of the woodworks.. i was more talking about graphical physics then actuall space physics =)
for example a driving game.. sure alot of teh experience is how the physics treat your car.. mud tracks bumps in teh road etc but the thing i am talking about is more how your cars is destructible how it falls apart when it explodes etc
i want our ships to feel more generic and "alive" with scorchmarks, explodign in different ways etc.. it gets booring shooting pilots after awhile gettign the standardilezed wrecks and explosion.. i want more cinematic feel to fleet fights were the capital ships breaks apart when killd and leaving bunring wrecks.. for example when you fire at some one at hull damage teh lasers cuts right through the ship.
i dont like the feel of eve taht the models are so static.. the new ORE ship is in the right direction with animated industry mode. small things liek this makes the game more alive in my opinion
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SheriffFruitfly
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Posted - 2007.09.02 00:42:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Nyack gaah to many geeks in eve..
Funny, that. I think there's too many idiots.
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Glarion Garnier
Solar Wind
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Posted - 2007.09.03 00:40:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Nyack gaah to many geeks in eve..
could have figured out that mentioning physics the math geeks would come out of the woodworks.. i was more talking about graphical physics then actuall space physics =)
for example a driving game.. sure alot of teh experience is how the physics treat your car.. mud tracks bumps in teh road etc but the thing i am talking about is more how your cars is destructible how it falls apart when it explodes etc
i want our ships to feel more generic and "alive" with scorchmarks, explodign in different ways etc.. it gets booring shooting pilots after awhile gettign the standardilezed wrecks and explosion.. i want more cinematic feel to fleet fights were the capital ships breaks apart when killd and leaving bunring wrecks.. for example when you fire at some one at hull damage teh lasers cuts right through the ship.
i dont like the feel of eve taht the models are so static.. the new ORE ship is in the right direction with animated industry mode. small things liek this makes the game more alive in my opinion
I totally agree. Physics calculations could be used to enhance visual experience of eve. Tho it's own right.. quite limited in effect. because one does not usually view battles right beside the ships.
-hull of a ship coming into view . fluids excape from within the ship and ignite to stream of fire. (asuming it's something like frozen HHO gas) - Ship hulls shatter to pieces and parts of the debree collide with each other while they explode outwards. - all ships have their own explodable hull structures and in addition all the parts that can explode / brake will be randomly shattered to pieces all via graphics / physics engine on the client side.
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