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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente Endica Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.09.02 21:52:00 -
[121]
Unambiguous announcements and communication ftw I'd say.
_________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well - |
Sleepkevert
Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.02 22:02:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Sleepkevert on 02/09/2007 22:06:36
Originally by: Owi [ 2007.09.02 18:55:34 ] GM Xamother > 5 Minutes left [ 2007.09.02 18:57:13 ] GM Xamother > 3 minutes left [ 2007.09.02 18:58:03 ] GM Xamother > 2 minutes [ 2007.09.02 18:59:01 ] GM Xamother > 1 minute [ 2007.09.02 18:59:31 ] GM Xamother > 30 seconds [ 2007.09.02 18:59:36 ] Myndpyre Ryche > is that until match start for us or match end for them? [ 2007.09.02 18:59:52 ] GM Xamother > 10 seconds [ 2007.09.02 18:59:54 ] GM Xamother > 9 [ 2007.09.02 18:59:55 ] GM Xamother > 8 [ 2007.09.02 18:59:56 ] GM Xamother > 7 [ 2007.09.02 18:59:57 ] GM Xamother > 6 [ 2007.09.02 18:59:59 ] GM Xamother > 5 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:00 ] GM Xamother > 4 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:01 ] GM Xamother > 3 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:02 ] GM Xamother > 2 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:03 ] GM Xamother > 1 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:05 ] GM Xamother > STOP!
Ok, check the timestamps. especially from the last one. If i was in the tourny (going purely hypothetical here), i would start locking as SOON as i think it was 0. So i start locking in mah raven at 00:04 (for as far as i know, this is my starting signal, nice on time too!) and the gm shouts stop in local. I read that at 00:06 because i'm way to tense of starting the fight. Now, i realize o-sht, and i start deactivating all my launchers which i had preactivated. But by the time i reach the last, they already fire because of the sensor booster i had fitted, and the fast locking time.
Now, how am i faulty here? Ok, i read in the other thread it was actually 2 VOLIES of torps, that couldn't have happen this way...
True, shooting an TV ship afterwards is over the top, i agree on that 100%. But that was AFTER the match was forfeited
Sign my sig |
RigelKentaurus
Flying Reblochons Caldari Deep Space Industral
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Posted - 2007.09.02 22:09:00 -
[123]
What I don't understand is that GMs don't run an ECM Burst with 0.1s duration to prevent this to happen... no one would be able to lock at all before the fight starts.
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.02 22:13:00 -
[124]
Originally by: RigelKentaurus What I don't understand is that GMs don't run an ECM Burst with 0.1s duration to prevent this to happen... no one would be able to lock at all before the fight starts.
Easier to forfeit the match.
--- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec. |
Owi
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.09.02 22:16:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Sleepkevert Edited by: Sleepkevert on 02/09/2007 22:06:36
Originally by: Owi [ 2007.09.02 18:55:34 ] GM Xamother > 5 Minutes left [ 2007.09.02 18:57:13 ] GM Xamother > 3 minutes left [ 2007.09.02 18:58:03 ] GM Xamother > 2 minutes [ 2007.09.02 18:59:01 ] GM Xamother > 1 minute [ 2007.09.02 18:59:31 ] GM Xamother > 30 seconds [ 2007.09.02 18:59:36 ] Myndpyre Ryche > is that until match start for us or match end for them? [ 2007.09.02 18:59:52 ] GM Xamother > 10 seconds [ 2007.09.02 18:59:54 ] GM Xamother > 9 [ 2007.09.02 18:59:55 ] GM Xamother > 8 [ 2007.09.02 18:59:56 ] GM Xamother > 7 [ 2007.09.02 18:59:57 ] GM Xamother > 6 [ 2007.09.02 18:59:59 ] GM Xamother > 5 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:00 ] GM Xamother > 4 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:01 ] GM Xamother > 3 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:02 ] GM Xamother > 2 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:03 ] GM Xamother > 1 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:05 ] GM Xamother > STOP!
Ok, check the timestamps. especially from the last one. If i was in the tourny (going purely hypothetical here), i would start locking as SOON as i think it was 0. So i start locking in mah raven at 00:04 (for as far as i know, this is my starting signal, nice on time too!) and the gm shouts stop in local. I read that at 00:06 because i'm way to tense of starting the fight. Now, i realize o-sht, and i start deactivating all my launchers which i had preactivated. But by the time i reach the last, they already fire because of the sensor booster i had fitted, and the fast locking time.
Now, how am i faulty here? Ok, i read in the other thread it was actually 2 VOLIES of torps, that couldn't have happen this way...
True, shooting an TV ship afterwards is over the top, i agree on that 100%. But that was AFTER the match was forfeited
it was 1 volley of cruisemissles .. not 2
My EvE-Files.com folder !
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.09.02 22:16:00 -
[126]
Originally by: RigelKentaurus What I don't understand is that GMs don't run an ECM Burst with 0.1s duration to prevent this to happen... no one would be able to lock at all before the fight starts.
Huh?
They do. The start of each match is signaled by an ECM Burst (particularly powerful) by the GM which wipes all target locks. He warps out and fighting commences.
This is why people in the tourney are seeing GM names on their kill mails (the ECM burst makes the game see them as an aggressor I guess).
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Masu'di
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.09.02 22:19:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Owi
Originally by: Sleepkevert Edited by: Sleepkevert on 02/09/2007 22:06:36
Originally by: Owi [ 2007.09.02 18:55:34 ] GM Xamother > 5 Minutes left [ 2007.09.02 18:57:13 ] GM Xamother > 3 minutes left [ 2007.09.02 18:58:03 ] GM Xamother > 2 minutes [ 2007.09.02 18:59:01 ] GM Xamother > 1 minute [ 2007.09.02 18:59:31 ] GM Xamother > 30 seconds [ 2007.09.02 18:59:36 ] Myndpyre Ryche > is that until match start for us or match end for them? [ 2007.09.02 18:59:52 ] GM Xamother > 10 seconds [ 2007.09.02 18:59:54 ] GM Xamother > 9 [ 2007.09.02 18:59:55 ] GM Xamother > 8 [ 2007.09.02 18:59:56 ] GM Xamother > 7 [ 2007.09.02 18:59:57 ] GM Xamother > 6 [ 2007.09.02 18:59:59 ] GM Xamother > 5 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:00 ] GM Xamother > 4 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:01 ] GM Xamother > 3 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:02 ] GM Xamother > 2 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:03 ] GM Xamother > 1 [ 2007.09.02 19:00:05 ] GM Xamother > STOP!
Ok, check the timestamps. especially from the last one. If i was in the tourny (going purely hypothetical here), i would start locking as SOON as i think it was 0. So i start locking in mah raven at 00:04 (for as far as i know, this is my starting signal, nice on time too!) and the gm shouts stop in local. I read that at 00:06 because i'm way to tense of starting the fight. Now, i realize o-sht, and i start deactivating all my launchers which i had preactivated. But by the time i reach the last, they already fire because of the sensor booster i had fitted, and the fast locking time.
Now, how am i faulty here? Ok, i read in the other thread it was actually 2 VOLIES of torps, that couldn't have happen this way...
True, shooting an TV ship afterwards is over the top, i agree on that 100%. But that was AFTER the match was forfeited
it was 1 volley of cruisemissles .. not 2
I was told it was two,
but just leave it please Owi, there is no point in beating this thing to death.
Es and Whizz is recruiting |
Elmicker
The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities
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Posted - 2007.09.02 22:22:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Yosarian Stop means stop.
However, running a "stop" countdown when the only people on the field are those waiting to start a match is nothing short of moronic. This is especially considering that the people concerned had already asked as to what the countdown was for.
This is honestly worse than the GM conduct after the r0nin vs. goon match, tbpfh.
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The Socialworker
Minmatar The Socialworkers
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Posted - 2007.09.02 22:23:00 -
[129]
I only read the first page of this thread (:0), But just from watchng the tourny that looked like bad refereeing. I'f misstakes happen make room later or another day. We want to see it and they want to do their stuff.
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Owi
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.09.02 22:24:00 -
[130]
ah you know im just sitting here and repley to comments and do what i allways do .. RELAX ^^
My EvE-Files.com folder !
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Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.09.02 23:06:00 -
[131]
I have noticed that the rules are being more strictly adhered to this tourney, most like because any time the GM's have cut someone a break in a case like this in previous years they were accused of favoritism. You can't have it both ways, either they stick to the rules or they give "breaks" to people and open that can of worms. I'd prefer they stick as closely as possible to the rules.
All contestants know they can begin "AFTER" the ECM burst, presumably following a countdown. I'm assuming this was forgotten by your team in the heat of the moment... still 3,2,1,STOP is rather hard to confuse. You didn't wait for the starting ECM burst, you were trying to get an edge... which ironically would have cost you time had the match actually been starting.
While I am sympathetic to your screw up, it was still YOUR screw up. You broke the rules (presumably with 2 volleys depending on who we believe) and it cost you the match... just as the Goons honest mistake cost them the match. Harsh, but just.
By the way people, it's true... Tinfoil hats really DO make you look like an idiot.
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silken mouth
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Posted - 2007.09.03 00:18:00 -
[132]
The Perp: the GMs, for using a countdown to stop and more importantly for not clarifying after being asked to do so by the players.
The Victim: The EVE Comunity, that missed (yet) another interesting and exciting match.
But at least CCP can now prove that their internal affairs department is working properly.
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Paniq
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.03 01:01:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Masu'di
Originally by: Owi it was 1 volley of cruisemissles .. not 2
I was told it was two,
but just leave it please Owi, there is no point in beating this thing to death.
Having been sitting in the Maulus on the receiving end I can confirm that it were two (2) volleys, not one.
First volley took the ship to ~35-40% armor, second volley finished it off.
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Hllaxiu
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.09.03 01:31:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Ranger 1 All contestants know they can begin "AFTER" the ECM burst, presumably following a countdown. I'm assuming this was forgotten by your team in the heat of the moment... still 3,2,1,STOP is rather hard to confuse. You didn't wait for the starting ECM burst, you were trying to get an edge...
My client showed no indication of an ECM burst being fired at the beginning of the Morsus Mihi - Aftermath battle. I recall no graphical effect and nothing was logged. If you will look on our killboard, Cividari and I both posted the loss mails of our Mauluses - neither has a GM ECM burst on them. The mails for the two destroyed Aftermath Caracals also have no ECM burst on them.
I am led to the conclusion that there was no ecm burst at the beginning of this match. However it may be that they did it, but it was not logged by the client/killmail system - I did not have any locks at the time so have no idea. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Spyra Gryra
Enough is Enough
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Posted - 2007.09.03 02:00:00 -
[135]
Why is everyone getting so ****ed off over them popping the cameramans ship? I mean it can be respawned, so why give a ****, it's not like the broke something real.
The countdown was very vague and no one answered the MC's guys question, why not? It was very pertaint given the circumstances.
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Farscape Hw
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.09.03 02:17:00 -
[136]
ya know im glad that ccp actually give us this official alliance tournament and ive really enjoyed being in it. its not like they have to or anything. so thank you ccp.
ive recently experienced a GM doing something against the rules at the benifit of one alliance but i also watched another GM overturn what the first one did and set it right.
i wasnt there and didnt see what happened, but i would like an explination from sharkbait as to why he said this:
"there was no countdown to start the match and shouldn't have been any fighting."
but from that chatlog of local, he was clearly either mistaken or lying.
i sure hope he was mistaken or its just me missing something alltogather.
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Ki Tarra
Caldari Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2007.09.03 02:20:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Ki Tarra on 03/09/2007 02:23:07 My opinion on this from what I have read in this thread is that it was a bad call on the part of the GM's.
Yes, shooting at the camerma man was a bad call on the part of the players, but it would never have happened if the GMs had done a good job of setting up the match.
Running overtime or not, niether team should have been told to warp to the arena until the previous match was finished. That was the first mistake of the GMs. Looking at the schedule there should have been atleast 5 minutes between the end of the last match and the start of the next.
Second was not announcing what the count down was counting to. Unless that announcement was not included in the posted transcript. But it should have been posted in between the transition from minutes to seconds, so that everyone was clear as to what was going on. Looking at the time stamps on the chat log, it the timing was just about spot on for the start of the match. They have a count down less than 5 seconds off of the scheduled start time, and no comment stating that they would be starting late! If the transcript is wrong, lets see the official version.
Yes, the count down ended with the word "Stop", but with the expected adrielene I don't think that it matters what comes after "3... 2... 1..." weapons will be activated.
With GoonSwarm it should have been GoonSwarm's responsiblity, not the GM's, to make sure that they have the correct players with the correct ships in their gang.
With this, it sounds like the GM's did a crappy job setting up the match.
I don't know what to do about it at this point, but I certainly hope that the GMs are not putting the responsiblity for this mess up completely on the part of Hedonistic Imperative. Normally I back GM desisions, but in this case I would atleast like to hear from the GMs What will they do in future matches to make sure that their instructions are understood?
************************** Ki Tech Industries - Bond Offer |
Dream
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Posted - 2007.09.03 02:35:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Farscape Hw ya know im glad that ccp actually give us this official alliance tournament and ive really enjoyed being in it. its not like they have to or anything. so thank you ccp.
ive recently experienced a GM doing something against the rules at the benifit of one alliance but i also watched another GM overturn what the first one did and set it right.
i wasnt there and didnt see what happened, but i would like an explination from sharkbait as to why he said this:
"there was no countdown to start the match and shouldn't have been any fighting."
but from that chatlog of local, he was clearly either mistaken or lying.
i sure hope he was mistaken or its just me missing something alltogather.
There was a countdown, but it was for a match to -end- not to -begin-. |
Farscape Hw
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.09.03 02:39:00 -
[139]
Edited by: Farscape Hw on 03/09/2007 02:40:58
Originally by: Dream
Originally by: Farscape Hw ya know im glad that ccp actually give us this official alliance tournament and ive really enjoyed being in it. its not like they have to or anything. so thank you ccp.
ive recently experienced a GM doing something against the rules at the benifit of one alliance but i also watched another GM overturn what the first one did and set it right.
i wasnt there and didnt see what happened, but i would like an explination from sharkbait as to why he said this:
"there was no countdown to start the match and shouldn't have been any fighting."
but from that chatlog of local, he was clearly either mistaken or lying.
i sure hope he was mistaken or its just me missing something alltogather.
There was a countdown, but it was for a match to -end- not to -begin-.
wow that is confusing... that sucks they were disqualified for something so unclear. some kind of clarification between these two lines would have prevented it.
[ 2007.09.02 18:59:36 ] Myndpyre Ryche > is that until match start for us or match end for them? [ 2007.09.02 18:59:52 ] GM Xamother > 10 seconds
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Owi
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.09.03 02:43:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Owi on 03/09/2007 02:44:26
Originally by: Paniq
Originally by: Masu'di
Originally by: Owi it was 1 volley of cruisemissles .. not 2
I was told it was two,
but just leave it please Owi, there is no point in beating this thing to death.
Having been sitting in the Maulus on the receiving end I can confirm that it were two (2) volleys, not one.
First volley took the ship to ~35-40% armor, second volley finished it off.
well yes ok .. it was two .. our pilot confirmed that ..but it was a missunderstood not our plan take you out befor the regular match starts. He was way irritated by all this and didnt turn the mods off quick enough.
Also MC woulndt had got the full 150 points that givs them now almost the groupwin for nothin ... *coughs
My EvE-Files.com folder !
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Paniq
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.09.03 02:54:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Owi Edited by: Owi on 03/09/2007 02:44:26
Originally by: Paniq
Originally by: Masu'di
Originally by: Owi it was 1 volley of cruisemissles .. not 2
I was told it was two,
but just leave it please Owi, there is no point in beating this thing to death.
Having been sitting in the Maulus on the receiving end I can confirm that it were two (2) volleys, not one.
First volley took the ship to ~35-40% armor, second volley finished it off.
well yes ok .. it was two .. our pilot confirmed that ..but it was a missunderstood not our plan take you out befor the regular match starts. He was way irritated by all this and didnt turn the mods off quick enough.
Don't get me wrong, I was not implying that there had been any deliberate foul play on your behalf - I was merely clarifying. I think everyone can see that this is just a case of a simple human error which unfortunately had harsh consequences.
Personally I would have loved to see the match fought to the end, and I'm sure the other participants would say the same. Regardless, what's done is done and it's no use beating dead horses. I wish you luck in your upcoming matches, I know we're looking forward to ours.
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Owi
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.09.03 02:57:00 -
[142]
Edited by: Owi on 03/09/2007 02:57:02 how can we look into the furture tourney thats allready lost for us .. :( about information lag
My EvE-Files.com folder !
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Faith Rose
Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.09.03 03:06:00 -
[143]
Edited by: Faith Rose on 03/09/2007 03:07:36 After reading this thread in full, i most conclude the mistakes easly could have been avoided in several differant ways. i'll list 2...... 1. GM's could have made sure no one was on the field while one match was active. This will prevent, said kind of event from happening in the first place. Simple question Do ya have the option of warping in at differant ranges? (At start of match or r u at pre-set range.) 2.If count down was set, then you warp to combat area that whole mess could have been avoided in a differant way.
No real point here-- camara man if he's lockable he is far game- As said by gm he failed to report and ended up geting nailed.
Simple mistake....Live and Learn CCP ---The End--- "How do you kill... that which has no life?"
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Owi
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.09.03 03:18:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Faith Rose Edited by: Faith Rose on 03/09/2007 03:07:36 After reading this thread in full, i most conclude the mistakes easly could have been avoided in several differant ways. i'll list 2...... 1. GM's could have made sure no one was on the field while one match was active. This will prevent, said kind of event from happening in the first place. Simple question Do ya have the option of warping in at differant ranges? (At start of match or r u at pre-set range.) 2.If count down was set, then you warp to combat area that whole mess could have been avoided in a differant way.
No real point here-- camara man if he's lockable he is far game- As said by gm he failed to report and ended up geting nailed.
Simple mistake....Live and Learn CCP ---The End---
recording to my logs from first match there wasnt such countdown to end the match befor ours, even there was on running .. wonder if any other team saw a countdown like this befor yours match !?
Like faith said.. CCP shouldt make clear orders to the gms and they make it to the players.
My EvE-Files.com folder !
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Zyta Eke
Bombshell Cartel
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Posted - 2007.09.03 03:23:00 -
[145]
GMs: please don't be so trigger-happy with the disqualifications. Both incidents were obvious misunderstandings and both were easily fixed. Is there no room for compassion?
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Dark 0men
Minmatar Heimatar Exploration Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.03 03:35:00 -
[146]
I'd like to state that I don't give a damn about HI's and Sharkbait's temper tantrums. You are not a bunch of antisocial 9 year olds in a sandbox. I want a good match, not interweb drama.
In case it's not clear at CCP HQ, I'm paying you for entertainment. I wouldn't care if HI's CEO called Oveur's mother a ***** -- get over your important selves and find a way to make this work.
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uoY delliK
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Posted - 2007.09.03 04:02:00 -
[147]
Not sure if anyone here has actually played this game... But if you had mods hot, and you see "0" and start lock, with a couple sensor boosters: A) nobody can stop that lock from happening, B) unless your hovering over f1-f8 (which I highly doubt, with mods hot) you're never stopping your volley.. I think its a BS DQ, but I honestly dont care, cause BE will take the tourney.
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Aeaus
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.09.03 04:47:00 -
[148]
Great going there GMs, being unresponsive when asked a question but somehow expecting an instant reaction from the player side after they let their missiles fly.
This kind of stuff happened to SF in the last alliance, in our first match our enemy opened up on us by accident, we killed their flycatcher, both sides apologized in local and another flycatcher was built with exact fittings, the fight was delayed for maybe five minutes. We lost that fight, but at least it was because they bought a better setup then a one-off mistake getting them DQed.
This situation is worse because the GMs were extremely confusing with their countdown in local, no player foul except for being ready to fight as far as I see.
--
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Conan Valkov
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2007.09.03 05:16:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Paniq Don't get me wrong, I was not implying that there had been any deliberate foul play on your behalf - I was merely clarifying. I think everyone can see that this is just a case of a simple human error which unfortunately had harsh consequences.
And just a quick note: we all have great appreciation for MC's pilots and none of us considered the possibility of foul play (at least not seriously). I apologise if any of our alliance members have appeared dis-respectful of your pilots -- that's not on. It was indeed just an unfortunate accident.
However, considering the mis-communication leading to the accident we were truly surprised when a DQ was called. The chatlog represents essentially all the information pilots are given. Until you fly in the tournament you don't know if there is a "Go" or a "0" or a "Fire!" and given that the stop command was a second late I'm surprised others didn't fire too. (I couldn't even remember what the last command was in our earlier fight.) Nobody was trying to cheat, just follow our orders.
So I was expecting the GMs, during the time we were waiting for an explanation of why we were told to "Stop!", to be rebuilding your ship. From the killmail and wreck they can determine the exact fitting, rebuild it in a GM station and transport it back for you to climb in. The GM even said "Don't touch the Wreck". Even without GM tools I think it could be done quite effectively. Would this set a precedent? Not at all. All the GM had to do was see your (MC's) question in local and make sure the count-down was clear. That particular accident was their fault. I didn't actually see that question so I had no idea that another team was fighting.
Anyway I just wanted to add that we were looking forward to the fight and although you may well have won, I think we had in enough planning and preparation to put on a good show this time. And who knows... maybe we'd have surprised you
Everyone lost out here.
Best of luck in your remaining fights.
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Faith Rose
Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.09.03 05:43:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Owi
Like faith said.. CCP should make clear orders to the gms and they make it to the players.
*edited above* i don't remmeber typing that but i'll agree
I'm not trying to bash on you gm's. Take a step back breath a little, communicate clearly or emo things will start happening. "How do you kill... that which has no life?"
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