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RtoZ
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Posted - 2007.09.06 10:21:00 -
[1]
Jita is a contract hub. A lot of people throw contracts there because they know people will look there first. A lot of people throw contracts up there because the sort of people who buy faction and deadspace stuff want to buy it all with one trip. A lot of people have alts there for this purpose, me included.
If the contract system were redesigned to be location independant, as private item exchange contracts allready are, then there would be less need to centralise activity in Jita. People would still travel to get their items, but less people would be travelling to jita specifically to throw the contracts up there. Over time the normal market in jita would also shrink slightly due to a domino effect.
I won't pretend this would solve the Jita issue, I don't even think it should be solved, we need hubs, but it would give ccp some breathing room while their server system works up to being able to handle 1000+ people on a single node.
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kaeri
Gallente
Kaeri Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.06 11:31:00 -
[2]
Edited by: kaeri on 06/09/2007 11:32:21
/signed
the amount of times ive flown all the way to jita or perimeter to accept a contract...adding to the lagfest. When I dont actually need to move the item...
Allowing non region acceptance of public contratcs would only help the situation. Im sure most people find the region limit a pain anyway...
either that or give us a contract skill that allows us to accpet contracts 1 region away...2, 3 or 4 regions away dependant on skill level...or something like that?
[Kaeri] |
Falbala
Gallente
Les Enfants de Gaia
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Posted - 2007.09.06 11:37:00 -
[3]
What do you mean by location independent? I think I misunderstood.
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Kirjava
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.06 12:00:00 -
[4]
Agreed - I keep an alt in Jita just to grab those lovely bpc contracts.
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J'Mkarr Soban
Amarr
Shadows of the Dead
Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.06 12:13:00 -
[5]
Edited by: J''Mkarr Soban on 06/09/2007 12:13:42
Why not make the contracts like research, there's only a number of slots per station. Maybe also add that corps with offices get a dozen or so extra slots just for their use. Wouldn't be too hard to implement.
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"Oh, we're sorry, you had the 'NakedAmarrChicks' bit flagged in your account somehow."
"Wait, why was there even a flag for that to begin with?"
"..." |
RtoZ
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Posted - 2007.09.06 16:15:00 -
[6]
Edited by: RtoZ on 06/09/2007 16:26:56
But do we really want MORE limitations in gameplay? CCP is constantly about the nerf, and its quite annoying sometimes. For once I would like to see a solution to a problem that didn't have to be more skill training some more or flying across half of eve...
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Chasey Lain
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Posted - 2007.09.06 16:21:00 -
[7]
Bring back Escrow!
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kaeri
Gallente
Kaeri Corp
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Posted - 2007.09.06 16:34:00 -
[8]
A contract skill would sort the issue somewhat i think....we have similar trade skills, why not for contracting also?
id quite happily train a skill to allow me to see contracts further away or something like that...
[Kaeri] |
Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar
Aeden
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.09.06 16:38:00 -
[9]
/me look at Jita noxcium's price.
/me finds it 20 isk less than Heimatar.
/me buy 2b of nocxium in Jita.
/me contract to an alt docked in Heimatar.
/me say yes on my alt
/me get 3b.
not signed.
2isk
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Penja
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Posted - 2007.09.06 18:12:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn
/me look at Jita noxcium's price.
/me finds it 20 isk less than Heimatar.
/me buy 2b of nocxium in Jita.
/me contract to an alt docked in Heimatar.
/me say yes on my alt
/me get 3b.
not signed.
/you still has to transport it.
Quote:
People would still travel to get their items
Still don't like the idea?
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MITSUK0
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Posted - 2007.09.06 18:13:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Chasey Lain
Bring back Escrow!
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RtoZ
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Posted - 2007.09.07 17:18:00 -
[12]
Edited by: RtoZ on 07/09/2007 17:25:07
Kweel Nakashyn: What is there to stop you doing the same thing now? Your example is totally irrelevant.
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azura nester
Caldari
White Shadow Imperium
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Posted - 2007.09.07 18:33:00 -
[13]
the answer is not getting people out, its a matter of load balancing.
ccp should introduce a system that allows the server to allocate resources from systems with very few people in it, to the ones that have more. if they reduced this, it would more then likly elimitate 99% of lag in Jita...or even gate fights involving 100+ ships in each fleet.
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Billy Sastard
Amarr
Life. Universe. Everything.
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.07 18:43:00 -
[14]
You actually hit on the problem of jita in the OP, but your solution doesnt seem like it would actually solve anything.
The problem with jita is that it is like a Super Wal-Mart in a rural town somewhere. You can go to 3 different shops to do your shopping, or you can make 1 trip to the super wal-mart and get everything you need. (sorry for the analogy, i live in a rural town and it is like wal-mart is the jita of this town... at any time on any day there seem to be more people at that store than any of the other places combined  )
A central trade hub is almost a guarantee. As long as you have to go pick up the things you buy, then people will start to congregate in one system/group of systems to provide as many items as possible in that one location. This is not really a bad thing to be honest, it is just the sad fact that the servers cannot take the load so you end up with lag.
-=^=-
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Lucius Lefebvre
Jus des Dieux
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Posted - 2007.09.07 19:08:00 -
[15]
Hopefully, an idea like The Interbus (bottom of page) would alleviate a lot of the Jita traffic; check the market from a nearby system and simply order online  . I think that it's inevitable - and useful - that hubs will always develop, so reducing physical traffic appears to be the key. Also, a "ring road" of bypass systems would be useful, not only for those of us just passing through, but for the node itself.
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Rashmika Sky
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Posted - 2007.09.07 23:40:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Rashmika Sky on 07/09/2007 23:43:16
I'm not sure if what I'm about to suggest is a horrible idea or what... but the OP made me think of it, so it's their fault if it is. ;)
*Actually, come to think of it... that Interbus thing that was linked earlier is basically the same thing though without players doing the transporting? If so, I guess this isn't worth reading...*
Anyway, the basic idea is along these lines:
We already have the ability to set up courier jobs for other players to transport items for us. If there were more couriers, perhaps there would be less desire for centralized hubs like Jita.
However, courier jobs currently tend to be risky financially for one side or the other. Either the courier is expected to put up a ridiculous amount of isk for collateral, or the person they are transporting the item for has no reasonable safe-guard to prevent the courier from stealing the item.
When I first started playing Eve, I looked at courier jobs, figuring I could make some money that way while exploring the Eve-verse... but it quickly became obvious that the risks outweighed the rewards, assuming I even had enough isk to take on the job in the first place. I mean, 100mil collateral for a delivery paying a 10 mil reward? What if you get blown up?
If a different method of providing security for the person requesting courier service could be created, that would not impose unfair risks to the courier, perhaps more pilots would be willing to take on courier jobs, thus negating the need to bring everything to one overpopulated system?
If the bounty system worked better, it'd be simple - if the courier fails to complete the job in a satisfactory manner, they get a bounty equal to the item value placed on their head. Sadly, the bounty system is easily exploited or worked around...
Lowering the security status of the courier for failing to complete deliver the item might do the trick, but then again, security status can be rebuilt without too much trouble, and also, alts can take courier jobs... and who cares about sec stat on an alt, really?
Having a 3rd party insurance, similar to what we currently have for ships, might be feasible, but possibly could be exploited since the items being stolen still exist, unlike a blown up ship.
Anyone think adjustments to the courier system could help improve situtations like Jita? And if so, any ideas how to adjust the system to make it work?
-Rash
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Golden Helmet
Caldari
No way I'm going to Deep Core Mining
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Posted - 2007.09.07 23:54:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Chasey Lain
Bring back Escrow!
QFT. I miss the old Escrow system, contracts sucks bad.
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Grant Miller
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Posted - 2007.09.08 02:21:00 -
[18]
Originally by: azura nester
the answer is not getting people out, its a matter of load balancing.
ccp should introduce a system that allows the server to allocate resources from systems with very few people in it, to the ones that have more. if they reduced this, it would more then likly elimitate 99% of lag in Jita...or even gate fights involving 100+ ships in each fleet.
then you get lag in systems where there is just a few people. and trust me, there are many many more systems that would lag just to save a few during a fleet battle or help jita out.
they need more resources for their nodes. if it was as simple as you say, they would have done it by now. these people are paid nicely to think like this.
people tend to have an image of the devs as being blind to the community. no, theyre not blind, they just ignore most of the comments because theyre stupid or cant work.
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Vele Nori
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.09.08 05:12:00 -
[19]
I don't quite understand, may be I am missing something here. The only reason to be in Jita is to pick up your items. You can accept contracts that were set up in Jita from any system in Forge region, accept them from Perimeter for example, or hang around in New Caldari or Nyiabainen. You can put up a contract in Jita from anywhere in EVE universe as it is not limited by region. There is absolutely no reason to be in Jita to create or accept contracts.
I think most lag is caused by people coming and leaving, docking and undocking, running missions, and fitting their ships. There would be much less lag if people were just picking up their items and quickly leaving with them. If they could take their fittings/ships with them and fit them elsewhere or run missions elsewhere that would already improve the lag. But the lag is really bad only about a few hours each day. If I arrive in Jita and it is horribly lagging, I go to some nearby system to do my business. It is a very simple solution to the Jita lag problem.
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RtoZ
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Posted - 2007.09.08 15:04:00 -
[20]
Edited by: RtoZ on 08/09/2007 15:04:36
The reason is they all mostly use the same station, so people use Jita 4-4 as you would a wallmart. In one trip you drop off goods, pick up contracts, setup your own and buy stuff off the market... Plus Jita borders 3 regions, all of them high sec caldari, which as everyone knows is the busiest space in eve. Then there is geographic awareness. Everyone knows where jita is, but not that many are aware of its border systems. A host of factors make jita jita, my post was just to address one of them and get a ripple effect in the mid term. The only reason I don't pick up more contracts out of jita is simply because its too much hassle for me to fly and accept them, and that is why secondary hubs don't thrive, Jita caters to all of eve, Amarr caters to amarr, Rens to Minmatar, Oursalert to Gallente. With my proposed change to the contract system the secondary hubs would grow as they would start to become a viable market due to increased contract movement.
But I repeat, it would not kill Jita, at most it would reduce the movement there slightly. It's an optimization, not a fix. I believe in hubs, I know they are inevitable. But we can have more than one 
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Sikozu Prioris
Cirrius Technologies
O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.09.08 16:40:00 -
[21]
The problem with jita as everyone knows that there is too many people for the node to cope. CCP has already moved jita to its own dedicated server within the the cluster but this only helped for a while.
With the current programming and version of python, a system can only be assigned to one cpu (or node), but multiple systems can be assigned to each cpu. There is simply too much data for it to handle, hence the lag. In rev3 when the whole base coding is overhauled, CCP will be able to distribute load across multiple nodes for one system (use multiple cpus for each system). Not only will multiple nodes be able to handle systems, there should be dynamic load handling which will allow for instance if 400 people converge into one system for a large battle the cluster will dectect this and start assigning aditional nodes as needed to the system.
Jita will proberly have its server upgraded to have multiple nodes (and cpus) and should be able to cope much better with the numbers.
Interbus will help the situation of trade hubs quite well if it introduced, but further measures really arnt needed if the upgrades to game coding have the planned effect.
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Grendelsbane
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Posted - 2007.09.08 16:47:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Grendelsbane on 08/09/2007 16:47:28
Jita is a result of simple human laziness and the ability to rationalize a larger problem that one is a part of into everyone else's problem
I mean, for crying out loud, all you people who want less people in Jita -- JUST SO YOU CAN GO THERE YOURSELF WITHOUT THEM LAGGING YOU UP!
How many people have failed to realize that?
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sicarri Covenant
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Posted - 2007.09.08 16:50:00 -
[23]
Just lower Jita's security status... see how many freighters and haulers sit around if it were 0.4 
Originally by: Liz Kali
Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking
Originally by: TheDagda
*click*
For the love of the jovians stops necroing
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Sikozu Prioris
Cirrius Technologies
O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.09.08 16:56:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Just lower Jita's security status... see how many freighters and haulers sit around if it were 0.4
These ideas are stupid. People only suggest them as on the day it happens there will be lots of rich pickings. This will not solve anything since the hub will simply regain in a system next door.
Trade hubs are always going to happen no matter what people do, its natural occurance and the proof is in the world we live in. Although in eve trade hubs can become laggy with lots of people in them, the advantages are that you can go to one place and get all that you need.
Have to fly to multiple places to fit a ship, no thanks.
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.09.09 12:13:00 -
[25]
disagreed
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CCP Morpheus was here 
Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn
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