Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Lielu Lee
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 11:11:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Lielu Lee on 06/09/2007 11:16:41 This is short post to inform all of you hi sec carebears on how to survive in hi sec :)
If you need to haul valuable stuff, you can do it in few ways:
----deleted---this is not vialable option a. Put things into secured cargo cans. It cannot be scanned, so no one will risk ship on this. ----deleted---
b. Calculate. Ganker will loose his ship while attacking you so he must calculate and will attack only those ships that will give him high probability of making income. This means you have to calculate on your side and take us only as much stuff as you should to not give profit to possible ganker. For example: you have 100k of zydrine to haul. 100k of zydrine * 2100 (price of zydrine) = around 210m. This means that you cannot haul that in anything that can be ganked by 2, 3 t1 bs's.
|
Yao Shiu
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 11:15:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Lielu Lee
a. Put things into secured cargo cans. It cannot be scanned, so no one will risk ship on this.
are you sure? I thought I read a while back that you could scan the contents of secure cans inside a hauler? do correct me if I'm wrong though
|
RaTTuS
BIG
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 11:15:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Lielu Lee
a. Put things into secured cargo cans. It cannot be scanned, so no one will risk ship on this.
Yes it can -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve & RaTTuS Home
|
Lielu Lee
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 11:17:00 -
[4]
first post modified.
|
Yao Shiu
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 11:20:00 -
[5]
however, if your stuff is in a secure can, will it be in a locked secure can when you pop? that'd be the gankers couldnt get at your loot, right?
or would they scoop the whole can, and then reprocess the whole thing?
|
Falbala
Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 11:20:00 -
[6]
I just make Courier mission, Collateral 50% above estimated value, I pay 2 or 3% of the Collateral to the freigher.
|
Steve Hawkings
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 11:24:00 -
[7]
lol @ clueless OP. Dont use a t1 indy, Dont go on autopilot.
Then u will be safe
|
RaTTuS
BIG
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 11:30:00 -
[8]
how to survive,
a) - Use Blockade runner and WTZ - do not go afk and use the A/P
b) - Clone jump [this leaves the stuff behind though]
c) - don't carry anything expensive
d) - make several trips -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve & RaTTuS Home
|
Shanur
Minmatar Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 11:47:00 -
[9]
c. Beef up. T2 deep space transport ships offer a similar cargo capacity as upper tier T1 industrials, but have vastly superior tanking abilities. Toghether with a generous application of shield mods, it should be enough to GREATLY increase the cost of ganking you in high sec. In fact, the tanking abilitie of these babies is enough to amke your hauler an inviable target for all but the largest most dedicated suicide camps.
d. Slip trough. The great catch-20 with any gate camp is that unless the gankers bring in a HUGE amount of firepower (think blob worthy of nullsec battles), they won't be able to destroy a medium sized ship in a single volley. This means that if you can avoid being tackled, you'll survive. Try a T2 blockade runner transport. These babies are designed to get right trough low sec gatecamps(and actually stand a chance of busting trough a bubble camp using speed), and as such should do great in high sec suicide camps (where the pirates first have to scan your cargo to see if you are worth the destroyed ships). They align fast enough to make locking and scrambling without ships specially designed for fast locking hard, and when they do they carry a built in stab to stop those pirates foolish enough to put all their egs into a single scrambling module. The alignment speed and high cruise speed will also help a lot in avoiding the first step in high sec piracy: having your cargo scanned in the first place.
e. Leapfrog. If you do have to ship a lot of stuff into a major trade hub, and the bolume is such that you simply can not possibly use a smaller faster ship to bring it in without going insane with boredom, why not use the big hauler to bring the goods to a neighbouring system, dock there, and then use the smaller ship to shuttle the goods trough the trade hub gatecamp with a set of manageable one jump treks? This will also allow you to get some intel on whether the gatecamp is still in place or if you can chance busting trough it with your hauler.
f. Plan ahead. If there is more than one way into your destination (or its neighbouring sustems as mentioned above), check the map to see if suicide gankers might be active. High sec pirates will not pod (too great a sec hit, no monetary gain and requires a second concordokken to complete), so just check for ships destroyed the last 30 minutes. You can discount a few of those to can baiters and wars (in fact, you can safely subtract ALL podkills from the ships destroyed count because those will have been made by warring corps). If the number is still uncomfortably high, expect a camp. Maybe park your hauler at the last junction before you have to decide whether to risk the system or go around it, and check it out in your pod. Good intel helps a lot in avoiding ganks.
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 11:47:00 -
[10]
Another option: fill your ship with enormous amounts of assorted, unstacked, low-volume junk (salvage components work well) so people don't spot the valuable items when they scan your ship. People will not usually gamble on a suicide attack when they're not sure what you're carrying. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats |
|
Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 11:52:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lielu Lee b. Calculate. Ganker will loose his ship while attacking you so he must calculate and will attack only those ships that will give him high probability of making income. This means you have to calculate on your side and take us only as much stuff as you should to not give profit to possible ganker. For example: you have 100k of zydrine to haul. 100k of zydrine * 2100 (price of zydrine) = around 210m. This means that you cannot haul that in anything that can be ganked by 2, 3 t1 bs's.
Unless the ganker is doing it for kicks. In which case your ISK-centric view of the world fails. Just like your hull will.
|
Shanur
Minmatar Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 11:54:00 -
[12]
Finally, i wish there was an option to hire escorts to take on suicide campers, but unfortunately the mechanics of high sec make it impossible for an armed escort to guarantee the safety of the ship they are hired to protect (i don't consider a backup hauler a valid alternative. a lot of the cargo will have been blasted to bits which is exactly what you paid the escorts for to avoid). High sec hauling will therefore always remain a solo effort, and the trick to preventing suicide ganking will continue to be based on evasion rather than force of arms.
|
Falbala
Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 11:56:00 -
[13]
You can use a decoy, an alt with an empty indy, they target and scan, now you go through before they target you.
|
Miki Fin
Gallente Independant Union of Rangers
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 12:01:00 -
[14]
It is not an exploit to transport bookmarks from station to station.
|
Matthew
Caldari BloodStar Technologies
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 12:08:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lielu Lee ----deleted---this is not vialable option a. Put things into secured cargo cans. It cannot be scanned, so no one will risk ship on this. ----deleted---
To clarify, this did used to work, but was fixed in the Rev2.0 patch (33752), according to the patch notes.
Originally by: Lielu Lee b. Calculate. Ganker will loose his ship while attacking you so he must calculate and will attack only those ships that will give him high probability of making income.
This is by far the safest approach. Remember, with high-sec ganking, you the hauler chooses the risk vs reward balance for the ganker. Just because you can fit a cargo into your ship doesn't mean that it's a good idea to (I'm thinking expanded iterons full of zyd here ).
Yes, playing it safe like this may mean you go slower or need more trips, but that's the risk vs reward balancing out the lower risk of the safer choice.
The disadvantage of this approach is that it requires the gankers to be acting profitably. It will not protect you if they make a mistake, and it will not protect you if they're just out to kill something for laughs.
There are also other options though, both based around preventing the gankers from knowing you're a good target in the first place. They still require sacrificing hauling efficiency for survivability though:
c. Use of cloak/covops. Especially effective for very small, high value density items. Requires a fair bit of skill to do properly, and training of non-industrial skill paths, but if done right they won't be able to see you long enough to assess if you're worth ganking, and hopefully not even long enough to lock you. The covops frigate or recon ship are recommended for this as being able to warp cloaked increases the effectiveness of this tactic a lot.
The disadvantage of this is that it relies heavily on remaining cloaked. This can be tricky at busy gates, and you can't cloak immediately on undocking either.
d. Speed. Even if they have sensor boosted ships, they're still going to need several seconds to get the cargo scanner result back and read it. Set yourself up properly (and obviously not try for massive volumes in expanded ships) and you can easily be gone before they know it was worth shooting. Clearly the key to this plan is NOT to use the autopilot, and minimise your mass and inertia to ensure you warp as fast as possible. Remember, you'll be using warp to zero, so ship velocity is not important, only your time to get into warp.
The blockade runner (as you might expect) is a great ship for this, as it has a good combination of agility and cargo space. The +2 warp strength, and generally good HP level also helps if things don't go entirely to plan.
Obviously the main disadvantage of this approach is that if you get bumped or obstructed, you're going to be a sitting duck. Also, if the gankers have scouts 1 jump out from the gank camp, they can scan you with the scout and be ready to scram you when you get to the gankers.
Any one of these methods alone will reduce the chance of getting ganked considerably. If you're really looking for safety, I'd suggest a combination of methods. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 12:12:00 -
[16]
I would suggest buying a bustard.
|
Matthew
Caldari BloodStar Technologies
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 12:28:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Yao Shiu however, if your stuff is in a secure can, will it be in a locked secure can when you pop? that'd be the gankers couldnt get at your loot, right?
or would they scoop the whole can, and then reprocess the whole thing?
They'll be able to scoop the whole can. Secure cans are only secure in space when you anchor them. If they just pop out of your blown up ship they are unanchored, and the loot scooper will just pick up the whole thing and empty it back in the station.
Originally by: Shanur Finally, i wish there was an option to hire escorts to take on suicide campers, but unfortunately the mechanics of high sec make it impossible for an armed escort to guarantee the safety of the ship they are hired to protect (i don't consider a backup hauler a valid alternative. a lot of the cargo will have been blasted to bits which is exactly what you paid the escorts for to avoid). High sec hauling will therefore always remain a solo effort, and the trick to preventing suicide ganking will continue to be based on evasion rather than force of arms.
Well, the thing with armed escorts are that there's no way for CONCORD to see into the future and allow you to attack first, and once the shooting starts CONCORD lay down so much fire that the contribution from your own weapons becomes negligable. So that rules out the offensive escort.
A defensive escort is also of limited usefulness simply because of the nature of the gank. In low-sec a defensive escort would lead to the opposition bringing a gank squad anyway, the only difference is that in high-sec they need the gank squad anyway because of CONCORD.
However, I disagree that this means hauling remains a solo occupation. There's no reason why those escorts can't "escort" you in haulers instead of combat ships. Split the load between you and you can make it so that no individual ship in the convoy is worth suiciding. There are many more ways to work together than just all shooting the same target. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Lielu Lee
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 12:55:00 -
[18]
guys, thanks for all the replies.
I hope this thread will be helpful to many people in hi sec space on how to survive with valuable cargo on board.
If you have more propositions, please feel free to post them here
|
oniplE
NED-Clan R i s e
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 13:05:00 -
[19]
How about that Align+MWD+Cloak+Decloak = instant warp "trick"? Im not much of a hauler, but that should get you out of some tricky situations right?
|
Captian Internet
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 13:06:00 -
[20]
Don't undock
/thread Local Thread 107-b,War without a victor penalties,Navigation Shortcuts |
|
hedfunk
Caldari High Sec Liberators
|
Posted - 2007.09.06 13:52:00 -
[21]
Fly afk and untanked. Always, we...I mean they wont expect that.
However, use common sense, it's not hard, seriously.
And just to clarify, you can see what is in a secure container when you scan, it just doesn't tell you that it's in one.
And once you've blown thier ship and the can drops, you canopen it up. Passworded or not.
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |