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Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
566
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 13:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
For those that are cheering on CCPs nuking of the Drake from orbit (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them) Do you seriously think that ships like the Tengu will be spared?
Under this new return to the Incarna mindset in my opinion. It is not about fixing lower tier or higher class craft so they actually get used in fleet battles. It is about nuking anything that is actually useable for a solo pilot or small group. The Tengu will coming if you sit back and let this Drake nerf go on without protest.
This is a "misery loves company" approach and should be protested against. Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly. |
Cannibal Kane
Count With Teddy Mercenaries
192
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 13:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:For those that are cheering on CCPs nuking of the Drake from orbit (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them) Do you seriously think that ships like the Tengu will be spared?
Under this new return to the Incarna mindset in my opinion. It is not about fixing lower tier or higher class craft so they actually get used in fleet battles. It is about nuking anything that is actually useable for a solo pilot or small group. The Tengu will coming if you sit back and let this Drake nerf go on without protest.
This is a "misery loves company" approach and should be protested against. Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly.
You're a moron...
That is all that needs to be said. "Demoralize the Enemy from within by Surprise, Terror, Sabotage, Assassination. This method of Guarilla Warfare is the only Method of Warfare for me"
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Ursula LeGuinn
65
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Posted - 2012.01.18 13:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:Your a moron...
I love it when people do this. "The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community."-áGÇö-áEVElopedia |
Max Von Sydow
Droneboat Diplomacy
165
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 13:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
NERF? I'd almost call that a buff. |
Cannibal Kane
Count With Teddy Mercenaries
192
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 13:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ursula LeGuinn wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:Your a moron... I love it when people do this.
Me too... especially when i forgot the ' and the "e" "Demoralize the Enemy from within by Surprise, Terror, Sabotage, Assassination. This method of Guarilla Warfare is the only Method of Warfare for me"
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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1200
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 13:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
HAM drake shooting 30 k with rage and dealing explosive damage against regressive imperialists checking in.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
566
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 13:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Max Von Sydow wrote:NERF? I'd almost call that a buff.
Without the tank the drake is useless. A bit of extra range wont help when your expensive BC hull is instapopped by a small alpha fleet. Mise well fly a BS cruiser to get through the CTA and then go puke in some belt in frustration while an alliance leader counts this months moon goo production. |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 14:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
You mad?
Let me guess ... Drakes and Tengus is what you fly. And that is how you like it. |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
567
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 14:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:You mad?
Let me guess ... Drakes and Tengus is what you fly. And that is how you like it.
I have not trained to fly a Tengu. Training that would mean months of training before I even purchased the hull itself. Because I don't halfass my training.
If you see a Drake owning you somewhere solo it is because the pilot spent a good chuck of a year training for it. Yet people will have you think they are the next best thing from a carrier or titan.
Yet there are many Tengu pilots out there mistakenly drolling over increased LP prices not realizing that the excuse to nerf the Drake is even easier with them. |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
484
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 14:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Your playing EVE, everything gets nerfed in EVE eventually...
Especially now that TomB has rejoined the Reykjavik office, I bet he is denerfing his nerfbat as we speak... - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
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Tore Vest
Vikinghall
135
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 14:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP are good at nerfing..... |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
568
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 14:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ciar Meara wrote:Your playing EVE, everything gets nerfed in EVE eventually...
Especially now that TomB has rejoined the Reykjavik office, I bet he is denerfing his nerfbat as we speak...
They get nerfed when fools don't speak up about it and go on pretending it won't happen. I am protesting and asking for it not to happen. |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
82
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 14:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Your argument is that its a nerf, its not. shield hp didn't get talked about, nor did mid slots. all that was discussed was 5%resit 5%ken damage to 5%ROF 10%velocity. so rave's and cori's are already busted? so ROF is worse than 5% to one damage type?
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Juliana Stinger
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 14:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
CSM = Blizzard |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
513
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 15:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Meh... Nerf Drake |
Kingwood
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
45
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 16:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:For those that are cheering on CCPs nuking of the Drake from orbit (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them) Do you seriously think that ships like the Tengu will be spared?
Under this new return to the Incarna mindset in my opinion. It is not about fixing lower tier or higher class craft so they actually get used in fleet battles. It is about nuking anything that is actually useable for a solo pilot or small group. The Tengu will coming if you sit back and let this Drake nerf go on without protest.
This is a "misery loves company" approach and should be protested against. Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly.
It's a change, not a nerf. If this is a troll it's a pretty good one. If it's not, you should probably take a deep breath, shut down your computer and take a long walk - you're investing far too much energy into an internet spaceship change. |
Alara IonStorm
1446
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 16:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
[Drake, Heavy] Damage Control II Co-Processor II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Large Shield Extender II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Disruptor II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile [empty high slot]
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x5
I removed the 25% Resist Bonus. It gets 80619 EHP, 450 DPS, Range past it's lock.
[Drake, HAM] Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Scrambler II X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Assault Missile Small Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x5
69933K EHP, 525 DPS, 30 KM Range.
Post buff Drake still has a pretty damn big Buffer Tank, Ok DPS and good range. With a very small fitting buff and it will be perfect. Get rid you the Canes double DPS Bonus and I might just call it Balance. =p |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
251
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 16:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:For those that are cheering on CCPs nuking of the Drake from orbit (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them) Do you seriously think that ships like the Tengu will be spared?
Under this new return to the Incarna mindset in my opinion. It is not about fixing lower tier or higher class craft so they actually get used in fleet battles. It is about nuking anything that is actually useable for a solo pilot or small group. The Tengu will coming if you sit back and let this Drake nerf go on without protest.
This is a "misery loves company" approach and should be protested against. Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly.
Between my Drake and my Tengu......a Nighthawk or Vulture are REDUNDANT options.
That Drake has been too overpowered for FIVE years at least.
Time for it to get a zap.
And I love my Drake.
And why can I do Level IV's in a freaking cruiser (Strategic) for sakes????
The game ships are indeed imbalanced and this is a much welcome change. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Caldari Citizen20090217
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 16:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tbh 5% ROF on a drake is nice. No more annoying kinetic bonus, more DPS (700dps drake @ 30km ought to be easily doable), at the cost of some resists. Drake will still have a huge buffer, just no longer BS sized. If anything, after this 'nerf' there will be more whines from people claiming HML logi/drake fleets are overpowered due to their ability to spam heavy missiles from >200km.
|
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc Thundering Herd
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 16:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
... This is a "misery loves company" approach and should be protested against. Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly.
I fly Gallente, all my ships come pre-nerfed or have already been nerfed to near uselessness. Welcome to the club ...
Nick
PS - obligatory, "you mad?" |
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Cpt Greagor
Liquid Relief
279
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 13:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:And why can I do Level IV's in a freaking cruiser (Strategic) for sakes????
Maybe because it is the most advanced ship currently in game, made from technology salvaged from ships packed with ai far more advanced than anything we currently have in game.
Just a thought. |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
155
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 13:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote: (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them)
Are you aware of the concept known as an NDA?
A legally binding non-disclosure agreement?
Something that all members of all CSM's has signed.
Is it possible that such a fact might have something do with why CCP shares their ideas with the CSM before they release those (possibly modified) ideas to the general public? |
Raneru
Euphoria Released 0ccupational Hazzard
30
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 13:44:00 -
[23] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:For those that are cheering on CCPs nuking of the Drake from orbit (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them) Do you seriously think that ships like the Tengu will be spared?
No, they are doing the Tengu next. Looks like its time for some people to diversify their ship collection
|
Cyzlaki
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
208
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 13:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
drake is getting buffed you idiot |
Rhinanna
CyberShield Inc ROMANIAN-LEGION
103
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 13:52:00 -
[25] - Quote
LOL, you realise the 'cane already had it's nerf? It used to have 8 gun slots, thats when it was OP and actually on-par with the Drake (double the dps, half the tank)
Now its 1.5 times the dps, half the tank, even with this change you won't be seeing much change in the drake vs 'cane situation. 'Cane (if the pilot is good) will normally win 1v1 but Drake will be better for fleets because of the higher difficulty in alphaing it and the ease of logi support. If anything just changing the bonuses is not a nerf at all, simply a change when the drake does need a slight nerf it's long-range fleet capabilities such as a large speed reduction or a sensor range reduction. -The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it! Other names: Drenzul (WoT, WoW, Lineage 2, WarH, BloodBowl, BSG, SC2 and lots more)-á |
Wacktopia
Noir.
145
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 14:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'm bored sick of the Drake. TBH I'm not too bothered if they nerf it. Apparently we're getting censored now. |
Roosterton
Shattered Star Exiles SpaceMonkey's Alliance
250
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 14:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
Bad for PVE, good for PVP. I like.
After putting a bit more thought in, this is actually awesome for PVE, since you can deal full DPS to any rats regardless of damage type. |
Karash Amerius
Sutoka
32
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 15:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
Good to see things getting back to normal around here with all the "sky is falling" poasts about everyone's favorite FOTM(Y). |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
321
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 15:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
Drake tears, best tears.
Also, they better nerf the friggin Tengu, along with adding a bunch of mass to all battlecruisers. Down with FotM! |
J Kunjeh
335
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 16:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
Posting in a "they nerfed my drake...whaaaaa!" thread. Oh, and posting in yet another Endeavour whine thread...don't you have Incursions to farm or something? "The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5)-á |
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Carniflex
StarHunt Broken Toys
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 16:17:00 -
[31] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly.
I am a bitter vet. I can fly it all. Something will be FOTM. |
Nyssa Litari
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
25
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 16:40:00 -
[32] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: And why can I do Level IV's in a freaking cruiser (Strategic) for sakes????
Because it is a Tech 3 cruiser that uses reverse engineered Sleeper technology. A Jovian frigate could solo Level V missions. It may be the case that the training times are too low for Tech 3. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
514
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 16:54:00 -
[33] - Quote
This is a buff, not a nerf. 25% resists (which has rediculously low effect when you have high resists) will not be the end of the world.
By my (and other's) estimates in EFT and from experience, you will still be able to tank any level 4. Just can't make a huge mistake and still be fine. |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
602
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 21:52:00 -
[34] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote: (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them)
Are you aware of the concept known as an NDA? A legally binding non-disclosure agreement? Something that all members of all CSM's has signed. Is it possible that such a fact might have something do with why CCP shares their ideas with the CSM before they release those (possibly modified) ideas to the general public?
What does the NDA have to do with drake nerfs? This isn't a new graphical engine or new plans for team goals. There is no reason that should be an NDA topic. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
321
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 21:55:00 -
[35] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote: What does the NDA have to do with drake nerfs? This isn't a new graphical engine or new plans for team goals. There is no reason that should be an NDA topic.
Usually NDAs cover any material "exclusively available to privileged eyes only" and you are only allowed to squawk about it if the subject is explicitly public/non-restricted. To prevent crazy market explosions, the final changes are probably going to be secret until they hit SiSi. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
5180
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 21:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
I look forward to the changes, CCP are going to make.
Also great thread, would read again.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Spineker
101
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 22:00:00 -
[37] - Quote
Lazors and Autos are going to one shot it now because those two groups with there over powered ships whine like little girls.
Bunch pussies crying when they get wooped by a BC and can't one shot it. Now they can just whack it in a shot with their unbalanced ships and weapon systems. GOOD ******* JOB CCP |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
156
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 22:02:00 -
[38] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote: What does the NDA have to do with drake nerfs? This isn't a new graphical engine or new plans for team goals. There is no reason that should be an NDA topic.
Usually NDAs cover any material "exclusively available to privileged eyes only" and you are only allowed to squawk about it if the subject is explicitly public/non-restricted. To prevent crazy market explosions, the final changes are probably going to be secret until they hit SiSi.
^^This is logical. You do realise that that sort of thing has no place in threads like this, right?
(And just so we're clear where I stand on this, see my sig., and my post in this thread-naught, post #345.)
NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
321
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 22:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote: What does the NDA have to do with drake nerfs? This isn't a new graphical engine or new plans for team goals. There is no reason that should be an NDA topic.
Usually NDAs cover any material "exclusively available to privileged eyes only" and you are only allowed to squawk about it if the subject is explicitly public/non-restricted. To prevent crazy market explosions, the final changes are probably going to be secret until they hit SiSi. ^^This is logical. You do realise that that sort of thing has no place in threads like this, right?
Oh ****, I forgot this is GD. *ahem*
LOL DReak noob tears cry more becasue your win butan ship was nerfd. NDA doesnt matter at all becos Mitani is in goons and he tells them everything so goonswarm can conquer all of eve and create A GIANT NULLSEC RMTING NAPFEST. WAKE UP SHEEPLE |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
109
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 22:08:00 -
[40] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:For those that are cheering on CCPs nuking of the Drake from orbit (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them) Do you seriously think that ships like the Tengu will be spared? I do hope it will not 2008, CCP Zulu(park): "command ships are fine as is" 2011, CCP Greyscale: "is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?" Nice progress, guys. |
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Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 22:16:00 -
[41] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:This is a "misery loves company" approach and should be protested against. Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly. if you wnt balance you have the choice between "misery loves company" and stat inflation. I prefer the former. |
Atticus Lowa
Lowa Corp Industries and Security
5
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 22:23:00 -
[42] - Quote
so they are planning on removing damage resit for speed? that sounds more like a buff, its actually HARDER to make a ship faster than to buff its dmg resits.
and for the tengu to be nerfed would mean other SCs be nerfed too, plus the big reason its a mess, the SC is inherintly too powerful, each subsystem GIVES boni to the ship for its skill, this means a SC gets 6 skill-based buffs...
the only option if there such an issue is to get rid of them entirely, in other words the SC cannot be nerfed to a point where its no longer "OP" its DESGINED to be OP, if anything id ask for strategic frigates or strategic battleships, THAT would be a mess...
still, some nerfs are needed, but somehow doesn't this open a wound? caldari ships kinda suck outside of the drake and tengu, theyd have to revist caldari ships or risk angering the MAJORITY of eve players, still even i plan to use mammoths indies, and mining barges/exhumers are technically gallente so..... |
Lili Lu
140
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 22:25:00 -
[43] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:For those that are cheering on CCPs nuking of the Drake from orbit (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them) Do you seriously think that ships like the Tengu will be spared? I do hope it will not One nerf that was mentioned about a year ago is an overall reduction in HM range. This could be why the new Drake was hinted at having a velocity bonus. It may end up with about the same range on HM but the velocity bonus would benefit HAM fits. Similarly a HM range reduction (probably in flight time, as then it would not further delay damage) will impact one of the things that makes Tengus proliferate - their range.
Other than that, it appears CCP is concerned about tech III cruisers obsoleting HACs and Command ships. The link subsystems appear to be headed for alteration, and Commands getting a buff. Not sure if there is any plan to nerf combat subsystems to restore HACs or if HACs will be getting a buff. I would rather the latter. A buff to HACs would be nice to give them a leg up on tier 3 BCs, as it is not only tier 2 BCs and tech III cruisers that impact the utility of HACs.
edit- and yes with a buff to cruisers and frigs in general for all races this will benefit everyone hopefully and Caldari will nto be stuck thinking Drake, Tengu, ECM boat or nothing (not that I agree it has ever been that way anyway).
2nd edit - Endeavor, patience is what this game is about. Train some. Noone posting on threads atm other than Devs and maybe CSM (under an NDA) know what is coming. Really, learn to love rebalancing. If you still hate it after it hits the test server that would be the appropriate time to post that the sky is falling (whether objectively it will be or not). Oh and train a second race for some perspective on the game as a whole. |
Hanoch Wheel
Free Wheeling Industries
20
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 22:35:00 -
[44] - Quote
Atticus Lowa wrote:so they are planning on removing damage resit for speed? that sounds more like a buff, its actually HARDER to make a ship faster than to buff its dmg resits. and for the tengu to be nerfed would mean other SCs be nerfed too, plus the big reason its a mess, the SC is inherintly too powerful, each subsystem GIVES boni to the ship for its skill, this means a SC gets 6 skill-based buffs... the only option if there such an issue is to get rid of them entirely, in other words the SC cannot be nerfed to a point where its no longer "OP" its DESGINED to be OP, if anything id ask for strategic frigates or strategic battleships, THAT would be a mess... still, some nerfs are needed, but somehow doesn't this open a wound? caldari ships kinda suck outside of the drake and tengu, theyd have to revist caldari ships or risk angering the MAJORITY of eve players, still even i plan to use mammoths indies, and mining barges/exhumers are technically gallente so.....
Proposed change is to remove Shield and Kinetic damage bonuses and add bonuses to Rate of Fire and Missile Speed, not ship speed.
It is arguably a buff not a nerf, but the refocusing would seem to be unneeded and cause all the drake pilots to have to figure out how to fight with their ship again. It also makes the Drake more like the Caracal which is not a terribly successful ship. Since their stated reasoning is clearly to nerf, I think the fear is that it won't stop there.
Not touching the Tengu part of your post.
I think the days of wandering around with a nerf bat playing wack-a-mole with the playerbase should probably end. Sure sometimes a nerf may need to happen, but it inevitably alienates players. Not something CCP needs right now, so IMHO that option should be held to a last resort.
I think balance via measured and small buffs to other ships over time is the answer. |
Conrad Makbure
Division One Security
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 22:39:00 -
[45] - Quote
Nick Bison wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
... This is a "misery loves company" approach and should be protested against. Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly.
I fly Gallente, all my ships come pre-nerfed or have already been nerfed to near uselessness. Welcome to the club ... Nick PS - obligatory, "you mad?"
This. I'm looking at other empire faction ships now because it's just stupid how weak Gallente is compared to other empire factions. I fly a Hyperion fit for lev 4's and I'm about 6 days away from flying an Abaddon, empty. Probably time to go holy. |
Hanoch Wheel
Free Wheeling Industries
20
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 22:48:00 -
[46] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:This is a "misery loves company" approach and should be protested against. Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly. if you wnt balance you have the choice between "misery loves company" and stat inflation. I prefer the former.
That's very EVE of you. I'd say the latter is a more winning strategy.
As much as I recognize the value of schadenfreude in this environment, I think the nerf bat needs to be reserved for cases where it absolutely must be used.
What you call "stat inflation", I would call progress. In a far future simulation with a wartime economy our ships should be getting better over time.
From an in game perspective CCP has a need to make the player base happy with there own game play situation (therefore retaining players and better word of mouth for getting more) and stop pissing people off. Measured buffs on lesser used ships are far more useful than just picking the most used and messing with it until is no longer as popular.
So for the sake of a better simulation, a more enthusiastic playerbase, and more cash... CCP, stop messing with whats not broken and fix what is. |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
109
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 23:52:00 -
[47] - Quote
Lili Lu wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:For those that are cheering on CCPs nuking of the Drake from orbit (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them) Do you seriously think that ships like the Tengu will be spared? I do hope it will not One nerf that was mentioned about a year ago is an overall reduction in HM range. This could be why the new Drake was hinted at having a velocity bonus. As a missile user I think range reduction is a huge buff since it will make the game much more interesting and players would have to actually make some trade-offs in their setups. Missile velocity rigs will become useful! That's awesome. Pre-fitted ships are boring.
At the moment there's just too much long-range weapons around. I hope TE fix fill follow as well. 2008, CCP Zulu(park): "command ships are fine as is" 2011, CCP Greyscale: "is the Nighthawk actually underpowered?" Nice progress, guys. |
Xolve
Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League
711
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 23:53:00 -
[48] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Max Von Sydow wrote:NERF? I'd almost call that a buff. Without the tank the drake is useless. A bit of extra range wont help when your expensive BC hull is instapopped by a small alpha fleet. Mise well fly a BS cruiser to get through the CTA and then go puke in some belt in frustration while an alliance leader counts this months moon goo production.
Confirming 25m is expensive now.
Excuse me while I laugh myself out of my chair.
I do love when pubbies speak of moon goo and CTAs, and call drakes expensive ships... Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
156
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 05:28:00 -
[49] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Max Von Sydow wrote:NERF? I'd almost call that a buff. Without the tank the drake is useless. A bit of extra range wont help when your expensive BC hull is instapopped by a small alpha fleet. Mise well fly a BS cruiser to get through the CTA and then go puke in some belt in frustration while an alliance leader counts this months moon goo production. Confirming 25m is expensive now. Excuse me while I laugh myself out of my chair. I do love when pubbies speak of moon goo and CTAs, and call drakes expensive ships...
Going by the classic definition of that gratingly stupid word, you're as much a pubbie as those you're trying to insult, pubbie.
So why don't you just like, close that second ******* in your face? Pubbie.
NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
5180
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 14:00:00 -
[50] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:Xolve wrote:Confirming 25m is expensive now. Excuse me while I laugh myself out of my chair. I do love when pubbies speak of moon goo and CTAs, and call drakes expensive ships... Going by the classic definition of that gratingly stupid word, you're as much a pubbie as those you're trying to insult, pubbie. So why don't you just like, close that second ******* in your face? Pubbie. You really burned him with that post, I'm not sure he'll ever recover tbh.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
|
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1606
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 14:07:00 -
[51] - Quote
the issue isn't the drake, it's the fact that it overshadows literally every other missile platform in the game short of the Tengu
buff the nighthawk, make the Cerberus relevant again and round out the Tengu so that it doesn't make literally every missile ship irrelevant
done! |
Xolve
Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League
715
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 14:56:00 -
[52] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:Going by the classic definition of that gratingly stupid word, you're as much a pubbie as those you're trying to insult, pubbie.
So why don't you just like, close that second ******* in your face? Pubbie.
Going by the classic definition, yes I am a member on the SomethingAwful Forums, therefore your argument is invalid.
Have a nice day!
Pubbie. Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
291
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 15:11:00 -
[53] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:For those that are cheering on CCPs nuking of the Drake from orbit (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them) Do you seriously think that ships like the Tengu will be spared?
Under this new return to the Incarna mindset in my opinion. It is not about fixing lower tier or higher class craft so they actually get used in fleet battles. It is about nuking anything that is actually useable for a solo pilot or small group. The Tengu will coming if you sit back and let this Drake nerf go on without protest.
This is a "misery loves company" approach and should be protested against. Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly. Between my Drake and my Tengu......a Nighthawk or Vulture are REDUNDANT options. That Drake has been too overpowered for FIVE years at least. Time for it to get a zap. And I love my Drake. And why can I do Level IV's in a freaking cruiser (Strategic) for sakes???? The game ships are indeed imbalanced and this is a much welcome change.
Instead of nerfing though, why don't they buff? The Nighthawk and its t2 brethren should stand head and shoulders above their t1 variants, and yet they really don't in some cases. It really doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me to leave what is broke still broken, and instead look somewhere else for the problem. Don't get me wrong, I am interested to see how the new bonuses would play out. It just seems like CCP doesn't have a clue how to fix the things that need fixing and instead give us something else totally unrelated in order to placate us. In the grand scheme of things, the Drake is pretty far down on that list. If you bring down a giant, you're a hero. If you kill something weak-even if it has to die-then you will endure contempt. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1289
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 15:13:00 -
[54] - Quote
just fix cruise missiles .. and be done with it ..
who need 270km range
dont mind me. |
Berendas
Clandestine Vector THE SPACE P0LICE
176
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 15:55:00 -
[55] - Quote
Why should the Tengu be spared? It's just as overpowered as the Drake is. *Points at the alliance tournaments*
[Queue Caldari pilots' victim complex] |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
107
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 16:04:00 -
[56] - Quote
Oh my, I'm getting flashbacks.
One of the most dumbest arguments (and yet very often repeated) against the nanonerf years ago was that it was an intended nerf to small gang PVP.
The nanonerf didn't have anything to do with balance, the fact that afterburners were completely useless, the fact that web/MWD was mandatory, or the fact that some ships were simply uncatchable...it was because CCP just really hates small gangs.
...It was a stupid argument then and it's a stupid argument now. Yes, things that are overpowered also happen to be overpowered in small groups or solo. The drake's features which lead people to think it is overpowered apply equally well to solo/small gang and to fleets - it's not like drake blobs are unheard of in 0.0. |
Skydell
Space Mermaids
112
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 16:07:00 -
[57] - Quote
This isn't the first time they nerfed in EVE. Hell it isn't the first time they nerfed Drake. Missle nerf was a Drake Nerf. People think the Drake is OP'ed now, you should have seen them before the nano nerf.
What makes me question these things is the focus on the ships. Has EVE truly been reduced to ship bonus? Nothing is being "fixed" if your answer is to tweak a few ship bonuses. That just tells me they ran out of ideas. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1114
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 16:19:00 -
[58] - Quote
Under this goon/testie supported CSM, the Eve Online sandbox is slowly turning into a 0.0 napfest swarm alliance favored, no-PvE sandfort box game focused on 1 thing only.
Sub cap PvP in blobs with Caldari being the new minmatar, while caps and supers are reduced to useless doorstops.
This drake nerf is only the tip of the ice berg. Watch this space. |
Xolve
Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League
716
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 16:21:00 -
[59] - Quote
Berendas wrote:Why should the Tengu be spared? It's just as overpowered as the Drake is. *Points at the alliance tournaments*
[Queue Caldari pilots' victim complex]
In all fairness.. a Tengu plus Subsystems costs about 20-25 times what a drake does (and that is not factoring in mods..). So yeah in that price range I would expect it to perform on a much greater wavelength then a 20m isk battlecruiser. Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Skydell
Space Mermaids
112
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 16:24:00 -
[60] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Under this goon/testie supported CSM, the Eve Online sandbox is slowly turning into a 0.0 napfest swarm alliance favored, no-PvE sandfort box game focused on 1 thing only.
Sub cap PvP in blobs with Caldari being the new minmatar, while caps and supers are reduced to useless doorstops.
This drake nerf is only the tip of the ice berg. Watch this space.
Goons? They died years ago, sold the name to a bunch of internet lawyers and politicians.
They are part of the problem, a big part.
EVE has no balls anymore.
|
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1608
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 16:35:00 -
[61] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:Under this goon/testie supported CSM, the Eve Online sandbox is slowly turning into a 0.0 napfest swarm alliance favored, no-PvE sandfort box game focused on 1 thing only.
Sub cap PvP in blobs with Caldari being the new minmatar, while caps and supers are reduced to useless doorstops.
This drake nerf is only the tip of the ice berg. Watch this space.
yep
nah you're right you're definitely not a ******** aspie at all |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
146
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 16:36:00 -
[62] - Quote
Ursula LeGuinn wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:Your a moron... I love it when people do this.
He just ran statistics on that poster last 100 threads. |
Jerick Ludhowe
The Green Cross Controlled Chaos
41
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 16:36:00 -
[63] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Lili Lu wrote:Fon Revedhort wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:For those that are cheering on CCPs nuking of the Drake from orbit (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them) Do you seriously think that ships like the Tengu will be spared? I do hope it will not One nerf that was mentioned about a year ago is an overall reduction in HM range. This could be why the new Drake was hinted at having a velocity bonus. As a missile user I think range reduction is a huge buff since it alone will make the game much more interesting, plus players would have to actually make some trade-offs in their setups. Missile velocity rigs will become useful! That's awesome. Pre-fitted ships are boring. At the moment there's just too much long-range weapons around. I hope TE fix fill follow as well.
Fon can you do me a huge favor and please stop being reasonable?
On a more serious note... Balance in this game is pretty god awful and it always has been... With any luck ccp is using a bit more of their work force to do some general research on what works and what does not in the game.
The drake "change" is a good start however I do not see this as a direct nerf sadly. The dps/ehp ratio may have shrunk when using kinetic missiles but when using any other type of missile it has actually improved, so has the ability for it to apply dmg through faster flight time (buff to fleet work). With any luck ccp will continue to address the trivializing nature of some of the op pve/pvp ships and I would keep my eye on the tengu as it will probably be the next target on the balancing teams list....
The other major issue I see as far as balance is concerned is Command Ships, both fleet and field. Now I've been rather vocal about this specific issue in multiple other threads so I'll save you all the "deets"... Essentially Fleet Commands need the 5% bonus instead of t3 and Field Commands need a rather serious looking at, specifically at their performance through fitting and slots compared to tier 2 BCs. Prime example is NH vs Drake.... Drake has 1 more slot and 1 more rig for 1/8 the cost.... Pretty obvious someone ****** up when balancing these ships...
|
ShardowRhino
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 16:36:00 -
[64] - Quote
When the hell did the drake become a FOTM and solo pwnmobile that needed to be changed? Was it when all the gate camping battles got moved into an arena where both sides start out at 200+km from each other and the speeds on mwd were nerfed?
The only reason to use a drake was due to its durability, the dps never hit anything considered respectable when compared to those races of ships that were really designed for pvp.
For those that want to talk about doing L4s in a drake, against or for it, thats what ravens are for. The frak does anyone want to do L4s in a drake for other then to say that it is theoretically possible, yet so freaking inefficient that it would be easier to make isk doing L3s instead.
Someone posted an almost 20k effective hps difference for a slight bump in dps and that is somehow considered good? At least good enough to flame those that think the hit to the hp is not justified by the slight bump in damage.
I'm gone for 8 months and I see a thread about nerfing the useless pvp drake so that it cannot do even its half baked job right anymore. Makes me wonder about this game....then again..it is eve. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
146
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 16:46:00 -
[65] - Quote
Hanoch Wheel wrote: What you call "stat inflation", I would call progress. In a far future simulation with a wartime economy our ships should be getting better over time.
This is a mistake I read on the forums of other MMOs too, almost every day.
MMOs are NOT based on progress and CANNOT simulate progress either.
In RL the faction / groups that begins to win more than others, creates a gap that makes them win more and more often till they technically "win" and the war is over. You cannot do that in a MMO, it has to last years with no apparent winner otherwise everyone jump on the winning ship and the game (if PvP based) tanks.
Just look at those atrocious 2 faction based MMOs (Warhammer / SW:Tor come to mind), where factions get totally imbalanced because everyone rerolls to the "FOTM", in some cases whole servers die because after everyone jumped faction, there's no one left to kill therefore the winners get bored (they won!) and quits.
In EvE it's not so nasty but see how FW "cycles", see how people want to re-train Amarr (and lately Minmatar). It imbalances the game.
Also, other games like WoW come with the so called "gear reset". That is once a year or two, expansions are created and everyone's progress get reset to zero with the excuse of new levels being added. EvE does not have that, EvE global progress is static and cannot be reset. Else whole classes of ships immediately become useless (see the cruisers).
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Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
157
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 17:19:00 -
[66] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:Going by the classic definition of that gratingly stupid word, you're as much a pubbie as those you're trying to insult, pubbie.
So why don't you just like, close that second ******* in your face? Pubbie.
Going by the classic definition, yes I am a member on the SomethingAwful Forums, therefore your argument is invalid. Have a nice day! Pubbie.
Ah, so in other words, you're just another generic Internet a-hole who thinks it matters. Right then, gotcha.
Prat.
NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Jovan Geldon
SniggWaffe EVE Corporation 123566322353
287
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 17:20:00 -
[67] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:They won't stop at nerfing the Drake...
GOOD |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
157
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 17:29:00 -
[68] - Quote
Jovan Geldon wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:They won't stop at nerfing the Drake... GOOD
Because nerfing everything into bland, generic uselessness is so much easier than fixing what's broken amirite?
Hey, I know! Let's fix the Nighthawk! And we can do that by...nerfing a completely different ship.
Now this...this is the sheer brilliance I've come to expect from CCP. They'd hit a bump in the road with Crucible--gotta throw those pissed off paying subscribers a token bone eventually--but now, back to business as usual, it would seem. NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Xolve
Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League
718
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 18:31:00 -
[69] - Quote
Lyrrashae
Because nerfing everything into bland, generic uselessness is so much easier than fixing what's broken amirite?
Hey, I know! Let's fix the Nighthawk! And we can do that by...[i wrote:nerfing a completely different ship. [/i] Now this...this is the sheer MENSA-calibre brilliance I've come to expect from CCP. They'd hit a bump in the road with Crucible--gotta throw those pissed off paying subscribers a token bone eventually--but now, back to business as usual, it would seem.
Next-up, the return of the....errrm...new and improved (and NEx-only, 'natch)...Gold Scorpion?
E: Now with extra sarcasm and cynicism.
The rage is strong within this one. Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Sarpadeon
Rebirth Industries
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 18:41:00 -
[70] - Quote
Please nerf it as proposed to ROF/missile speed
HAM Drake GO!
fyi [Drake, HAM post change]
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Hellfire Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Hellfire Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Hellfire Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Hellfire Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Hellfire Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Hellfire Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Hellfire Assault Missile [Empty High slot]
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II Large Shield Extender II X5 Prototype Engine Enervator Warp Scrambler II
Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
5x Warrior II
"Squire" PG3
63k omni EHP, 54k vs weakest resist(thermal) 633/730 dps normal/OH Faction, 27km range 697/808 dps normal/OH Rage, 25km range 1038ms/1470ms MWD 71% cap stable with MWD off, 4m40s with MWD on
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Hungry Eyes
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
349
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 18:51:00 -
[71] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:
You're a moron...
That is all that needs to be said.
this, and Tengu is the most OP ship in the game. facerolling 700dps from 60km+ with ridiculous EHP, and sig/speed tank via the 100mn AB. Cynabal is close behind.
so if the Drake is getting nerfed, they better bring the Tengu down as well. |
Shad0wsFury
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
49
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 18:56:00 -
[72] - Quote
Losing the kinetic bonus and getting a ROF bonus is maybe worth losing the resist bonus, especially for PvP.
It's going to make drake fleets harder to counter because you truly have to omni-tank instead of cheating and fitting kinetic hardeners. Shield resists are also something you can increase with fittings, where there is no mod allowing you to do more damage with un-bonused missile types.
And to think the tengu, or any other ship mentioned in this thread is going to get nerfed too is just ridiculous. Tengus cost close to 500m or more when fully fitted out, compared to a 50m drake. They should and do have far more ability than a drake does. Same goes for the Nighthawk and Vulture. |
Mussaschi
No Wise Guy's Stellar Economy Experts
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 19:31:00 -
[73] - Quote
We had a 1st class pve (specially for low and wh) ship and a 3rd class pvp ship.
Now we get a 2nd class pve ship and a 2nd class pvp ship.
Well done CCP |
Jerick Ludhowe
The Green Cross Controlled Chaos
42
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 20:11:00 -
[74] - Quote
Hungry Eyes wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:
You're a moron...
That is all that needs to be said.
this, and Tengu is the most OP ship in the game. facerolling 700dps from 60km+ with ridiculous EHP, and sig/speed tank via the 100mn AB. Cynabal is close behind. so if the Drake is getting nerfed, they better bring the Tengu down as well.
Problem has more to do with fitting over sized prop mods and less the tengu being broke, although it still is.
Removing over sized prop mods would solve allot of issues imho.
|
Hicksimus
Xion Limited
89
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 20:45:00 -
[75] - Quote
This one time I was shooting a drake with my armor fit astarte when I realized it had 40k more ehp, a passive tank I could not break, a higher top speed,15x my range with no tracking worries and that without my ecm drones I would certainly have lost my ship. I'll admit I had roughly double the DPS but a 30m hull should not be better in almost every way than a 190m hull. I could have been in a sleipner and the situation would have still ended with me running away from the damn thing because of its tank.
Stop moaning about your cheap battlecruiser receiving a small setback. It is supremely overpowered, it even has light drones to eat frigates. After the buff(imo) it will simply tank a bit less to stop you from drooling on yourself while spamming F1. Things I have realized from the EvE forums: Many people beleive cost means money and only money |
Rastigan
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 22:29:00 -
[76] - Quote
ShardowRhino wrote:When the hell did the drake become a FOTM and solo pwnmobile that needed to be changed? Was it when all the gate camping battles got moved into an arena where both sides start out at 200+km from each other and the speeds on mwd were nerfed?
Ironically enough the Hurricane is the BC that tops the PvP charts.
This will also encourage crazy fits like armor tanked x5 tracking disruptor / remote sensor dampener support Drakes...
For PVE not sure if its too bad either since Drakes will be able to kite at 120km
Of course now the Drake will be even closer DPS-wise to the Nighthawk which is a little sad..
To the guy above me, its very easy to beat any Drake 1 on 1 now, just be able to Tank 400 kinetic dps and you are golden.. Any dual MAR Blaster Astarte would have done it... |
Shenra Twrin
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 23:20:00 -
[77] - Quote
Mussaschi wrote:We had a 1st class pve (specially for low and wh) ship and a 3rd class pvp ship.
Now we get a 2nd class pve ship and a 2nd class pvp ship.
Well done CCP
hahahahah oh god my side hahahahahahahahah
whats a nice one 1st class pve ship and drake in one sentence hahahahahah
also wtf drake good for WH farming :D ? loool only a carebear can say that do you know what ewar is ? |
Lili Lu
142
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 23:36:00 -
[78] - Quote
Rastigan wrote:Ironically enough the Hurricane is the BC that tops the PvP charts. No, it's still the Drake http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20
Rastigan wrote:This will also encourage crazy fits like armor tanked x5 tracking disruptor / remote sensor dampener support Drakes... Are you so certain?
Rastigan wrote:For PVE not sure if its too bad either since Drakes will be able to kite at 120km Heavy missiles may be getting a range nerf at the same time, soz we'll have to wait and see.
Rastigan wrote:Of course now the Drake will be even closer DPS-wise to the Nighthawk which is a little sad.. Again, remains to be seen. Commands in general appear to be going to receive some buffs
Rastigan wrote:To the guy above me, its very easy to beat any Drake 1 on 1 now, just be able to Tank 400 kinetic dps and you are golden.. Any dual MAR Blaster Astarte would have done it... OK, set up another BC to tank a Drake but then no where near enough dps to overcome the Drakes regen. Set a ship up to deal enouigh damage to break the Drake regen, and you won't have enough tank to not be the first to pop. Regardless, we are talking a tech II combat BC v a tech I BC.
Maybe after the upcoming balance changes the sp and isk investment will matter. I would like to see overall BC shield regen nerfed some. It's been out of balance for a long time. Part of the problem with Drakes. Looking forward to see what hits the test server. However, we probably won't get the kind of harsh nerfs that Gallente ships got with the Myrm and damp nerfs. It seems every time CCP goes to nerf a Caldari ship they simultaneously buff it in another way. Happened with ECM boats multiple times now. Never saw a rebuff for Minmatar recons with the web nerf, nor with Gallente for the damp nerf. One of the benfits of being the majority population in EVE I guess. So, don't worry though Drake addicts. |
Rastigan
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 02:03:00 -
[79] - Quote
Those kills also count pos modules (I really dont see Maelstroms terrorizing in a solo/small gang role) and yes (the Drake), is the go to fleet ship because of cost / sp reasons.
They already nerfed BC shield regen, they shouldnt do a blanket overnerf just because players dont know how to fit their ships.
And like any ship, you have to choose between speed/tackle/dps/and tank, its not like you can have 500 dps / a 700 dps tank while having double webs and a scram. |
Lili Lu
143
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 02:34:00 -
[80] - Quote
Rastigan wrote:They already nerfed BC shield regen, they shouldnt do a blanket overnerf just because players dont know how to fit their ships. The Cruiser with the most shield hp is the Moa iirc, with 1875 hp. BS shield hp ranges from a geddon's 5489 to a Rokh's 8500. The Drake has the most shield hp of BCs, at gues what, 5489. So there is the Drake sitting with a BS's shield hp (so what that the geddon armor tanks and has more armor hp).
The "nerf" to regen was only from a cruiser's 1250 s to 1400 s. Meanwhile, a BS has a 2500 s regen time. The BC shield regen time is still essentially that of a Cruiser.
So combine a BS sized shield with a Cruiser shield regen and you get the stupid op BC pve passive shield regen. Yeah yeah who cares about pve blah blah blah. But it does matter because Drakes have been the quickest route to level 4s since they have a BS tank and a range abiltiy to put out just enough damage to get them done (yes there are more efficient ships, but none so cheap and easy to skill into). If you train any other race's ships as a new character you have to train BS and large weapons.
Regardless, having a BS sized shield and the resist bonus, and the ability to project that unremarkabale but sufficent damage to 70-80km is what has made the Drake essentially a BS for pvp. You don't see Harby fleets, limited range, cap worries, and armor tanking conflicting with damage mods and plates making them bricks. You don't see Myrmidon fleets, Drones don't lend themselves to sustained damage projection in fleet warfare where that dps is one bomb away from 0, not to mention the nerf the Myrm got very quickly from 125m3 all the way to 75m3 bandwidth. You do see some hurricance fleets, but the role is different, and oh yeah look at the link I posted above, not anymore near the utilation of drakes. Simply can't get the BS tank on the hurricane.
Regen (pve) and buffer (pvp) due to the numbers CCP assigned to each added to the resist bonus simply has been too good on the Drake for way too long. They gave it a BS tank. With the Hybrid buff and the new tier 3 BCs Caldari fleet ships now include the Rokh and Naga. Time for a Drake nerf finally. Been a long time coming, too long. Even so, it doesn't look like it will nerfed into the bottom rung as so many other ships have been. Nobody should be crying. The ship has lead quite a charmed life so far. |
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Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris Etherium Cartel
427
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 04:41:00 -
[81] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Max Von Sydow wrote:NERF? I'd almost call that a buff. Without the tank the drake is useless. A bit of extra range wont help when your expensive BC hull is instapopped by a small alpha fleet. Mise well fly a BS cruiser to get through the CTA and then go puke in some belt in frustration while an alliance leader counts this months moon goo production.
I disagree totally, I run ewar on my drake, since no one bothers shooting you till your buddies are dead.
The NERF is a boost for sure. Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.-áPeace out Zulu! Hope you land well! |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
162
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 22:05:00 -
[82] - Quote
Xolve wrote:
The rage is strong within this one.
The overused infantile meme-idiocy is even stronger with ^^that^^ one.
NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
5557
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 00:08:00 -
[83] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:Xolve wrote:
The rage is strong within this one.
The overused infantile meme-idiocy is even stronger with ^^that^^ one. Got a rise out of you though, so it worked quite nicely.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Gazmin VanBurin
The Tower Of Nevaurus The 99 Percent
55
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 00:19:00 -
[84] - Quote
I rather happy with this perspective change for the drake, i have never been a fan of the kinetic damamge focus when missles actualy get to normaly chose their damage type. Oh and you can still pull of a far better tank than a cain, and with 30k hams hit them while their using baradge.
U mad at theory crafting thats not even on sisi or official bro? |
Kietay Ayari
Rogue Elements.
320
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 00:32:00 -
[85] - Quote
Hungry Eyes wrote:Cannibal Kane wrote:
You're a moron...
That is all that needs to be said.
this, and Tengu is the most OP ship in the game. facerolling 700dps from 60km+ with ridiculous EHP, and sig/speed tank via the 100mn AB. Cynabal is close behind. so if the Drake is getting nerfed, they better bring the Tengu down as well.
I don't care what they do to the Drake but don't touch the Tengu! The only thing I would accept is a reduction in HML range :[ It is too pretty to be nerfed. Stop being rude please!
Also! Maybe the drake won't have its 90k EHP anymore, but no one should be wasting time doing L4 missions in them, and the ability to switch damages types just makes it better for L3 missions. So highsec missioners should be happy. As for people who solo in a drake because it has high EHP :| sorry? I dont think the difference between 70kEHP or 90k is going to make a difference if you will live or not against a blob. Plus when you do find a target to fight 1v1 you will be able to use HAMs for quicker asplosions! Ferox #1 |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1158
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 00:42:00 -
[86] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Max Von Sydow wrote:NERF? I'd almost call that a buff. Without the tank the drake is useless. A bit of extra range wont help when your expensive BC hull is instapopped by a small alpha fleet. Mise well fly a BS cruiser to get through the CTA and then go puke in some belt in frustration while an alliance leader counts this months moon goo production.
Big deal.
I speed tank my Drake and kite like a fiend anyway and I even fit drone modules because I can. So there.
By the way, you ready to join the dark side and join those anti-mom fleets? Still got your cookies I offered you last week but I have to keep them warm in my ass crack.
|
Novinya
Perkone Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 01:00:00 -
[87] - Quote
Is there a link to what the OP is talking about?
Is this fact or just speculation?
Exchanging a kinetic bonus for an ROF bonus would be a minor buff.
Exchanging shield resistance for missile velocity bonus would be a tremendous nerf.
Missile velocity bonuses are across the board useless, because missile sniping just doesn't work.
Make it an explosion velocity bonus or explosion radius bonus or something instead. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
163
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 10:44:00 -
[88] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:Xolve wrote:
The rage is strong within this one.
The overused infantile meme-idiocy is even stronger with ^^that^^ one. Got a rise out of you though, so it worked quite nicely.
So why is a lack of tolerance for infantile kid-ults with delusions of adequacy so wrong?
Maybe there's a fundamental disconnect here between the 1337 PvP!!!!111!!!oneoeneone!! crowd, and those of us who remember the days before Internet?
Hell, that seems as good a reason as any, I mean, who really even knows any more... [/cynicism] NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Slokman
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 10:46:00 -
[89] - Quote
Cannibal Kane wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:For those that are cheering on CCPs nuking of the Drake from orbit (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them) Do you seriously think that ships like the Tengu will be spared?
Under this new return to the Incarna mindset in my opinion. It is not about fixing lower tier or higher class craft so they actually get used in fleet battles. It is about nuking anything that is actually useable for a solo pilot or small group. The Tengu will coming if you sit back and let this Drake nerf go on without protest.
This is a "misery loves company" approach and should be protested against. Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly. You're a moron... That is all that needs to be said. ^^this |
Xolve
Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League
726
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 13:51:00 -
[90] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:Maybe there's a fundamental disconnect here between the 1337 PvP!!!!111!!!oneoeneone!! crowd, and those of us who remember the days before Internet?
Cool Ad Hominem Bro. Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
|
Lady Hofstedar
Nexus Confederation
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 13:52:00 -
[91] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:For those that are cheering on CCPs nuking of the Drake from orbit (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them) Do you seriously think that ships like the Tengu will be spared?
Under this new return to the Incarna mindset in my opinion. It is not about fixing lower tier or higher class craft so they actually get used in fleet battles. It is about nuking anything that is actually useable for a solo pilot or small group. The Tengu will coming if you sit back and let this Drake nerf go on without protest.
This is a "misery loves company" approach and should be protested against. Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly.
Your a moron
Bottom line is, like the Tengu, the drake/tengur t3 cruisers aer massivley OP ships capable of doing a ton fo crap solo messing the market up
**** needs to be nerfed, ur just to selfish or stupid to see that |
Ancy Denaries
Frontier Venture
134
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 14:24:00 -
[92] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Max Von Sydow wrote:NERF? I'd almost call that a buff. Without the tank the drake is useless. Excuse me what? What ship is the #1 used ship in blobfare? And you do not think it might need a slight change?
"Shoot at anything that moves. If it doesn't move, shoot it anyway, it might move later."
"Do not be too positive. The light at the end of the tunnel could be a train." - Franz Kafka |
Aphoxema G
Teraa Matar
209
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 19:18:00 -
[93] - Quote
Now I'm pissed. The description for the Drake still reads with the old bonuses and I went through the trouble to get a drake-fit Gila because I refuse to do the intelligent thing and change the way I work. Damnit CCP keeping things the way I liked them! Change "Tracking Disruptors" to "Weapon Disruptors" (to include missiles) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=61502 |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 22:34:00 -
[94] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:Maybe there's a fundamental disconnect here between the 1337 PvP!!!!111!!!oneoeneone!! crowd, and those of us who remember the days before Internet? Cool Ad Hominem Bro.
My troll-fu >>>>>> your troll-fu.
Not ad hominem, either:
Simple observation, no more, no less.
And I'm not your "Bro," mate--**** off.
NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1159
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 23:00:00 -
[95] - Quote
I have a funny feeling that this Drake nerf is in fact the Gallente buff.
|
Jack Corigan
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 23:06:00 -
[96] - Quote
The Drake is overplayed and ruins the experience of eve. The tank is seriously overpowered and way too many people hide behind it. There is a lot of other fascinating ships out there that players ignore because a drake feels like a safter option. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 23:20:00 -
[97] - Quote
Lady Hofstedar wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:For those that are cheering on CCPs nuking of the Drake from orbit (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them) Do you seriously think that ships like the Tengu will be spared?
Under this new return to the Incarna mindset in my opinion. It is not about fixing lower tier or higher class craft so they actually get used in fleet battles. It is about nuking anything that is actually useable for a solo pilot or small group. The Tengu will coming if you sit back and let this Drake nerf go on without protest.
This is a "misery loves company" approach and should be protested against. Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly. Your a moron Bottom line is, like the Tengu, the drake/tengur t3 cruisers aer massivley OP ships capable of doing a ton fo crap solo messing the market up **** needs to be nerfed, ur just to selfish or stupid to see that
No, they are not. Just because something is an example of good game-design in a game that's mostly informed by bad game-design doesn't make it overpowered.
And nerfing everything into same-ish generic blandness instead of improving what's underpowered, that's always a brilliant solution
I know! Let's fix the Nighthawk--by nerfing a completely different ship (ref.: CSM Meeting Minutes).
Oh, ******* brilliant!
E: "You're," not "your." Calling others stupid is much more convincing when you get grade 2 grammar right whilst doing so. NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
337
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 23:25:00 -
[98] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:Just because something is an example of good game-design in a game that's mostly informed by bad game-design doesn't make it overpowered.
But it makes it out of step with the whole game, and not belonging with everything else. Ships are meant to have strengths and weaknesses, which define their role in fleets. The Drake and Tengu are "overall good", and thus fulfilled too many roles. If there were more ships like the Drake/Tengu, we would see more variation of ships being flown, sure, but if they're all good at everything, that results in far more blandness than everyone flying crappy ships that are crappy at different things. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 23:36:00 -
[99] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I have a funny feeling that this Drake nerf is in fact the Gallente buff.
How is not explicitly giving Gallente ships what they need most--more base speed, close if not equal to Minmatar, and/or especially reduced penalties to same from armour-rigs/mods--going to benefit Gallente, again?
That race's ships are
STILL. TOO. *******. SLOW.
What the bloody **** does what the Drake/Cane/Tengu/whichever other ship the idiots are crying about being OP this week have to do with whole other race's ships' intrinsic, and still mostly-unaddressed, deficiencies?
**** that sucks needs fixing, not other ships that don't suck, (but are by no means "solo insta-pwn mobiles") getting nerfed because idiots who don't know how to fly/fit them got their asses handed to them by a Drake. Or a Hurricane. Or even a Tengu...(Since when should a 1.2Bn ISK ship not be powerful and versatile, especially a class that is based entirely around versatility? Tengus are not that hard to kill, by the way--a lot of the people flying them are idiots.)
What next: Rifter nerf?
"NERF IT BECAUSE I CAN'T FLY/ADAPT TO IT!! IT KEEPS BEATING ME!!! I DON'T LIKE TO EARN MY WINS, I WANT IT HANDED TO ME!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!"
For ****'s sake...
This myopic crap is almost as hathos-inducing as all the supercapital-nerf cry/troll-threads
NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
337
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 23:47:00 -
[100] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Holy mother of all ragefits.
|
|
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
744
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 23:49:00 -
[101] - Quote
If you ask me and no one ever does, time to dust off the old dominix for missions. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
5561
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 23:52:00 -
[102] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Holy mother of all ragefits. It needed more capitals tbh.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
340
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 23:53:00 -
[103] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Holy mother of all ragefits. It needed more capitals tbh. Those just feel tacky. Lyr's post feels like was full of genuine, wonderful rage. I need to start collecting these things. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
5561
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:02:00 -
[104] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Mag's wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Holy mother of all ragefits. It needed more capitals tbh. Those just feel tacky. Lyr's post feels like was full of genuine, wonderful rage. I need to start collecting these things. You have a good point there. One thing I have noticed though, Lyrr has been played like a fiddle in this thread and doesn't even realise it.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:04:00 -
[105] - Quote
For ****'s sake...
I am sick-unto-death of repeating myself to blind screaming fools...
The Drake is not even remotely over-powered.
Look up the turret-tracking formula, and plug that small-city-size sig radius into the equation, then do the same for the missile-damage formula, and understand that yes, it has a heavy shield-tank, but that it also needs to make full use thereof.
No sig-tanking here, no matter how fast you get it going!
That sig-bloat, combined with the fact that even dual-nano'ed, it's not super-fast is what balances it's raw on-paper tank. If HM/nano-Drakes were as fast as a Tengu or Hurricane, then, arguably, yes, it would be over-powered. It isn't, ergo sum, it isn't.
It's DPS is middle of the road--at best--with HMs, and you lose 30% if you switch out damage types from Kinetics, plus the delayed damage of missiles balances out it's range. Other ships can be fit to hit much, much harder, much more quickly at similar ranges (Arty-Nado, hello?), whilst being just as fast or in some cases, much faster.
HAM-Drake: He must fight in scram/web/neut range, again loses DPS from switching damage types, and no sig/speed tank in that configuration. Plus, fitting-issues/gimping (ACR Rig + Reactor Control II needed, and near-max fitting skills) if you want to fit a medium neut, which all the other BCs can do much more easily.
Try turning off EFT/Pyfa, and actually using the damned ship before you scream for it to be nerfed.
For ****'s sake... NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:06:00 -
[106] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Holy mother of all ragefits. It needed more capitals tbh.
Reading comprehension, and sarcasm-detection much?
NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:11:00 -
[107] - Quote
Jack Corigan wrote:The Drake is overplayed and ruins the experience of eve. The tank is seriously overpowered and way too many people hide behind it. There is a lot of other fascinating ships out there that players ignore because a drake feels like a safter option.
Why does this matter, even if true?
You don't like it, no-one's forcing you to fly it.
No-one's forcing you not to come up with ways to counter/beat it, either, of which there are many.
Sig-radius : tank : speed--know it, live it, love it, and use it to help you kill those Drakes you hate so much. NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
5562
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:12:00 -
[108] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:Mag's wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Holy mother of all ragefits. It needed more capitals tbh. Reading comprehension, and sarcasm-detection much? Obviously you haven't.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Xolve
Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League
742
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:13:00 -
[109] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:Jack Corigan wrote:The Drake is overplayed and ruins the experience of eve. The tank is seriously overpowered and way too many people hide behind it. There is a lot of other fascinating ships out there that players ignore because a drake feels like a safter option. Why does this matter, even if true? You don't like it, no-one's forcing you to fly it. No-one's forcing you not to come up with ways to counter/beat it, either, of which there are many. Sig-radius : tank : speed--know it, live it, love it, and use it to help you kill those Drakes you hate so much.
I think you should shoot more of your emotional pain into this thread.
Seriously. Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:18:00 -
[110] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Holy mother of all ragefits.
My ability to suffer fools atrophies more and more as I age.
E: Oh, and if other 1337-PvP'ers consider airing that as "being played," well then...It's axiomatic that humans believe what they want to believe, so have at it! NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
|
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
344
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:19:00 -
[111] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:Jack Corigan wrote:The Drake is overplayed and ruins the experience of eve. The tank is seriously overpowered and way too many people hide behind it. There is a lot of other fascinating ships out there that players ignore because a drake feels like a safter option. Why does this matter, even if true? You don't like it, no-one's forcing you to fly it. No-one's forcing you not to come up with ways to counter/beat it, either, of which there are many. Sig-radius : tank : speed--know it, live it, love it, and use it to help you kill those Drakes you hate so much. I think you should shoot more of your emotional pain into this thread. Seriously.
I found the soundtrack for this thread. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:23:00 -
[112] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Xolve wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:Jack Corigan wrote:The Drake is overplayed and ruins the experience of eve. The tank is seriously overpowered and way too many people hide behind it. There is a lot of other fascinating ships out there that players ignore because a drake feels like a safter option. Why does this matter, even if true? You don't like it, no-one's forcing you to fly it. No-one's forcing you not to come up with ways to counter/beat it, either, of which there are many. Sig-radius : tank : speed--know it, live it, love it, and use it to help you kill those Drakes you hate so much. I think you should shoot more of your emotional pain into this thread. Seriously. I found the soundtrack for this thread.
Thanks for the suggestion, mate, but I prefer things on the darker end of the spectrum, myself.
Fake-Edit: Activate bass-boost if tune-engine is so equipped, and play extremely loud!
NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
5562
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:23:00 -
[113] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Xolve wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:Why does this matter, even if true?
You don't like it, no-one's forcing you to fly it.
No-one's forcing you not to come up with ways to counter/beat it, either, of which there are many.
Sig-radius : tank : speed--know it, live it, love it, and use it to help you kill those Drakes you hate so much. I think you should shoot more of your emotional pain into this thread. Seriously. I found the soundtrack for this thread.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Aldous Borrn
Originated Saviors Bringers of Death.
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:24:00 -
[114] - Quote
I, for one, welcome our new Drake-free overlords. |
Xolve
Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League
742
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:25:00 -
[115] - Quote
I think you need to suppress your anti-social anger induced psychosis, not amplify it. Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:25:00 -
[116] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:Jack Corigan wrote:The Drake is overplayed and ruins the experience of eve. The tank is seriously overpowered and way too many people hide behind it. There is a lot of other fascinating ships out there that players ignore because a drake feels like a safter option. Why does this matter, even if true? You don't like it, no-one's forcing you to fly it. No-one's forcing you not to come up with ways to counter/beat it, either, of which there are many. Sig-radius : tank : speed--know it, live it, love it, and use it to help you kill those Drakes you hate so much. I think you should shoot more of your emotional pain into this thread. Seriously.
One day, I hope to be as 1337 as you.
Mother of All Gods be praised, that day is not today.
NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
5562
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:26:00 -
[117] - Quote
Xolve wrote:I think you need to suppress your anti-social anger induced psychosis, not amplify it. It's also lacking a fiddle.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
347
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:33:00 -
[118] - Quote
Nah, this seems more appropriate.
Real edit: Try to sing along to really feel it. |
Xolve
Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League
745
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:37:00 -
[119] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:One day, I hope to be as 1337 as you.
Mother of All Gods be praised, that day is not today.
Oh so you've fallen victim to my riveting tales of exploits and battle prowess, and all the other reasons I'm better then you, huh? Because you know- thats all that I do, stroll around the forums and profess my awesomeness and superiority to the pleeb like masses of high sec and the lowliest of carebears. Get a grip space friend.
Go back to spewing out diatribes about how amazing High Sec is, and how the Drake isn't imbalanced in comparison to other Battlecruisers; and while you're at it please make mention of why people should be permitted to farm high sec incursions for the maximum duration of their life because after all thats what the devs had envisioned all along; and finally please talk at length as to why lowsec isn't broken and is chock full of content.
I might be a whole list of things, but at least delusional isn't one of them.
Pubbie. Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Alara IonStorm
1483
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:39:00 -
[120] - Quote
That was Beautiful.
|
|
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
347
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:40:00 -
[121] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:One day, I hope to be as 1337 as you.
Mother of All Gods be praised, that day is not today.
Oh so you've fallen victim to my riveting tales of exploits and battle prowess, and all the other reasons I'm better then you, huh? Because you know- thats all that I do, stroll around the forums and profess my awesomeness and superiority to the pleeb like masses of high sec and the lowliest of carebears. Get a grip space friend. Go back to spewing out diatribes about how amazing High Sec is, and how the Drake isn't imbalanced in comparison to other Battlecruisers; and while you're at it please make mention of why people should be permitted to farm high sec incursions for the maximum duration of their life because after all thats what the devs had envisioned all along; and finally please talk at length as to why lowsec isn't broken and is chock full of content. I might be a whole list of things, but at least delusional isn't one of them. Pubbie.
*pleb. Pleeb is not a real word.
I am better than you. Ha!
Edit:
Mag's wrote: Not quite as beautiful as this spot.
Edit: damn it.
I'M BETTER THAN YOU, TOO! HA! |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
5562
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:40:00 -
[122] - Quote
Not quite as beautiful as this spot.
Edit: damn it.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Alara IonStorm
1483
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:42:00 -
[123] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Not quite as beautiful as this spot. You missed.
Your sense of Humor lacks Tracking Computers.
|
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
5562
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:43:00 -
[124] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Mag's wrote:Alara IonStorm wrote: That was Beautiful.
Not quite as beautiful as this spot. You missed. Your sense of Humor lacks Tracking Computers. I know right. I need to pick myself up some officer ones. *heads off to the market*
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Xolve
Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League
745
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:45:00 -
[125] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote: *pleb. Pleeb is not a real word.
I am better than you. Ha!
My posts are more entertaining (and I have more Spacebook likes then you (so your argument is invalid (style points for super nested parenthesis)))
Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
5562
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:47:00 -
[126] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote: *pleb. Pleeb is not a real word.
I am better than you. Ha!
My posts are more entertaining (and I have more Spacebook likes then you (so your argument is invalid (style points for super nested parenthesis))) I just thought you meant the plural of pleb tbh. Internet language is always in flux and now I'm rambling.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
86
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:51:00 -
[127] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Berendas wrote:Why should the Tengu be spared? It's just as overpowered as the Drake is. *Points at the alliance tournaments*
[Queue Caldari pilots' victim complex] In all fairness.. a Tengu plus Subsystems costs about 20-25 times what a drake does (and that is not factoring in mods..). So yeah in that price range I would expect it to perform on a much greater wavelength then a 20m isk battlecruiser.
No reason that it should outperform, by a comfortable margin, every other sub-capital ship (including all the other t3s). |
Xolve
Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League
745
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 00:58:00 -
[128] - Quote
Anya Ohaya wrote:Xolve wrote:Berendas wrote:Why should the Tengu be spared? It's just as overpowered as the Drake is. *Points at the alliance tournaments*
[Queue Caldari pilots' victim complex] In all fairness.. a Tengu plus Subsystems costs about 20-25 times what a drake does (and that is not factoring in mods..). So yeah in that price range I would expect it to perform on a much greater wavelength then a 20m isk battlecruiser. No reason that it should outperform, by a comfortable margin, every other sub-capital ship (including all the other t3s).
So something that costs 40M ISK fitted, should perform in a relatively plateau-esque capactiy as something that costs 700M (Tech 2) - 4b (100mn AB Deadspace/Officer) ISK fitted? Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 01:01:00 -
[129] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:Just because something is an example of good game-design in a game that's mostly informed by bad game-design doesn't make it overpowered. But it makes it out of step with the whole game, and not belonging with everything else. Ships are meant to have strengths and weaknesses, which define their role in fleets. The Drake and Tengu are "overall good", and thus fulfilled too many roles. If there were more ships like the Drake/Tengu, we would see more variation of ships being flown, sure, but if they're all good at everything, that results in far more blandness than everyone flying crappy ships that are crappy at different things.
So why not bring the other ships up to its' (arguable) standard, then?
Why does this seem so incredibly difficult? (Coding/game-design are not my areas of expertise to put it charitably, so any game-designers/coders/devs, please feel free to lend me your wisdom on this.)
In the name of every God that ever was/is/will be why, always, must we drag the exceptional down to a more mass-acceptable level of mediocrity, on the assumption that this is the only way to "fix" the "problem?"
And what is the problem here, exactly? I suspect that finding the answer to that with respect to EVE runs a bit deeper than just juggling a few stats around...
Anyone remember the old Mercedes-Benz adverts?
"Built up to meet a standard, not down to meet a cost?" Make the existing crappy ships good at different things (best example: Blackbird for T I and the Recon ships for T II), instead of uniformly crap-ifying everything (is that a word? It is now!) so the existing crap can look better.
That'd be like Aston Martin trying to dumb its' cars down to be more in line with those God-awful American SUVs... Probably wouldn't succeed, they'd lose a lot of loyal customers, and the resulting product would still be just another generic piece of **** 3.5t suburban douche-mobile that rides, drives, and handles like a rolling boulder. LOL, I'll stop now before the analogy gets too much more mangled
BCs and T3s are supposed to be versatile, that's their role, as far as I know. And I don't know if you can directly compare the Drake/Tengu, just because they're both shield-tanked missile boats. IMHO, the Drake's nearest equivalent is the Nighthawk. Arguably it needs fixing (the CSM Meeting Minutes touch on this specifically, IIRC)--never flown one, so wouldn't comment there--but you don't fix one thing by making another thing worse so the first thing can seem better in comparison, you fix the first thing by...well, buckling down and bloody well fixing it.
Fake-edit:
On second thought, I think I will mangle the car-analogy a bit more, because that is one of my areas of expertise: You don't improve an Aston Martin DB-12 by binning its' stock v-12 engine and swapping in a Chevy small-block--the automotive paragon of me-too, over-rated generic conformity--just because some bunch of trailer-trash with their beat-to-**** '78 Camaros don't approve of its' much higher capabilities, and is jealous of same...
Real-edit:
Grrrrrrr, sort your forum out, CCP...
NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
731
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 01:03:00 -
[130] - Quote
That dude said it all. PVE drakes will get nerfed and PVP drakes will get buffed. That's it, basically... The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die. |
|
Xolve
Intaki Armaments Important Internet Spaceship League
745
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 01:06:00 -
[131] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote: Wall-o-text
You completely lost me.
I'm drowning in words, seriously.
What is this? Inappropriate signature removed. Navigator. |
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
136
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 01:12:00 -
[132] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:For those that are cheering on CCPs nuking of the Drake from orbit (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them) Do you seriously think that ships like the Tengu will be spared?
Under this new return to the Incarna mindset in my opinion. It is not about fixing lower tier or higher class craft so they actually get used in fleet battles. It is about nuking anything that is actually useable for a solo pilot or small group. The Tengu will coming if you sit back and let this Drake nerf go on without protest.
This is a "misery loves company" approach and should be protested against. Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly.
Adapt or die,
Ask an old Nos and Damp Domi pilot about nerfs. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 01:25:00 -
[133] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Lyrrashae wrote: Wall-o-text
You completely lost me. I'm drowning in words, seriously. What is this?
Nope!
Learn to read and think about what you've read.
This is not applied quantum-physiscs, OK, it's not that hard.
NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Hainnz
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
61
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 01:26:00 -
[134] - Quote
If you are a Caldari mission runner, you are only in a Drake until you can fly something better (Raven/CNR, Tengu, or Golem).
As for PvP, did it become so much better somehow than a Hurricane that it deserves a nerf? What's next, nerfing the Caracal? :)
I don't get it personally, and I think complaints about the Drake are for some other unstated reason tbh. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
731
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 01:27:00 -
[135] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:For those that are cheering on CCPs nuking of the Drake from orbit (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them) Do you seriously think that ships like the Tengu will be spared?
Under this new return to the Incarna mindset in my opinion. It is not about fixing lower tier or higher class craft so they actually get used in fleet battles. It is about nuking anything that is actually useable for a solo pilot or small group. The Tengu will coming if you sit back and let this Drake nerf go on without protest.
This is a "misery loves company" approach and should be protested against. Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly. Adapt or die,
Ask an old Nos and Damp Domi pilot about nerfs.
Nos and Damp Domi pilots have become Neut and RR domi pilots i reckon.. The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
731
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 01:27:00 -
[136] - Quote
And i think that the world has moved on from that as well... The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1160
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 01:30:00 -
[137] - Quote
Well at least speed-tanked Cyclones are cheaper, now if I can just get it to tur........ahhhhgh!!! |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 01:40:00 -
[138] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:That dude said it all. PVE drakes will get nerfed and PVP drakes will get buffed. That's it, basically...
If its' speed gets increased, and if its' sig-radius under MWD gets reduced to something smaller than the average capital-ship, then maybe...just maybe...it will be a successful re-invention of that hull.
Oh, hey, new Big Idea(TM):
Re-spec the role boni for tier 2 BCs:
Bin the command-link fitting thingy--leave that to the tier 1s, and give them the buffing they need in general--and re-tool a race/class specific role bonus for each. (Per-level percentage, so yes, essentially a third ship-skill bonus for the class. And why not? Just because T I hulls have always had only two boni for the ship-skill is not a good enough reason to keep it like that, by the way.)
Myrmidon--Role Bonus: (X)% reduction in speed/agility penalties for armour mods and rigs per BC skill level. And make it faster.
Drake--Role Bonus: (X)% reduction in MWD signature-bloat per BC skill level. And reduce its' base sig. And make it slightly faster.
Hurricane--This is a tough one: This ship's speed and double-damage boni, plus the ease of fitting it already make it extremely powerful, although it's balanced by the fact that it's not so easy or forgiving to fly as the Drake, or anywhere near as durable. Maybe swap slots about--8/5/5 instead of 8/4/6? Feel free to chime in with your ideas here.
Harbinger--I don't fly Amarr much, but these ships need more fitting-capacity (CPU? What CPU?), from what I can see. Maybe a reduction in neut capacitor-use? Optimal-range or tracking bonus? Again, those more experienced of these ships, feel free to chime in.
NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 01:44:00 -
[139] - Quote
Hainnz wrote:If you are a Caldari mission runner, you are only in a Drake until you can fly something better (Raven/CNR, Tengu, or Golem).
As for PvP, did it become so much better somehow than a Hurricane that it deserves a nerf? What's next, nerfing the Caracal? :)
I don't get it personally, and I think complaints about the Drake are for some other unstated reason tbh.
^^This.
As for your question..."Nerf it because I can't fly/got beat by it!" basically.
NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 01:56:00 -
[140] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:Mag's wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Holy mother of all ragefits. It needed more capitals tbh. Reading comprehension, and sarcasm-detection much? Obviously you haven't.
Actually, no:
I was ignoring you, Mouth:
You're boring. NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
|
Keen Fallsword
Billionaires Club BLACK-MARK
29
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 02:01:00 -
[141] - Quote
Nick Bison wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
... This is a "misery loves company" approach and should be protested against. Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly.
I fly Gallente, all my ships come pre-nerfed or have already been nerfed to near uselessness. Welcome to the club ... Nick PS - obligatory, "you mad?"
So true ! Great :) |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 02:25:00 -
[142] - Quote
Xolve wrote:I think you need to suppress your anti-social anger induced psychosis, not amplify it.
Riiiiiiiight...
..Ok, then, going to link some nice, safe, easily-digestible Creed/Nickelback [strikeout]pabulum[/strikeout] videos now...
... NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 02:32:00 -
[143] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:One day, I hope to be as 1337 as you.
Mother of All Gods be praised, that day is not today.
Oh so you've fallen victim to my riveting tales of exploits and battle prowess, and all the other reasons I'm better then you, huh? Because you know- thats all that I do, stroll around the forums and profess my awesomeness and superiority to the pleeb like masses of high sec and the lowliest of carebears. Get a grip space friend. Go back to spewing out diatribes about how amazing High Sec is, and how the Drake isn't imbalanced in comparison to other Battlecruisers; and while you're at it please make mention of why people should be permitted to farm high sec incursions for the maximum duration of their life because after all thats what the devs had envisioned all along; and finally please talk at length as to why lowsec isn't broken and is chock full of content. I might be a whole list of things, but at least delusional isn't one of them. Pubbie.
Never said hisec is better--quite the opposite actually.
Never ran an Incursion--I have more fun ways to make ISK that involve actual risk.
I've been one of the ones to say more than most that losec is badly broken--but let's allow Alliances into FW, that'll fix everything.
The Drake is not imbalanced compared to the other 3 Tier 2 BCs.
You have a Hell of a lot more posts than I ever had, or will.
Learn to read and do basic research first.
Pathetic little Internet-cliche of an Insignifi-c-u-n-t.
E: It's plebe, by the way
E2: Whoops, no it isn't, Petrus got the right one--OK, my bad, I'll let you have that one, Doc. But you're still not getting any Spacebook likes from me regardless. Standards, din'tchaknow, standards!
And mucho typing-fail, fixed. NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Aldous Borrn
Originated Saviors Bringers of Death.
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 02:49:00 -
[144] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:[quote=Petrus Blackshell] So why not bring the other ships up to its' (arguable) standard, then?
Why does this seem so incredibly difficult? (Coding/game-design are not my areas of expertise to put it charitably, so any game-designers/coders/devs, please feel free to lend me your wisdom on this.)
At a guess, it would be more efficient to bring one lonely ship, determined to be over-powered (by whatever means desired - mathematical analysis, popular opinion, reading chicken entrails - whatever) to the benchmark range of comparable ships, rather than bringing a large number of ships up to the range of a statistical outlier. Both from a coding and from a game-disruption standpoint.
Note that I'm not passing judgement on the Drake; simply that if a single ship is determined to be OP, then it makes sense to bring it in line, rather than bringing all its peers in line with it.
You will notice that nerfing isn't all they know how to do. Assault Ships got some love in the patch today. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
731
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 02:52:00 -
[145] - Quote
Why so many people have so much to say about so little that they will never use The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die. |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
503
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 08:45:00 -
[146] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Ciar Meara wrote:Your playing EVE, everything gets nerfed in EVE eventually...
Especially now that TomB has rejoined the Reykjavik office, I bet he is denerfing his nerfbat as we speak... They get nerfed when fools don't speak up about it and go on pretending it won't happen. I am protesting and asking for it not to happen.
Request...denied.
Although the nerf should be thought out so that it actually is nerfed and not upgraded. Fiddling with its passive or offensive capabilities or both seems a good idea but they need to consider its uses on several fronts.
Oh and hurrah for the assault ships! -glee- - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
5563
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 09:33:00 -
[147] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:Mag's wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:
Reading comprehension, and sarcasm-detection much?
Obviously you haven't. Actually, no: I was ignoring you, Mouth: You're boring. So you ignore people, by replying to their posts? Good stuff.
As you seemed to have difficulty with a comeback, I guess I should respond with something: Nice burn.
Hope that helps.
Amidoinitrite?
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Rellik B00n
Lethal Death Squad
123
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 09:36:00 -
[148] - Quote
i dont care i can fly anything, go crazy mr.nerfman my war dec solution |
Af'ilia
The Directorate
2
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 12:23:00 -
[149] - Quote
Carniflex wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:Otherwise it will continue until it reaches your favorite craft to fly. I am a bitter vet. I can fly it all. Something will be FOTM.
Unless you have another toon.... 09 != vet.
Also, op is dumb. Drake will be better, not worse... why are people complaining?
Wait... your a carebear who afk's in lvl 4's in a drake because your too afraid to fit a raven arent you...?
And on that, this is an approach for CCP to keep 3 month old pilots from tanking the **** out of anything with a ship class that never was supposed to be the tankiest mofo in existence. * exaggeration*
Althought the 25% bonus loss is a harsh one, i love the buff its getting... I might actually try using one now...
|
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
309
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 14:27:00 -
[150] - Quote
uumm why not remove all ships except rookie ships and shuttele, now all are equal and there can be no discussion anymore what ships need a buff and what ships need a nerf
Bet they will still complain about how ugly snd unsymetric they look like
I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
|
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
348
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 14:44:00 -
[151] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:uumm why not remove all ships except rookie ships and shuttele, now all are equal and there can be no discussion anymore what ships need a buff and what ships need a nerf
Bet they will still complain about how ugly snd unsymetric they look like
Actually the Velator can field 2 drones, while the others can only field 1. It is OP.
NERF VELATOR! |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
178
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 14:48:00 -
[152] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:pussnheels wrote:uumm why not remove all ships except rookie ships and shuttele, now all are equal and there can be no discussion anymore what ships need a buff and what ships need a nerf
Bet they will still complain about how ugly snd unsymetric they look like
Actually the Velator can field 2 drones, while the others can only field 1. It is OP. NERF VELATOR!
wtf you have drones?? Buff Imparior!!
|
Valei Khurelem
225
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 14:49:00 -
[153] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:uumm why not remove all ships except rookie ships and shuttele, now all are equal and there can be no discussion anymore what ships need a buff and what ships need a nerf
Bet they will still complain about how ugly snd unsymetric they look like
Not only that, they'll complain about how they can't win easily anymore and how they miss all their shiny ships and ph4t faction loot.
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
348
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 16:45:00 -
[154] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:pussnheels wrote:uumm why not remove all ships except rookie ships and shuttele, now all are equal and there can be no discussion anymore what ships need a buff and what ships need a nerf
Bet they will still complain about how ugly snd unsymetric they look like
Actually the Velator can field 2 drones, while the others can only field 1. It is OP. NERF VELATOR! wtf you have drones?? Buff Imparior!! Impairor has 1 drone just like Reaper and Ibis, IIRC. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
261
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 17:03:00 -
[155] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:expensive BC hull
|
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
47
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 17:07:00 -
[156] - Quote
"For those that are cheering on CCPs nuking of the Drake from orbit (Under greenlight from the CSM instead of telling us about it before them) Do you seriously think that ships like the Tengu will be spared?"
Um... don't give a sh*t?! |
Trainwreck McGee
Ghost Ship Inc.
213
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 17:28:00 -
[157] - Quote
nerf drake into oblivion
that is all CCP Trainwreck - Weekend Custodial Engineer / CCP Necrogoats foot stool |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 19:47:00 -
[158] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:pussnheels wrote:uumm why not remove all ships except rookie ships and shuttele, now all are equal and there can be no discussion anymore what ships need a buff and what ships need a nerf
Bet they will still complain about how ugly snd unsymetric they look like
Actually the Velator can field 2 drones, while the others can only field 1. It is OP. NERF VELATOR! wtf you have drones?? Buff Imparior!!
Buff Reaper!
NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
164
|
Posted - 2012.01.25 20:18:00 -
[159] - Quote
Aldous Borrn wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:[
At a guess, it would be more efficient to bring one lonely ship, determined to be over-powered (by whatever means desired - mathematical analysis, popular opinion, reading chicken entrails - whatever) to the benchmark range of comparable ships, rather than bringing a large number of ships up to the range of a statistical outlier. Both from a coding and from a game-disruption standpoint.
Note that I'm not passing judgement on the Drake; simply that if a single ship is determined to be OP, then it makes sense to bring it in line, rather than bringing all its peers in line with it.
You will notice that nerfing isn't all they know how to do. Assault Ships got some love in the patch today. Aldous Borrn wrote:[quote=Lyrrashae][quote=Petrus Blackshell] So why not bring the other ships up to its' (arguable) standard, then?
Why does this seem so incredibly difficult? (Coding/game-design are not my areas of expertise to put it charitably, so any game-designers/coders/devs, please feel free to lend me your wisdom on this.)
At a guess, it would be more efficient to bring one lonely ship, determined to be over-powered (by whatever means desired - mathematical analysis, popular opinion, reading chicken entrails - whatever) to the benchmark range of comparable ships, rather than bringing a large number of ships up to the range of a statistical outlier. Both from a coding and from a game-disruption standpoint. Note that I'm not passing judgement on the Drake; simply that if a single ship is determined to be OP, then it makes sense to bring it in line, rather than bringing all its peers in line with it. You will notice that nerfing isn't all they know how to do. Assault Ships got some love in the patch today.
Granted, it's certainly easier.
But I've said it before: Why drag the exceptional down to a more mass-acceptable level of mediocrity when a lot of that which is mediocre can be--and arguably needs to be in a lot of cases, example, many of the cruisers and some of the command ships--brought up? And should be. As regards to cruisers, each race has at least 2 that are completely useless. Where is all the bleating horde screaming for those to be buffed, I wonder?
But the Tier2 BCs are not overpowered--and make no mistake, this is not just about the Drake, this is about all of them (The next victim is the Hurricane, and possibly the 'Binger soon. Myrmi might avoid it--for now--because it needs a slight buff, IMHO). Their abilities make them incredibly versatile, and their cost + low initial skill requirements mean that they'll grow with pilots for a long time, unlike most other ships. So when those pilots lose theirs in PvP, they're much more likely to replace them with...the same ship.
Fundamental question--what makes these ships overpowered? Aside from a bunch of whining babies who clearly can't fly/fit them, nothing, that I can see.
If something that is clearly massively overpowered, with no real counter except more of the same--IE Supercraps--then yes, it needs a nerf, as this is game-breaking. But the Tier 2 BCs have plenty of counters to choose from (3-4 Thorax' will tear a Drake, or any other Tier 2 BC to shreds--just sayin' ).
No...this is not a "legit" nerf (If it happens, I might add--we still don't know it will): This is CCP listening to whiners screaming for EVE to be made easier just for them, because they refuse to accept that some things are exceptional, and demand a level of easy mediocrity that they can handle, and are not afraid of. This is what happens when risk-aversion infects a population on such a deep level as it has the EVE player-base.
**** that, and **** them, that's all I have to say about that.
And yes, I do love what they've--******* FINALLY!!--done with my beloved Assault Frigates.
But just you watch:
Within 90 days at most, these same bleating mediocrats are going to be screaming for, I am certain, nerfs to the Jaguar, Wolf, possibly the Ishkur, and almost certainly the Enyo. ("What?? A blaster-boat with a web that helped him murder me even faster???!! This is wrong--I demand nerf-bat, CCP!")
And the cycle of enforced bland, easily-palatable, everything's-basically-the-same-just-different-skins, safe-for-the-weak-little-whine-bears mediocrity continues...
E: Nerfing may not be all they know how to do, but it does seem their default-reaction, and they do seem to enjoy it.
NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
SnowxCrash
Concorded Saints Aerodyne Collective
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 21:37:00 -
[160] - Quote
Wait, so they're taking away the resist bonus, and giving a velocity bonus, and nerfing the range of missles on it? Why? It doesn't make any sense to me...What's fun about the Drake is that it can tank so well, without that I don't see the point in flying it anymore. It was cheap, could tank hard, do decent dps at a nice range. The perfect ship for new players like myself. Now it's going to be some lame redux of a caracal...How's that interesting? Better yet, why was this necessary? I just got popped and pod'd in my Drake, inside a WH that put my regen at 380hps, and you're trying to tell me it's tanking was OP in pvp?
Ship's like that Drake shouldn't get nerfed around the premise that the flyer would have 20m+sp. There's few enough reasons to encourage new players to stay in Eve, and the Drake has been that for me. |
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
373
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 21:39:00 -
[161] - Quote
SnowxCrash wrote:Wait, so they're taking away the resist bonus, and giving a velocity bonus, and nerfing the range of missles on it? Why? It doesn't make any sense to me...What's fun about the Drake is that it can tank so well, without that I don't see the point in flying it anymore. It was cheap, could tank hard, do decent dps at a nice range. The perfect ship for new players like myself. Now it's going to be some lame redux of a caracal...How's that interesting? Better yet, why was this necessary? I just got popped and pod'd in my Drake, inside a WH that put my regen at 380hps, and you're trying to tell me it's tanking was OP in pvp?
Ship's like that Drake shouldn't get nerfed around the premise that the flyer would have 20m+sp. There's few enough reasons to encourage new players to stay in Eve, and the Drake has been that for me.
WHY WHY WHY WON'T YOU LET THIS THREAD DIE. |
SnowxCrash
Concorded Saints Aerodyne Collective
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 23:05:00 -
[162] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
WHY WHY WHY WON'T YOU LET THIS THREAD DIE.
Because I'm a new pilot who can barely replace his Drake and imps after getting podd'd? To me the idea of a BC being a speedboat just seems stupid. I don't understand why this nerf seems necessary. If Drakes zergs really are a big problem why don't people get in manticores and drop several hundred thousand dmg into it? Maybe I'm too much of a noob to realize why that's a stupid thing to do. idk. All I really know is that I got popped with 70%+ resists with 380hps and couldn't do **** about it and it sounds to me that if a zerg of Drakes is impossible for someone to kill then they're bad at this game. I've met my fair share of Bad Kids in other game forums and the one thing they have in common is that they're always calling for nerfs and applauding when they happen with little to no consideration about how it affects other aspects of the game. Aspects like myself, a new player. Before the Drake ships were just meh meh and more meh with all different flavors of bland. Putting in rigs which make cruisers fun was too expensive, I can't fly any t2, before the Drake no ship did anything remarkable which could lead to any sort of elation. If it wasn't for the Drake I probably would've gotten bored with Eve and left again. No doubt someone's going to tell me to go ahead and quit no one wants you here yadada to which all I have to say is there's a reason Eve has such a low sub retention, and nerfing ships so that you can all fly happy in Canes will only add to the problem. |
DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
871
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 23:22:00 -
[163] - Quote
SnowxCrash wrote: Because I'm a new pilot who can barely replace his Drake and imps after getting podd'd? To me the idea of a BC being a speedboat just seems stupid. I don't understand why this nerf seems necessary. If Drakes zergs really are a big problem why don't people get in manticores and drop several hundred thousand dmg into it? Maybe I'm too much of a noob to realize why that's a stupid thing to do. idk. All I really know is that I got popped with 70%+ resists with 380hps and couldn't do **** about it and it sounds to me that if a zerg of Drakes is impossible for someone to kill then they're bad at this game. I've met my fair share of Bad Kids in other game forums and the one thing they have in common is that they're always calling for nerfs and applauding when they happen with little to no consideration about how it affects other aspects of the game. Aspects like myself, a new player. Before the Drake ships were just meh meh and more meh with all different flavors of bland. Putting in rigs which make cruisers fun was too expensive, I can't fly any t2, before the Drake no ship did anything remarkable which could lead to any sort of elation. If it wasn't for the Drake I probably would've gotten bored with Eve and left again. No doubt someone's going to tell me to go ahead and quit no one wants you here yadada to which all I have to say is there's a reason Eve has such a low sub retention, and nerfing ships so that you can all fly happy in Canes will only add to the problem.
It's not really a Drake nerf. Just a reimagining. Anyway, it should be better for missions now, because of the RoF bonus. A fit with 3 hardeners, 2 LSE, 2 shield relays and purger rigs will be able to get about 480hp/s against Guristas.
This is very, very good for the PVP HAM Drake, as well. They'll be able to kite at the very edge of warp disruptor range, while still doing max damage with the short-range missile variety.
The Drake will also be able to get about 650dps with Rage HAMs, and ~25km missile range. A nanocane with neuts gets about 325dps at that range, and it's limited to explosive damage instead of any type it wants when kiting. The HAM Drake will be able to get about a 75k ehp tank. Compare that the the nanocane, which has about a 58k ehp tank.
The Drake could do too many things too well. Soon, it will be doing some things better, but other things worse. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
259
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 23:25:00 -
[164] - Quote
yeah man, comparing how drake fleets mash up against harbi and myrm flee-
oh wait there's no such thing as harbi or myrm fleets because the drake is that much better. |
SnowxCrash
Concorded Saints Aerodyne Collective
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.26 23:58:00 -
[165] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote: It's not really a Drake nerf. Just a reimagining. Anyway, it should be better for missions now, because of the RoF bonus. A fit with 3 hardeners, 2 LSE, 2 shield relays and purger rigs will be able to get about 480hp/s against Guristas.
This is very, very good for the PVP HAM Drake, as well. They'll be able to kite at the very edge of warp disruptor range, while still doing max damage with the short-range missile variety.
The Drake will also be able to get about 650dps with Rage HAMs, and ~25km missile range. A nanocane with neuts gets about 325dps at that range, and it's limited to explosive damage instead of any type it wants when kiting. The HAM Drake will be able to get about a 75k ehp tank. Compare that the the nanocane, which has about a 58k ehp tank.
The Drake could do too many things too well. Soon, it will be doing some things better, but other things worse.
When I said 380hps I wasn't using EFT talking about some calculated value. It was a flat 380hps IG due to the WH bonus to shields. In any event what you've said does nothing to address the concerns of a new player. To me this balance discussion with, CSM(some group of players?), sounds to me like it's full of players who've been playing for years and probably have SP caps on their corp and are so far removed from what it's like to be a new player it never crosses their mind when discussing changes like this. You guys keep talking about ehp left and right like that's a primary concern in pve, you discuss pvp fits in order to talk about how it's not really a nerf, all the while never touching on how this change will make the Drake a dull and unremarkable ship for new players still learning mechanics through pve. When's the last time you guys flew a Drake even? Seems to me most of your current information on performance comes from EFT, rather than experience, or even observation of new players flying them. You all seem like you're in a citadel of high SP pushing for changes to the game that only makes the barrier of entry ever greater to fulfill.
From the standpoint of a new player, how CCPs been doing things seems, weird. First there's a push to get people to play with a 60day deal. Then there's a lot of changes being done which make it seem like CCP is always there to change the game, to balance and add content, and then the changes entail renaming items and nerfing the ship many who joined the 60d deal enjoy flying or are looking forward to fly. Meanwhile you all cheer them on about how great the change will be. Nerfing one of the few t1 ships that can be really fun to fly is as ridiculous an idea to me as a BC that's a speedboat.
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
374
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 00:15:00 -
[166] - Quote
SnowxCrash wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:
WHY WHY WHY WON'T YOU LET THIS THREAD DIE.
Because I'm a new pilot who can barely replace his Drake and imps after getting podd'd? To me the idea of a BC being a speedboat just seems stupid. I don't understand why this nerf seems necessary. If Drakes zergs really are a big problem why don't people get in manticores and drop several hundred thousand dmg into it? Maybe I'm too much of a noob to realize why that's a stupid thing to do. idk. All I really know is that I got popped with 70%+ resists with 380hps and couldn't do **** about it and it sounds to me that if a zerg of Drakes is impossible for someone to kill then they're bad at this game. I've met my fair share of Bad Kids in other game forums and the one thing they have in common is that they're always calling for nerfs and applauding when they happen with little to no consideration about how it affects other aspects of the game. Aspects like myself, a new player. Before the Drake ships were just meh meh and more meh with all different flavors of bland. Putting in rigs which make cruisers fun was too expensive, I can't fly any t2, before the Drake no ship did anything remarkable which could lead to any sort of elation. If it wasn't for the Drake I probably would've gotten bored with Eve and left again. No doubt someone's going to tell me to go ahead and quit no one wants you here yadada to which all I have to say is there's a reason Eve has such a low sub retention, and nerfing ships so that you can all fly happy in Canes will only add to the problem.
Bro.
I was going to write a whole long response explaining to you why the Drake not being bad at anything in particular is causing overuse and leading to stale gameplay, but instead I'm going to tell you to just read this thread. It has the reasons for the nerf explained more than once.
Also, "a zerg of ____" is not a phrase. You're looking for "blob", "swarm", "gang", or "fleet". "Zerg" is an alien race from Starcraft II, not a collective noun meaning "a lot". |
SnowxCrash
Concorded Saints Aerodyne Collective
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 00:24:00 -
[167] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Bro.
I was going to write a whole long response explaining to you why the Drake not being bad at anything in particular is causing overuse and leading to stale gameplay, but instead I'm going to tell you to just read this thread. It has the reasons for the nerf explained more than once.
Also, "a zerg of ____" is not a phrase. You're looking for "blob", "swarm", "gang", or "fleet". "Zerg" is an alien race from Starcraft II, not a collective noun meaning "a lot".
I did read the thread, and like I said those explanations center wholly around Drake zergs in PvP without addressing my concerns as a new player and even when talking about teh pvp zergs don't really explain why they're really a nuisance. In any event, you should play more games brah. Maybe you'd have caught on that zerg is a correct term to describe a host of enemies swarming you, idk how you couldn't already know this...Oh ****, I'm a bridge..this explains things... |
DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
874
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 02:28:00 -
[168] - Quote
SnowxCrash wrote: When I said 380hps I wasn't using EFT talking about some calculated value. It was a flat 380hps IG due to the WH bonus to shields. In any event what you've said does nothing to address the concerns of a new player. To me this balance discussion with, CSM(some group of players?), sounds to me like it's full of players who've been playing for years and probably have SP caps on their corp and are so far removed from what it's like to be a new player it never crosses their mind when discussing changes like this. You guys keep talking about ehp left and right like that's a primary concern in pve, you discuss pvp fits in order to talk about how it's not really a nerf, all the while never touching on how this change will make the Drake a dull and unremarkable ship for new players still learning mechanics through pve. When's the last time you guys flew a Drake even? Seems to me most of your current information on performance comes from EFT, rather than experience, or even observation of new players flying them. You all seem like you're in a citadel of high SP pushing for changes to the game that only makes the barrier of entry ever greater to fulfill.
I'm not elitist, so don't you go thinking I am I don't really know how to tackle your post because it's a really big wall, so I'll just make some points: -Your Drake's flat 380hp/s won't change. It's losing a resist bonus, not shield amount/regen speed --Flat hp/s never matters, it's the total ehp/s which is what everyone cares about -The CSM are an elected group of players to represent the playerbase for CCP. Yes, they're all bittervets and many don't care about newer players -I'm not talking about EHP for PVE. EHP is barely ever a consideration for PVE. -It's true that this is extremely excellent for the PVP HAM Drake. However, this can stretch into PVE, too. Heavy missiles will have ludicrous range, damage types will be fully selectable, and heavy assault missiles may be a very, very viable choice to blitz through the easier missions -I don't fly Drakes; I fly Maelstroms, T1 cruisers, Myrmidons and Maelstroms. Not exactly the most elite of bittervet ships. -Performance information DOES come from EFT/pyfa!
Anyway, I assume you think this raises the barrier for entry because the ship will be less forgiving, now? Perhaps. However, this new Drake will obliterate its way through level 3s, while level 4s are best left to any battleship for newer players. When it comes to wormhole fleets, the Rokh will be the new, forgiving ship.
The Drake will still be quite forgiving for newer players. It's just that instead of frantically training up the missile range skills, new players will be training the shield support skills (Not including the compensation skills), instead. All while dealing higher damage against targets. Particularly useful if the player doesn't read the ship bonus, and wouldn't have used kinetic missiles with the Drake (I still remember my laser/autocannon/railgun Catalyst) |
Ioci
Space Mermaids
61
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 02:55:00 -
[169] - Quote
PvE Drake will be fine. Recharge makes the PvE drake work. PvP Drake relies on a different buffering but it will still do its job, then die like every other ship that can't just cyno out.
No, nerfs won't stop with Drake and cut the politicals, it's a nerf plain and simple. It isn't the first it won't be the last and in the end it's just more SP you can use somewhere later on. Drake skills work for Golem too. As well as most minmatar and serious, train medium Artillery Spec 4. The quicker everyone is flying Huginn the quicker they will get thier turn at the chopping block. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
171
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 03:04:00 -
[170] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:SnowxCrash wrote:Wait, so they're taking away the resist bonus, and giving a velocity bonus, and nerfing the range of missles on it? Why? It doesn't make any sense to me...What's fun about the Drake is that it can tank so well, without that I don't see the point in flying it anymore. It was cheap, could tank hard, do decent dps at a nice range. The perfect ship for new players like myself. Now it's going to be some lame redux of a caracal...How's that interesting? Better yet, why was this necessary? I just got popped and pod'd in my Drake, inside a WH that put my regen at 380hps, and you're trying to tell me it's tanking was OP in pvp?
Ship's like that Drake shouldn't get nerfed around the premise that the flyer would have 20m+sp. There's few enough reasons to encourage new players to stay in Eve, and the Drake has been that for me. WHY WHY WHY WON'T YOU LET THIS THREAD DIE.
He raises a fair point, at least for/from his perspective.
We were all beginners once.
[/Necro] NO to Drake and Tier 2 Battlecruiser nerfs. NO to Alliances in Faction Warfare NO to "wormhole mass-stabilisers." **** NO to the cancers that are sov-nullsec Alliances metastasising throughout EVE! |
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Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
379
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 03:16:00 -
[171] - Quote
as long as they don't mess with the slots i should be ok... |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
378
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 06:23:00 -
[172] - Quote
Ioci wrote:PvE Drake will be fine. Recharge makes the PvE drake work. PvP Drake relies on a different buffering but it will still do its job, then die like every other ship that can't just cyno out.
No, nerfs won't stop with Drake and cut the politicals, it's a nerf plain and simple. It isn't the first it won't be the last and in the end it's just more SP you can use somewhere later on. Drake skills work for Golem too. As well as most minmatar and serious, train medium Artillery Spec 4. The quicker everyone is flying Huginn the quicker they will get thier turn at the chopping block.
I would absolutely love for a ship with weaknesses like the Huginn to be FOTM. But it won't be, because it has weaknesses. |
Msgerbs
Ironclad Forge STORM.
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 06:46:00 -
[173] - Quote
Can somebody please show me where the drake was changed? I don't see it anywhere... |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
378
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 07:00:00 -
[174] - Quote
Msgerbs wrote:Can somebody please show me where the drake was changed? I don't see it anywhere... It hasn't yet, all these whine threads are regarding a change that CCP and CSM agreed they want to implement, outlined in the CSM December Summit. It's part of a larger move to balance BCs (buffing up tier 1s, and making all BCs slower in general). |
Msgerbs
Ironclad Forge STORM.
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 07:02:00 -
[175] - Quote
Does that mean Gallente BCs get buffed and the Hurricane gets nerfed? Surely it can't be true. |
Tithi
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 07:31:00 -
[176] - Quote
I don't care if they nerf it or not, as long as I can stop seeing them everywhere, doing everything, all the time.
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
300
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 07:34:00 -
[177] - Quote
I don't know why this debate rages... the drake is fine a hurricane is the terror of drakes and will often rock them. The drake is a fine versatile ship but it's not overpowered. All GëíGêçGëí Ships | GëíGêçGëí - sñÜpüÅpü«sÑçsªÖpü¬péópéñpâåpâá | <-- Links to ShowInfo in-game
FX7 - No Tax... No Rules... No Problem |
Elistea
G U N G N I R Y G G D R A S I L
50
|
Posted - 2012.01.27 08:07:00 -
[178] - Quote
"They won't stop at nerfing the Drake... "
g00d!
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