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Mictain Orgasie
Ancient Ghosts
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Posted - 2007.09.09 09:47:00 -
[1]
slave give huge boost to caps, I dont see why on earth should crystal affect shiledboosters....
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Terianna Eri
Amarr STK Scientific M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.09.09 09:56:00 -
[2]
slaves give a huge boost to capitals' hit points. with full slaves a capital will have a little more than 50% more armor. this does not increase the ship's tanking ability, just the duration that it can run its existing tank.
crystals give a huge boost to shield boost amount. with full crystals i believe you get about a 50% increase in boost amount. this would increase the capital's ability to tank damage by 50%, which means you have to throw more damage at it to bring it down.
shield tanks are already stronger than armor tanks in terms of hp/sec. why would you give them a horribly gigantic boost?
crystals don't work on capital boosters for the same reason that auxiliary nano pump rigs and nanobot accelerator rigs don't work on capital armor reps. __________________________________
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Mictain Orgasie
Ancient Ghosts
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Posted - 2007.09.09 09:59:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Terianna Eri slaves give a huge boost to capitals' hit points. with full slaves a capital will have a little more than 50% more armor. this does not increase the ship's tanking ability, just the duration that it can run its existing tank.
crystals give a huge boost to shield boost amount. with full crystals i believe you get about a 50% increase in boost amount. this would increase the capital's ability to tank damage by 50%, which means you have to throw more damage at it to bring it down.
shield tanks are already stronger than armor tanks in terms of hp/sec. why would you give them a horribly gigantic boost?
crystals don't work on capital boosters for the same reason that auxiliary nano pump rigs and nanobot accelerator rigs don't work on capital armor reps.
yea, extra 50% hardned armor is nothing, yea, shiledtank generate more hp/sec, but it use more cap/sec then armor tank;)
remove slave effect or add crystal effect
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Asestorian
Minmatar Domination.
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Posted - 2007.09.09 10:12:00 -
[4]
CCP looked at this before, and decided that with the numbers it was an extremely bad idea to let Crystals affect capital modules, but was ok to let slaves affect capitals.
This is indeed for the exact same reason that the armour rep amount rigs don't affect armour repairers. It would make them too strong. Also, you need to consider that not everything has to be the same, or have an equivalent.
If you think that it should be changed, you will need to work out the maths, present your argument, and start a proper discussion. Otherwise CCP are going to ignore you and just assume you're whining about sod all.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr STK Scientific M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.09.09 10:14:00 -
[5]
Yes, 50% hardened armor isn't that much. If you are tanking armor it will extend your lifetime by slightly less than 50%.
if extra armor buffer is so awesome on capitals, even as good as better sustained tanking, why don't I see more caps with 3x trimark pumps?
Here, let's take two theoretical ships.
Ship A has 700000 effective hit points with slaves. It tanks 5000 dps.
Ship B has 600000 effective hit points. The pilot has crystals. It tanks 7500 dps.
Ship A will die to a group with 5001 or more combined dps. If faced with 10000 dps, it will take 140 seconds to die. Ship B will die to a group with 7501 or more combined dps. If faced with 10000 dps, it will take 240 seconds to die.
If faced with 50000 dps, ship A will take 15 seconds to die. If faced with 50000 dps, ship B will take 14.11 seconds to die.
So, the extra hp buffer only really helps when taking damage far, far above what you could possibly tank, and even then won't add that much life. When taking less overwhelming damage, the extra tank will make you live much longer than the extra buffer will.
Oh, and there's the fact that you need, say, 50% more dps to take down the crystal pilot than you do to take down the slave pilot.
Crystals don't apply to capital boosters because it would be overpowered. __________________________________
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Ararius
EP0CH Black Sun Cartel
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Posted - 2007.09.09 10:15:00 -
[6]
It would make The Minmatar Carrier OP
Now we wouldnt want that would we?
And aside from the obvious increasing the TANKED damage then total HP. I'd say it would be fair. I mean Trimarks work on Caps, but so do the Extenders and Purgers (the shield rigs)
It's all equal!
(or they could make crystals effect total shield hp.... but thats just lame)
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Asestorian
Minmatar Domination.
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Posted - 2007.09.09 10:16:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ararius (or they could make crystals effect total shield hp.... but thats just lame)
Could you imagine the passive tank on a Drake with that
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Terianna Eri
Amarr STK Scientific M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.09.09 10:25:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Asestorian
Originally by: Ararius (or they could make crystals effect total shield hp.... but thats just lame)
Could you imagine the passive tank on a Drake with that
Why yes, and it would have 55%-ish more shields and DPS tanked than the average drake :D
so... what, 1800-dps tank or something? __________________________________
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MOS DEF
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.09.09 10:26:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Asestorian
Originally by: Ararius (or they could make crystals effect total shield hp.... but thats just lame)
Could you imagine the passive tank on a Drake with that
Exactly. Doesn't work because it affects shield regen.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr STK Scientific M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.09.09 10:37:00 -
[10]
Originally by: MOS DEF
Originally by: Asestorian
Originally by: Ararius (or they could make crystals effect total shield hp.... but thats just lame)
Could you imagine the passive tank on a Drake with that
Exactly. Doesn't work because it affects shield regen.
seems like it would work just fine... making crystals affect total shield hp (increase by 58%) would improve passive tanks for the same reason that shield extenders do... __________________________________
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Ral Ulgur
InQuest Ascension R i s e
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Posted - 2007.09.09 10:39:00 -
[11]
nerf crystals (and snakes while we are at it) so that full sets give 20%... still very powerful and it wouldn't ruin balace if they affected capitals too
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MOS DEF
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.09.09 10:41:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: MOS DEF
Originally by: Asestorian
Originally by: Ararius (or they could make crystals effect total shield hp.... but thats just lame)
Could you imagine the passive tank on a Drake with that
Exactly. Doesn't work because it affects shield regen.
seems like it would work just fine... making crystals affect total shield hp (increase by 58%) would improve passive tanks for the same reason that shield extenders do...
Prepare for the anger of a gazillion carebears with thousands of arguments why the drake is not overpowered now!
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Asestorian
Minmatar Domination.
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Posted - 2007.09.09 10:45:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: MOS DEF
Originally by: Asestorian
Originally by: Ararius (or they could make crystals effect total shield hp.... but thats just lame)
Could you imagine the passive tank on a Drake with that
Exactly. Doesn't work because it affects shield regen.
seems like it would work just fine... making crystals affect total shield hp (increase by 58%) would improve passive tanks for the same reason that shield extenders do...
Yeah but the problem is, you start getting to the point where Drakes are almost unkillable because they have shield extenders, shield rechargers, shield rigs and HG crystals.
As it is, it's pretty balanced. At least in my opinion.
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Jinmie
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Posted - 2007.09.09 11:02:00 -
[14]
Because every average capital pilot flies into combat with a 1bil+ set of Slaves in his head...
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iiOs
The Cry of Mankind
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Posted - 2007.09.09 11:11:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Terianna Eri Yes, 50% hardened armor isn't that much. If you are tanking armor it will extend your lifetime by slightly less than 50%.
if extra armor buffer is so awesome on capitals, even as good as better sustained tanking, why don't I see more caps with 3x trimark pumps?
Here, let's take two theoretical ships.
Ship A has 700000 effective hit points with slaves. It tanks 5000 dps.
Ship B has 600000 effective hit points. The pilot has crystals. It tanks 7500 dps.
Ship A will die to a group with 5001 or more combined dps. If faced with 10000 dps, it will take 140 seconds to die. Ship B will die to a group with 7501 or more combined dps. If faced with 10000 dps, it will take 240 seconds to die.
If faced with 50000 dps, ship A will take 15 seconds to die. If faced with 50000 dps, ship B will take 14.11 seconds to die.
So, the extra hp buffer only really helps when taking damage far, far above what you could possibly tank, and even then won't add that much life. When taking less overwhelming damage, the extra tank will make you live much longer than the extra buffer will.
Oh, and there's the fact that you need, say, 50% more dps to take down the crystal pilot than you do to take down the slave pilot.
Crystals don't apply to capital boosters because it would be overpowered.
thats some ****** up math, why do your slave setup only have 17% more hp? try 50 then ones you have that, trow some trimarks
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iiOs
The Cry of Mankind
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Posted - 2007.09.09 11:12:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ral Ulgur nerf crystals (and snakes while we are at it) so that full sets give 20%... still very powerful and it wouldn't ruin balace if they affected capitals too
no thx
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iiOs
The Cry of Mankind
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Posted - 2007.09.09 11:14:00 -
[17]
tbh, i dont think crystal should affect caps, but slave shoudlnt either
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Ogul
Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.09 11:18:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
shield tanks are already stronger than armor tanks in terms of hp/sec. why would you give them a horribly gigantic boost?
Maybe I am missing something here, but one capital shield booster gives you 640 shield/second (220.8 cap/second at capital shield op 4) whereas two capital armor repairers give you 640 armor/second (160 cap/second, disregarding skill) or 800 armor/second (200 cap/second, capital repair systems at level 4).
I would say armor tanks already tank more for less cap.
--- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec. |
Asestorian
Minmatar Domination.
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Posted - 2007.09.09 11:36:00 -
[19]
Two armour repairers is supposed to be balanced against a shield booster and a shield amp. Do amps work on capitals?
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